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Matt128
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 02:51:23
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just looking for a elvish translator?
just curious to this as well, there two different types of Espruar I know this but are they used by drow or do drow use Roushoum (Old Imaskri)or am I wrong both ways? Not sure where I read that but I know one form of Espruar is used by moon elves or both forms? I may have my information wrong correct me if so.
But I know Drow speak a different language then elvish because I played on a nwn underdark drow/surface rp server that had under common and a elvish translator and other language translators built into the server and if you wanted to use drow you had to manually type it out your self instead of using a code before ex: Oloth jal d'dos!
http://www.eilistraee.com/chosen/language.php I thought this was pretty cool just looking for a utility like this or something like it.
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Edited by - Matt128 on 05 Nov 2010 02:52:31
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 03:53:27
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There's a really good one on the net- www.graycompany.com (?), I believe. It is the most comprehensive and accurate one I've found- and has not only a dictionary, but a phrase book in it as well. It should be one of the first options to come up if you google "elvish language translator".
Drow use a heavily altered form of Espruar (to the point that it is pretty much its own language, with little left in common with elvish). To the best of my knowledge, drow do not use Roushoum at all. Their version of the elvish language pre-dates it. The elvish translator I mentioned is much like the one on Chosen (I'm a frequent poster on Chosen, BTW!) but is pretty much a site unto itself, rather than just a site-app. Hope this helps! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Matt128
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 04:10:45
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hmm I typed elvish language translator and these are the links I get although I have searched for graycompany and could not come up with anything but I did find this http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Elven_dictionary which I guess covers some words and phrases I think.
here is the links that I found when I typed elvish language translator on google:
www.fantasyrole.org
lotr-freaks.tripod.com/id4.html
rayvenwing.netfirms.com/eng2elf.htm
www.yourdictionary.com ›
www.arwen-undomiel.com/elvish/eng_to_elv.html
after doing some elf research and looking at the races in icewindale im also curious if wild elfs and wood elfs are the same thing?
im not sure if things have changed since you last typed them unless you googled recently. |
Edited by - Matt128 on 05 Nov 2010 04:16:09 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 04:48:04
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There is a 'High' and 'low' form of both Drow and Elven.
Although in 3e I believe they did away with the separate language of Drow, more realistically both were the same language some 25,000+ years ago so they wouldn't really have a whole lot in common. However, due to the long lifespans of Elves, they wouldn't get the same amount of language variance as humans get, so the structures would be similar and they may even still sound similar.
'High Elven' is called Seldruin, and because it is still primarily intact in its original form, it is fairly close to high (Old) Drow, which isn't really spoken much anymore, except for things like temple services. Both are mostly just used used in rituals now (both magical and clerical), although the aristocracy can speak it (and spellcasters can write in it - the written form is called Hamarfae).
A third subgroup has sprung-up for the eastern Lythari. Author Mark Sehestedt, for whatever reason, felt he should ignore the Elven Language in-place in the Realms and create his own (my one and only quibble with his work). Eastern Lythari appears to have no relation to any known Elven or fey tongue, and may even be a derivation of Tuigan or even Ruamvari (or some amalgam of Sylvan Elven and several eastern tongues).
I suppose his new trilogy may answer those questions - they are on my 'must read' list (after the last is released - I deplore waiting for books to come out when I'm in the middle of the story).
'Wild Elves' are just a more savage/reclusive branch of the wood Elves. The most comprehensive FR Elven dictionary can be found HERE on this site. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Nov 2010 17:15:56 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 05:20:54
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Aha! Found the problem. It was under Elven language translator- the site is at: http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/language/search/languagebase.htm
Warning, however- on mine it keeps popping up with a malware warning for the site, so it may be infected/defunct. The links are still there on google, but I can't get it to load. However, I had the foresight a couple of years ago to create a file with ALL of the site's translations up to that time- which is quite extensive- and if you like, I might be able to e-mail it to you. (If I can figure out how to add attachments... I'm not the most PC -literate gal in the world...) It is at least as good as the one here, IMO. If I send it, it would have to be in Word format. That okay? |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 05 Nov 2010 05:21:46 |
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Matt128
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 06:08:42
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Yes I would very much appreciate that if you have the time and if is not to much of a bother to you.  Yeah I got a warning to sometimes I wonder if old sites don't get infected with malicious scripts or something similar to ddos but still allowing the user to view the page.
Oh well I have kasper spy and I got so much crap on my computer I don't think its that big of a deal. 124gb free out of 596gb.. going to have to reformat and put all my important stuff on external hard drive meh..
Jabzor342@hotmail.com if you do send it to me.
anyways just wanted to say thanks for replying to my thread candlekeep.com always seems to be a friendly place full of nice people and help ever since I got here which was not that long ago I'm really new heh. |
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Matt128
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 06:42:40
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Ah interesting I did not know that about them doing away with the difference Markustay. So high (old) drow was just called high drow or did it have a actual name? but really high drow resembled a similarity to Seldruin enough for them to just do away with the difference?
So I'm guessing the translator on chosen spits out the language of old drow? So writing the language old high drow is the same as old high elven which is Seldruin aka when written Hamarfae basically a distinct form of Espruar? I think I confused myself lol..
I guess the words aren't the same just similar in syllables. I know they are not exactly the same because I played on a nwn underdark drow Role Play server with a surface server as well and they had a language translator that used elven under common draconic ect but you had to manually write out the drow by learning from other players but at that time I had done some research to find out more on my own.
Lythari are just elven Lycanthrope shape shifters that use a different elven language in place, created by a FR author? Which I'm guessing are a new trilogy of novels that are good by reading that you have them on you're must read list.
Anyway I need to start reading FR novels I have another thread talking about I am unsure where to start I have played bioware games like bg bg2 iwd nwn series which are older Editions of D&D, good games though I heard the bhaalspawn series novels are not good. However I have a great fondness for FR lore and really want to emerse myself in it whether it be going to a LFR event or just reading the novels. I have a couple of friends who have read a ton of FR novels and Dragon Lance novels. |
Edited by - Matt128 on 05 Nov 2010 06:44:53 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 07:10:41
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The language translator on Chosen pre-dates the 3rd ed change. I'd still use it, as the only reason 3rd ed did away with it seems to have been to have fewer languages to deal with. Either that, or the people who worked on it simply did not do their homework when they wrote some of the sourcebooks. There are plenty of sources for drow translators forthem to have kept it the same, but instead they chose to shoehorn the language into just another form of elvish to streamline things. That said, AFAIK, the languages themselves have not changed in canon lore (drow still use the same language as before in all the novels). For "high drow" using Auld elvish would probably work, but keep in mind that most temple services are just as likely to use Abyssal, as any form of elvish.
From all of the translators I have seen, the two languages are VERY different. They use the same structure, and have a FEW similar root-words, but that's where the similarities end. Drow language is much harsher, less flowing (sounds slightly jarring, if you try to speak it) and less "melodic". The sounds are quite different from the elvish root- if you take even a brief look at some elvish words on the translator on here, and compare them to the same words or phrases on Chosen, you will notice a BIG difference in the sounds. Even many of the words themselves have changed from the elvish origin.
An example: "My friend" in elvish is Mellonamin. In drow it would be Usstan abbil. (for plurals, the elvish would be Mellonenamin, where the drow would be Usstan abbilen.
One of the FEW words that remained the same, interestingly, is faer- magic. Quel'faer(drow), Ahk'faer(elvish).
If you really want to get immersed in FR elven lore, start with Elaine Cunningham's Evermeet, her Starlight and Shadows Trilogy, and the Swords and Songs books. All good. Anything by Ed Greenwood is worth the time/effort, and the first three Dark Elf books (Homeland, Exile, Sojourn) by R A Salvatore. There are plenty of other good FR novels, but those are all good ones to start with. Also the Year of Rogue Dragons trilogy, and any of the "Best of" Realms anthologies. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 10:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Aha! Found the problem. It was under Elven language translator- the site is at: http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/language/search/languagebase.htm
Warning, however- on mine it keeps popping up with a malware warning for the site, so it may be infected/defunct. The links are still there on google, but I can't get it to load. However, I had the foresight a couple of years ago to create a file with ALL of the site's translations up to that time- which is quite extensive- and if you like, I might be able to e-mail it to you. (If I can figure out how to add attachments... I'm not the most PC -literate gal in the world...) It is at least as good as the one here, IMO. If I send it, it would have to be in Word format. That okay?
Yeah, got the same problem.
There's a FR list of Elven words somewhere on Candlekeep. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 11:00:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt128
Lythari are just elven Lycanthrope shape shifters that use a different elven language in place, created by a FR author?
Lythari first appeared in the Elves of Evermeet sourcebook. And they're not true lycanthropes: they only have two forms, and being a lythari can only be passed on by birth or ritual. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Nov 2010 11:00:26 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 14:45:01
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I think Mark Sehestedt heavily implied the Lythari of the Lake of Mists region are interlopers from a different Fey realm than the earlier interloper (moon en sun) elves. With the strange difference in language I suspect they dont hail from Tintageer but some other fey-prime world. To me their words and sentances had a more "native american" vibe.
Belkagen (good seer), Hro'nyewachu (Heart of the Piercing), Karakhnir (sharpens the bite) Yastehanye (honored exile) to me sound like a harsher, more primal elven tongue. I really liked the sounds of them. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 17:47:01
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1) The Lythari did not have a seperate language until Mark Sehestedt began writing about them. Bladewind is correct about 'the vibe' - it appears he may have looked at too much Dragonlance artwork for his model (wherein the Elves always looked like Native Americans to me). My take - I would say they were a group that somehow got 'ported into the Taan (Wastes) region from Anchorme' (where the separation of the proto-continent occurred almost 20,000 years ago - more the enough time for their language to have changed radically). I am not a fan of over-complicating FR's already Interloping-rife history any further - I do not want "yet another group of people from yet another world". Forgotten Realms is one thing, but Toril is beginning to look like the Universe's sewer. On the other hand, now that I think about, Earth itself would be an excellent place for them to have come from; there is that portal in Yellowstone....
2)AFAIK there is no name for 'High Drow' - Ed mentions it in the original (REAL) DotU. It is as close to their original (pre-descent) language as they get. If I were to give it a name, it would be Ilythruin (the dark-elven variant of the Seldarine-supported Seldruin). Given that both Seldruin and High Drow pre-date the Drow curse, they should be similar enough for understanding. It would be more like a modern-day italian speaking to a modern-day Spanish person - they can understand abut 50% of what the other is saying, but its certainly not the same as speaking te same language. Communication is possible, however.
3) Ed also explains the 'modern drow' is actually a blend of words from many other Underdark languages, so it would be an amalgam of Undercommon (which is an amalgam itself) and Elvish... with about 14,000 years of history (so it is NOTHING like modern Elvish, which has also had 14 millenia to change as well).
4) I think the changes were made because at least one author I can think of off-hand uses Elvish words for his Drow, so in 3e they just decided to simplify things and say Drow speak elvish (because two VERY different groups with very little interaction for 14,000 years would still speak the same tongue... even for fantasy, that's absolutely ridiculous). So rather then go with that, you can just assume the few words that are used in novels are some of the few that have remained the same for that time (it is possible for a few basic words to have remained unchanged).
5) Second assumption regarding going from the 2e world to the 3e rules: Any Elves in your campaign that encounter Drow (and I am assuming the elves are the PCs, but it can work either way) will be able to communicate via some little knowledge of the more ancient, 'court tongues' of both groups. The caveat here is that the elves of your party should be of noble birth, or at least one should have grown up in a noble house. What this means is that when the Elves only speak to one-another, the Drow will not understand. It also means that the when the Drow speak to one-another, the Elves will not understand. The assumption here is that at least one of the Drow (the leader) has a working knowledge of 'high Drow' (and a priestess would be best for this... but there better be a damn good reason why she would talk to 'Faery Elves'), and that it would be the leader of the Drow that would do all the talking for the group. This will keep the 2e world intact and still allow the 3e rules to work for you.
6) I hesitate calling the language of the Lythari 'Lythari', since I can think of at least two other canon Lythari that do not speak it (or at least, we have no evidence that they speak it). I note that Steve Sypa (Lord Karsus/Dagnirion) uses 'Eastern Lythari' to denote the difference in his dictionary, and for now, I will go with that. Dependent upon what history Mr. Sehestedt gives us (and I enjoy his writing), I may alter my views to that language being a racial sub-group tongue (since all Lythari obviously 'went another route' at some point during their development and separation from the Feywild). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Nov 2010 18:13:19 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 23:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Matt128
Lythari are just elven Lycanthrope shape shifters that use a different elven language in place, created by a FR author?
Lythari first appeared in the Elves of Evermeet sourcebook. And they're not true lycanthropes: they only have two forms, and being a lythari can only be passed on by birth or ritual.
Indeed.
I still keep to the no hybrid form if and when I use lythari in my campaign, regardless of what the current lore says.
I mean... considering the fact that the lythari didn't originally have this hybrid form, and the details that surround their brand of shape-changing, in that it is only passed on by ritual or by procreation, I'm still of the mind that they not true lycanthropes. They are, simply, elves who have the ability to transform into wolves. |
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Elven Translator?
