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 Sarphil: Lost Kingdom of the Dwarves...is up!!!
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  04:55:06  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Dear Scribes here is my effort for Sarphil.....hope you enjoy it...I'll be off line for a while now...got a bone tumor to get cut outa me leg on Wednesday so will be out of it for a few weeks. So enjoy this little number on me... I'll do part B of it when I'm back on my foot...

http://phasai.deviantart.com/art/Sarphil-178233972

So cheers

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/

bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe

199 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  05:19:49  Show Profile  Visit bladeinAmn's Homepage Send bladeinAmn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hope everything goes well man!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  05:25:09  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As always, an interesting take Snowblood. Well done.

And good luck for your forthcoming surgery.

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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  09:44:52  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nicely done!

All the best to you and fast recovery.

Ergdusch

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
317 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  10:52:20  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good luck with the surgery and as always thank you for your hard work.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3067 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  10:57:43  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good luck.


"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  13:20:16  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Best wishes to you

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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  14:07:34  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks too all for the best wishes....I'll be back.....hop hop hop.....

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
565 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  14:30:47  Show Profile  Visit Cleric Generic's Homepage Send Cleric Generic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yay! more Dwarfy goodness! A quick skim reveals your usual high standard of detail and general niftiness. I shall read it with gusto.

Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!

ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!

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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  15:03:27  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice work...
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  16:48:35  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been perusing your works and they are just amazing! One question, have you seen any city or dungeon maps for the ruins of Siluvanede various sites?

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Clowns in front of them
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe

Norway
377 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2010 :  17:21:07  Show Profile Send Elfinblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah a dwarven treat finally! Well done sir, and good luck with your surgery.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1699 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2019 :  18:19:11  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your research and commitment to providing fanlore, Scribe Snowblood.

I'm hoping you can help me sift through which parts in your writeup are original creations and which are the result of research.

I'm running a campaign where the ruins of Roldilar and Vastar are important and I've been going through sources about the history of the Earthspurs and the Vast. Both the dwarves and the orcs claim to be the 'original' founders of great kingdoms on the region and bitterly diverge on which peoples first mined a given mountain or constructed halls there. So the founding of Vastar and any dwarven presence in the region before it is important for my campaign.

George Krashos introduced the dwarven realm of 'Felimar' as a predecessor to Roldilar, to account for the construction of Earthfast City.* I find his reasoning compelling and was planning on having that answer be the answer in my campaign.

I'm not sure about Sarphil existing as a powerful polity into almost the modern age, either. It seems difficult to reconcile it with other history of the region, especially if Sarphil has powerful cities located within the Earthspurs.

The minotaur kingdom of Grong-Haap ruled most of the eastern Moonsea between -981 DR through -350 DR and I just don't see how Sarphil and Grong-Haap could coexist in that area without a major war. What are your thoughts on that?

*Roldilar existed for too short a time for such a huge construction to be finished during its lifetime.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1699 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2019 :  18:34:16  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On the second map in the Sarphil PDF, there are locations like 'Highskull Rock' and 'Seaspire', but these don't seem to be mentioned in the text.

Got any insight into them?

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32520 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2019 :  19:57:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Snowblood hasn't posted here in several years; you may be waiting for an answer for a while.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1699 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2019 :  20:14:53  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Snowblood hasn't posted here in several years; you may be waiting for an answer for a while.


Well, does anyone else have thoughts?

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Kentinal
Great Reader

4383 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2019 :  21:02:25  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Snowblood hasn't posted here in several years; you may be waiting for an answer for a while.


Well, does anyone else have thoughts?



You might try contacting him though https://www.deviantart.com it appears he has added material as recent as 2018.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5636 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2019 :  23:27:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sarphil was destroyed well before the time that you are looking at. That's why I created Felimar. Sarphil was founded in -7500 DR and fell to drow and monster attacks in -4400 DR (as per the "Cormanthyr" accessory, p.33).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1699 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2019 :  01:38:52  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Sarphil was destroyed well before the time that you are looking at. That's why I created Felimar. Sarphil was founded in -7500 DR and fell to drow and monster attacks in -4400 DR (as per the "Cormanthyr" accessory, p.33).

-- George Krashos


Exactly.

Which is why I had trouble reconciling a Sarphil that survived that fall (albeit much reduced for a few centuries) and was apparently back to expanding a millennia later with other canon for the area.

How far south do you think Sarphil reached into the Earthspurs and the Vast, in the 5th millennia, before the fall?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5636 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2019 :  02:26:40  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the elves of Cormanthyr forged their alliance with the dwarves of Sarphil on the "battlefields of the Vast" in -6400 DR ("Cormanthyr", p.32), so clearly there was a dwarven presence there - even if it was to just keep the humanoid numbers under control. On that, I note that while the write-up for Sarphil in FR11 mentions orcs, I see their main foe and being ogres and giants.

I would assume that miners from Sarphil would have scouted some of the Earthspurs looking for precious metals and gems, so I expect that they had a presence there, even if their major clanholds were to the north. I also think that in those days, the Earthspurs were giant-dominated, likely with goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear servants. The Vastar of the Orcs came along much later and was due to the influx of gray orcs escapting the Orcgate Wars.

And I don't think that any part of Sarphil proper survived the fall. "Cormanthyr" (p.26) seems to make that pretty clear and that's why I had Felimar as an offshoot of Dareth.

I haven't read Snowsblood's work because I haven't wanted it to consciously or subconsciously influence any of my Realms musings. If he has Sarphil surviving in some form after -4400 DR, then that assertion is one that comes purely from him - there is no canon support for such an assertion other than to note the survival of a number of small, isolated dwarven holds and settlements in the area.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1699 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2019 :  02:45:17  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Well the elves of Cormanthyr forged their alliance with the dwarves of Sarphil on the "battlefields of the Vast" in -6400 DR ("Cormanthyr", p.32), so clearly there was a dwarven presence there - even if it was to just keep the humanoid numbers under control. On that, I note that while the write-up for Sarphil in FR11 mentions orcs, I see their main foe and being ogres and giants.

I would assume that miners from Sarphil would have scouted some of the Earthspurs looking for precious metals and gems, so I expect that they had a presence there, even if their major clanholds were to the north. I also think that in those days, the Earthspurs were giant-dominated, likely with goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear servants. The Vastar of the Orcs came along much later and was due to the influx of gray orcs escapting the Orcgate Wars.

And I don't think that any part of Sarphil proper survived the fall. "Cormanthyr" (p.26) seems to make that pretty clear and that's why I had Felimar as an offshoot of Dareth.

The above pretty much matches my thinking.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I haven't read Snowsblood's work because I haven't wanted it to consciously or subconsciously influence any of my Realms musings. If he has Sarphil surviving in some form after -4400 DR, then that assertion is one that comes purely from him - there is no canon support for such an assertion other than to note the survival of a number of small, isolated dwarven holds and settlements in the area.

-- George Krashos


Fair enough.

While I don't see a way to use his history, because a surviving Sarphil just plays havoc with the plausible history of later polities in the era, I want to use some of his locations.

Chiefly, there is an interesting idea of the Ice Road, a subterranean route leading from the Earthspurs in the Vast to the more northerly clanholds. It would go below the Hollow Mountain, which I imagine might have been the most southerly major site of Sarphil, with anything south of that being mining expeditions and waystations more than permanent settlements.

Does that sound plausible?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5636 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2019 :  17:47:20  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sure does sound plausible. Dwarves do like making those fancy underground roads - even if in my opinion they end up paving the way for the Underdark races to march right into their domains.

George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1699 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2019 :  15:18:30  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Sure does sound plausible. Dwarves do like making those fancy underground roads - even if in my opinion they end up paving the way for the Underdark races to march right into their domains.

George Krashos


Funny you should say that, as one of the other locations I plan to use from Snowblood's work is a former dwarven hall on also connected to the Ice Road, which in the fifth millennia before Dale Reckoning was attacked by drow with demonic allies, forcing the dwarves to call upon their allegiance with the elves and eventually seal the deeper levels off using elven high magic and runecastings of titanic power.

Despite these seals supposedly providing security, life on the upper levels never was the same, with inhabitants experiencing bad dreams and vague feelings of dread, and the hold eventually acquired an evil reputation for a variety of reasons. So, despite an abundance of natural springs, a beautiful subterranean lake and a verdant mountain valley on the surface that provided plentiful sustenance, the hold was eventually abandoned.

More than six millennia later, few dwarves (and even fewer people of other races) know about the ancient Ice Road and even those who know rarely know how to find entrances to it. And even the name of the abandoned hold southeast of the Hollow Mountain has been lost to history*, but those few who have explored the Ice Road experience unexplained feelings of dread near it and take care not to spend too much time there.

There are still good springs there to replenish water for underground explorers, but with vague tales of curses, not everyone would prove willing to drink the water.

In game terms, the deeper levels would be something analogous to a demoncyst, where thousands of drow and their demon allies were sealed within collapsed mines. Some of the springs are indeed safe to drink, but the lake and some of the deeper springs carry an abyssal taint that induces nightmares, paranoia and mental degeneration.

*Which, given the dwarven reverence for history and genealogy, should give pause to anyone who realizes this.

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