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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14016 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2017 :  05:07:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Okay, what happened to the Netherese?

I know that sounds like a rather stupid question, and I know we've probably been over it several times, but I am having a 'senior moment' right now. They're 'not around' in 5e, correct?



Thultanthar crashed on Myth Drannor and was destroyed. As for the consequences, this is from Ed himself:
Oh, DANG.

Now THAT is what I call 'heavy handed'. Destroy Thultanthar and 'Returned Myth Drannor' in one swell foop.

Just... DAMN!

Thanks for the speedy response, BTW

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2693 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2017 :  10:59:54  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're welcome. And yes, that was one of the changes brought by the Sundering/5e that I didn't like at all (I liked the restoration of what was lost--for example, Tymanther/Old Empires was handled well IMO, because while Unther and Mulhorand are back, Tymanther and the dragonborn aren't just gone. Tymanther is still there, albeit much diminished).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2005 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2017 :  17:00:14  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, those events are covered in The Herald . Most of the elves from MD are in Semberholme or Evereska, now. Ed said it wasn't entirely destroyed, but the SCAG suggests it was so...we'll see.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14016 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2017 :  18:11:08  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lore gets overwritten all the time, and a lot of times our 'first look' at something (where we first hear about it in a new edition) turns out to be "not quite the truth" later on (when the designers start taking a closer look at each region, and what they want to do with it... plans change, after all).

Just destroying Myth Drannor - something central to Ed's home games - would be completely counter-intuitive. If it were me - and these guys are supposed to be 'professionals', so I damn sure hope they are BETTER than me - I would say it 'crashed on the outskirts', and the damage to Myth Drannor was severe, but not nearly as 'total' as people first thought. In that way, instead of getting rid of a perfectly good adventuring region (that could provide MANY adventures of all different levels), we get a ruin on top of another ruin (sort of next to it, in car-accident kind of way), so that now we have DOUBLE the area of 'interesting places' to visit.

It would also allow for us to have several 'power groups' with bases all around the place, all looking to 'find magical treasures' from both cities. Also, perhaps there were still some more intact stuff completely hidden by the old Mythal, and when the two magical fields (Mythal and Mythalar) came into contact, they scrambled each other, revealing.......... NEVER BEFORE SEEN ELVEN RUINS THAT MAY BE IN VERY GOOD SHAPE, and have NOT been explored for the past few centuries by thousands of previous adventurers.

Thats what I would do - instead of 'making the situation worse' (game-wise), I'd say it increased its usefulness exponentially.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Aug 2017 02:07:07
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30202 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2017 :  22:28:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A quote from Ed, on this topic:

quote:
When the POSSIBLE danger of Thultanthar crashing became apparent (i.e. when the city started flying towards Myth Drannor, not when what El did became obvious) the Srinshee contacted all the Myth Drannan baelnorn she could and commanded them to get to the Tree of Souls and magically shield and defend it, warping the Weave to form a protective barrier around it (so when Thultanthar came crashing down, it would punch through the city like a spike, and protect the Tree). This was done, and the Tree has survived. There has been some consternation among certain readers about Myth Drannor being entirely in ruins, but not so. Like any city that’s been fought through, a big cleanup is in order, but Thultanthar is a pretty small city, and Myth Drannor, being “at one with the forest” [growing trees as dwellings, trees and moss and open forest terrain everywhere, not human-habit “pave over everything” architecture, is a very large (in footprint) city. So a relatively small area of Myth Drannor was pancaked under the shattered remnants of Shade.

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2005 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2017 :  23:29:27  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
^This is what I remember Ed saying, and then the SCAG suggested it was completely destroyed (based on the wording). I know lore gets overwritten all the time, which is why I said "we'll see". I think they destroyed MD again because people liked the ruins, so they "gave us the ruins back" (even though there was still unexplored areas when MD was restored). Personally, I like Ed's explanation better. It seems kind of silly to bring back a city only to destroy it (and another city) again a century later, though granted that kind of thing can and does happen.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2693 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2017 :  23:32:36  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The full article is here: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/after-fall

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30202 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2017 :  01:38:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

^This is what I remember Ed saying, and then the SCAG suggested it was completely destroyed (based on the wording). I know lore gets overwritten all the time, which is why I said "we'll see". I think they destroyed MD again because people liked the ruins, so they "gave us the ruins back" (even though there was still unexplored areas when MD was restored). Personally, I like Ed's explanation better. It seems kind of silly to bring back a city only to destroy it (and another city) again a century later, though granted that kind of thing can and does happen.



Personally, I think the sillier thing was that a city laying in ruins for centuries, with twisted magic, fiends, and a host of other nastybads prowling about, somehow became cleansed, settled, and rebuilt in a handful of years.

Yes, I get that an elven army followed a fey'ri army into there -- but to me, that end result is still unrealistic. My thinking is that an armed outpost would be the more logical development, spreading out from there over a matter of decades to cleanse and rebuild the city.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14016 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2017 :  02:21:26  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
100% agree. In fact, the way I spun things above is pretty-much on the same page as what Ed said (except for the details about the srinshee - I personally like to leave the 'why' part out for individual DMs to fiddle with).

A big, spread-out area of ruins ("now with with more ruins in every bite!"), with a couple of semi-recaptured places wherein certain groups would have their bases. Hell, I'd even have one building on the furthest outskirts be a combination Inn, trading post (adventurer's supplies), and temple (the bartender {owner?} IS a priest of Tymora), where one can meet with all sorts of 'shady characters' and make deals (with various factions). Maybe have a few 'support buildings' (little more than shacks) around it offering services, and call the whole proto-settlement "Torm's Rest" or some-such. You zone the whole thing off like how they do in VG's, so that different areas are for different levels of adventurers. Heck, come to think of it, that DOES sound like an interesting VG: "The retaking of Myth Drannor").

The end-quest would be to shut down the malfunctioning mythalar, which is reacting badly being mixed with the mythal (we are talking 100 megaton nuke here, if the characters don't 'disarm it' in time). Then theres a cut-scene where Amluiral and the Elves of Evermeet fly-in on wing horses and and cast a ritual which 'heals' the mythalar, and Myth Drannor is restored!

The sequel: Myth Drannor - the deep levels
3rd (and final?) chapter: Myth Drannor: Welcome to Hell

Who needs Undermountain & Halaster, when we can have a half-crazed, cackling Elminster. Its basically a mega-dungeon set in a wilderness - I really don't think thats been done before.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Aug 2017 03:16:00
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30202 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2017 :  04:49:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

100% agree. In fact, the way I spun things above is pretty-much on the same page as what Ed said (except for the details about the srinshee - I personally like to leave the 'why' part out for individual DMs to fiddle with).

A big, spread-out area of ruins ("now with with more ruins in every bite!"), with a couple of semi-recaptured places wherein certain groups would have their bases. Hell, I'd even have one building on the furthest outskirts be a combination Inn, trading post (adventurer's supplies), and temple (the bartender {owner?} IS a priest of Tymora), where one can meet with all sorts of 'shady characters' and make deals (with various factions). Maybe have a few 'support buildings' (little more than shacks) around it offering services, and call the whole proto-settlement "Torm's Rest" or some-such. You zone the whole thing off like how they do in VG's, so that different areas are for different levels of adventurers. Heck, come to think of it, that DOES sound like an interesting VG: "The retaking of Myth Drannor").

The end-quest would be to shut down the malfunctioning mythalar, which is reacting badly being mixed with the mythal (we are talking 100 megaton nuke here, if the characters don't 'disarm it' in time). Then theres a cut-scene where Amluiral and the Elves of Evermeet fly-in on wing horses and and cast a ritual which 'heals' the mythalar, and Myth Drannor is restored!

The sequel: Myth Drannor - the deep levels
3rd (and final?) chapter: Myth Drannor: Welcome to Hell

Who needs Undermountain & Halaster, when we can have a half-crazed, cackling Elminster. Its basically a mega-dungeon set in a wilderness - I really don't think thats been done before.



We already have an insane lich there -- Druth Daern. So far as I know, he's never been mentioned outside of the Myth Drannor boxed set -- which means he's never officially been destroyed or driven off.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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