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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 20:49:41
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Ohh... yeah.. Mr. old Creeping Doom. I totally forgot about the badest mother dragong ever. Now if I could only find his lair!!! He would feel my wrath, but thats a whole new story! Wonder if his stats and abilities could be found anywhere???
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 21:06:27
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| Yeah... And that nowhere to be found on any map! Darn! Havent been able to find him written like Tchazzar for instance! Can this be found anywhere? |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 21:13:57
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SWEET... Im so gonna smite that ol' bag o' bones!!! |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 21:18:11
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| I dont need a Brotherhood... "snorts" I AM TOO POWERFUL!!! |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 01:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Larloch's plans are reach further beyond the Material Plane whereas Karsus thought mostly about Faerun in general and Netheril in particular...
Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.
One of his current 'plots' revolves around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faerūn. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly. In the sense that he'll be doing a couple of things:-
1. Monitoring people movement; who goes where and more importantly, why;
2. Putting in place magics to control creatures or people using 'his' portals, or at the very least access their knowledge/memories;
3. Using his knowledge of portals and portal networks to bring groups or individuals into conflict and thereby benefiting from the fallout.
All of this is intended to be done without the hand of Larloch being apparent. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 02:57:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.
One of his current 'plots' revolves around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faerūn. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly. In the sense that he'll be doing a couple of things:-
1. Monitoring people movement; who goes where and more importantly, why;
2. Putting in place magics to control creatures or people using 'his' portals, or at the very least access their knowledge/memories;
3. Using his knowledge of portals and portal networks to bring groups or individuals into conflict and thereby benefiting from the fallout.
All of this is intended to be done without the hand of Larloch being apparent.
The $64,000 question (at least in the canon post-Spellplague Realms) is: how badly did the Spellplague and accompanying portal-breaking foul up Larloch's plans? Or did this actually make things easier for him, allowing him to re-create said portals in forms that are easier for him to control by said means? 
Either way, I'm guessing the answer is [NDA], given that we know from Ed that there's a big shiny new epic-level barrier against divination around Larloch, courtesy of the Coastal Wizards. (As if he needs their help!)  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 29 Apr 2010 02:59:54 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 03:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
The $64,000 question (at least in the canon post-Spellplague Realms) is: how badly did the Spellplague and accompanying portal-breaking foul up Larloch's plans? Or did this actually make things easier for him, allowing him to re-create said portals in forms that are easier for him to control by said means?
Well, if we consider that Larloch's plans were indeed so far-reaching and so complicated... it's entirely possible that whatever immediate impact the Spellplague might have had on them, was so minuscule as to not affect them to any great degree.
Alternatively, it's easy enough to suspect, given what Ed's said in the past, that Larloch simply had contingencies upon contingencies upon contingencies. Did Larloch plan against the death of gods? Could he have instituted plans that protected him from a potential death of the Lady of Mysteries? [This is interesting in and of itself, especially when you consider the *unique* relationship Mystra and Larloch shared before her demise. Did they ever have crisis-planning situations that revolved around "what-if" scenarios similar to what occurred with Karsus and the collapse of the Weave? I think this is an intriguing possibility.]
After all, when you plan that far ahead, you're going to have to expect that a few minor bumps and maybe one or two rocks are going to appear in your way at some point.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 08:23:30
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One thing that sci-fi has taught me is that very long lived and immortal beings tend to play a long game. If you live for thousands of years, events so rare that they don't cross the minds of things that struggle to reach 100 years suddenly become more of a worry. In Larloch's case, he's already seen the goddess of magic go bang twice prior to the spell plague, and if anyone could have seen Cyric's little stunt coming it would have been this guy.
It could be that, in addition to instilling some of her divine magicy goodness into the Chosen, other things of notable arcane power also inherited just enough of her spark to maintain the core of their power through the plague. This could explain how Larloch, among others, managed to avoid going nova and recovering rather quickly, and why the more notable wizardy types didn't start vomiting blue fire and exploding like the rest of them. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 09:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Well the total magic immunity Ive gotten from FR wiki. [...]
If it is all magic cast on upon him then thats prette much the same, and that to me is the same as 100% magic immunity.
Well the FR wiki has the same problem as other wikis: Some people are just typing things without proofs :)
Spell Reflection only reflects spells that are targeting the caster (of spell reflection) directly. All aoe spells aren't affected by it.
So you could harm someone with spellreflection by casting fireball or ice storm or meteor storm if he hasn't other protections or imunities from it. |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 29 Apr 2010 09:44:23 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 19:14:47
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Well the total magic immunity Ive gotten from FR wiki. [...]
If it is all magic cast on upon him then thats prette much the same, and that to me is the same as 100% magic immunity.
Well the FR wiki has the same problem as other wikis: Some people are just typing things without proofs :)
Spell Reflection only reflects spells that are targeting the caster (of spell reflection) directly. All aoe spells aren't affected by it.
So you could harm someone with spellreflection by casting fireball or ice storm or meteor storm if he hasn't other protections or imunities from it.
True but as it says in Lords of Darkness, that no one have ever cast a spell at him and lived! I would no matter how and when play him as almost immune to what ever lvl 1-9 spell. Some lvl 10 spell might be build specificly to break magical barriors, like: Melcar's Spell Miasma or Pierce Any Shield
But untill so powerful spell are in play I would give him total magic immunity. If not by the immunity itself then by his given to himself powers and spells and wards made permanent Upon himself.
To comment on his relationship with The All Mother...
I would assume that he was at some point a secret chossen. That might not have been the case as far as the "standard" chossen is represented, but some form of friendship/respect between them there have obviously been. He did some work for her, and he kept his ability to create artifact and cast spells of "Phenominal cosmic power".
What ever spells, or abilities he was alowed to create is only known to Ed, but I have my ideas!
He is in my oppinion one of only 3, who have ever reached so deep into the art that they could discuss magical theory and laws with Mystra herself.
Ok this is becomming a rant... Im gonna stop now... and let you all comment on my theories of grand insight! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 01:29:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
To comment on his relationship with The All Mother...
I would assume that he was at some point a secret chossen. That might not have been the case as far as the "standard" chossen is represented, but some form of friendship/respect between them there have obviously been. He did some work for her, and he kept his ability to create artifact and cast spells of "Phenominal cosmic power".
He is in my oppinion one of only 3, who have ever reached so deep into the art that they could discuss magical theory and laws with Mystra herself.
Well, Ed has hinted before that whatever Larloch was doing prior to Mystra's demise, was something she agreed with. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 03:55:24
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quote:
'Evil' is pretty vague anyway, it could be anything from being a bit of an a**hole to being hell-bent on total genocide. In this case, I'd imagine 'evil' means he couldn't care less how many worthless mortals get vaporised in the course of his research and other endeavours, but he's otherwise not actively hostile.
Evil in "small measure" usually grows to unimaginable proportion, specially if the one doing it has more power than everybody else. So I would not be surprised if Larloch suddenly finds it "fit" to eliminate a considerable portion of Faerun (including its inhabitants) for his "greater plans," (whatever those are).
Anyway, as of the Karsus vs Larloch issue, hmmm, I must say I would favor Karsus. What has Larloch done that is far greater than stealing a god's power (as what Karsus did) ?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 05:51:45
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Evil in "small measure" usually grows to unimaginable proportion, specially if the one doing it has more power than everybody else. So I would not be surprised if Larloch suddenly finds it "fit" to eliminate a considerable portion of Faerun (including its inhabitants) for his "greater plans," (whatever those are).
After more than 1600 years, I think it's pretty safe to assume that conquest is not on his agenda.
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Anyway, as of the Karsus vs Larloch issue, hmmm, I must say I would favor Karsus. What has Larloch done that is far greater than stealing a god's power (as what Karsus did) ?
Easy -- he amassed the power to do the same thing, and then showed he wasn't stupid enough to try it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 06:20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Evil in "small measure" usually grows to unimaginable proportion, specially if the one doing it has more power than everybody else. So I would not be surprised if Larloch suddenly finds it "fit" to eliminate a considerable portion of Faerun (including its inhabitants) for his "greater plans," (whatever those are).
After more than 1600 years, I think it's pretty safe to assume that conquest is not on his agenda.
Indeed. Larloch doesn't hit me as the "evil-tyrant" lording over vast and conquered lands. He'd really prefer to be the spider at the centre of an elaborate and ancient web -- manipulating events and powers for so long over the millennia, as to be almost completely forgotten.
I see Larloch as the rumoured "secret voice of power" that's long been hinted at, through legends, as the true authority in the mortal Realms. Even if it's not entirely true... there is always a secret belief held in the deep, dark corners of the minds of sages, scholars, and loremasters all across Faerūn:- that *someone/something* is dancing at the centre of all that is evil and unjust on Toril. Even if they've just forgotten his name... Larloch is still there.
quote:
Easy -- he amassed the power to do the same thing, and then showed he wasn't stupid enough to try it.
Aye.
The very fact that Larloch still lives, and lives rather *well* [for an insane "ultra-lich"], is a testament to his ability to not only amass great power... but to conserve and to sparingly use that power without ensuring his own demise.
Plus, he's got [or, rather, had] the backing of the Lady of Mysteries. Something Karsus kinda overlooked as being something important enough to maintain. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 30 Apr 2010 06:21:27 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 09:35:17
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
*snip*
The very fact that Larloch still lives, and lives rather *well* [for an insane "ultra-lich"], is a testament to his ability to not only amass great power...
"Lives"? Methinks we need a better verb to describe his existence...
Undeads? 
Unlives? 
Rocks on? 
Endures?
I also propose that we declare his unique lich-state to be Larlochdom.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 11:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
After more than 1600 years, I think it's pretty safe to assume that conquest is not on his agenda.
Hard to say, as an undead he doesn't care about time and remember the Sojourner who planned for millenia before he took action. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:09:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Evil in "small measure" usually grows to unimaginable proportion, specially if the one doing it has more power than everybody else. So I would not be surprised if Larloch suddenly finds it "fit" to eliminate a considerable portion of Faerun (including its inhabitants) for his "greater plans," (whatever those are).
After more than 1600 years, I think it's pretty safe to assume that conquest is not on his agenda.
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Anyway, as of the Karsus vs Larloch issue, hmmm, I must say I would favor Karsus. What has Larloch done that is far greater than stealing a god's power (as what Karsus did) ?
Easy -- he amassed the power to do the same thing, and then showed he wasn't stupid enough to try it.
Good point. But should there be a concrete proof that would support the notion that Larloch indeed has grown more powerful than Karsus?
 In comparison, Szass Tam, though not as powerful as Larloch, has at least proven his might by conquering his own homeland. Larloch could do a lot with the power he's got. But what has he done so far that's quite noteworthy? Conquering some realms to expand his domain and further his researches can be one. Or does conquering a nation or two sound a "stupid" attempt for a great arcanist such as Larloch?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Evil in "small measure" usually grows to unimaginable proportion, specially if the one doing it has more power than everybody else. So I would not be surprised if Larloch suddenly finds it "fit" to eliminate a considerable portion of Faerun (including its inhabitants) for his "greater plans," (whatever those are).
After more than 1600 years, I think it's pretty safe to assume that conquest is not on his agenda.
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Anyway, as of the Karsus vs Larloch issue, hmmm, I must say I would favor Karsus. What has Larloch done that is far greater than stealing a god's power (as what Karsus did) ?
Easy -- he amassed the power to do the same thing, and then showed he wasn't stupid enough to try it.
Good point. But should there be a concrete proof that would support the notion that Larloch indeed has grown more powerful than Karsus?
In comparison, Szass Tam, though not as powerful as Larloch, has at least proven his might by conquering his own homeland. Larloch could do a lot with the power he's got. But what has he done so far that's quite noteworthy? Conquering some realms to expand his domain and further his researches can be one. Or does conquering a nation or two sound a "stupid" attempt for a great arcanist such as Larloch?
Concrete proof is boring and gives us nothing to talk about. I would say that such minor things as geographical power holds no temptation for Larloch. I would guess that where knowledge and research is concerned very few can measure up against him. That's how I see him in play to, as the most dangerous source of knowledge the players can think of. They might get something from him, but at what price?
The Great Owl in the old animated Secret of Nimh is a good picture of Larloch to me. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:32:34
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Jorkens,
Hmmm, a powerful being content with being clandestine and mysterious in his ways sounds boring to me......It's time he makes some REAL ACTION HIMSELF! I do not care what that will be so long as he does not appear like a mere fountain of knowledge. Mayhap WotC should resurrect Karsus and have the two of them fight (for whatever believable reason they could conceive)...And the challenge? Well, they're both powerful and would undoubtedly efface the entire Faerun if they keep on hurling spells at each other. So why not this: use spells, still of great might, that are baneful to each other but would leave a considerable portion of Faerun or Toril unmolested?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:39:35
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quote:
Jorkens...
Concrete proof is boring and gives us nothing to talk about.
I don't think so... Say, the concrete proof is killing a ressurected Karsus? Will we not debate as to whether it is a good decision, or will making Karsus a thrall a better thing to do? Not to mention Allistair's (who so loves Karsus) vehement reaction if such thing ever happens... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Jorkens,
Hmmm, a powerful being content with being clandestine and mysterious in his ways sounds boring to me......It's time he makes some REAL ACTION HIMSELF! I do not care what that will be so long as he does not appear like a mere fountain of knowledge. Mayhap WotC should resurrect Karsus and have the two of them fight (for whatever believable reason they could conceive)...And the challenge? Well, they're both powerful and would undoubtedly efface the entire Faerun if they keep on hurling spells at each other. So why not this: use spells, still of great might, that are baneful to each other but would leave a considerable portion of Faerun or Toril unmolested?
To me that sounds boring. Nothing would be more predictable then yet another dead wizard looking for world domination. If he wins its over and if he looses its old news, either way it takes the whole fun of the unknown threath from the character.
And anything involving Karsus gets a thumb down from me. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:49:03
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| I respect your opinion, Jorkens. However, every cliche (like world domination or amassing of greater powers) can be rendered still "palatable" depending on how it is rendered, who renders it, and why is it rendered in the first place. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 18:55:15
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I respect your opinion, Jorkens. However, every cliche (like world domination or amassing of greater powers) can be rendered still "palatable" depending on how it is rendered, who renders it, and why is it rendered in the first place.
Not when there are so many others doing exactly the same thing. Every Lich, Banelich and half the wizards of Faerun are more or less making plans for this. What would then separate Larloch from the rest except for a couple of extra spells and hit points?
And no more resurrection of anything by WotC for me please.
I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this though |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 19:10:42
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He is like the secret hero... who could come out or be called upon if things look realy bad. He is survaying all of fearun and some planes at well. So wehen something realy bad happens, he could choose to apear, and deal with it. If he had total world domination, he would never have time for research or studying!!!
So I think he is quite cool the way he is. Iouloum on the otherhand seems boring. He is just sitting whereever he is sitting and doing nothing! Not to my knowlegde that is! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 19:30:01
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To your last sentence, Jorkens, I agree.
Moving forward... if ever WotC decides to publish a stand-alone novel or a trilogy where he's the star or a co-star (be it hero or anti-hero), I would daresay they pick Richard or Ed. Or both. Troy and Ed did a marvelous job with the Cormyr series, so why not have an Ed and Richard collaboration? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 19:42:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
He is like the secret hero... who could come out or be called upon if things look realy bad. He is survaying all of fearun and some planes at well. So wehen something realy bad happens, he could choose to apear, and deal with it. If he had total world domination, he would never have time for research or studying!!!
World dimination is just my suggestion (as a proof that he has really grown more powerful than Karsus). There are a million possibilities given the opportunities....Say, some arch-devil and a demigod connive to unleash a powerful spell that would transform millions of mortals into demons as addition to their servants that, say, they need to kill Asmodeus and take over his throne. And Larloch, who needs the motals as well in his own secret agenda, will do everthing in his power to halt the conspiracy...Maybe send Szass Tam or his other lich servants, or maybe, face the conspirators himself. Or he could devise a spell that would put Karsus's soul into a phylactery and make him a lich, too...a servant lich at that.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Topic |
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Did Larloch know Karsus?
