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Doc Filth
Seeker
55 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 13:03:46
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I've got a lot of fond memories of "Beneath the Twisted Tower", from the 2E boxed set, having kicked off two successful campaigns with it, and my question is this: would the stats be much of a problem to upgrade to 3rd Edition? And would it be viable to start a 3rd Edition campaign here (in 1367 DR), and eventually link up the Twisted Tower with Maerimydra in time for City of the Spider Queen, five in-universe years later? 5 years should be ample time for the PCs to advance to the requisite level, shouldn't it?
What do you learned people think?
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 13:33:05
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I also have fond memories of that module, since it was one of the first modules I played in the Realms, and the first I DM'ed.
I don't think there would be much trouble converting it at all, since it's a first level adventure and therefore all of the creatures you're going to be meeting are rather simple. No need to create complex advanced, class-level-possessing monsters, for instance. You may need to tone down the drow a bit, I've always found their complex rather deadly for 1st level characters, but making most of the fighters actually warriors might do the job.
As for tying it in, I think it would work fine. It's already implied that the drow have come from Maerimydra, so you can drop plenty of house tokens and maybe some random letters letting the players know that. Of course, you're talking to someone who enjoys playing tunnelrats, and underground adventures, so I personally would expand the adventure so the PC's take a trip down the river and start exploring. I'd assume that the river runs essentially north east, eventually leading directly to Szith Morcane or at least its environs. Get them exploring the depths (something Mourngrym would be happy to sponsor them to do, I'm sure), and getting them levels won't be any problem.
Finally, don't feel like you have to be wedded to the canon start date for the WotSQ. Its cause is outside mortal knowledge or control, so it can start whenever you want. It could even start as a way of saving your PC's butts, if they get themselves in too deep in a fight once they're approximately the right level, and they've got priestesses trying to kill them, have the Silence start and the priestesses lose their spells. Then the PC's are on the path already, trying to figure out why they're still alive. Deus ex machina of a different sort; not "god from the machine," but rather "god goes away." |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Doc Filth
Seeker
55 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 17:54:47
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Hey, Hoondatha, thanks for the reply. I agree with you on the Drow, and I think I'll make the Mongrelmen level 1 (or 2?) Rogues.
Any idea, though, where I can find 3rd Ed stats for Gibberlings? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 18:51:28
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Not really, no. 3e monsters aren't really my forte. However, it doesn't matter a whole lot exactly what they are, since the dwarves are getting transformed into them. If you can't find the gibberlings, just pick something else that's fairly small, weak, and grotesque. Or slap one of the stranger templates on them, though that would be less than ideal since the whole idea was to make them something else entirely so that they couldn't be traced back to the drow, and wouldn't cause any more problems for the drow as dwarves.
Otherwise, it would be a fairly easy way of giving your PC's any templates they wanted to aquire, like that stone-somethingoranother (afb) from Underdark. Or make the wizard an alienist, and he's turning the dwarves into pseudonatural creatures. Really, 3e has a lot of different things you could do to the poor dwarves. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 20:23:41
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| I think Monsters of Faerun actually has gibberlings in it. I'll check when I get home. |
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Doc Filth
Seeker
55 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 21:38:42
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D'oh!
I could have sworn I'd already checked there... :o
Many thanks for all the responses - having been inspired, I'm having a cautious thought about extending the process to include the Return of Randal Morn trilogy. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2010 : 00:32:57
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You're welcome, happy to help.
As for Sword of the Dales, you'd want to tweak it a bit, since it's also meant for starting players, but it's always easier to make things harder than easier, so that shouldn't be a problem. And if the PC's do as well under the Tower as the Shadowdale adventure assumes, it's entirely logical to make Mourngrym their patron. That makes it easy to send the PC's into Sword of the Dales, or wherever else you want them to go. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2010 : 11:51:53
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| I plan on running many of those adventures linked together so yeah, go ahead! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 01:11:47
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First of all, I like the idea of using the Twisted Tower adventure as the start of a campaign. From there, you can head to Daggerdale with the Doom of Daggerdale adventure - just change the dates to fit whenever your campaign is running in the Realms. If the Zhents are still occupying the dale, you can even run the three module "Sword of the Dales" arc, suitable upgraded to fit the players current level. This would set them up nicely to be asked by Randal Morn to look into the problems that open the CotSQ adventure.
That being said, I've always found much in the "Beneath the Twisted Tower" module that I strongly disliked. The author of the adventured, Don Bingle was a leading judge/player in the RPGA from it's inception and many of the hokey/jokey encounters that were common in early RPGA events crept into the BtTT adventure as well.
For example, the encounter with Elminster teleporting into the dungeon to train a puppy and telling the dog to "heal" over and over, which also activated a wand of CLW to heal the players was just plain stupid. Likewsie, the over use of permanant illusions, the heavily trapped corridors that prevent the drow from moving into areas of the dungeon that they need access to, the underwater deathtrap, the tunnels that appear almost too small to even crawl through and other poorly thought out encounters make it an adventure that needs a careful rewrite before sharing it with your players. That's just my opinion, your milage may vary. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Doc Filth
Seeker
55 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 12:29:07
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| Oh, I don't mind a bit of silliness in a starter adventure - don't want to give n00bs the impression that the Realms is a lethal place for first-time adventurers, after all... |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 16:19:31
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I agree... that perception got us into a whole world of things many of us didn't bargain for. Puns intended.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Apr 2010 16:21:08 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 16:31:16
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Doc - no offence intended, but I think there is a huge difference between having Eliminister teleport into a random cave (to train a puppy no less) that the players just happen to be exploring and an adventure that demonstrates that the Realms is too leathal for young characters.
The first example breaks the fourth wall, most of the "rules" of good GMing, reaks of Monty Haul style play and is just plain silly besides, while the second can be easily accomplished by having the young adventurers undertake adventurers/projects that are appropriate to their level. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 17:15:12
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The Realms is a lethal place for first-time adventurers. The perennial story is of youths having to grow up and learn a lot of things very quickly, or perishing. Not-so-youths, too, as the Company of the Bright Spear taught us. Learning to run away, and to investigate before blundering in, are big parts of that.
Don Bingle's RPGA-cute use of Elminster there is definitely off. It may have been one of the lessons that taught Realms authors to be careful of, or steer clear of using, the Old Mage.
Because of their conclusion, I think Jim Butler's modules make more sense for mid-levels than low, and they're much more satisfying as part of an ongoing conflict over Daggerdale than as a sudden one-off. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2010 : 14:32:21
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| On the other hand, it is somewhat consistent with Ed's orgiginal use of Elminster, as a crotchy old man to pop in and made sarcastic comments about how the Knights were messing up ("Well, if you'd found that secret passage three rooms back you'd be out of this mess... but you didn't, so it looks like you're going to die! Isn't that fun?"). If you were going to use El in that capacity in your own game, or introduce a different high-powered character who takes an interest in the party for whatever reason, a scene like the dog training one isn't that bad of an intro. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2010 : 09:52:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
On the other hand, it is somewhat consistent with Ed's orgiginal use of Elminster, as a crotchy old man to pop in and made sarcastic comments about how the Knights were messing up ("Well, if you'd found that secret passage three rooms back you'd be out of this mess... but you didn't, so it looks like you're going to die! Isn't that fun?"). If you were going to use El in that capacity in your own game, or introduce a different high-powered character who takes an interest in the party for whatever reason, a scene like the dog training one isn't that bad of an intro.
I don't know, its to much of a bad pun and not one made by Elminster himself. It would work if it was Fizban we were talking about though.
Another thing is that the whole "heal" thing was completely useless in a non-English campaign of course. I could have rewrote it into Elminster standing there jelling "play, play" which would have made the whole thing even more silly.
I have gone through the adventure once I think, but that was with a couple of mid-level characters and not under the tower itself; I seem to remmember it being fun though. |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2010 : 19:11:41
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It should work for you just fine. I ran it for 3.5 and all the player's liked it, so enjoy and good gaming to you and your group. 
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 02:58:51
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| The drow should be fine as is. If converting to 3E, it should take the PCs from 1st to 3rd level. Just give them their levels when they gain the XP, by the time they're 3rd, they can take on the drow. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 10:29:03
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quote:
Originally posted by froglegg
It should work for you just fine. I ran it for 3.5 and all the player's liked it, so enjoy and good gaming to you and your group.
John
Well, you have to remember different ability modifiers for male/female drow in AD&D....
As for OP's idea. I think it's a great way to tie in an old module with the newly published adventure. Frankly, it should be obvious... the same area... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Doc Filth
Seeker
55 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 14:25:13
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Thanks to all for the responses  .
It looks like this might be a going thing now (just a bit more persuading required for my group), so the next questions would be: Where can I find the most comprehensive timeline of Dales-related events since 1367? And would rolling things back to then have any effect on the 3rd Ed Feats, etc? |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 18:36:32
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| Grand History of the Realms, I'd guess. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2010 : 18:15:18
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A little bit of off-topic, but about tying-in two drow-related adventures. I don't want to start a new scroll just for an easy question.
What's the relationship between "Queen of the Spiders" (AD&D) [especially last part] and "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits" (3ed)? If there's none, how to tie them together? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Doc Filth
Seeker
55 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2010 : 12:14:31
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| Odd to see this has just been bumped - I've finally got a venue and a night sorted to start running this campaign. One experienced player and 4 n00bs - should be interesting. |
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"Beneath the Twisted Tower" as 3E starting-point?
