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Malanthius
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2003 : 16:04:59
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This is kind of a responce to elf friend's (okay okay, my bad, Sorry Night Elf!) post about letting your player characters loose in the modern day under realistic roleplaying.
Here goes, all kidding aside, has anyone ever run or been in a campaign where the pc's where actually pretending to be themselves but somehow really transported into a fantasy setting with all the abilities of the characters they designed but none of the memories other than their own modern ones?
Mal.
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"Oh, Do stop whining, It's not the End of the World. It's just the end of Your's." |
Edited by - Malanthius on 24 Aug 2003 00:31:04
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 04:00:23
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Gee, Guardians of the Flame, anyone?  (Of course, the ones in that story who were in-depth roleplayers ended up with some of the memories and personality of their characters . . . .)
I've toyed with the basic idea, I admit. However, I liked the idea of a modern-day guy from an Earth without D&D better. I liked the concept of a character who was exploring a world that the reader knows all about, but is completely new to him/her. That's how I do most of my fanfics. I use the character's point of view to explore the familiar (to the reader) world in a new (to the reader) way.
Take something like that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where they find the cryogenically preserved near-corpses and end up with three 20th century humans. I thought that episode was underdone, and while I really wasn't thinking of it when I started, I've ended up with a Star Trek: Voyager fanfic that's in the same vein. Only now, instead being about the Star Trek characters finding a couple of present-day humans, it's about a couple of present-day humans who try to adjust to life on a lone starship, 60,000 lightyears and a few centuries from everything they have ever known, except each other.
Oops. Sounds like I slipped into an advertising mode there. Don't know why, since this story isn't releaseable yet, and this is far from the place to do it . . . .
Anyway, sometime I'd like to make a character for an FR game that falls into this sort of story. I suppose he'd have to be a fighter (a Duelist-type character would be the easiest, I suppose) or a low-level monk. I suppose you could explain him becoming a sorcerer by way of the infusing of energy of the transfer, but that one sounds too . . . contrived. Unless he was considered multi-classed by that.
Or perhaps he ends up like a possessing spirit, like the character of Jim in Dickson's SF&F classic, The Dragon and the George. Then you could explain the supernatural aspects of the class as memories and knowledge left over by the previous tenant -- assuming that first mind is gone in the first place.
Hmm. Well, I'd need to find a DM who doesn't mind such absurdly non-canon crossover material like that before I even think of using such a character. It would be an interesting role-play though, wouldn't you think? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 10:36:34
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Very interesting indeed Bookwyrm.
I have also tinkered with this idea from time to time, although having other players who wish to explore this type of campaign has allows been the one major obstacle.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 10:43:33
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Although in a similar vein I once ran a d20 Modern campaign using this exact premise. It was an interesting experience for all involved (the strange thing about this is these are the same players who rejected the same idea Malanthius asked in his original post).
The campaign ran for several months and ended with most of the PC's deaths when they failed to cooperate in a major mission at the end of the game. If I remember correctly I think I was running the ADELE 14 adventure module, but I used material from current real-life political and economic trends to expand the module somewhat.
The players had only their own memories and current real-life abilities to work through the module, but the one thing that really stood in their way from really working well together (and the one major deviation from Mal's idea) was that I allowed them to choose their own alignments based on their own personalities. Needless to say it became quite messy at times... .
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Aug 2003 10:44:06 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 18:23:37
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| I have played adventures where the characters of a fantasy world get transported to MODERN times. I have also had adventures where the fantasy characters meet the 20th century version of themselves. But I don't think I would ever want to play an adventure where I play myself in a fantasy world. I don't need to roleplay myself. I never liked the idea. Nor would I run an adventure for players in that sort of scenario. I think people also forget to be one of the adventurer classes, you really have to be a bit more than average. I am sure I would be a good wizard if I was in that world, but I don't see many other classes that I can excel at. I'm certainly NOT a monk or a rogue, and I though I fence and swordfight, I am sure my career as a fighter would last about a week. Realistically the only one I can REALLY see myself is a DRUID or a Wizard. Iseem to have a type of animal empathy, and my skill set certainly is within the realm of the druid (besides the fact that I Walk through the woods like a truck. OF course I can always have NPC class of Commoner/expert (sage). Maybe I'd score some good levels there. Who knows but now I have to go to the gym and prove how even more unfighter strength of 16+ I am. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2003 : 18:59:10
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I just noticed, Malanthius -- it wasn't Elf Friend that said that, it was NightElf. Just thought I should point that out before one or the other took grand umbrage at that.
One thing that you would have to work out, in such a senario, is the difference in magic, like I said. And both types, really -- arcane and divine. Do the divine spellcasters loose their powers in other planes where their gods don't have power? Would a cleric of Mystra be able to use her powers on, say, Krynn?
Of course, such an issue would be more in tune with NightElf's question, having the party go to Earth instead of the other way around.
But this is a good question here: what about arcane magic? I know that it works in all the planes (at least generally speaking). What if, in this sort of story, the modern-day Earth character has the predisposition (by genetics or what-have-you, but that's beside the point) of being a sorcerer or bard . . . but magic is so hard to work on Earth that it's like trying to cast with your hands tied and your mouth gagged. Especially for the sorcerer, with that innate feel for the flow of magic; he'd know the patterns were there, but couldn't understand them (after all, magic doesn't exist) and can't muster the power to go through the actual casting. He can feel it, but it doesn't seem to work, no matter how hard he tries.
Then he comes to, say, Faerun . . . and suddenly it's so easy. Imagine the delight of this character, as he finds out that he wasn't just imagining things, he isn't crazy . . . and he can work magic.
But it brings up an interesting thought. Would the effort he put into it make him stronger in a world like that of Toril? Could he cast more times a day than normal for a sorcerer? Or are his spells more potent? Did all that effort build up his magical 'muscles' in some way?
Even that aside, it would be a very interesting character. Not only do you have to wonder of being in a new world, not only can you see magic, but suddenly you can make magic as well. This would be a great kind of thing for a newbie, since you don't have to pretend your character has knowledge that you don't have, in so far as the campaign world goes. It would also be good for the experienced player, as both a new twist and a challenge (after playing 'native' characters, would this sort of thing be hard to switch to?).
Here's another thing. What if, say, a Christian priest was dropped there? God is the God of all creation, so He should be in Faerun as well. The question, though, is not so much "Why's He doing things differently?" as "Will God grant this guy some spells?" I've thought many times about this. Imagine a missionary in Faerun, trying to convert worshipers of the local gods. It would be difficult, I think. As in, good-role-playing-concept difficult.
Of course, those Jehova's Witnesses would be swordbait. Heck, I find them horrible. We had one using a megaphone on the campus last year.  Not the way you want to go about it, dufus. 
Anyway, back to the issue. I think that these two sorts of characters are quite interesting. I had thought up a story concept (no real plot yet) where something similar happened. However, it involved an alternate Earth where D&D rules work. In it, God had been granting spells to the Hebrews. He still does, but the Christians are more powerful. (They have the 3e domain concept.) True Muslim clerics are rarer, but they're there. Druids can either serve God or be pagans. Satan grants powers as well, but satanic clerics are rare and not usually powerful. (And divine magic in general isn't as common as on Faerun.)
It's an interesting idea. I particularly had fun trying to match up saints to domains, considering them divine-rank 0 for purposes of D&D terminology (though they are far from gods, of course). I couldn't really do it properly, since things are so different. But it was fun. All I wanted was just to see which orders would take to what domains; Christians have access to all non-evil domains, but Augustinians would tend toward Knowledge, and Fransicans would of course have the Animal domain. St. Michael would be obviously associated with War, St. Gabriel with Travel, and so on and so forth. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 00:13:45
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Bookwyrm if you haven't already, you should read MAGIC IN THE MIDDLE AGES by Richard Kieckhefer. This is not a hokey new age book, but an academic book about the cultural effects of magic in the middle ages, and the argumetns about the magic. Great book by Cambridge Press.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Malanthius
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 00:34:27
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I guess the real reason why I wanted that kind of a campaign would be to actually see how one of those munchkin idiots would interact with faeruian people, namely just how much of his "knowledge" would be relevant, seeing wether or not a Given type of dragon had the same kind of weaknesses, or this set of ruins was supposed to be there, or wether or not that "weakling" npc posted in every dungeon magazine and memorized by aforementioned munckin was actually as weak. You could really mess with someone's head this way.  
Mal. |
"Oh, Do stop whining, It's not the End of the World. It's just the end of Your's." |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 06:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Bookwyrm if you haven't already, you should read MAGIC IN THE MIDDLE AGES by Richard Kieckhefer. This is not a hokey new age book, but an academic book about the cultural effects of magic in the middle ages, and the argumetns about the magic. Great book by Cambridge Press.
Thanks. I'll see if I can look it up. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 10:12:41
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Mournblade said -
quote:
Bookwyrm if you haven't already, you should read MAGIC IN THE MIDDLE AGES by Richard Kieckhefer.
I can't believe I over looked this book now, thanks for the suggestion Mournblade.
Bookwyrm said -
quote:
Do the divine spellcasters loose their powers in other planes where their gods don't have power? Would a cleric of Mystra be able to use her powers on, say, Krynn?
That is entirely dependent more upon what cosmology and outline of the planes a particular setting is using. For example the Realms use a completely different cosmology than D&D 3e standard.
This is the same for Krynn now as well. A Mystran cleric would have no access to any of her divine powers and spells if she somehow found her way to that world.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Malanthius
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 14:40:53
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quote:
That is entirely dependent more upon what cosmology and outline of the planes a particular setting is using. For example the Realms use a completely different cosmology than D&D 3e standard.
This is the same for Krynn now as well. A Mystran cleric would have no access to any of her divine powers and spells if she somehow found her way to that world.
But generally speeking a resident deity with a similar domain to the prior spell providor is more than willing to take on a new servant. :)
Mal. |
"Oh, Do stop whining, It's not the End of the World. It's just the end of Your's." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 16:02:59
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No that would not happen. Although it seems very logical to think so, D&D often strays far from the path of true logic.
Post War of Souls, things now work very differently in regards to both divine and arcane magics on Krynn. The Mystran cleric would have no comprehension of the deities that populate the heavens of Krynn, and can therefore not have access to the deity's power. Plus, add to the fact that Paladine has now chosen to take mortal form and renounce his deity powers, and Takhisis is now dead, it would seem to suggest that the followers of these former deities can now no longer access that particular power. Also the portfolios of these deities have not been picked up by any of the other powers.
If on the other hand, most of the 3e campaign settings still all ran under a unified planar cosmology much like the one presented in Manual of the Planes, then any cleric of any faith - no matter which Material Plane he/she visited - would be able to access the powers of his/her deity.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Malanthius
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 : 18:22:04
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Damnation Sage,
Your going to force me to go out and buy the Dragonlance campaign setting just so i can keep up with you aren't you?
Mal. |
"Oh, Do stop whining, It's not the End of the World. It's just the end of Your's." |
Edited by - Malanthius on 24 Aug 2003 18:23:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2003 : 12:29:05
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That's really not necessary. I can provide a summary of the seven-line paragraph if you are that interested.
Alternatively, just go out to your local bookstore and purchase a copy of Dragons of a Vanished Moon (although make sure it is the hardcover version, as the paperback will not have what I am about to talk about), book III of the 'War of Souls' trilogy. This book has a nice 20+ page appendix detailing the overall structure of the Krynnish cosmology, from before the First Age right up to the post-War of Souls world. It has lots of interesting information, written by Tracy Hickman himself.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2003 : 16:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I just noticed, Malanthius -- it wasn't Elf Friend that said that, it was NightElf. Just thought I should point that out before one or the other took grand umbrage at that.
I'm cool. |
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Save faerun from the futurists...
