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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 15:11:10
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I know this is kind of a moot point, but I was promised Forgotten Realms Content in the Dragon Magazine. (I was also promised flying cars but...) I don't think I've seen any new FR content for a while in the Dragon. Maybe I'm just missing it. Anyone know if I'm wrong on this?
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"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 16:00:17
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| There are FR articles in the new Dragon Magazines, I guess you missed 'em. Also check out Dungeon for more FR content. |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 16:02:44
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| When they stoped printing Dungeon/Dragon I stopped getting them. That move by WOTC ticked me off even more than 4th ed. Although I'm not sure if it ticked me off more than the Spellplague, but it's close. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 16:15:18
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| Well, I'm looking more in the last 5 months. I saw the stuff right after the "FR" books came out, and the one article for The Sage, but I don't recall seeing anything lately. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 20:28:26
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If that's the kind of support the setting's going to get until it gets phased out, it's not going to grow. Then again, given the platform: How is it supposed to?
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 21:42:54
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Well, we do keep trying . . . and I for one would love to see some of you learned sages pitch some more articles their way.
Why isn't the impulse to build something one likes, but rather to complain about what one doesn't?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 23:02:38
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your work or the work of your colleagues, rather the business model the Realms fell victim to. If there was actual support of the setting equal to the support of former editions as far as detail, scope and applicability are concerned - regardless of the way the material gets distributed -, I'd still bemoan the loss of our beloved Old Realms, but at least there'd be a successor setting with a chance of long-term survival, development and growth. But with a few snippets here and there in a digital magazine I see little hope for the setting's future, that's all.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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ajfurst
Acolyte
Australia
21 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2010 : 11:01:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your work or the work of your colleagues, rather the business model the Realms fell victim to. If there was actual support of the setting equal to the support of former editions as far as detail, scope and applicability are concerned - regardless of the way the material gets distributed -, I'd still bemoan the loss of our beloved Old Realms, but at least there'd be a successor setting with a chance of long-term survival, development and growth. But with a few snippets here and there in a digital magazine I see little hope for the setting's future, that's all.
Zorro
If you were an Old Realms fan (of which I am) I agree 100%. The Realms growing at a regular pace with articles, accessories, boxed sets, regional/themed books as well as novels made the Realms the living breathing world it was IMO.
Think of it from WOTC's point of view though (flawed as it is) and it makes perfect sense. If you jump forward a hundred years, kill of all the high powered characters that 'wrecked' the dozens of novels they weren't in  - basically making it a clean slate anyone can jump into without feeling 'intimidated' (the lack of actually hearing anyone staying away because of this is for a different discussion), then the last thing you are going to do is start releasing a bunch of content, that could just repeat the 'problem' of the Old Realms 5 years down the track if there were a bunch of 4th edition boxed sets, regional books etc. That mythical online role playing gamer who is jumping ship won't do it if they can't be fully up to date in 5 minutes.
My hat goes off to Brian, Erik, Ed and those who can get new FR stuff past the guardians at WOTC. I'd imagine that having to have new ideas and hitting a writers block is less frustrating then probably having a bunch of ideas / products you'd love to get out there, but can't/aren't allowed to. |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 08:13:06
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| Brian, I appreciate the info. I'll have to go back over those and look through those "issues". |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 22:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ajfurst
The Realms growing at a regular pace with articles, accessories, boxed sets, regional/themed books as well as novels made the Realms the living breathing world it was IMO.
Very true, indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by ajfurst
Think of it from WOTC's point of view though (flawed as it is) and it makes perfect sense. If you jump forward a hundred years, kill of all the high powered characters that 'wrecked' the dozens of novels they weren't in - basically making it a clean slate anyone can jump into without feeling 'intimidated' (the lack of actually hearing anyone staying away because of this is for a different discussion), then the last thing you are going to do is start releasing a bunch of content, that could just repeat the 'problem' of the Old Realms 5 years down the track if there were a bunch of 4th edition boxed sets, regional books etc. That mythical online role playing gamer who is jumping ship won't do it if they can't be fully up to date in 5 minutes.
Why, of course, WotC's strategy does make sense. It's their alibi reasons I loathe, and the fact they chose a distribution model that lets them milk the revenue for all it's worth while having the lowest possible expenses, thereby accepting that this venue will kill off the setting (or rather, what's left of it) in the long run. Every business cares about the bottom line, that's understood - but few businesses do it so blatantly. But hey, they're WotC, so they get away with it. They get away with everything, as usual.
quote:
Originally posted by ajfurst
My hat goes off to Brian, Erik, Ed and those who can get new FR stuff past the guardians at WOTC. I'd imagine that having to have new ideas and hitting a writers block is less frustrating then probably having a bunch of ideas / products you'd love to get out there, but can't/aren't allowed to.
Funny how everything we love about the setting is allegedly bad, and that it seems to go without saying that the designers have to get quality work past the bean-counters, isn't it? By the way, I hated most of what I heard about the revamped setting. Only when I saw Brian's Cormyr article, I thought, 'Hey, that looks promising; maybe it's not all bad.' But considering that I disagree strongly with the philosophy underlying the new edition, and that I think that 90 % of the changes are for the worse, giving WotC my money is out of the question.
To get back on topic from which we might have strayed a little: Although there was much material about the Realms I didn't like (I fell in love with the OGB and developed the setting myself from that starting point because much of what came after wasn't my cup of tea, to be honest), I always wished the Realms a long life. It was exciting to develop my own version of the Realms parallel to the official one and looking for ways to reconcile the two. But since I cannot possibly accept the New Realms as a future version of the Old Realms - many of the ideas and concepts are just too bad, and knowing why they were made, and that it had nothing to do with "repairing" the setting's shortcomings, doesn't exactly make it easier -, I can't bring myself to care that its days are numbered. No advertising, no new supplements in the FLGSs to bring in fresh blood, just a vague "pay, and then you'll find out what we're gonna give you" online distribution in the form of maybe an article per month... it just seems so obvious that WotC doesn't seem to want any setting to survive. Their "one setting per year" and "back then you were FR, Eberron, Dark Sun players - now we want you to be D&D players" strategies leave little doubt as to their intentions. I'm a little astonished that this doesn't get mentioned as often as I'd have thought.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Neil Bishop
Learned Scribe
Singapore
100 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 04:37:42
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What I don't understand is why a thread about what FR content there is very quickly accumulates posts to criticise 4E and the Realms for 4E. Surely there are enough threads here of all places to satisfy the non-4E crowd?
I'm really looking forward to the upcoming article on Vaasa in part because I am hoping for a map on par with the Moonsea North map from Monuments of the Ancients in Dungeon 170. |
Regards
NXB |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 04:40:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Well, we do keep trying . . . and I for one would love to see some of you learned sages pitch some more articles their way.
I'm presently in the pitching process again, actually. With a new idea I had for a submission. Still waiting for a possible response.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 05:27:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Well, we do keep trying . . . and I for one would love to see some of you learned sages pitch some more articles their way.
I'm presently in the pitching process again, actually. With a new idea I had for a submission. Still waiting for a possible response.
It's been suggested that I pitch something to Dragon... And though it is tempting (especially considering who suggested it), I'm rather unsure about it. I'd love to have my name in print, especially with official content -- but at the same time, this would be going along with something I strenuously disagree with (It's a gripe about the current business model, and has nothing to do with 4E). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Jan 2010 05:28:35 |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 13:30:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Neil Bishop
What I don't understand is why a thread about what FR content there is very quickly accumulates posts to criticise 4E and the Realms for 4E. Surely there are enough threads here of all places to satisfy the non-4E crowd?
I just wanted to explain why I think that the current output of new FR content won't grow. It was not my intention to derail the thread. If you feel I did, I apologize.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 14:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
I just wanted to explain why I think that the current output of new FR content won't grow.
Zorro
Based on that line of thinking then any campaign setting that comes out for the 4E line cannot grow either for each setting is receiving the same amount of published material: 1 Campaign Guide, 1 Player's Guide, and 1 adventure set in that setting. That's it for every setting. Additional information will probably all be passed along the lines of D&DI with the exception of the Annual Dragon Issue being printed.
But I do wish they would print some sort of collective grouping of all the D&DI articles related specifically to the Forgotten Realms into one book each year. That way people without a subscription wouldn't have to purchase one and still gain some extreamly useful information about this beloved setting.
Also, I'd like to see more famous dungeons based on the Forgotten Realms and their many, many wondrous places of death and intrigue OR see some sort of conversion of previous FR adventures into the new setting like City of the Spider Queen in 4E. That would definitly be something I'd purchase in a second. |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 15:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Based on that line of thinking then any campaign setting that comes out for the 4E line cannot grow either for each setting is receiving the same amount of published material
Exactly. Since campaign settings sell better than additional supplements, it makes sense to concentrate on publishing a "disposable" setting per year and be done with it. If that's the best thing that could happen to the respective setting in question is, of course, another matter.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 16:57:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Based on that line of thinking then any campaign setting that comes out for the 4E line cannot grow either for each setting is receiving the same amount of published material: 1 Campaign Guide, 1 Player's Guide, and 1 adventure set in that setting. That's it for every setting. Additional information will probably all be passed along the lines of D&DI with the exception of the Annual Dragon Issue being printed.
But I do wish they would print some sort of collective grouping of all the D&DI articles related specifically to the Forgotten Realms into one book each year. That way people without a subscription wouldn't have to purchase one and still gain some extreamly useful information about this beloved setting.
Also, I'd like to see more famous dungeons based on the Forgotten Realms and their many, many wondrous places of death and intrigue OR see some sort of conversion of previous FR adventures into the new setting like City of the Spider Queen in 4E. That would definitly be something I'd purchase in a second.
I'm total agreement with the second paragraph. I didn't realize that there was still an annual printed Dragon. That might be something to look at. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Edited by - dwarvenranger on 10 Jan 2010 16:58:40 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 17:04:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
But I do wish they would print some sort of collective grouping of all the D&DI articles related specifically to the Forgotten Realms into one book each year. That way people without a subscription wouldn't have to purchase one and still gain some extreamly useful information about this beloved setting.
I'd go for that... My main reason for not getting a subscription is that I don't want to pay for content I have no use for, and the only way to subscribe is to get everything.
I know the magazines were originally like that, but the difference was that a magazine was a physical product, and there was no way to pick and choose without destroying the product. With it being web-only, they could easily set up a system where people could either buy individual articles, or they could subscribe to just specific areas of the site. Until they do something like that, they're not getting money from me.
I've been told that even if you get something you wrote posted on the Wizards site, you still can't see it unless you have a subscription -- so a non-subscribing author/contributor wouldn't be able to see their own work without giving money to Wizards. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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New FR content?
