| Author |
 Topic  |
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 04:17:35
|
Hi again, all. I bring you the words of Ed of the Greenwood, in reply to Brace's query, above:
Hi, Brace. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you've misread the relevant passage in THE SEVEN SISTERS. The Simbul has never vowed to destroy Thay.
The sentence you're referencing begins: "One day, she vows, Thay WILL be destroyed, and she will call together..." and goes on to outline what The Simbul has vowed to do, which is remake the Thayan lands into a new forest, with the cooperation of Rashemen and other neighbours. Her vow is to (try to) create a new woodland realm for elves, after Thay finally falls, NOT to destroy Thay herself.
The Simbul (correctly) views the government and social structure of Thay as one that cannot last (it eats away at itself), and that their aims and behaviour will inevitably lead them into conflict with more and more powerful foes...until they come up against someone (Larloch, if no one else; Halruaa, still very much part of the Realms at the time The Simbul said this) who WILL destroy them. After all, Rashemen has fought them to a standstill, and so has The Simbul herself, both successfully preserving their smaller, less populous realms against Thayan invasions.
The Simbul lashes out murderously against individual Red Wizards because of her uncontrollable (remember, she's less than sane) anger against them for their repeated attacks on Aglarond and other realms, their enslaving of others, and their continuing attacks on non-Red Wizard wizards and sorcerers everywhere. However, she's simply too busy carrying out the tasks Mystra sets for her to do much more than rush home to defend Aglarond, race off again, rush back again, and so on. The mundane business of ruling frankly bores her, and she has utterly no interest in becoming a tyrant, expanding Aglarond, or conquering Thay.
Mystra has expressly ordered The Simbul NOT to lead invasions of Thay or frontal attacks on Red Wizards within Thay (except when they get in her way while she's trying to carry out an assignment as a Chosen), and specifically forbidden her to kill various Thayan individuals (including most of the Zulkirs, Szass Tam included); hints of this have appeared in published Realmslore, though they've been downplayed in recent years to allow novel authors a "freer" hand when writing about Thay and Szass. Alassra isn't pleased about this, but she's a Chosen first and a Queen second and a free agent very much third. :}
As to WHY Mystra is pursuing this policy regarding Thay: that's something apparently only She and Azuth know, and her Chosen only suspect (though they correctly deduce that the encouragement of the Art [=magic] is bound up with it). I can't say more on this last matter, due to the NDAs I've signed.
Now, I certainly grant that it's easy to interpret what I wrote in THE SEVEN SISTERS as The Simbul saying SHE would destroy Thay. My original text read: "One day, she vows, after Thay has fallen, she will . . ." but the editor changed it deliberately to give DMs more leeway in playing The Simbul THIS way or THAT way in their own campaign (and that IS what we're doing in these sourcebooks; giving DMs and players maximum choices and options, and minimum "thou shalt do it this way" dictation), and as a jesting reference to the historical "Carthage must be destroyed!" speeches (you'll remember that the orator who made those speeches never took personal direct part in fighting against Carthage, according to the historical record).
Yes, she IS capable of razing Thay. In doing so, however, she would destroy herself, bring down the Weave in that immediate area and cause deadly wild magic all around the dead magic zone thus created, weaken Mystra, and damage many lives and psyches (probably including those of other Chosen), allowing others (Larloch, et al) to rise up into the power vacuum or upset balance of power. It's like having a nuclear bomb: you CAN use it, but the consequences are usually so disastrous that you DON'T use it.
Yes, Alassra is insane. Yet she's not THAT insane, because Mystra and Azuth DO watch over their Chosen and hurl other Chosen at them if they go seriously off the rails (see: Sammaster, some of the argument scenes between Elminster and Khelben I've written into my novels, and so on).
I hope this helps clear matters up. Feel free to pose more questions, any time.
So saith Ed. Who is hard at work on a middle-of-tale chapter in the 2009 Spin A Yarn tale.
love,
THO
|
 |
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 04:36:44
|
| That is great insight into the Simbul, nice to hearvhow she "ticks". Thank Ed for us all Lady. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 07:29:48
|
She tried to single-handedly invade HELL (and nearly succeeded)!
Was her sanity, or lack there of, ever in doubt?
What was the name of TLC's (that girl pop group) second album?
"Crazy, Sexy, Cool"
yeah... thats the Simbul. 
After meeting her, Halaster is quoted as saying "Damn! She's nuts!"
Okay... that never really happened... funny though...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 14:16:37
|
| Dear Ed & Lady THO...does the Elven Court have an Elvish Name???????? If so what would they Tel-Quessir call it? |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 15:19:55
|
I've a couple questions to add to my ever-growing queue...
You mentioned recently that even with Chosen, the silver fire eventually burns them out... And we know that Mystra has had many human servitors who wound up in various non-human forms. So have any of Mystra's Chosen wound up in a non-human form that would not burn out, like a construct or something? Or is there something about the silver fire that requires it being in a living body? What about a draconic Chosen?
On a similar note, we've previously discussed mages escaping death without resorting to undeath. Have there been any mages who went the route of putting their minds into constructs? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 15:44:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
On a similar note, we've previously discussed mages escaping death without resorting to undeath. Have there been any mages who went the route of putting their minds into constructs?
As an addendum to Wooly's question here... I'd like to add several more to my own almost-infinite pile:-
Ed, I'm curious about the methods you might have detailed regarding how these mages may have placed their minds in artificial construct forms? Were they simply arcane techniques, or something more inclined toward the psionic disciplines? Or are we talking about something entirely new? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Jun 2010 15:46:32 |
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 18:54:26
|
Hi again, all.
Wooly, re. this: "Have there been any mages who went the route of putting their minds into constructs?"
Yes. More than a few that I know of, from play in the "home" Realms campaign. I'm hoping Ed will spill some details soon, in proper reply to you.
Sage, the moving-your-mind-into-constructs lore that I know about was something Ed wrote for VOLO'S GUIDE TO ALL THINGS MAGICAL and then dropped from his turnover to make proper space for all the magic items Eric Boyd was doing such a superb job of detailing and updating. Like becoming a lich, the various methods were all procedurtes involving several new spells (in the same way that Nulathoe's Ninemen is a "special" spell for preparing undead). Again, we await Ed's lore-sharing . . .
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 21:35:34
|
That bit about Thay over-reaching was really interesting to read, especially Ed's off-hand mention of Halruaa. I'd like to ask a couple follow-up questions, if I may, because I've never seriously considered an all-out war between those two magic nations.
1) Is a war between Thay and Halruaa something Ed thinks is likely, in the fullness of time (and assuming the Spellplague doesn't happen)?
2) If so, what would be the likely trigger? Thayan raids for Halruaan magic seems the most obvious, but are there others? And how far in the future would such a trigger happen?
3) From the phrasing, Ed seems to think Halruaa would be the fairly clear-cut winner. As I've always thought Thay had a rather significant population advantage, not to mention slaves and centuries of experience in warfare with its neighbors, I'd be interested to hear his reasoning behind this. Obviously Halruaa has the edge in cohesion, both in a stable monarch and fewer evil/backstabbing wizards, but would this be enough to offset Thay's numbers?
4) If such a war was to break out, how does Ed think it might progress? Both nations have rather impressive defensive terrain barriers which are eventually going to have to be overcome. What would be the reaction of neighboring lands? (Aglarond, Rahshemen, the Great Rift?)
5) Finally, if Halruaa does win, how much of Halruaa would be left?
This could become a fascinating "alternate setting," for a campaign set in Halruaa, much like the great Fall of Myth Drannor module, and I'm really curious to hear Ed's thoughts on it. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 22:07:16
|
Don't want to quote anyone, but I will third the Sage's and Wooly's line of questioning - I am MOST interested in this type of lore. {insert salivating smiley here}
Krash and I had worked-out some things about Raumathar constructs, and had theorized that they had developed a type that could actually absorb 'spirit energy', which in essence is what an outer-planer being is (when on the Prime material).
Logic dictates that this is magitech they backwards-engineered from the the Imaskari, and apparently developed by the Shou interlopers; there is much lore about soul-infused constructs (Golems) in the Kara-Tur material. The Copper Demon of Tros was quite obviously one-such construct-bound being.
Which is what also lead several of us fleshing-out the Utter East to draw the conclusion that the Bloodforges were a related magitech (note the geographic proximity), in that they required a bit of 'soul energy' to power them (they created Golems and also caused 'corruption' in those nearby).
Anyhow, sorry for my usual musings/ramblings - I would really love to hear Ed's take on all of this. I'm fascinated by the concept of powering spells and constructs with 'life-force'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 27 Jun 2010 22:11:21 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 02:14:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Sage, the moving-your-mind-into-constructs lore that I know about was something Ed wrote for VOLO'S GUIDE TO ALL THINGS MAGICAL and then dropped from his turnover to make proper space for all the magic items Eric Boyd was doing such a superb job of detailing and updating. Like becoming a lich, the various methods were all procedurtes involving several new spells (in the same way that Nulathoe's Ninemen is a "special" spell for preparing undead). Again, we await Ed's lore-sharing . . .
love to all,
THO
Neato! Thank you milady. And 'tis interesting that you mentioned Volo's Guide to All Things Magical... because I was actually thinking that lore like this probably should've been included in that tome. 
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 03:46:49
|
Hi again, all.
Hoondatha, your queries have all gone off to Ed. Re this one: "3) From the phrasing, Ed seems to think Halruaa would be the fairly clear-cut winner. As I've always thought Thay had a rather significant population advantage, not to mention slaves and centuries of experience in warfare with its neighbors, I'd be interested to hear his reasoning behind this. Obviously Halruaa has the edge in cohesion, both in a stable monarch and fewer evil/backstabbing wizards, but would this be enough to offset Thay's numbers?"
I have these comments:
Yes, Ed definitely thinks Halruaa would win (I know this from discussions about where Thay DIDN'T DARE put trade enclaves). Yes, they're numerically inferior to Thay, but (from my peeks at Ed's private, never-published notes) the Halruaans have far more magic (spells and accomplished practitioners of the Art who are used to experimenting rather than "casting under orders"), far more magic items, and far more Netherese battle-magic (large-scale spellwebs and flying constructs and "blast-globes" [I don't know precisely what Ed meantr by blast-globes, but that's what he had written down in what I did see]) long hidden away and "secured" by family patriarchs and matriarchs), that they could hurl at any serious threat to Halruaa.
In short, once Halruaa was alert, the Thayans wouldn't know what hit them. 
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 28 Jun 2010 03:49:32 |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 04:27:21
|
blast globes
think glass like globes in appearance that when you chuck them at yon army of skeletons it goes boom and blows up bone heads.
|
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 04:28:07
|
I think that the putting ones mind in a construct
would have to be similar in application to the
3.x spell that allowed a mage to "awaken" a construct. |
|
|
|
GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 06:22:55
|
To Sage and Wooly, I would point out that Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, itself of likely dubious canonicity, did have a red mage at the academy of transfiguration who transferred his consciousness into a golem (more to allow himself to work his magic forge, which his golem body's resistance protected him from, than for any agelessness it might have provided).
And to echo sfdragon, blastglobes are referenced in the original game as well, being grenade-or-greater level explosives, a crate of which was capable of clearing out a rockslide in a mountain pass.
Which brings me to a query, actually.
What is Mr. Greenwood's stance on the canonicity of the video games? According to the Forgotten Realms wiki, Baldur's Gate, the video game, is technically canon through its novelizations, which I would suspect to be true of any of the games which have been similarly adapted.
But what about the ones that haven't? Did Myrkul canonically create a spirit eater curse in Rashemen to sustain his existence outside the Crown of Horns, only to be obliterated by that same curse? Did Waterdeep actually come under siege by Mephistopheles himself?
I always obsess over canon in the games I run, so it's something I've always wondered. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
Edited by - GoCeraf on 28 Jun 2010 06:26:27 |
|
|
|
Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 10:05:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
To Sage and Wooly, I would point out that Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, itself of likely dubious canonicity, did have a red mage at the academy of transfiguration who transferred his consciousness into a golem (more to allow himself to work his magic forge, which his golem body's resistance protected him from, than for any agelessness it might have provided).
And to echo sfdragon, blastglobes are referenced in the original game as well, being grenade-or-greater level explosives, a crate of which was capable of clearing out a rockslide in a mountain pass.
Which brings me to a query, actually.
What is Mr. Greenwood's stance on the canonicity of the video games? According to the Forgotten Realms wiki, Baldur's Gate, the video game, is technically canon through its novelizations, which I would suspect to be true of any of the games which have been similarly adapted.
But what about the ones that haven't? Did Myrkul canonically create a spirit eater curse in Rashemen to sustain his existence outside the Crown of Horns, only to be obliterated by that same curse? Did Waterdeep actually come under siege by Mephistopheles himself?
I always obsess over canon in the games I run, so it's something I've always wondered.
Good question. The Wailing Death in Neverwinter is canon though, referenced in GHotR. So it makes me ask about the rest of the game. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 13:17:35
|
Blast globes actually show up in Shadows of Doom, and yes, they're a lot like really fragile grenades. And, IIRC, Ed mentioned here at some point that the Zhent who's using them got his position in the Zhentarim because he was able to reverse-engineer them from Netherese examples. So that may be what Ed's talking about. On the other hand, there could be even scarier versions the Netherese created, but that haven't been seen in canon yet.
THO, thanks for sharing, and I look forward to hearing was Ed has to say. I'm beginning to think that it's a very good thing that Halruaa is so isolationistic... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 28 Jun 2010 13:19:22 |
|
|
|
Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
746 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 18:46:27
|
There's also a reference in The North and Volo's Guide to the North about the Many-Starred Cloak making blastglobes for the Neveren militia. Volo's goes a little further with the following footnote (partially quoted):
"Blastglobes are bronze-hued glass spheres that are hurled in battle. Treat them as grenade-like missiles. They burst on impact for 2d8 damage."
Edit: Is there anything Ed can tell us about Wizbane Square in Suzail? |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
|
Edited by - Kyrene on 28 Jun 2010 20:41:48 |
|
|
|
Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 01:20:45
|
Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
What is Mr. Greenwood's stance on the canonicity of the video games? According to the Forgotten Realms wiki, Baldur's Gate, the video game, is technically canon through its novelizations, which I would suspect to be true of any of the games which have been similarly adapted.
The Baldur's Gate novels weren't particularly good, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that passionately hates them for how badly they adapted the game series. The only things the books had in common with the games is that they shared titles, and some characters had the same names (despite being VERY different). Also, they had a very unlikable protagonist that I found very difficult to relate to.
About the only thing they DID do was give the Realms it's first (I believe) openly gay character in a novel. (And then promptly killed her off, yay... not.  )
quote:
But what about the ones that haven't? Did Myrkul canonically create a spirit eater curse in Rashemen to sustain his existence outside the Crown of Horns, only to be obliterated by that same curse? Did Waterdeep actually come under siege by Mephistopheles himself?
I always obsess over canon in the games I run, so it's something I've always wondered.
I'm pretty sure games without novels are not canon, since games are not canon. This is because there's one BIG problem with adapting games to canon - you immediately alienate anyone who played the game by setting a not-their-PC protagonist (typically a male one) and not-their-choices in stone. I think this is the reason why the Baldur's Gate novels failed so spectacularly, actually. Because they couldn't be true enough to the game, at least not without alienating anyone who took a different path through the game to the one they set in stone, they changed the story as to make it unrecognizable. But that still ticked fans of the game off, who bought the books thinking they were getting novelizations of the game, and got something else entirely.
The failure of the Baldur's Gate novelizations is probably the reason why Neverwinter Nights and its sequels never got novelizations (there was an anthology of short stories planned, I think, that never got published). |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 02:45:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
To Sage and Wooly, I would point out that Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, itself of likely dubious canonicity, did have a red mage at the academy of transfiguration who transferred his consciousness into a golem (more to allow himself to work his magic forge, which his golem body's resistance protected him from, than for any agelessness it might have provided).
There was also a female dwarf trapped inside a Golem in the comic series (although I couldn't tell you the name - I didn't read the comics, strangely enough). Anyhow, I suppose a very clever Lich could hide his phylactory in plain-site inside a servitor golem... but that isn't quite the same thing. didn't a Drow do that? {we need a head-scratching smiley}
Tan Chin was a Suel Lich (a term from the GH setting) - he was able to be immortal by transferring his 'essence' into a new host. Something like that occurred (quite by accident) to that Shoon Emperor too.
Ergo, we do have precedents of similar soul-transfers, so it should be possible. Makes me also wonder if anyone ever tried it with a dragon (why stop at just a Golem/Automaton?)
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
<snip> But what about the ones that haven't? Did Myrkul canonically create a spirit eater curse in Rashemen to sustain his existence outside the Crown of Horns, only to be obliterated by that same curse? Did Waterdeep actually come under siege by Mephistopheles himself?
That happened in an alternate reality... perhaps even on Abeir.... or Earth 2... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2010 02:49:09 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 03:10:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There was also a female dwarf trapped inside a Golem in the comic series (although I couldn't tell you the name - I didn't read the comics, strangely enough).
Her name was Minder. She was the inspiration for more than a couple of NPCs of mine, including one that's done the mind-in-a-golem trick.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Jun 2010 03:10:43 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 04:10:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
What is Mr. Greenwood's stance on the canonicity of the video games? According to the Forgotten Realms wiki, Baldur's Gate, the video game, is technically canon through its novelizations, which I would suspect to be true of any of the games which have been similarly adapted.
Well, I'm not Ed, but... the novels are canon -- so says WotC and the authors of the novels.
And, of course, the games cannot be considered wholly FR canon, as the author, Drew Karpyshyn says, "because of their multiple endings, the BG games can't be considered 'official' in the FR world."
The events of the Bhaalspawn saga as depicted in the novels are canon. We have an entire sourcebook dedicated to the novels -- Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II -- as well as the reference in Power of Faerūn, along with the characters from the novels being statd up in DRAGON #262 for 2e and the Bhaalspawn template for 3e in DRAGON #288. And Lost Empires of Faerūn.
WotC lists the novels as taking place in 1368 DR and 1369 DR. Jim Butler has also told us the events are canon in 2000 on the FR Mailing List. And finally, Rich Baker, Ed Greenwood and Ed Bonny have all confirmed this as well. For me, that grounds the novels, and only the novels, into the firm bedrock of Realms canon.
Re: the subject of FR canon for the Neverwinter Nights games... Undrentide was marked on one of the maps in Grand History. And the Wailing Death is canon now, given it's reference in Grand History also, under the 1372 DR entry. I don't recall there being an entry for "Hordes of the Underdark." And I remember Brian James suggesting that may be due to the ending of the expansion being difficult to canonise. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 05:26:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Heya,
The Baldur's Gate novels weren't particularly good, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that passionately hates them for how badly they adapted the game series. The only things the books had in common with the games is that they shared titles, and some characters had the same names (despite being VERY different). Also, they had a very unlikable protagonist that I found very difficult to relate to.
About the only thing they DID do was give the Realms it's first (I believe) openly gay character in a novel. (And then promptly killed her off, yay... not. )
I don't think it's possible for me to reconcile my seething hatred for Abdel Adrian or the helplessness of novel-Jaheira or the throwaway attitude of every-novel-other-character. Between the total loss of the series' humor and the unlikeablility of nearly every speaking character, the BG novels inspire more nerd rage in me than just about anything else in recent memory.
::Breathes::
These details as regards the canonicity of video games saddens me. I could see the original Neverwinter Nights working with each player's personal canon in comparison to official canon, because it's revealed in one of the expansions that the main character's contribution were downplayed due to a falling out with Lord Nasher.
Aside from that, though, I can't think of much. The games have disproportionately far-reaching consequences, considering how minor the characters within are compared to the greater Realms cast. It's hard to reconcile that. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
|
|
|
Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 08:18:55
|
Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, of course, the games cannot be considered wholly FR canon, as the author, Drew Karpyshyn says, "because of their multiple endings, the BG games can't be considered 'official' in the FR world."
Drew Karpyshyn wrote the Throne of Bhaal novel, the other two are credited to Phil Athans.
I think someone should have listened to Drew... ETA: Of course, I mean apply the same argument to the novels, and considered them just another optional path. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
Edited by - Zandilar on 29 Jun 2010 09:56:13 |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 12:48:29
|
| But the game campaigns can be considered partially true for some facts. For example, was there mention of drow attacks from Undermountain? Was there any mentioning of the Undead army coming from the same Undermountain? At least some facts could be true. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 13:47:15
|
THO/Ed,
How big a loss do you consider Halruua to be to Faerun Magical history and Magic users? What I mean is the loss of their art .....would it compare to anything we could equate to?(real world or FR) Something like the loss of the Library of Alexandria or would it be something like Atlantis, seem more legend than reality? Im just curious what of their magical "culture' and spellcraft survived or what legacy they left behind. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 15:38:06
|
Hi, Red Walker. I'd say that the loss of Halruaa is HUGE, but that the magnitude of the loss might well notr be fully appreciated across most of Faerun, because only those who visited Halruaa can truly appreciate it.
Halruaa wasn't just a "land with a lot of wizards, ruled by wizards" as most of the rest of the Realms would probably judge it, it was a land in which most of the small routines of daily life (washing, cooking, movement around the house of household sundries such as clothing, laundry, lighting, heating and cooling, even airflows) were "done by magic." Imagine the "automated house" of many sf stories; well, a fully-enchanted Halruaan domicile would work the same way, with "keyed" (attuned) inhabitants affecting the house around them with either command words or thoughts or both as they move about, live their domestic lives, etc. They also had spell-slates (iBook, anyone? Ed's slates were about the same size and shape) in most every household, onto which distant Halruaans could send brief written messages.
Halruaa didn't have large conventional armies, because it didn't need them. They could magically use wind as a weapon (in addition to skyships, puissant battle-spells, and battle automatons [which can be be blown up from afar by their directors, and so can serve as "walking bombs"]).
And yes, of COURSE they had weather control, and hence very abundant crop yields.
love,
THO |
|
|
|
Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 17:13:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Anyhow, I suppose a very clever Lich could hide his phylactory in plain-site inside a servitor golem... but that isn't quite the same thing. didn't a Drow do that? {we need a head-scratching smiley}
WARNING: SPOILER from WotSQ
The drow-Lich Dyrr hid his phylactery in the Spider Golem of his house's Temple to Lolth in one of the novel of WotSQ. Gromph Baerne destroyed it (with a greataxe combined with a well-placed Tenser's Transformation). |
Edited by - Kilvan on 30 Jun 2010 17:15:32 |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 20:40:05
|
| One quick question for Ed, THO, or anyone else who might know the answer. I was trying to describe a ring-shape in play recently and kept wanting to call it a "donut." For my future reference, are there places in Faerun that make ring-shaped pastries of some form or another that would be widely enough know that a character could use them to describe what something else looks like? And if so, what are they called. Would it be something like "a Sembian donut," or do they have specific names? Many thanks. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 20:48:33
|
As I recall, anything that had the FR logo was canon, even if it made no sense, new material replacing any prior print. When Ed speaks, what he says is canon, unless a print article with FR logo says something different. The only other conflict that can occur is if a source book, recent but not last item, should be considered canon. Not sure what is considered recent if dates conflict. In the end WotC decides what is canon and with some policy changes recently announced, it would appear not everything with the FR logo is know considered canon.
This of course leads to a question. What is now considered canon for FR? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 00:19:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Halruaa didn't have large conventional armies, because it didn't need them. They could magically use wind as a weapon (in addition to skyships, puissant battle-spells, and battle automatons [which can be be blown up from afar by their directors, and so can serve as "walking bombs"]).
Ooh, ooh, I wanna know more about the battle automata! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Questions for Ed Greenwood (2010)
Topic Locked
