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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 21:58:04
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Wow... that is bloody brilliant!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 22:06:29
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| And all it costs you is more posts in my Pools of Darkness thread. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 01:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
The mention of "Tyranthraxus" likely predates the fall of Anthraxus as Oinoloth however.
Perhaps. But it's fun to speculate, nonetheless. And the relationship of time between the planes and various game worlds hasn't always been so definitive, so it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that an entity named "Tyranthraxus" appeared in Realmspace before the fall of Anthraxus.
But I suppose that's just my usual rambling. I'm a fan of temporal situations whereupon effect can somtimes precede cause.  [Probably due to my love of determining just "when" the Dawn Cataclysm occurred in the timeline.]
quote:
Also, it's probably up for debate if other beings with a vested interest in the former Oinoloth (ie The Demented) would allow him to be used as a puppet in such a diminished form by a deity.
Of other deities, that's probably true. But I doubt most other non-divine beings would really have much of a choice.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Aug 2010 01:40:41 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 02:19:49
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I agree with the Shemster. I strongly discourage the association of Tyranthraxus with Anthraxus. Or Tyr for that matter. I have always thought that the name was evocative of "Tyrant," although whether that was intentional or not is debatable. Not sure if the word "Tyrant" would have any similar meaning in whatever language the name hails from.
If there is a connection, it might simply be that -ix, -ic, -us and -axus are common name endings in Yugoloth circles: Bubonix, Cholerix, Cerlic, Daru Ib Shamiq, Anthraxus, Diptherius, Mydianchlarus, Typhus etc. It could just be a passing similarity. Or even a common name. Maybe there are countless Yugoloths named "Anthraxus" or a similar variant, just as there are millions of Christophers, Johns, Jesuses, and Muhammeds in our world.
Or alternatively, Tyranthraxus might have been named after Anthraxus (in part) not sure if they select their own names or are given them by their masters. It could be he selected the name himself out of tribute or admiration for Anthraxus. Or then again, it could be a patronymic, it might mean "son of Anthraxus."
Lastly, it is possible that Anthraxus was his master at some point and that Anthraxus likes to name his underlings after himself in the way that the Judeo-Christian god (El) incorporated his name into that of many of the angels, such as "Gabriel" which means "Strength of God" and "Michael" which means "Like unto God" and so on. "Tyranthraxus" might therefore mean something like "Servant of Anthraxus," or "Bound to Anthraxus," or "Will of Anthraxus," or "Canker Sore of Anthraxus." Something that either signifies his subordination to Anthraxus, or something about his job as an agent of Anthraxus, or something nasty. Note that a lot of Yugoloths are named after diseaeses, and the "Tyr" part of his name might be some kind of disease like a pox or germ or growth, etc.
Anyway, I don't think there is any support in the lore for the idea that Tyranthraxus is Anthraxus or a Faerűnian avatar of Anthraxus. He seems to have been a possessor spirit for millennia.
I am still very partial to the idea that Tyranthraxus is actually a Yugoloth version of a Loumara (incorporeal race of possessor demons) if there is such a thing, he might have been created by Anthraxus to serve such a purpose. Or perhaps he even started out as converted Loumara who fell from the ranks of the Abyss and joined up with the 'Loths. Perhaps even joined up under, or at the behest of Anthraxus.
I think that could be an interesting story about how Anthraxus seduced a Loumara to join the Yugololoths, or maybe he was compelled or tricked in some fashion. Whatever his origin, I think there's probably a fascinating tale to be told. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 03:15:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Whatever his origin, I think there's probably a fascinating tale to be told.
Heh. You know, it just occurred to me that Tyranthraxus is said to be able to maintain himself in magical liquid should no host bodies be present. I'm wondering, now, whether Tyranthraxus, perhaps with an earlier form of his name [say, Tirantikus] was purposely desperate in allowing himself to be inhaled by Anthraxus, whereupon Tirantikus found his form sustained within the blood [itself, a magical liquid] of the ultroloth for a time. Much like an anthrax bacterial infection, Tirantikus later discovered a new host body, removed himself from Anthraxus, and started calling himself Tyranthraxus -- a form of "spiritual bacteria" that could "lord over" his victims like a tyrant.
[Just more rambling, really, while waiting for a program to compile.] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 12:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Whatever his origin, I think there's probably a fascinating tale to be told.
Heh. You know, it just occurred to me that Tyranthraxus is said to be able to maintain himself in magical liquid should no host bodies be present. I'm wondering, now, whether Tyranthraxus, perhaps with an earlier form of his name [say, Tirantikus] was purposely desperate in allowing himself to be inhaled by Anthraxus, whereupon Tirantikus found his form sustained within the blood [itself, a magical liquid] of the ultroloth for a time. Much like an anthrax bacterial infection, Tirantikus later discovered a new host body, removed himself from Anthraxus, and started calling himself Tyranthraxus -- a form of "spiritual bacteria" that could "lord over" his victims like a tyrant.
[Just more rambling, really, while waiting for a program to compile.]
I like this theory. I give it a hearty two thumbs up. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
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Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 16:37:38
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Very cool idea sage - not your classic 'high fantasy trope', and FR could use some more 'gritty fantasy' stuff like that.
As for Gray's idea: What if 'Tyr' means 'warrior' in some Fiendish/extra-planer tongue? However, it could have a thrall-like connotation as well - a warrior/defender who is forced into service. Maybe even something akin to enslaved holy soldiers, like the Mamluks of Middle-Eastern culture. Ergo, Tyr-Anthraxus would literally mean 'Holy servant of Anthraxus'.
That would fit both the Tyranthraxus concept and the deity Tyr.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Aug 2010 17:41:48 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 16:45:24
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I had the thought that Anthraxus has a true name which is not the one everyone knows him as...so having to use an assumed name, he chose Anthraxus simply because it was a disease...having no relation whatsoever between himself and the Possessing Spirit.
Meanwhile, the Tyrant Hraxus the Primordial escaped his imprisonment by shedding his flesh and becoming a Possessing Spirit.
EDIT: sorry...had another thought I forgot to put in there.
I began thinking of Hraxus when I thought of Haask and Hargut; just thought I would share where Tyrant Hraxus had his beginnings. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 25 Aug 2010 16:47:47 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 18:18:19
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Weird...I came here because it said Markus made a post...but nothing.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Similar? 
Its an amalgam of Tyr + Anthraxus. That's a whole lot more telling then the 'Tirantikus' thing.
Suddenly occurs to me that it could be the amalgam of Tyrant and Anthraxus. So, the name change would have happened when he bowed before Bane, God of Tyranny.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Wow... that is bloody brilliant!
Yes, yes it is... and I really like the Sage's theory as to the origins of the possessing spirit as well... I may be adopting some combination of these two... this scroll is one of many examples of what I love about Candlekeep.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<snip>I just thought of something funny - I picture Ao being a HUGE Lava lamp, and all the gods are that amorphous stuff inside. 
Seriously, this is brilliant... as far as metaphors go, anyway; I don't think I'd want to take the image too literally (else I'd probably have the late Graham Chapman show up at my door saying "Stop that! It's getting silly!"), but we all know that literalism is dangerous where the gods are concerned anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
EDIT: And getting back on-topic more, I think 'taint' is the best way to go with creatures working for a fiend, whatever its origins, and perfectly fits the title 'Twisted Ones'. You can have the Gnolls/Flinds be an Island of Dr. Moreau type scenario then, if you want (although broken ones are the perfect fit for that).
You could also use Broken Ones as cast-offs, until Tyranthraxus got what he wanted - the feral, Gnoll-like warriors he was hoping for (in the same way that Uruk-Hai were 'perfected' orcs).
Lots of ways to spin that.
This is brilliant too... I think I'll finish up my thoughts on the origins and ascension of the Dark Three and Torm before I get too involved in yet another project, so if anyone else has any ideas and gets there before I do, by all means go for it... and please share! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:47:31
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Hmmm. The Siege Malicious is said to change whomever sits upon it. So if we follow my earlier theory further, I wonder what fate the Anthraxus/Tyranthraxus temporary merger would've endured? Maybe it was the long term exposure to the throne that ultimately forced Tyranthraxus to leave the safety of Anthraxus's bloodstream. Or perhaps the Siege Malicious [I've always assumed it's somewhat sentient, with a hint of intelligence left over from the god slain by the yugoloths to form Khin-Oin] was intrigued by what it sensed within Anthraxus, and changed them both -- providing Tyranthraxus with abilities he didn't have before.
Or, rather, maybe Tyranthraxus possessed the ability to access the memories of the host creature before his merger with Anthraxus, but was slowly driven mad as the overwhelming responsibility of the Siege Malicious impacted upon his mind. Thus, the throne provided Tyranthraxus with the capability later noted in the Realmslore, which allowed him to place the consciousness of any host body he invades, in a kind of temporaral stasis -- giving the Possessing Spirit full control of the host creature.
Why the Siege might have done this, is likely to remain hidden. Though I'll speculate further and suggest that perhaps the throne may have thought of turning Tyranthraxus to the ambitions of the yugoloths for a time. A powerful possessing spirit like Tyranthraxus could achieve a great deal for a race whose primary focus is the manipulation of just about everyone and everything throughout the multiverse. Or it could simply be just a matter of the Oinoloth and the Siege Malicious sensing something in Tyranthraxus that they thought could, perhaps, could assist the yugoloth race in their pursuit of the ultimate evolutionary form of pure evil. We know the yugoloths endure mostly because they wish to evolve to the next level of their evil state. Tyranthraxus might have held some secret that they were desperate to study/possess. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:50:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Weird...I came here because it said Markus made a post...but nothing.
'Tis likely to have been an instance of Markus editing a previous post. He has "a way" of doing that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 02:16:37
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quote:
Originally posted by JakkOn a related note: does anyone have any information regarding Mydianchlarus (Anthraxus' successor as Oinoloth)?
His name is a corruption of "chlamydia". And there's not much about him, other than he appears to have no unique form, which isn't typical for an Oinoloth. It really makes you ask just what did the Seige do to him. :) And if he doesn't on the surface seem different, you never know if it's a random Ultroloth looking at you in Khin-Oin, or the Lord of Oinos himself. Keeps the lesser 'loths in line certainly.
And while it's not in canon, I've always had the idea that the unique yugoloths are literally never whole and never alone. Each of them that acheives such a status harbors the presence of one of the baernaloths of The Demented like a lysogenic virus; a subtle presence in the blood that's always there, watching, making its presence known when it desires. They achieve power and recognition and in turn become puppets and hosts for beings far greater, whether they want it or not. And if true, it makes it an open question as to which baern occupied Anthraxus, and if one still does [though only two are named in canon, Daru ib Shamiq and Harishek Ap Thulkesh]. I wrote a story about that a few years ago, it's probably still online somewhere.
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Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 04:52:25
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| Can anyone direct me to the best sources of canon lore on the yugoloths? I'm suspecting Planes of Conflict is #1... my copy of which is (along with all my other pre-3E material) still far too far away from me. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 05:22:55
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| Faces of Evil: the Fiends pp.66-81. Most info about the 'loths in one place. There's other sources, but that's the best place to start. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 05:59:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Can anyone direct me to the best sources of canon lore on the yugoloths? I'm suspecting Planes of Conflict is #1... my copy of which is (along with all my other pre-3E material) still far too far away from me.
Gray's recommendation is THE BEST source on the yugoloths specifically, and the fiends in general. Others include, aside from the Planes of Conflict boxed set:-
- 2602 Monstrous Compendium Appendix
- 2613 Monstrous Compendium Appendix II
- 2635 Monstrous Compendium Appendix III
And, as well, the Hellbound: The Blood War accessory.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 16:51:31
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Thanks for the quick replies, Sage and Gray! I'd forgotten about FoE and Hellbound... again, I own both sources, but I need to rent a cube van and borrow a driver for a weekend moving trip sometime soon; not having my sources handy is an irritant that grows more annoying with every passing day.
Planescape... easily the single best product line for 2E... and Ravenloft and the Realms are probably #2 and #3, with Dark Sun coming in a close #4 and Birthright rounding out the top 5. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 20:15:00
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| In one of the adventures in Hellbound there's a yugoloth ''ghost'', created by a baernaloth I think. This is usually impossible to do with outsiders. Maybe something similar happened to Anthraxus, from before 'loths were known to purge themselves of chaotic and lawful taints. I like Gray's idea about loumaras, imagine a loumara made from a dead god who's spine is Khin-Oin. |
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Thangorn
Seeker
New Zealand
84 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2015 : 22:21:19
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| I've written a pretty comprehensive background on Big T for my pathfinder POR campaign. Made tyranthraxus a disembodied Altraloth and described his relationship to the primordials discussed in some of the lore. I've mapped out exactly who torath and edranka were and what tyranthraxus' relationship to the POR and the dead three were. I just meant to fill a few holes but i've ended up writing 5k words and counting on this.. If its of interest to you PM me and i will get it to you, might spark some ideas at least.. I've worked up a bit of a timeline aswell.. |
Ex-A Land Far Away (ALFA) DM/Builder
Faerunian Canon Despot |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2015 : 09:33:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Thangorn
I've written a pretty comprehensive background on Big T for my pathfinder POR campaign. Made tyranthraxus a disembodied Altraloth and described his relationship to the primordials discussed in some of the lore. I've mapped out exactly who torath and edranka were and what tyranthraxus' relationship to the POR and the dead three were. I just meant to fill a few holes but i've ended up writing 5k words and counting on this.. If its of interest to you PM me and i will get it to you, might spark some ideas at least.. I've worked up a bit of a timeline aswell..
Fun thing you mention Pathfinder. I crossed over Tyranthraxus to Golarion, and made him a projection of the bound Oinodaemon Anthraxus. He uses powers similar, or identical to the "Fiend of Possession" presrige class, to operate outside his bound form, and try to ultimately release himself. |
Edited by - Baltas on 16 Jan 2015 13:07:00 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 12:16:56
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| Was Tyranthraxus eventually destroyed? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 12:26:00
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| In the adventure module Curse of the Azure Bonds Tyranthraxus is supposed to have been destroyed in the final encounter. He'd possessed an iron golem but a pair of magic gloves called the Gauntlets of Moander functioned to kill his spirit form when the golem was destroyed before he could escape through a Pool of Radiance again. |
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https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 17 Jan 2015 12:28:47 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 13:33:55
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
In the adventure module Curse of the Azure Bonds Tyranthraxus is supposed to have been destroyed in the final encounter. He'd possessed an iron golem but a pair of magic gloves called the Gauntlets of Moander functioned to kill his spirit form when the golem was destroyed before he could escape through a Pool of Radiance again.
Hmmmmm........ I would say there could be another adventure out of this. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Tyranthraxus and the Twisted Ones
