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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 02:36:55
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I am not a RAS apologist, though I've enjoyed most of his books throughout the years, and In Sylvan Shadows was (along with Spellfire) introduced me to the Realms. But though I've enjoyed the writing, I've never liked his tendency to make really stupid dwarven names. Some dwarves get lucky, but most of them get saddled with some of the worst names ever to be inflicted upon D&D characters. Most of the time, I've just decided to ignore the names I don't like if my campaign wanders that way, but today I set myself a challenge, and I rather like what I came up with.
My challenge was simple: How could you possibly have a dwarf named "Runabout Kickastone" in the Realms?
You could argue that it's just a case of really bad translation of a perfectly servicable dwarven name ("All your Runabout belong to us?"), but that just doesn't feel right. For one thing, all of RAS's dwarves are perfectly bilingual, and these proud warriors would surely correct the translation. No. I decided that the answer is simpler: It is a stupid name. And the dwarves know that as well as everyone else. That's the point.
Many cultures have used some form of shaming as punishment, of which the stocks is one of the most famous. It's throughout fiction as well, think the Scarlet Letter or all the Klingons turning their backs. I think "Runabout" could be a dwarven equivalent.
The way I see it, after Delzoun fell and Ammarindar was destroyed and the dwarven numbers in the north really started to plummet, isolated clanholds could no longer afford to frivolously throw dwarven lives away. The once-common dragon moots ceased. Many strongholds barred their doors and hid from the world. And the criminal code changed as well. Offenses that once saw the perpetrator banished, or sometimes even executed, were replaced by public shaming. Dwarves take their names very seriously, and so it was the names that were targeted.
When a dwarf did something that was against clan law, and was convicted of it in a clan court, his original name was stripped from him and a new name was given to him. This name (often chosen by shouts from the peanut gallery) had to be as stupid as possible and relate back to the offense. Then the dwarf was honor-bound (against pain of death, probably, or exile at the very least) to carry that name as his or her own. They lost the right to use their birth name. And, since no clan would want to associate itself with such a scofflaw, it too was stripped and a "last name" was given.
The unfortunate dwarf was then stuck with the stupid name. He or she had to give it when asked things like "What's your name?" and it was legally binding on contracts and such. Which meant that every day they were reminded of their crime.
Never fear, because a dwarf could earn back the right to their old name. Exactly how remained nebulous and up to each clan and circumstance, but usually involved extreme valor in battle. The forging of epic items of magic or the completion of dangerous quests for lost knowledge could also fit the bill.
So now the story of our friend Runabout Kickastone is a bit different. As a small, isolated clan in the north, Battlehammer would undoubtedly used the shaming technique to avoid frittering away any more of their already desperately low numbers. Runabout was one of those original Battlehammer dwarves at Kelvin's Cairn. When word of the orc attack on Ten Towns arrived and the dwarves realized they were outnumbered by something like 50 to 1, instead of reacting with dwarven courage, poor Runabout panicked, running about the room and kicking the walls in terror. His fellows jeered him and left him behind when they went to fight, and a clan council stripped him of his name once they returned victorious. Which is why when we meet him again some years later, he's right on the front lines. He's hoping to re-earn his proper name in battle against a new set of overwhelming orcs attacking his home.
So, what do you think? It's stretching to cover an author's faults, I acknowledge, but it leaves the door open to such fun, I'm having a hard time resisting.
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Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 03:01:58
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Pretty good. I kinda used the same logic when I named my Cleric/Rogue Dwarf Thedorik Trapspringer (yes, I know it's identical to a certain kender...)
The idea came to me about a professional dwarven delver who, early on in his career, accidentally set off a major trap that almost killed him. As it was, he was laid up for quite a while as his bones mended and "found god" during his hospital stay. He spent the next thirty years relearning a trade and is now a older dwarf (middle-aged) that has been a cleric for awhile, but hasn't forgotten the skills he's learned in his youth. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 03:18:25
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| So what about Cordio Muffinhead or Dagnabbit? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 03:29:26
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Dagnabbit I always figured was a nickname, both because of his father (Dagna, one of RAS's few good dwarven names) and because of his "catch phrase." It'd be akin to calling the human Walter Winfield Evans the Third "Trip."
Cordio Muffinhead, though... Hmmm. Maybe he was a patrol leader, who was supposed to lead a strike force to engage a raiding band of monsters in the lower mines as part of a pincer movement. He got lost, though, and his group was significantly late to the fight, letting most of the monsters get away. Thus, Muffinhead, since "He ain't got no brains in his skull, just muffins, and moldy ones at that!" Cordio was chosen just because it didn't go with Muffinhead.
See? We can make up amusing backstories for all these guys, and then threaten any dwarven player with a stupid name if they mess up in spectacular fashion. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 03:31:11
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| Oh, as a side note, under this system the original Pwent got the name because he went berserk in some battle a thousand years back and left a huge hole in the battle line that the enemy exploited. He was too stupid to realize the insult, though, and so happily adopted the new name his fellows gave him "in his honor." He's since passed on both his name and his wits to his descendants. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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David E
Seeker
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 04:17:48
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| That's actually pretty darn good. I like it a lot, Hoondatha. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 07:21:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Pretty good. I kinda used the same logic when I named my Cleric/Rogue Dwarf Thedorik Trapspringer (yes, I know it's identical to a certain kender...)
The idea came to me about a professional dwarven delver who, early on in his career, accidentally set off a major trap that almost killed him. As it was, he was laid up for quite a while as his bones mended and "found god" during his hospital stay. He spent the next thirty years relearning a trade and is now a older dwarf (middle-aged) that has been a cleric for awhile, but hasn't forgotten the skills he's learned in his youth.
You know that this was the NWN 'Shadows of Undrentide' Dwarf Hench's name, right? Dorna Trapspringer is a Dwarf Rog/Clr devoted to Verangadin. Synchronicity.... |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 07:26:57
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Very interesting take on it and very creative, Hoondatha. Although when I name my next dwarf I think I'll stick with Tolkein, Celtic, or Norse names for them.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 15:10:54
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Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder are easy - in their younger days, an avalanche had blocked a bunch of Dwarves in a ravine, and the two brothers "put their shoulders to it" and managed to shift a massive boulder, causing the rest of the debri to fall further and thus freeing the trapped dwarves...
Pikel got his name because he was the one that set-off the avalanche in the first place... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jun 2009 15:11:55 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 15:27:30
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| I know a few people named ''Ivan'', none look like dwarves |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 15:37:52
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| @ Markustay: That's actually one of the reasons I came up with this and like it; dwarves already use "descriptive" names as what humans would consider last names. They're usually positive, though, at least the published ones. Why shouldn't we have negative names, given by the community as a way of getting certain members to shape up? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 16:04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
@ Markustay: That's actually one of the reasons I came up with this and like it; dwarves already use "descriptive" names as what humans would consider last names. They're usually positive, though, at least the published ones. Why shouldn't we have negative names, given by the community as a way of getting certain members to shape up?
I dunno, I think they'd be more likely to mandate shaving off the beard -- and keeping it off. Or maybe having to wear it in a manner the dwarves consider distasteful. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 17:34:00
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I like this concept, of dwarves having ridiculous names put on them as punishment. Goliaths are similar in this respect, often named after serious personal blunders. My exiled goliath in Depths of Madness has been given the name "Vathkelke", which means "willfully lost" or "purposefully cast aside" (at one point, it's also translated as "dispossessed").
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
]I dunno, I think they'd be more likely to mandate shaving off the beard -- and keeping it off.
Dwarves are pretty protective of their beards . . . which makes one willingly shaving off his own beard noteworthy indeed.
Don't know why I mentioned that . . . 
quote:
Or maybe having to wear it in a manner the dwarves consider distasteful.
Braids and cute pink ribbons? Squee!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 18:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I like this concept, of dwarves having ridiculous names put on them as punishment. Goliaths are similar in this respect, often named after serious personal blunders. My exiled goliath in Depths of Madness has been given the name "Vathkelke", which means "willfully lost" or "purposefully cast aside" (at one point, it's also translated as "dispossessed").
But in the case of Goliaths, no-one but them knows what it means in their language.
Dwarves are stupid... they actually trenslate the meaning into common!
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Dwarves are pretty protective of their beards . . . which makes one willingly shaving off his own beard noteworthy indeed.
Don't know why I mentioned that . . .
One of the best computer RPGs I ever played was Arcanum. The main plot (there were hundreds!) was introduced at the very start of the game, wherein the 'hero' (you) meets a dying gnome who says something cryptic and gives you the first clue.
I don't think I'm spoiling it for anyone this many years later, but.... the Gnome actually turns out to be a emaciated Dwarf! He was held prisoner for years, hence the weight-loss, and he shaved-off his beard in order to make good his escape.
You see, on that world, it was completely unheard of for a Dwarf to shave off his beard, so no-one thought for a second they were dealing with anything other then a very skinny, sleightly tall, Gnome.
Some Fantasy Tropes stay true on every world, so its easy to see why you added that bit. 
As for braiding - I have gotten the impression over the years that the way in-which a dwarf braids his beard is particular to certain clans, and in some case, the 'decorations' (beads, feathers, coins, etc..) hanging therein are indicative of rank (or nobility, in the case of Dawarves). Like military insignia, another Dwarf can tell immediately the 'pecking order' when encountering other Dwarves by this.
On the other hand, dwarves who were born in human settlements and have lost their 'Dwarfy' ways would not bother or even know this, causing some confusion when meeting dwarves from a Hold.
Just my take, is all. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jun 2009 18:23:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 18:24:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Dwarves are pretty protective of their beards . . . which makes one willingly shaving off his own beard noteworthy indeed.
Don't know why I mentioned that . . .
Heh.
But yeah, the fact that they do take such pride in their beards and are so protective of them is what makes it seem more like the ideal punishment, to me. Especially since a dwarf with a silly name can simply leave his clanhold and choose to identify himself as "Bahb of the dwarves". A dwarf can go where no one knows him and thus escape his silly name... But a dwarf that goes where no one knows him can't escape being beardless.
Even better, I think it'd be reasonable for some dwarven deities to have something like a beardbane spell, so that shamed dwarves couldn't hide their shame by simply hiding for a while -- this minor clerical spell could prevent the growth of a beard until it's lifted.
Of course, I'm looking at all of this separately from the existing odd names Hoondatha is trying to explain. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jun 2009 18:26:40 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 18:50:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A dwarf can go where no one knows him and thus escape his silly name...
Sometimes you wanna go where no-body knows your name?
quote:
Of course, I'm looking at all of this separately from the existing odd names Hoondatha is trying to explain.
I had a thought about Cordio Muffinhead, but it isn't a PG-13 thought.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 19:32:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Dwarves are pretty protective of their beards . . . which makes one willingly shaving off his own beard noteworthy indeed.
Don't know why I mentioned that . . .
Yeah...misterious...why would you possibly mention that...
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 20:20:57
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Maybe it's just that I'm not up to date on ESdB writings, but I don't have the least idea why you said that.
Anyway, regarding beards, I ascribe to a view quite similar to Wooly's (and spelled out in a Dragon article way back in 1st edition). I agree that shaving the beard is another perfectly viable punishment, but I think that both it's more severe and that it can peacefully co-exist with the stupid naming punishment.
One bit I forgot to add to my original write-up is that if the dwarf doesn't redeem his name, the stupid one is the name that gets written down on his tomb by his kin, and added to all the histories. For a people as steeped in their history as the dwarves, that's another powerful incentive, and doesn't change whether or not the dwarf leaves home (I imagine some dwarf clanholds might even have a "Pillar of Shame" in the center of town like English villages had stocks, with all the stupid names written on them).
Under the Stupid Name System, pretty much any dwarf who commits a crime bad enough to get their beard shaved off would also get a stupid name. The beard might grow back, but the dwarf is stuck with the name until redeemed. Or until he runs away completely, as long as he can live with the fact that his shame will remain after his death. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 21:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Maybe it's just that I'm not up to date on ESdB writings, but I don't have the least idea why you said that.
Heh. There's a dwarf character in my latest novel (Downshadow) named Arrath Vir ("Rath" to his friends and enemies) who has shaved his beard and turned his back on his despised heritage (and he struggles with it frequently).
My main goal in writing him was to write a convincing dwarf character who didn't come off as a cliche, or as *trying too hard*.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 22:03:42
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Ah. That explains it. My FR reading stopped with 3e. Why does said dwarf despise his culture?
Oh, and the dwarven beard article is in Dragon #109, for anyone interested. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 23:29:59
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| Beardbane... interesting, but what's to prevent the duergar from unjustly vexing shield dwarves with such a spell? |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2009 : 23:44:41
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One, duergar don't have wizards any more than dwarves do, so it would be a spell only granted by the Mordinsammen.
Two, make one of the conditions of the spell working that the dwarf has been recently (past day, past week, whatever) shaved. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Fisk
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 00:18:02
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Huh, nice topic! I'm always apt to read anything about the dwarves, and this one is particularly interesting! I must admit, I don't have the scope of knowledge from the FR that a lot of people do on this forum, and I find it financially difficult to acquire the means to do so.
The beard-shaving disgrace thingy gave me an idea for an adventure in the campaign I'm running right now, so thanks! My campaign is set in Tethyr, and one of the characters is a dwarf from the Ghalmrin clan. He was caught trying to sell unlawfully acquired gems to Zazesspuran merchants, and was sent along with them to be jailed for a short time. Along the way, however, he racked up some more transgressions, and was therefore sentenced to more time. A mage who was wanting a guinea pig paid for the rest of his time, and brought the dwarf back to his lodging as an indentured servant. The mage discovered/rediscovered a spell that altered the dwarf's beard, turning it into a 1d3 piercing weapon.
Sorry to be lengthy, but I wanted to ask a few questions. Does anybody have a suggestion for the amount of time it would take to grow the magically altered beard back, say, if he were to get it damaged in battle? And what kind of effect would beardsbanehave on this beard if it were to be cast on him from a cleric of his clan?
Thanks, and sorry for going a bit off topic. |
Fisk |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 06:53:04
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I think some dwarves proudly wear admittedly-stupid-sounding names as a standing challenge to others to say something about it. Imagine a football linebacker in a pink polo shirt, or a basketball power forward who's secure enough to hold his girl's purse.
"Go a'ead. Say somet'in' aboot 'ow silly me naime is. Oi dare ye. No, rreally: Say somet'in', damnit!" |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 07:55:52
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I was always a little disappointed that we never saw many dwarves actually follow the dwarven naming conventions set out in Dwarves' Deep. I would have loved to have heard Bruenor refer to himself as "Bruenor, blood of Gandalug, Clan Battlehammer, of Mithril Hall."
I think a lot of the "comic relief" aspect of dwarves comes from shortening their names to clan names or nicknames (and often times, not really being able to discern which is which, because its not pointed out).
That having been said, I did always kind of picture names like "Muffinhead" being similar to some translated names in the real world, i.e. the name ends up being a poorly translated version of the name when converted from Dwarven to Common. So, if "Muffinhead" is indeed a clan name and not a nickname, it could be that in dwarven the name actually mean something along the lines of "One Who Has a Mind Accustomed to making Great Pastries," which was intended as a compliment to a master craftsmen, a baker in this case, but when translated to common, sounds like an insult. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6651 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 09:27:33
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Of course a "marfin" in the Realms is the dwarven name for the full-face battlemasks made popular by the dwarves of Clan Goldforge of the now-lost realm of Besilmer. Their clan champion, Marfin, blood of Agamm, son of Kheldar commissioned the first of these when he took part in his first Dragonmoot against the dread red wyrm Palarathax "the Firescourge" of Mount Norbas (located in the Sword Mountains and named for the gnome clan that inhabited it before the dragon brought death and devastation to their hold). From that time on, it became a popular cognomen among the dwarves but the passage of time and the sly insinuation of the common tongue into most dwarven converse saw the name corrupted to "Muffinhead".
Well, that's my take on it at least.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 12:57:31
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| ok Hows about Bigrock Pillowbiter!!!! a gay fashinista Dwarf |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 15:09:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
ok Hows about Bigrock Pillowbiter!!!! a gay fashinista Dwarf
I think we're focusing on canon dwarves with unusual names. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jun 2009 15:10:05 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 17:04:07
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Also, I realized that I didn't directly address the original concept of the thread . . . I really do kind of like the "stupid name as a punishment" idea, even though I have always gone with the "bad translation" idea myself.
It does remind me of other dwarven conventions. For example, I seem to remember a dwarven tradition of never recording the names of those that have been exiled from a clan in any histories. This might actually fit in with that, because its a "middleground" between not having a name recorded (thus having done something really bad) but still having done something bad enough that demands "notation" and correction.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 18:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think we're focusing on canon dwarves with unusual names.
Not to mention that name could be construed as tremendously insulting.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Ah. That explains it. My FR reading stopped with 3e. Why does said dwarf despise his culture?
Not yet revealed (anyone have a theory?). I hope to do more with Rath in future books.
And I do respect your reading wishes and the sentiment behind them. You need to do what's right for you.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 18:52:15
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| And I don't resent you or any other author for writing books in the 4e Realms. After all, groceries are a remarkably pleasant thing to have. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Stupid Dwarven Names
