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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 00:42:56
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Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Downshadow [Book 3 of "The Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep" series], by Erik Scott de Bie. Please discuss Chapters 28 to 34 herein:
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Aug 2010 05:44:54
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Steffen Farslayer
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 22:36:54
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| I noticed Yldar called Ilira "Twilight" in chapter 32, page 254. Would this be the same Twilight from Depths of Madness? |
"It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die." - The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 01:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Steffen Farslayer
I noticed Yldar called Ilira "Twilight" in chapter 32, page 254. Would this be the same Twilight from Depths of Madness?
I could pull a typical Erik Scott de Bie answer and say "well, what do you think?" . . . but instead, I'll just say "yes."
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Steffen Farslayer
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 04:58:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Steffen Farslayer
I noticed Yldar called Ilira "Twilight" in chapter 32, page 254. Would this be the same Twilight from Depths of Madness?
I could pull a typical Erik Scott de Bie answer and say "well, what do you think?" . . . but instead, I'll just say "yes."
Cheers
Excellent, I was hoping to see her again after reading Depths. Kudos on bringing her back. |
"It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die." - The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 16:24:50
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This book just keeps getting better and better! I'm up to chapter 36 and I can't say it better than Ed himself...."This is one wild ride!" It's great to see characters from "The Greater Treasure" having an impact in this. I can't wait to see how this turns out!
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"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 16:31:37
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I wouldn't want to interrupt the flow--I'm just glad you're enjoying. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 16:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Steffen Farslayer
I noticed Yldar called Ilira "Twilight" in chapter 32, page 254. Would this be the same Twilight from Depths of Madness?
I could pull a typical Erik Scott de Bie answer and say "well, what do you think?" . . . but instead, I'll just say "yes."
Cheers
It was quite nice to see her again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 20:56:48
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I decided to use the time-skip as an opportunity to add more onto her, and I'm quite pleased with how she evolved. There's LOTS to explore there, and I intend to--if/when I get the opportunity.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 00:53:55
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It seems as if Twilight has become a full fledged Shadowdancer with a warped, hulking Shadow Companion. Now you mentioned that Fox was a 16'th level character. I believe a Swashbuckler/Rogue/Divine Seeker/Shadowdancer.
So now, after 100 some odd years, she would be above 20'th level, or at least 20'th level correct? Mind you, I still play 3.5ED. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 15:43:54
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Well, generally speaking, levels in 4e work differently from levels in 3.5e. Also, a number of things have happened to Twilight over the century, including the complete loss of her divine seeker abilities (why? what caused this? who knows? it's a mystery). I suspect that if/when we see actual stats on Twilight, she will be a mid-paragon level elite skirmisher (somewhere around 13-16th level).
As a sidenote: Did you recognize her shadow companion, by any chance?
Also, take a looksee here with the specs on Twilight in 3.5 (I just love this link!): http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/tdom-part1.zip
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to run and DM a couple games at Emerald City Gamefest today, one of which may very well feature a familiar face from Downshadow . . . 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 14 Nov 2009 15:44:53 |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 20:41:44
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She lost her Divine Seeker status? How lame! 4ED just sounds sooooooooo very lame!
Elite skirmisher? Doesn't sound very appealing. What has 4ED done with Fox? She is one of my fave characters of all time (being a follower of Erevan Ilesere and all), but 4ED and the silly spellplague has all but changed her into an almost completely different character. *sigh*
And yes... why is her Shadow Companion all massive and weird looking? That seems interesting. But if Prestige classes don't exist anymore in 4ED, then I assume she is no longer a Shadowdancer either? |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 01:51:12
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Well, vent your feelings about Twilight's changes toward me, not toward WotC. The way I handled her in Downshadow (and in 4e in general) is entirely my own design.
Don't read too much into "losing her divine seeker status." If she doesn't call herself a divine seeker anymore, it's not because one can't build the skillset in 4e, but because of a certain event that has pushed her away from her tenuous connection to Erevan. More on that later (hopefully in another novel!). (As a consolation prize about Erevan, well . . . if you haven't finished Downshadow, you probably should.)
"Elite skirmisher" refers to her role in combat as an NPC, not her actual class. If I were to build her as a creature to be used in combat: specifically, the lithe, quick striker-type.
As a PC (and I did actually play her once in this build, at a GenCon game run by the James brothers, Brian R. and Matt), my favorite build that I've come up with is as what's called a trickster rogue, focusing on mobility and deception in combat. Actually, I think the combat system in 4e might be *more* geared to my conception of her character than 3.5 was.
Her shadowdancing is definitely still there. Eladrin have this ability called "fey step" that allows them to teleport--that's basically Twilight's shadowdancing, and I've also modified some of her movement abilities to be additional fey steppage.
I'm actually considering whether Twilight would make sense with an assassin build, but that's still to be explored.
As for her shadow companion (*her* shadow, to be precise), it's not so much *what* shadow it is, but *whose* shadow it is.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 19 Nov 2009 01:53:16 |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 02:27:16
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| Nice!!! Didn't it mention something about her sharing her companion with Lorien Dawnbringer. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 15:05:34
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She occasionally sends her shadow out to *protect* Lorien, as is the case when Lorien first appears. The shadow also makes an excellent spy (explaining how she knows about Shadowbane and his operations).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 19:47:36
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| Twilight was awesome and hit on every NPC I introduced to the party. She actually did very well, managing to seduce some powerful people in the city of Phlan. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 23:15:21
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She did, didn't she? That and dealing a knockout blow to a whole horde of rampaging barbarians.
But lest we get off topic . . . what do people think of Twilight's incarnation in the 4e Realms?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 01:48:29
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| I think you described the transition very well. Even in person you gave a great description of the changes over the past 100 years without actually giving too much away. You are a talented storyteller, sir! |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 03:24:14
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| So Twilight no longer uses Erevan when she sees fit? And vise verse? |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 04:10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
So Twilight no longer uses Erevan when she sees fit? And vise verse?
My lips are sealed. You'll just have to see if/when she sees print again!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 19:50:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
But lest we get off topic . . . what do people think of Twilight's incarnation in the 4e Realms?
I think so far she has been truly intriguing! However you always leave that many ends open, I do not know where to start wondering about all the weird stuff that must have happended to her in her time with the Shades and especially during the spellplague.
Hell, probably even a trilogy would not be enough for you to close more open strings than opening new ones.
*writes a letter to WoTC, asking for complete publishing of the whole Fox-series*  |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 00:34:56
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I don't want it to seem like I *couldn't* write a novel (or three) about her and have it be too confusing, though. I think that if I were given the chance, I could write a whole series about her and you'd be right there on the page the whole time, without having to wonder.
Maybe Kate from Lost is a bad example . . . but that's sort of where we're going with Twilight. She has very real *current* adventures, but they're informed by things in her past . . . which I hope to reveal as time goes on.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 03:56:34
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Admit it.... Erevan loves Fox!!!!
Fox loves Erevan!!
Somewhere deep inside she must know that he will always use her for the benefit of The People!! And like wise!!
For the PEOPLE!!! (elves called themselves The People in Third.) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 17:40:26
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Indeed! Elves have always called themselves the People. It's an elf thing.
And yes, while the relationship between Twilight and Erevan Ilesere has always been a complex one, there has always been a substantial amount of love between them. That, and other things. But we'll see more of that later, one hopes!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:28:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Maybe Kate from Lost is a bad example . . . but that's sort of where we're going with Twilight. She has very real *current* adventures, but they're informed by things in her past . . . which I hope to reveal as time goes on.
Hah! That's great Eric! Just this morning I was thinking, that there is something about Fox that reminds me very much of Kate! 
Anyways, I really hope WoTC assigns you a trilogy asap! That would be big fun to read! |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 22:18:00
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Just finished the book at work while I was making the schedule!!! LOL.
As a Head Chef I don't usually have such luxuries.
I have so much to ask and to say!!!!!
When I get home tonight I shall ask away. Soooooo many things that intrigue me. Until then.... F'ing amazing book. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 17:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
I have so much to ask and to say!!!!!
When I get home tonight I shall ask away. Soooooo many things that intrigue me. Until then.... F'ing amazing book.
I'm glad you enjoyed, and I look forward to any and all questions.
I suggest you post them in this thread: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12372
To avoid any spoilers for folks who haven't read past chapter 34.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Downshadow - Chapters 28 - 34
