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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 15:41:06
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I've been playing/DM'ing for about ten years now, but no matter how hard I try, I can never seem to do the Realms games I run justice. I have a hypothosis that states I've just read to many of the FR novels to be able to enjoy a good game in the Realms. And because since I'm one of the only players/DM's that reads the novels, it makes it difficult for the other players to know what's going on.
I was interested to know just how other DM's find the expierence of doing a good Realms Campaign and how they feel that they do the masterpiece born of Ed Greenwood the justice it's due.
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:15:38
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I think the first thing is to try to keep the plot of the campaign straightforward and comprehensible to players who know little about the Realms. A test of this is whether the basic plot of the campaign could be run in another setting by changing the names of NPCs and places. For me, the Realms specific elements are there to add flavor, detail and richness, not to overtake the plot or confuse the players. I think the idea is to make the players feel they are part of a much larger world, without being overwhelmed by it.
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Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 19 Mar 2009 16:32:18 |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:19:13
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| I understand what it is your trying to say. Thank you for your imput. How do you deal with these types of challenges, personally, when they come your way? Do you find that adding a city where there is none on a specific map and changing the land scape to suite an easier task than, say, running a player HQ out of Waterdeep, or even Silverymoon? |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:27:57
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You can run out of Waterdeep/Silverymoon, but you don't need to have Khelben or Alustriel walking down the street every time the players are out and about, if you know what I mean. Start basic, just describe the area like you would any other bustling city. Name-drop, but don't monologue on descriptions of who your name dropping.
For example, if you're in Waterdeep, have the players overhear "<mutter-mutter>mad ol' Blackstaff<mutter-mutter>" and then just drop it. Don't try to tell them all the goings on of Blackstaff Tower if they are simply trying to find a kidnapped lord or somesuch. Think of all your knowledge and lore as background material that you can use if they ask about something, or it's becomes necessary to know in the plot. Otherwise, just let it all go. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:32:34
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| One thing I've done is to ask the players how they envision their characters and their past. A few have given me a few verbal clues, while others have written something a bit more extensive. Once they've given me the bare bones, I set about writing a back story that dove-tails with Realms lore. I then get them to critique it and change or tweak things. This gives me an opportunity to indulge my penchant for Realms lore and do a bit of creative writing. But, more importantly, it allows them to view their characters as part of something bigger, which enriches their role playing experience. |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 19 Mar 2009 16:33:29 |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:33:46
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Thanks, Ashe.
I do make it a tendency to do things like that. I'll try and restrain myself from it, but it's just that I feel as a DM and person that I know these "people" intimately and wish to share it with my players. I don't go off in to lore about the battles or libraries of great warrior's and archwizards, but I do fill in more than I need to/should.
Thanks for the valuable advice.
Care to share a bit of a story how you dealt with your players/characters finding out more in-depth information on famous NPC's? Or even how you handled the PC's meeting with such folk? |
Edited by - Aerik DeVallo on 19 Mar 2009 16:34:48 |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:38:13
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I completely agree, Afet.
There is nothing that I relish quite so much as player or DM as the story itself. It's the most rewarding part. What I have trouble with is figuring weather I'm doing a good job running the Realms. Sure, I know a lot about it, I can name off famous people, places, or even a bit of it's history, but am I giving what it should be given?
I suppose that I'm doughting my creativity a little TO much. |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:43:24
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I run for a lot of people who couldn't tell me the difference between Waterdeep and Sharn, let alone between say, Waterdeep and Shadowdale, so I know where you are coming from.
I find it best to actually use FR locales (like Silverymoon or Waterdeep, or any other town/thorp/city you like). Not because your players know all about it, but because you do. Depending on the game, I hand out a one page flyer on "What Common Things Your Character Would Know." I say one page because any longer and they don't read it.
For Waterdeep, as an example, put in a not about The Open Lord, the Hidden Lords, and a one line description of each Ward, and then maybe a line or two about a few places that will be important to your campaign. Like a note about a certain inn, a temple, and a line about the City of the Dead, or whatever.
That will be the players primer to Waterdeep, and as you play, they can learn more in character. Of course, whatever they learn in character, they might remember as a player, so... eventually they learn more of the realms as a whole. It's not fast, but if the game is fun, they will remember.
Oh, yeah, personally... any campaign set in Waterdeep should eventually have some sort of contact with Mirt. He's just too awesome of an NPC not to use. :D |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:53:09
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lol, I <3 Mirt, too.
Thanks for the imput, Art. Most of my players would rather be Chain Lightning'ed to death than to read one word I've writen for them. Terribly frustrating and a little of a disappointment, I trudge on, doing the best I can.
So you find that running games in a noted locale being easier than just placing a random town out in a country some where and making your own NPC's, maps, and such? I've done both and usually end up having to go back to Core (Just a continent with no name, a country, and a town that the players are in). It's easier on them, and me (at times), especially if I'm having a bad creativity streak or a hard time figuring out where (what country or part of Faerun) that I want to start out in.
I wish I could be a little better at intregue and mystery, coming out with breath-taking plots and devilish schemes that seems are almost impossible to stop or put an end to. Alas, I am not that kind of genius  lol. What do you find the most rewarding type of game play for yourself and for your players?
Also, how do you end up doing your build-up's or suspence? Can you provide an example from some of your game-play? |
Edited by - Aerik DeVallo on 19 Mar 2009 16:55:30 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 16:57:38
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I think you are running into a common problem for many DMs, and the very one that they claim the realms were greatly changed just to address.
The novels created certain pre-existing notions about the Realms, and it is nearly impossible for PCs to "live-up to the hype". Just because your player has a Drow with two scimitars doesn't mean that he - or any other REAL character - could possibly take-on a thousand Orcs by themselves.
The weird part here is that this problem usually exists because of player-expectations, but in your case it seems you are the one guilty of creating your own 'unattainable' expectations.
First and foremost, you must get rid of the notion you are running the 'canon Realms'... you're not. Only the designers and authors get to use that playground (and even then sometimes I think the novels are set in some alternate Realms). Every Realms game - including the ones being played by WotC staffers and the LFR guys - is an entity unto itself. It is an 'alternate reality' version of the realms, and no two are alike.
When you are able to realize this, then you realize that your FR is YOURS, and doesn't belong to WotC or anybody else. You are supposed to take it and make it your own. This is one of the main driving forces behind 4eFR, and one I can get behind.
My Realms are surprisingly different then the canon ones - I've even moved around entire countries - and yet I still consider it the Realms. The sourcebooks are only a set of guidlines - no-one is going to show-up at your house and give you a 'beat-down' for "not doing it right".
Stop trying to capture the flavor in the novels - its not going to happen. Just relax and enjoy the game, and more importantly, make sure your players are enjoying the game. If you are trying to include the myriad layers of FR's byzantine politics and clandestine organizations, and your players have no inkling of those, then you are adding a lot of useless crap.
You need to lay the foundation first - allow your players to learn about things like Zhents, Harpers and Red Wizards slowly over time. You're not supposed to TELL THEM what those things are - they are supposed to find out for themselves. A big part of adventuring is discovery - don't take that from them.
Feed it to them in little bites. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Mar 2009 16:59:39 |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 17:07:21
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I appreciate your candor and bluntness. And reading your response, I completely agree. This was an entirely fair and constructive "dose of cold water." lol
I will try and endevour to follow this valuable advice. Tell me, did you ever have the same problem as I, or know any one who did?
I suppose that I like to do things the way I've been doing them, in what you call "The Cannon Realms" is because I would love nothing more than to become an author for WoTC. Being an aspiring author, I could hardly resist. 
Despite your advice, I fear that the damage has already been done. Most of my players already know about Zhents, Dragon Cultists, Red Wizards, so on and so forth. Maybe I can do a creative upside down cake, undo the damage by introducing some new sects or expand/tinker with the exsisting one's. Thanks to your advice, I certainly will try.
Now I can't wait to play again! Hehehe |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 17:22:43
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In my longest running campaign, our group is trying to find the various dimensional holds created by the Sword Heralds.
So, you have a group of people, looking for gates all over Cormyr and a little ways outside it. The adventures themselves could really be done in any campaign; since it is set in Cormyr, though, I have some nice maps, place names, and NPC names to already work with. Don't worry about being 100% canon (like Marcus said, no one really is), just have fun with it.
The only reason my campaign is an FR campaign is flavor: Everyone had to chose a deity (or risk not being able to be raised). When we ran into soldiers, we could get in trouble if we didn't have a charter/writ/what have you that allowed us to adventure in Cormyr. Place names are on the FR map... but my descriptions didn't always match canon. I like to use the names for inns already written up in books, but if I cannot recall the name (what is the name of that inn in Arabel with a portal in it? Elf something or other?), I'll make it up on the spot... The Elf Tear Inn! (No, that isn't right, meh, close enough, it's not like the players know the difference.)
Anyhow, this basic campaign thread (I call it that because my campaigns are ropes... with many threads running through them, some of which end at knots >_< ), had us find a note about a mage specialized in portals, tracking down his hidden tower, finsing his notes, searching an extradimensional safehold... or three, finding our way to the notes of a REAL Sword Herald, which eventually led to a Great Key (which allows access to any of the safeholds the Sword Heralds made... but still required us to find the portal.) Now this didn't happen shortly, nor without other adventures interspersed, this was just one of the threads the wizard character followed through on. Took about 18, 19 levels til we found a magical map that marks all Sword Heralds safehold portals. Made the character very happy!
Another characters thread was all about his strange powers as a spell thief, and a group of sinister wizards who wanted to capture him and experiment on him... or kill him outright. The cabal of wizards wasn't canon, none of the wizards in it were canon, and they didn't really have much in common except the spell thief. So how did they end up together? Happenstance and the fact that the spell thief was a known mage slayer. Some of the cabal wanted revenge, others were interested in learning how he did what he did, and after having their plans accidently thwarted by others, they decided to work together. That was part of the spell thief's thread: other threads for him were tracking down certain artifacts and slaying corrupt mages. The artifact hunting was a slender hope to understand himself, the mage slaying was his driving passion.
As another example (by no means the last I could bring up though), in the same campaign was a player who ran a noble (I'm not sure what else to call him. He was from a noble background, his character classes were all over the place, and he took leadership.)
This guys driving force was to build towns and castles, help other Cormyreans, and live down his father's treasonous activities. (His father and elder brother were both wanted by the Crown, and the character was barely tolerated at court and mistrusted by most other nobles.) So, by high level, he had put up a fort town in the Stonelands and tried to rehabilitate Battlerise.
These type of things could have been done in any campaign, but by using FR, I had a framework to work with. I didn't have to make up entire towns and countries, and populate it with all the NPCs. Granted, a great number of the NPCs they encounter are detailed nowhere except my notebooks... because the game doesn't go into great detail about every smith, innkeeper, and barmaid, right?
So, call it an FR game, use some of the optional rules (like allowing regional feats if you have Players Guide to Faerun (heck, I give every PC a bonus feat usable only for regional feats to encourage it)), use it for flavor text ("Hey, did you hear about the latest news from Tethyr? They finally have a new Queen!"), use it for FUN! ;) |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 17:48:49
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Interestingly enough, my players have met with Alusair, Caladnei, Storm and Dove so far. I've been running the CSA Adventure Trilogy and, although the NPCs are not 'written up' in the adventures, I used them to add some flavor.
When bridging between the Cormyr and Shadowdale adventures, I decided that the best way to get them from the Wheloon in Cormyr to the Dalelands was through Suzail and the royal court. Basically, at the end of Cormyr, the adventures come back from (spoiler) the Shadow plane after defeating the dragon (/spoiler) and find that the mayor of Wheloon had sent word to Suzail of the goings-on and asked for some Purple Dragons to help clean-up. The knights then take the adventurers to the capital to meet with Alusair and Caladnei and debrief them on the whole experience with the Temple of Mystra. Seeing an opportunity, Alusair charges them with finding out more about the occupation of Shadowdale since she can't afford to get directly involved in the reclamation of Myth Drannor and the battle for Shadowdale.
Storm and Dove popped up near the end of the Shadowdale adventure, when the characters reputation in the Dales hit the point to begin the final battles (and because a certain half-elf ranger found the Warblade... but that's another story ). I honestly wasn't going to have them appear, but in the beginning of the adventure I had explained that they normal defenders of Shadowdale (Elminster, etc.) were unavailable, due to the dark magics in the area. The players have never adventured in the Realms before, but a few knew of Elminster (out of game). One in particular was trying to get out of helping Shadowdale saying "let Elminster do it". I simply name-dropped once in a while (three times over six sessions, I believe), but they asked about them a bit, especially after they got rid of the Shadow ritual in the area that prevented their return. Their own curiosity let me create a short scene where Storm and Dove helped to further the story along and explain a bit about what was going on.
Hope that helps! |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 18:38:43
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Art and Ashe, these sound like very interesting campaigns. I'm sorry that I'm not a part of them!
Thanks for sharing! Keep me updated on how things turn out.
I hope I can fashion my own games using your examples as guidlines. |
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frapast1981
Acolyte
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 11:52:29
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Archmagus
I understand your concerns. They have been mine for a lot of time. My problem is that I like real world history so for me all the lore about the FR is relevant, like a gem carved out from earth. But a lot of players don't see the same things the way I do.
Most of them are not interested in the reason behind that particular fortress been built in that specific location. And a good share of my world-building work went missing. But everyone is at the gaming table for fun, wherever they can find it.
As other have already suggested, your main advantage as a DM is that you can take all the lore relevant to you, enjoy it and then, give it to your player slowly. Just a bit here and there. Over time they will begin to think of your setting as "theirs" also. They usually don't care about the Zhent, but they care about that band of brigands that stopped the caravan that was trasporting that precious load of mineral necessary to their wizards to create that specific "wand of fireballs".
So they will go on a quest to solve this problem, and then they will find out that the brigands were reselling the stuff from the stolen caravan to a shady merchant operating at Voonlar. And that, if they want another load of mineral they have to wait for another six months or so....better going to Voonlar to take back what is ours, no?
But when they arrive at Voonlar they discover that the Sheriff don't agree with their claim on the mineral....even in front of specific clues regarding the propriety of that said load of mineral. But why?
Long story short, when there is a personal reason to confront the Zhents and to find out more about them everything is easier. Now they will care about the Zhents and you will have created a "perfect feeling" of the Realms.
P.S: note that there isn't really " a perfect feeling" of the Realms. Only "your enjoinment" of the Realms.
Rocco |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 14:24:23
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Thanks for your imput, Rocco. 
Do you do a lot of DM'ing, or playing in the Realms? Or just a lot/little of both? lol
What would you consider the best Realms campaign you've played so far? |
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frapast1981
Acolyte
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 14:58:28
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It's a pleasure to share a common hobby and some thought,Archmagus. Especially when there are similar experiences involved.
I have DMed and played a bit in the Realms: I started co-Dming with a friend of mine and we ended-up creating an interesting campaign for our six people gaming group. We completed each other, him being more creative and me more with the feet on the ground. He created the initial sparks and I administered the fire...very very enjoing.
I played in one of his campaign and he played in one of mine.
Usually I'm the one DMing because I've found out that I'm a very demanding player. If you, as a DM, present me with an NPC, I want to know his name. Even if you have to create one on the spot. And I wnat to have a general information on his appearance.
I want to know how a NPC behaves, how he dress and so on.
For me playing is like taking a step through a portal toward Faerun.
But most of the people Raerun is like any other setting. So I prefer to be the DM and play in MY Realms.
I usually don't play pre-generated adventures but one module I like a lot is "The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar".
Also I run a campaign involving a new civil war in Daggerdale, involving Randal Morn (as the rightful ruler of Daggerdale) and Restan Illoder, one of his ex-comrades accused of being a collaborationist with the Zhentarim and then exiled who, after some years and with new "friends" backing him up decided that it was the time to settle his score with Randal.
Rocco |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:02:58
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That sounds like an absolutely delicious campaign.
I'm often stuck DM'ing, as well, because I am the exact same way. I want to know who the NPC is, what he looks like and why he's speaking with me, so on so forth. I find that I enjoy nothing more than playing whichever character it is that I am supposed to be. The story is what it is for me that makes me fall in love with the game. That's why I love the novels so much.
Are you still running the campaign? The civil war one?
And, what is "The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar"? I think I remember seeing that in the FRCS rule book, in noted dungeons section. Is it in Cormyr? |
Edited by - Aerik DeVallo on 20 Mar 2009 16:04:36 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmagus Brandon
And, what is "The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar"? I think I remember seeing that in the FRCS rule book, in noted dungeons section. Is it in Cormyr?
Yup. Eveningstar is a small town in Cormyr.
The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is a rather popular module by Ed, set in this locale. |
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frapast1981
Acolyte
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:16:14
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No, the campaign finished with the player finally defeating Restan Illoder. They helped him for the majority of the campaign, killing some ex-Freedom Rider (Restan wanted to take his revenge on everyone involved in his exile) but refused to kill Randal Morn, thinking about the consequences on the stability of Daggerdale.
That enraged and frightened Restan, who then tried to accomplish his revenge alone. They stopped him in a last fight near the bedchamber of Randal Morn. Really an amusing campaign.
"The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar" is an adventure module written by Ed Greenwood. Eveningstar is a little village east of Arabel at the mouth of a gorge leading to the Stonelands. I always like the way Ed make everything seems soooooo real.
Edit: I was too slow...Mr. Wooly beated me on this race. |
Edited by - frapast1981 on 20 Mar 2009 16:17:45 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:28:56
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| Eveningstar is a great 'ice-breaker' to introduce people to the Realms, IMO. It has a very distinct feel of the Realms and has lots of branches that you can take the players down. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:36:33
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Ha! I have used Eveningstar as a starter town before! I knew that was familiar, but I thought it was something that I'd come up with on my own. Looking at my notes I see the page reference now lol.
Thanks all. Is the module 3.5 or AD&D?
Well, it still sounds like a delicious story, Rocco. I would love to read any notes you may have taken or any thing of that nature.
And thanks for havin' my back, Wooly
I checked out the Hall of Sages, btw. Awesome...
I never imagined I'd have the chance to ask my favorite author's questions. I've got a couple for Ed and Richard, lol. |
Edited by - Aerik DeVallo on 20 Mar 2009 16:38:42 |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:50:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmagus Brandon
Ha! I have used Eveningstar as a starter town before! I knew that was familiar, but I thought it was something that I'd come up with on my own. Looking at my notes I see the page reference now lol.
Thanks all. Is the module 3.5 or AD&D?
Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (TSR 9354 FRQ1) is a 2E adventure. But it wouldn't be hard to adapt. I imagine that, if you ask around a bit, you'll find someone who has already adapted it for 3.0 or 3.5. I think this module would be an excellent candidate for a 4E adaptation. Ed, in fact, has said that he has always wanted to revisit this module. |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 20 Mar 2009 16:53:18 |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:52:40
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Awesome!
I'm really no good at premade adventures though. I guess I just don't understand how to run them. It's confusing. Trying to run "The Dragon Cult" was a disaster lol.
It's pretty bad when you can't even do something someone has spelled out for you. |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:55:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmagus Brandon
Awesome!
I'm really no good at premade adventures though. I guess I just don't understand how to run them. It's confusing. Trying to run "The Dragon Cult" was a disaster lol.
It's pretty bad when you can't even do something someone has spelled out for you.
I think the trick is to not adhere slavishly to the module. Make it your own. Use it as a springboard for your own ideas. Remember, Ed envisioned the Realms as a "sandbox", not a straitjacket or an impenetrable maze. |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 20 Mar 2009 18:00:23 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmagus Brandon
I will try and endevour to follow this valuable advice. Tell me, did you ever have the same problem as I, or know any one who did?
No worries - you can only grow as a DM (and a person) from mistakes - always being 'right' doesn't teach us anything. Lord knows I've made more then my share of blunders - the trick is to learn from them.
And yes, I've run FR campaigns from BOTH sides of the fence. When I first got into FR, I was trying to teach D&D to a bunch of teens who were dead-set on playing in the Realms, when I myself ran Greyhawk. I was stuck with the problem of backwards-engineering all my GH stuff (which I knew very well) into FR, WITHOUT the players catching on to what I was doing... and all the while they new far more about the Realms then I did. I managed to pull it off by saying all the stuff was homebrew, and learned as much as I could about the local area where I was placing the adventure, which was mostly the area in and around the Dales.
Fortunately I only had one player who was more concerned with "where the heck is the Valley of the Mage in the sourcebooks?" (), then with having fun, and eventually even he gave-up on trying to figure out what I was doing (which is the whole point - players should NEVER know more then the DM).
When I got the 3e books a few years back, I decided to start another campaign with a new group, building a campaign-arc from the ground-up. I never really got that chance with the 2e game I ran, because I was co-running with someone else (the person I was teaching), and we were just taking one adventure at a time, in an unrelated series of scenarios. I dug far deeper into FR then I ever had before, including finally reading all the 2eFR sourcebooks I bought but had never bothered to read - imagine... I had a virtual treasure-trove for years and didn't know it!
Anyhow, aside from hearing about 'Drizzt' from MORPGs, these new players had no clue what FR was. This is when I faced the challenge you are right now - I wanted to throw the Realms at them in all it's glory.
The only problem was, they wouldn't unerstand ANYTHING I was doing. However, I decided I liked that... A LOT... and ran with it. The very first adventure we had they were hired as caravan gaurds by the Red Wizards of Thay, and had no clue who hired them (the Thayans were traveling incognito). By involving them immediately with one of the iconic Realms-groups, I was able to teach them stuff along the way: for instance, their employers nearly all wore cloaks with hoods... and they accidently saw them without them, and noticed they were bald (it was night, and they couldn't see the tattoos).
They were traveling north overland to Mulmaster, where they were suspected of being Thayan agents by the Harpers (introduction #2). Once all of that was sorted out in a few sessions, they beame embroiled in a second plot involving the Thayans... who were now coming back to the PCs for their help. The Mulmaster enclave had been attacked, and the Thayans wanted to know who was behind it (the PCs immediately suspected the Harpers, but found-out through their new contact that the Harpers were merely keeping an eye on the RWs).
Which of course lead them to the Zhents with some Harper-provided intel.
This was spread over about 15 sessions - my rule of thumb is some minor fluff every session, with a major piece of lore every 3-5 sessions. You can't really shove the big stuff down their throats every time you get together - the Realms are best enjoyed in little bites, and giving your players time to digest each new morsel.
Like fine wine, the Realms are meant to be 'sipped', not 'chugged-down'.
Also, I still kept all of the Greyhawk weirdness I had added to my Realms, and continue to add new stuff all the time. In fact, I prefer to make-up my own BBGs - I NEVER use the iconics of the game (thus saving them for the writers and designers, and avoding any possible future conflicts). Don't be tempted into throwing Szass Tam or Manshoon at them - there are legions of lesser minions they can meet long before they ever get near guys like that.
The best advice I can give you is - If you like something, then use it... if you don't, then don't. It doesn't matter where it comes from, as long as you like it and can turn it into a part of the game your players will enjoy as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Mar 2009 17:03:24 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 19:10:08
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| I just want to point out that Wooly and I have created about three or four dozen one shot ideas that people could use as ideas to create adventures with. They are in the Candlekeep Compendiums. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 19:14:45
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Awesome! Thanks for letting me know.
Exactly what ARE the compendiums? Are they just a place in the site or are they like real books? |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 19:24:53
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| They are a series of pdfs on the main site with lore, stories and all kinds of great Realmsian detail. Unfortunately the latest bundle of knowledge has been stalled by the lack of a proper fansite policy to determine what the scribes can and cannot publish. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 19:30:29
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That was a very good idea. Them playing for the bad guys with out even knowing it. Or was that the point?
Nevertheless, "throwing the Realms at them in all of it's glory" is something that I've become accustomed to doing and not even reolizing it.
A huge problem I have as a player in the Realms is that it never lives up to my expectations, from whoever is DM'ing, because no one I know know's more about Realmslore than me. Not tooting a horn of some kind or anything, it's just a fact lol. Example:
"Brandon, what's in Halruaa?"
"Oh, that's where the decendents of ancient Netheril live. An empire of wizards. They traveled there on the remnents of the floating cities that they created through epic magic. It's pretty awesome--are we going there???"
"....Nevermind. *shakes head frustratedly* How about Rashamen?"
"A land known for it's berserker's, smoked cheese, and the elite group of female spellcasters that are the acctual power behind the Iron Throne? It borders Thay, which will stop at nothing to learn the mysterious powers its Witches wield in battle against the Red Wizards to devastating---"
"Shut up--nevermind! *closes book* Ok we're in Cormyr--and don't you say a word!"
It's not really that hateful, but sometimes it is. Can I help it if I want to know everything there is to know about it??? Gah!!! I've had them not even play before, sometimes.
It's the biggest reason I never play, or get to play, for that matter. I'm not putting off some kind of blame on my buddies, but I can't hold a gun to their head and make them do research lol.
........or can't I? *eye gleams dangerously*
I would love to play in any one of your guys' campaigns, though. |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 19:32:00
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What do you mean, Ashe?
What fansite policy dictates they can't publish something? Is it because it's non-cannon or something?
Can you explain in a little more detail? |
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Advice for general Realms-running.
