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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 11:31:26
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The Red Wizards have made their view of sorcery clear but what about psionics?
Is it an acceptable alternative power type, such as priestly magic is, or would it be considered to be some how a contaminated version of true magic?
So would Psionics exist in Thay and would their abilities be utilised by the Red Wizards?
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Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 15:08:24
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| my initial thought is that psionics (expect 'prehaps' Psycic warriors) is more or less looked at the same way as Sorcerers |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 15:32:27
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Well, psionism, unlike wizardry, is not something everyone can learn. Anyone with enough INT can learn wizardry, but to use psionism, be it psion, psychic warrior or wilder, you must be born with the gift. With that in mind, and since Thay is not considered a region exceptionnaly strong in psionism, it is safe to assume that psionism is a rare occurence, so a it is source of power that cannot be relied on. So, I think that the red wizards are not inclined to rely on something that they cannot use themselves, so not likely to support a group of psionism. Moreso since that group is gonna be rather small.
That said, it might be frown upon, but not illegal so to speak. My guess is that anything powerful will be used at some point by red wizards. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 19 Feb 2009 15:33:40 |
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 15:35:46
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Aye no wizard in power would let a psionic go up the ladders of power in thay specially a psionic/wizard or sorcerer ^^ psions rock.
i think they would be used but would be closely watched and given the worse and hardest jobs.
"Use them while you can control them and then get ride of them." |
Purple you say?!
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Edited by - Portella on 19 Feb 2009 15:37:17 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 16:19:00
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| I don't see the Red Wizards caring much about a psionic person in Thay unless said person was very powerful. Then the Red Wizards would either try to eliminate that person or control them (use them for their powers). |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:38:13
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| Since Red Wizards have very little time for non-wizards then I get the feeling a Psion would be a useful tool but not a trusted member of the organisation, especially if they are also capable of learning Wizardry. |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 23:01:26
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-I dont think a Psion would even be allowed in the Ranks of The Red Wizards. A tool that can be used and discarded when their usefulness is over with. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 09:37:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-I dont think a Psion would even be allowed in the Ranks of The Red Wizards. A tool that can be used and discarded when their usefulness is over with.
BRIMSTONE
That was my opinion too. So do you think they would actively cultivate this new power to use against their enemies or would they be to distrustful to allow them to grow in power and numbers? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 12:02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-I dont think a Psion would even be allowed in the Ranks of The Red Wizards. A tool that can be used and discarded when their usefulness is over with.
BRIMSTONE
That was my opinion too. So do you think they would actively cultivate this new power to use against their enemies or would they be to distrustful to allow them to grow in power and numbers?
I think if it was clear, 100% (in their view at least) that there was now way the power and numbers could grow too much, then yes, they would probably actively cultivate this new power to use against their enemies. However, any slight hint of distrust would likely lead to them giving up on such project (by elminating the psions of course)  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 12:48:55
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If I was a red wizard of Thay with psionic powers, I would keep that power secret, at all cost. Those witnessing my using of these abilities would be those who die by it. Any "friendly" witness would have to be silenced (no, not necessarily by killing them, there is a lot of psionic powers allows you to erase or modify memory). Those "friends" could be made certain afterwards that that blast of energy you cast was of arcane origin (they even saw the somatic and verbal components).
Yup, psionism would be my ace-in-the-hole, essential in world with so much competition (violent competition most of the time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 18:58:44
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Red Wizards are INCREDIBLY paranoid.
The idea of a group (because they WILL think there is more of them) of people within Thay that could possibly "see their secrets" would probably have unlikely allies banding together to eradicate the potential threat.
There is NO WAY such a closed and secretive group - who can't even stand each other - is going to allow any 'mind readers' anywhere near them to exist. The possible threat they could become would out-weigh any contribution they could make to any Zulkir's aims.
And besides - we are talking about a bunch of guys who think their MAGIC is the ultimate form of power - I doubt they would even consider another source of power worthy of their use. Arrogance is always the very first thing you have to think of when you wonder how a RW will view something.
However, the idea of a 'splinter-group', either operating in secret (3e) or in one of those disenfranchised enclaves (4e), that is combining psionic abilites with magic (a'la the kind of power that was used by the Dragonkings of Athas), and that has been developing their own 'magical traditions' using psionic enhancement would be an interesting plot-device. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2009 22:51:47 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 19:35:42
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Good points about secrecy and mind reading.
I was trying to work out if a group of Thayan agents acting in the realms might include a psion, mainly to catch the pc's off guard. But it seems that any psionic members of the thayan society would be kept on a much shorter leash than that. I suppose a good use for them would be supporting border partols and using their unique abilities to prevent enemies of thay entering the region. 
Nevermind.
What about a Duskblade?  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 20:59:59
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| pretty much the same story ... if they cast Arcane spells and aren't wizards they're not likely to be found .. prehaps an expection for warlocks, though the Jury (per discussion in Complete Mage) is still out on weather Warlocks incanations is closest to Arcane or Divine magic or a whole third beast |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 22:31:37
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I know this is a bit off topic but I came across the Thayan Gladiator PrC, that talks about minotaurs in thay. Is there some actual history to this, or is it simply a convenience for the purpose of the prestige class?
Yes I was joking about the Duskblades really, just need to find an interesting addition to the thayan party.
Have Red Wizard, Thayan Knight, Priest of Kossuth, Thayan Blade (Rogue/Ranger/Monk hybrid), and then ...
What is my fifth wheel? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 23:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Anyone with enough INT can learn wizardry . . .
I don't have a direct quote to hand, but I'm pretty sure that's not so.quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
I know this is a bit off topic but I came across the Thayan Gladiator PrC, that talks about minotaurs in thay. Is there some actual history to this, or is it simply a convenience for the purpose of the prestige class?
FR6 and Spellbound don't mention gladiators, and only Spellbound has a couple of brief references to minotaurs. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 23:46:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
... and only Spellbound has a couple of brief references to minotaurs.
And Forgotten Realms Adventures notes that some Red Wizards utilise minotaurs as personal bodyguards as well.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 06:51:59
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| For the fifth wheel, maybe consider a Gnoll/Minotaur/Blood Orc barbarian/thayan gladiator/frenzied berserker? It sounds like that poor Thayan Knight might be a little bit overworked all by herself in the front-line melee department. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
Edited by - Raith on 25 Feb 2009 06:53:45 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 10:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Raith
For the fifth wheel, maybe consider a Gnoll/Minotaur/Blood Orc barbarian/thayan gladiator/frenzied berserker? It sounds like that poor Thayan Knight might be a little bit overworked all by herself in the front-line melee department.
Yeah I had been thinking that too. So I was going to build a seven person party. To add to the mix I was going to use something like a half-ogre fighter for crowd control, possibly with a spiked chain (see Topic: Will It Reach, for reasons), and then a Thayan Defender, also a unqiue build PrC, with similar abilities to a Dwarven Defender mixed with a Knight Defender, basically a bulletproof wall for the Red Wizard.
I do like the gladiator idea, but dismissed it previously on the basis that he would constantly be trying to escape his captures. I suppose a life outside the area is better than one in it, but they are basically prisoners used for sport.
Back to the real problem of finding an interesting spin on a spellcaster type that would be useful in this group.  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 16:12:05
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Maybe it's a really -good- gladiator that enjoys it's life. Three squares a day and lots of weapons, armor, attention and accolades for doing what it loves to do anyway?
Sounds like a good deal to most orcs!
For your spellcaster spin, I suggest that you go with a Cerebremancer. It can be a Thayan mage who isn't a Red Wizard and is content to be perceived as less skilled than his/her peers, maybe even not taking a specialty school and seeming content to assist "greater" mages, while all along they have been keeping their significant psionic ability hidden. (After all, better to be perceived as a weakling. Easier to avoid assassination attempts, while at the same time remaining able to manipulate the minds of whoever they deem worth while)
Maybe this particular character seems like a less important target in combat until the chips are really down when WHAMMO! Burns half their power points for a psionic version of a mage spell, that hopefully they can later explain away to their superiors. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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Psionics in Thay & Psionic Red Wizards
