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Lodis Knight
Acolyte
16 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 06:48:23
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Do any of the Nine Lords or unique arch-devils have an emphasis on the undead? I was thinking of having a campaign where Velsharoon allies with an infernal power to take on Cyric and/or Kelemvor. Maybe have some followers of Orcus thrown into the mix to conflict with the devils and have the PCs stumble into the middle of it.
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"Troubled times are upon us."
- Cernd, Baldur's Gate II |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 07:27:12
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| I could see a quasi-resurrected Velsharoon becoming involved with such an endeavor... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Gang Falconhand
Seeker
United Kingdom
85 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 08:22:26
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Dispater's layer of Hell is noted (in Fiendish Codex II) as being haunted by a legion of damned souls that repented too late and are now spectres that can fully empathize with the living victims that they are drawn to take comfort in and drain the life energy from. Dispater doesn't control them, but he has a secret method of drawing evil divine energy from the weeping and wailing of these spectres. They don't bother devils or their minions only preying on living beings who have found their way to Dis.
If it was me though, I'd just come up with one of the unique outcast devils of Avernus. |
"If you have a quality let it define you." |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 12:49:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Gang Falconhand
If it was me though, I'd just come up with one of the unique outcast devils of Avernus.
I guess it would depend on how powerful you want that devil to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these outcasts aren't a match for any gods, even the demi-deity, so even less against Cyric or Kelemvor. In Elminster in Hell, I think the Simbul killed at least half a dozen of those "without difficulty". The only reason Elminster got caught was because he just fought an epic battle with the Shadovars and closed a rift.
As for the main topic, no archdevil officially has undead emphasis, but all on them are opportunist. If Velsharoon came up with a plan to kill a major god and steal their essence, you can bet that they will all be interested. Personnaly, I'd go with Levistus. Godlike power might allow him to break free of his ice prison, even if these powers are not his own. The deal could be,
Velsharoon: Help me become a greater god by killing (insert god name) and I'll free you from your icecube
Levistus: oh it's on!
(I'm sure you can come up with better Faerunian dialogs, but you get the idea)
On a side note, remember that Levistus also has an urge to betray, that could make things even more interesting.
Another interesting possibility is the most recent Archdevil (it only occured 1 year ago according to Fiendish codex II) : Glasya. Who knows how she is gonna rule (undead emphasis maybe? Vampiric erinyes... that could work) |
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Gang Falconhand
Seeker
United Kingdom
85 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 16:48:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I guess it would depend on how powerful you want that devil to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these outcasts aren't a match for any gods, even the demi-deity, so even less against Cyric or Kelemvor. In Elminster in Hell, I think the Simbul killed at least half a dozen of those "without difficulty". The only reason Elminster got caught was because he just fought an epic battle with the Shadovars and closed a rift.
Yeah there is that issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Another interesting possibility is the most recent Archdevil (it only occured 1 year ago according to Fiendish codex II) : Glasya. Who knows how she is gonna rule (undead emphasis maybe? Vampiric erinyes... that could work)
Or what about the Hag Countess who Glasya has taken the place of? I know the Hag Countess won't even be considered an Archduke (duchess?) now, but she'd certainly be powerful and want to get some power back... |
"If you have a quality let it define you." |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 19:41:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Gang Falconhand
Or what about the Hag Countess who Glasya has taken the place of? I know the Hag Countess won't even be considered an Archduke (duchess?) now, but she'd certainly be powerful and want to get some power back...
The Hag countess would not do mostly because she is dead, very very dead in fact considering how Glasya disposed of her. Malagarde (the hag countess real name) started to swell, in absurd proportion, and she exploded. You can read Malbolge's (the 6th layer of the nine hells) entry in fiendish codex II for more goresome details, but she "became" malbolge. Her skull in now Glasya's castle (told you she swelled absurdly). I do not think Glasya actually did it, it is more like Asmodeus, but don't expect him to confirm it.  |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 16:15:28
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Not many devils are focused on undead
there is Thasmudyan from Zakhara, a baatezu lord worshipped by the necromancer kings of ancient Nog
also you can tie Nergal (the most powerful among the exiled nobles in Avernus) to the mesopotamian power of the underworld, Nergal |
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Gang Falconhand
Seeker
United Kingdom
85 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 18:58:59
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| What about Gargauth? I know he no longer has his parking space reserved in the Nine Hells, but in my campaign I had him somewhat usurp Moander's portfolio of corruption and rot to add to his own portfolio of more political corruption. An archdevil/demigod of rot and corruption (in all its forms) would have some association with the undead. |
"If you have a quality let it define you." |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 20:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Gang Falconhand
What about Gargauth? I know he no longer has his parking space reserved in the Nine Hells, but in my campaign I had him somewhat usurp Moander's portfolio of corruption and rot to add to his own portfolio of more political corruption. An archdevil/demigod of rot and corruption (in all its forms) would have some association with the undead.
That would be good. I like how you would link rot and undeath, that makes sense. Just remember though, Gargauth is no Archdevil, he's a god (normally a demi-power, now maybe a lesser power with moander's portfolio). That gives you two rather low power against a greater one, if they wish to succeed they'd better have one hell of a plan (got it? hell.. nevermind). BUT, one could argue about the wisdom of allying with the god of betrayal and corruption, just a thought.. Maybe Velsharoon got a death wish.. (got it? God of undead.. death wish, ahhh forget it). |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 22:04:26
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| think Baalzebul would be better for rot, tough I don't associate rot and the undead |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 22:32:10
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-Maybe they (whoever they are) are looking for artifacts to use in the Diabolical plan Think Bane and Co. when they made their paly on Godhood. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 22:42:41
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Well, zombies rot. :) So, I could see some connection between rot and undead...... Who knows, maybe liches also rot. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
think Baalzebul would be better for rot, tough I don't associate rot and the undead
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 23:09:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well, zombies rot. :) So, I could see some connection between rot and undead...... Who knows, maybe liches also rot. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
think Baalzebul would be better for rot, tough I don't associate rot and the undead
Liches rotting has certainly been implied in past lore... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2009 : 23:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well, zombies rot. :) So, I could see some connection between rot and undead...... Who knows, maybe liches also rot. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
think Baalzebul would be better for rot, tough I don't associate rot and the undead
Liches rotting has certainly been implied in past lore...
Indeed. While liches usually don't require food or water, they must still conduct rituals that are designed to renew their powers and sustain their physical existences. Which would suggest that their physical selves are susceptible to instances of rot and decay.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 28 Jan 2009 23:30:07 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 12:41:36
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yea, but it's just liches and zombies, other types of creatures have much larger percentage of rotting, undeath is all about unnatural immortality
so I'd rather associate rot with natural cycles, unseelie or hag powers would be more appropriate imo |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 14:48:58
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Anyway, pictures of liches always seem to imply rotting and decay, so... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lodis Knight
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 15:03:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Not many devils are focused on undead
there is Thasmudyan from Zakhara, a baatezu lord worshipped by the necromancer kings of ancient Nog
also you can tie Nergal (the most powerful among the exiled nobles in Avernus) to the mesopotamian power of the underworld, Nergal
Which product is Thasmudyan mentioned in?
Has the Untheric Nergal ever been given an alignment or info to how his clergy acted? |
"Troubled times are upon us."
- Cernd, Baldur's Gate II |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 16:09:26
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Granted, its not an "official" source, but according to Green Ronin's Book of Fiends, there is a Duke Malgrin who is loyal to the Lord of Avernus and is the Duke of Unlife, though his interest seems to be mainly in those undead that can be used as legions to defend Hell and invade other planes.
Still, it might be interesting to have Malgrin be the go between for other powers of Hell that want to maintain "plausible deniability" when dealing with godly politics. It sounds like a "devilish" thing to do. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 20:49:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Lodis Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Not many devils are focused on undead
there is Thasmudyan from Zakhara, a baatezu lord worshipped by the necromancer kings of ancient Nog
also you can tie Nergal (the most powerful among the exiled nobles in Avernus) to the mesopotamian power of the underworld, Nergal
Which product is Thasmudyan mentioned in?
Has the Untheric Nergal ever been given an alignment or info to how his clergy acted?
he's in The Complete Book of Necromancers
Link removed by moderator
Untheric Nergal was slain during Orcgate Wars, there isn't much info, probably Jergal replaced him
there are some traces of him, like midnight-skinned tieflings
I think his tomb is somewhere in Thay, Pyrados, not sure
the tomb is in Shemmy's Planescape Storyhour 2, not canon, might interest you tough
Babylonian Nergal is in On Hallowed Ground, NE, lesser power of Oinos, 1/4 of a page of info, nothing about the clergy
also he's in 1e Deities and Demigods, not much:
SYMBOL - Dark-skinned man holding a jet black shield
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0204c&L=realms-l&D=1&P=7268
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Feb 2009 03:54:01 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 04:01:50
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| Folks, just a notation, here... The only people that can distribute material owned by WotC or TSR are WotC themselves, and the companies they license to. The link I removed appeared to contain the entire text of an older sourcebook. It's not a sourcebook that's distributed for free on the Wizards downloads page, and it's not someone I'm familiar with as a legal licensee. Since we try to avoid illegal distribution and file sharing of WotC's IPs on this website, I chose to err on the side of caution and remove the link. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Feb 2009 06:14:47 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 20:20:39
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sorry, thought it is free
btw forgot about the 3rd party source, Bastion Press' Lore of the Gods has 2 pages about Mesopotamian LE Nergal, half a page about the clergy |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 16:14:01
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I like the Nergal/Nergal connection - it could work. Arch-fiends and demi-gods are on the same power level pretty much, and a demi-god could either be a mortal on the way up, or a god on the decline, so it's fairly easy to spin him (it?) that way.
Its also a great to way to bend canon wiithout breaking it - you wouldn't have to modify any of 'The Nine' to achieve what you want. IMG, I have it where Nergal the fiend is actually half of the God Nergal (the other half being Jergal).
But if you're not a canon-nazi (), there's no reason why you couldn't still use Malgarde, the Hag Countess. Heck, gods come back all the time, or perhaps she had a contingency in effct, keeping whatever passes for a fiend's 'soul' inside a phylactory (making her a Devilich now, and fitting neatly into your scenario), or it could be as simple as she faked her own death (Fiends are snealky that way) because she has 'bigger, better' plans now (Devine ascension? The taking over of Hell?)
If you really need deity-level power and undead, you could borrow Vecna from Greyhawk - you could come-up with whatever reasoniing you want to have him in Hell that day. 
Not exactly FR-canon, but there are some tenous connections between he and the Realms (via Ravenloft).
Duke Malgrin also sounds promising, although not WotC canon, Green Ronin products are usually pretty excellent. I'll have to check that one out - thank you for that, KEJr.
Thasmudyan is in the CBoN?
He sounds PERFECT for some other things I'm working on, and I just so happen to be reading through that tome again. I read it way back when it came out, and I've been looking for some juicy undead stuff to flesh-out Tan Chin (my FAVORITE Lich) for the Kara-Tur project, and I don't remember him and haven't come across him yet in my re-read.
Thanks for that, Quale |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Feb 2009 16:20:27 |
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Archduke of the Undead?
