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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 04:20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
We told the police, who had arrived with the notion in their heads that she HAD to be a prostitute, that her behaviour was the result of being hypnotized by Grimwald the Great, a notoriously lecherous stage magician and longtime enemy of ours whom we'd encountered in a local restaurant earlier in the evening, and who had entered the hotel and confronted her outside our room - - and they must on no account awaken her because permanent mental damage could result.
They bought the story, and took pages and pages of notes (in those days, policemen carried around notepads and wrote, wrote, wrote every last thing they did on shift), asking us all sorts of questions and pressing us to promise them that if we ever saw this Grimwald again, we would promptly report his whereabouts and doings to them.
Reminds me of something I heard in a song, once...
And that's what we did, sat in the back of the patrol car and drove to the quote Scene of the Crime unquote. I want tell you about the town of Stockbridge, Massachusets, where this happened here, they got three stop signs, two police officers, and one police car, but when we got to the Scene of the Crime there was five police officers and three police cars, being the biggest crime of the last fifty years, and everybody wanted to get in the newspaper story about it. And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station. They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us. Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography.
Such Puritans... |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 04:22:24
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Heya,
All I can say to that story is - ROFLMAO.
And since I should try to be on topic, thank you so much for the response re: Holynose.  I have now finished The Sword Never Sleeps, and it definitely kept me from complete madness in this last week (dealing with a nasty bout of gastro). I would love to see more Knights books in the future (For example, I'd like to see what kind of hilarity ensues when Rathan and Torm meet up with the others for the first time), but I am not holding my breath (given I'm sure WotC will want 4th Ed Realms Novels (4eRN) only from now on - if Ed writes any 4eRN, I might just have to make an exception to my no 4e Realms rule for them). |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 05:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
THO mailed the poor (?) guy a photo of herself, lying on a table unclad except for some "runes" drawn all over in lipstick, surrounded by lit candles, with a dagger point-down held in her mouth and another driven into the table somewhere, ahem, lower, staring wide-eyed up at the ceiling.
Well... I have to say it's an extremely dubious story. Perhaps if a copy of said photo were still around... you know, a bit of hard evidence?  
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 05:58:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So saith Ed. Who in this case has toned down a tale that in some ways was rather steamier.
Ah, such a gallant, defending the reputation of a hooded lady . . .
Or not.
love to all,
THO
Any chance you can send me [via ethereal mail] the "steamier" version my lady? I just thought of a rather humorous encounter I can run for my PCs in the next stage of my campaign, based on this. But I'd like to read Ed's full take on it first.
I'd like to read the unedited version, too! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 09:55:17
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So what had happened to the nightgown?
Gomez
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 10:48:02
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by gomez
So what had happened to the nightgown?
She was carrying it over her arm when she returned to her room. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 12:41:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by gomez
So what had happened to the nightgown?
She was carrying it over her arm when she returned to her room.
This is sad, I was wondering what book she was reading. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 13:27:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, all. Blueblade, Ed has responded to your request for "juicy Grimwald anecdotes" with just one, for now. A real-world one, mind you:
With THO's (obtained) permission, allow me to briefly tell Candlekeep about the Adventure of the Nude Maiden.
Years and years ago, several Canadians (including yours truly and THO, but none of the other regular Realms players; instead, there were three other guys along who were fellow fantasy and sf fans) stayed at a hotel to attend an sf convention in the U.S. Midwest. Though she was completely unconcerned about sharing a room with several guys, myself included, this was years back, and the hotel (once they discovered she wasn't married to any of us) would not hear of it. She had to have her own room, and all four guys had to squeeze into another - - which the hotel pointedly located on another floor, at the far end of the hotel from hers.
Being Canadians unused to having strangers decide our morals for us, and the rooms having connecting phones, we decided to get together for an evening of games, snacks, and chat. At the end of it (at about three in the morning), THO strolled back to her room stark naked, silent and jaunty.
Well, I exaggerate. She was in fact wearing shoes, her watch, and a smile, and carrying a paperback book and the nightgown she'd worn down to the room, over her arm.
She got spotted, of course, and darned if the hotel didn't call the police.
And direct them to OUR room rather than hers, because of course the guys MUST be responsible because a "young and therefore vulnerable, naive, weak-minded woman" (in their words and their way of thinking, though we were all at the time in our twenties) must be "in the charge of" one of us.
We told the police, who had arrived with the notion in their heads that she HAD to be a prostitute, that her behaviour was the result of being hypnotized by Grimwald the Great, a notoriously lecherous stage magician and longtime enemy of ours whom we'd encountered in a local restaurant earlier in the evening, and who had entered the hotel and confronted her outside our room - - and they must on no account awaken her because permanent mental damage could result.
They bought the story, and took pages and pages of notes (in those days, policemen carried around notepads and wrote, wrote, wrote every last thing they did on shift), asking us all sorts of questions and pressing us to promise them that if we ever saw this Grimwald again, we would promptly report his whereabouts and doings to them.
We gave our promises, and accepted a mailing address and a police officer's name and telephone number. They never did go to her room.
I'm afraid that once we were safely back across the border, THO mailed the poor (?) guy a photo of herself, lying on a table unclad except for some "runes" drawn all over in lipstick, surrounded by lit candles, with a dagger point-down held in her mouth and another driven into the table somewhere, ahem, lower, staring wide-eyed up at the ceiling.
On the back of it she wrote, in angular masculine printing, "Regards From Grimwald The Great."
I suppose it's still pinned up on a police office corkboard somewhere.
So saith Ed. Who in this case has toned down a tale that in some ways was rather steamier.
Ah, such a gallant, defending the reputation of a hooded lady . . .
Or not.
love to all,
THO
No amount of words could express the levels of greatness of this tail, er, I mean tale.  |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 13:50:31
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Hello again Hooded Lady.
As another great author, Philip Jose Farmer, passed away a couple of days ago(Except for Vance,are there any of the old guard left now?)I got curious. How much inspiration did Ed take from the World of Tiers books when he thought out the world connections of the Realms? I seem to remember he mentioned the series in a Dragon article concerning gates years and years ago. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 14:43:21
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Ahem. Thanks, all.
I should mention that my then-boyfriend was one of the four guys (we'd been planning to either book a suite and all share it, or two adjoining rooms and boyfriend and self bunk down in one, with the three remaining guys in 'tother; no, Ed was not my then-boyfriend). The paperback, as I recall, was a collection of Kipling short stories, and the nightgown was a modest, opaque ankle-length affair with a gathered waist that tried to look something like an Edwardian dress (sleeves ending at mid-bicep, overlap front panels for modesty with row of toggle fastenings, inner slip stitched in, ashes-of-roses hue (that's a becoming shade of something like pink, fellas) that didn't do much for me).
The amusing bit was how the cops were barely interested in a description of Grimwald, but sure wanted an in-depth description of me. I suppose they just wanted to be prepared, in case they encountered several nude females strolling around their city that night, to be able to make a positive ID.
The steamier version, huh? Heheheheheh . . .
love,
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 14:51:15
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Hi, Jorkens. Ed drew on the World of Tiers series for the "mechanics" of gate operations, not for inspiration. Before that PJF series was published, Ed had already read the William Morris THE WOOD BETWEEN THE WORLDS classic (as mentioned in that Dragon article, I believe) as well as Narnia and many other fantasy classics that use the "stepping from our world into another, and back again" conceit, such as John Masefield's THE MIDNIGHT FOLK. So these far older classics were his inspiration . . . and a later series that was itself in part inspired by Farmer, Zelazny's Amber series (we have Roger's own words "proving" this inspiration, in the old Dick Geis THE ALIEN CRITIC fanzine), "inspired" Ed more in fleshing things out, later. Many modern fantasy authors, from Moorcock to H. Beam Piper, have used various versions of what might be called "the Multiverse" (and has been, by some) as part of their fantasy tales - - and Ed's library holds examples of most of them.
This is a topic that Ed and I (and Ed and lots of others, including many TSR designers) have talked over many a time.
love,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 15:56:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Any chance you can send me [via ethereal mail] the "steamier" version my lady? I just thought of a rather humorous encounter I can run for my PCs in the next stage of my campaign, based on this. But I'd like to read Ed's full take on it first.
Please refrain from fiddling with the CK servers after you read that... at least for a little while...
or until you take a cold shower....
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Very Cool.
And here I thought I was the only 'streaker' left around.
-  
A VERY long time ago, when there was a LOT less of me to expose.
Its a pretty funny story too, but this isn't the place for that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Feb 2009 15:56:58 |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 16:12:10
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Markustay, does, uh...
Does involuntary streaking count? |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 16:16:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So saith Ed. Who in this case has toned down a tale that in some ways was rather steamier.
Ah, such a gallant, defending the reputation of a hooded lady . . .
Or not.
love to all,
THO
Any chance you can send me [via ethereal mail] the "steamier" version my lady? I just thought of a rather humorous encounter I can run for my PCs in the next stage of my campaign, based on this. But I'd like to read Ed's full take on it first.
There you go again my friend, Sagifying another innocent scoll!!
Oh yeah, campaign encounter my arse......we are sure you had an encounter in mind though......
oh well,.....HHHHIOTWIG!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 27 Feb 2009 16:17:47 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 18:11:36
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| If Candlekeep were a Video-store, the Sage's scrolls would be the ones they keep "in the back". |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 19:40:06
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SUCH a to-do. I walk around my house naked all the time.
One more recollection: part way back to my room, I did in fact loosely tie the nightgown around my waist, so the ends hung down one hip, so I could read in the elevator more easily without breaking the spine of the book or risking dropping it.
I met no one in the elevator, but two hotel guests in the corridors. My favourite was the old man in tux who stopped, looked me up and down, bowed, and murmured, "VERY nice, my lady. Very nice. I thank you . . . and good night." He smiled, put his key in the door (yes, even large chain hotel rooms had KEYS in those days, folks), and went into his room. A classy gentleman, very American (tartan bowtie with the tux). I suppose he's long dead, now.
Which reminds me . . .
Jorkens, I think Moorcock is the last of the prominent old guard, now. LeGuin, too, though I've always counted her as the next generation of fantasy writers. Then there's the debate about John Jakes . . .
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 27 Feb 2009 19:43:51 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 20:27:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Jorkens, I think Moorcock is the last of the prominent old guard, now. LeGuin, too, though I've always counted her as the next generation of fantasy writers. Then there's the debate about John Jakes . . .
love,
THO
Isn't David Eddings rather old guard-ish too? Or is he a decade or so too late? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 21:20:23
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Eddings is the right age to squeak in to "old guard" territory, but he and his wife didn't start writing and publishing fantasy (as opposed to HIGH HUNT) until decades after the "old guard" writers started. So to readers who know nothing at all about the writers, but only the passing parade of fantasy for sale, he "comes much later."
From the English-language commercial fiction viewpoint (i.e. not including old folk tales, but novels written for sale, which starts us in Victorian times), we have the Victorians and Edwardians (Morris, Dunsany, Eddison), the pulp-era writers (Howard, Burroughs, Brackett, Quinn, Lovecraft, Vance, Kuttner, Moore, etc.), Tolkien, and then the flood of post-Tolkien imitators and other fantasy writers who rise to prominence (or continue on from their pulp roots) during the founding of the commercial fantasy genre that THE LORD OF THE RINGS spawned.
These are VERY rough-n-ready deliniations, and everyone prefers their own, but that's a simplified way of looking at it. Eddings makes his mark with the Belgariad starting in 1982, well after the first post-Tolkien flood.
Leiber, Moorcock, PJF, and so on got to our bookshelves first.
I was starting to work in publishing back then, so it seems clearer to me than it will to someone "looking back" from now.
love,
THO |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 21:26:18
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Piers Anthony and McCaffrey are of course alive still. I always count Moorcock to the next generation, with the 60's and Hawkwind. It started to seem like Williamson was immortal, but by now Moorcock, Ellison and Harrison are the veterans.
Zelazny also wrote a foreword to an edition of A Private Cosmos where he talked about getting the inspiration for Amber.
The theme of Amber and Tiers with the Lords and Princes leads me to another question. Was there ever an idea that the larger gates of the Realms were tied to a certain group or such, that had tied the planes together? Or were the numerous gates the results of the various mages throughout the multiverse working on their own?
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 23:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So saith Ed. Who in this case has toned down a tale that in some ways was rather steamier.
Ah, such a gallant, defending the reputation of a hooded lady . . .
Or not.
love to all,
THO
Any chance you can send me [via ethereal mail] the "steamier" version my lady? I just thought of a rather humorous encounter I can run for my PCs in the next stage of my campaign, based on this. But I'd like to read Ed's full take on it first.
There you go again my friend, Sagifying another innocent scoll!!
Oh yeah, campaign encounter my arse......we are sure you had an encounter in mind though......
oh well,.....HHHHIOTWIG!!
Dude, just be glad he hasn't said something like "woot" yet. Every time he does, I feel like the Earth shifts off its axis. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 23:31:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Please refrain from fiddling with the CK servers after you read that... at least for a little while...
or until you take a cold shower....
Or LARPing with the Lady K, if you know what I mean. *snicker*
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
There you go again my friend, Sagifying another innocent scoll!!
"Sagifying" is here. No scroll is safe!
quote:
Oh yeah, campaign encounter my arse......we are sure you had an encounter in mind though......
Well, I did have role-playing in mind when I replied to the Lady Hooded One. See my reply to Markus above re: what type of role-playing I was thinking about.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If Candlekeep were a Video-store, the Sage's scrolls would be the ones they keep "in the back".
[Ralph Wiggum voice]"All the people are hugging."[/voice]
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
SUCH a to-do. I walk around my house naked all the time.
I used to. But after nearly 20 years of the typical "gamer lifestyle," I'm a little self-conscious now. And that's probably also why the Lady K hasn't yet approved my desire for us to allow "Strip High Dragon" during our gaming sessions. 
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
Dude, just be glad he hasn't said something like "woot" yet. Every time he does, I feel like the Earth shifts off its axis.
Is "neato!" okay then?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 02:16:08
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Ahem. Well, Ed left out the nipple clamps, among other things, Sage. Just so you know . . . 
Hello again, fellow scribes. Early this month, krownhunter07 posted: “Hello Ed, I'm new to posting here at the Keep, but I'd really like to know a few things you might have a mind to answer for me...
Firstly, do you know, or could you come up with, any information about where Evermeet is now and what is around it? Still an island or part of a larger area? Friends, enemies, a little history about what's happened since the Spellplague?
Also, any details on the other Elf blades?
Thanks in advance!”
Ed replies:
Hi, krownhunter. As Daviot mentioned, the best answer to your question about Evermeet’s fate is to be found in the 4e Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. I can say that the “shift” during the Spellplague was interesting, to say the least, because the stresses on the elven magic warding the island created many chaotic, short-lived portals and other effects that hurled persons and magic to many places (including Toril’s sister world, Abeir; elsewhere on Toril, primarily in Faerûn; and other planes entirely). Most of these people and things arrived unscathed in their new locations, but of course were in no way “safe” from bad things happening to them once they arrived there.
Ashe Ravenheart ably summarized the fates of the blades for you, and sfdragon was quite right to speculate that the Artblade is “likely under a huge NDA.” I wish I could say more, but right now, I really can’t. Sorry!
So saith Ed. Creator of Evermeet, Faerûn, and the concept of elven high magic.
Who is undoubtedly hard at work writing, as I post this.
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - The Hooded One on 28 Feb 2009 02:17:22 |
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A Publishing Lackey
Seeker
74 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 02:48:08
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Well, if you expand things to sf as well as fantasy, the periods of prominence shift somewhat.
But let's take a look:
McCaffrey born 1926, publishes short stories in the early 50s, but first novel is Restoree in 1967.
Moorcock born 1939, short stories that later became Sojan first pubbed in the 1950s, Golden Barge written in 1959 but not pubbed until 1979, first novel The Sundered Worlds (later titled The Blood Red Game) magazine-serialized starting in 1962 (it introduced the Multiverse!).
Farmer born 1918, first sf short story 1946, gains prominence with The Lovers, magazine-published in 1952 but not a novel by itself until 1961.
Piers Anthony (Jacobs) born 1934, first sf short story pub 1963, first novel (Chthon) in 1967.
Ellison born 1934, first sf short story 1956, first sf books both in 1960.
Harrison born 1925, first sf short story 1951 (sf and comics illustrator before that), first sf novel Deathworld in 1960, though most Stainless Steel Rat fiction that was put together into the 1961 book SSR published before Deathworld.
Vance born 1916, first sf short story pubbed 1945, first book The Dying Earth in 1960.
Eddings born 1931, first non-sf book High Hunt in 1973, first fantasy Pawn of Prophecy (Belgariad Book 1) in 1982, all fantasies co-written with his wife Leigh.
So as THO said, it's not really a matter of age or strict dating, but when writers rise to prominence. Or when they get published in our local market or language, or when we first notice them. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 02:54:50
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Nicely put, APL. Moorcock is certainly remembered as being part of the 1960s "New Wave," but Anthony and McCaffrey "rise" slightly after he does.
And Eddings is well after all of them, a few years after the Realms has first appeared in print in DRAGON (1979), but before Ed's first fantasy novel (1987) and the launch of the Realms as a game setting (1986) and the first Realms novel (Darkwalker on Moonshae by Doug Niles).
Seems like yesterday to me, but ancient history to many Realms fans, who (gulp) weren't even born then. (!)
love to all,
THO |
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Kes_Alanadel
Learned Scribe
USA
326 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 03:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by A Publishing Lackey
McCaffrey born 1926, publishes short stories in the early 50s, but first novel is Restoree in 1967.
The first novel of hers I read, and still one of my favorites! |
Ack! I seem to have too much blood in my coffee stream!
When did 'common sense' cease to be common? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 05:59:05
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What? No Kurt Vonnegut? I'd say Cat's Cradle was borderline Fantasy/Sci-Fi.
Come to think of it, that describes most of his stuff (the ending to Galapagos was just plain 'out there').
Also, no one mentioned one of my favorites - Stephen R. Donaldson and his Thomas Covenant novels (we had a little bit of dimensional sliding going on there).
And don't forget Jack Chalker - the gates in his Well of Souls novels could swallow an entire planet!
So much yet left to read, so little time... <sigh> |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Feb 2009 06:00:30 |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 07:15:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
From the English-language commercial fiction viewpoint (i.e. not including old folk tales, but novels written for sale, which starts us in Victorian times), we have the Victorians and Edwardians (Morris, Dunsany, Eddison)
Would you include M.R. James in that category? Not fantasy, strictly speaking, but very influential on the genre I would think. |
--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 07:55:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
What? No Kurt Vonnegut? I'd say Cat's Cradle was borderline Fantasy/Sci-Fi.
Come to think of it, that describes most of his stuff (the ending to Galapagos was just plain 'out there').
Also, no one mentioned one of my favorites - Stephen R. Donaldson and his Thomas Covenant novels (we had a little bit of dimensional sliding going on there).
And don't forget Jack Chalker - the gates in his Well of Souls novels could swallow an entire planet!
So much yet left to read, so little time... <sigh>
Donaldson should be mentioned, even if he starts in the mid-70's. As should Cherryh with her Morgaine books. These were also mentioned in the Dragon article in question. Tim Powers (another newer favourite) had some elements of the subject in his The Drawing of the Dark.
That leads me to anotehr question, this time more to The Hooded One. Did Ed ever use the alternative to Gates, of the dying or dreaming travelling through the dimensions/interplanetary worlds? The method is common in so much earlier fantasy (and even before that), but seems to have fallen somewhat out of use.
And just to clarify, I meant Michael John Harrison (b 1945, short stories from late 60's and novels from early 70's).
This subject makes me realise how dated I am in my fantasy/sci-fi reading. And how happy I am to continue being just that. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 28 Feb 2009 10:18:43 |
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A Publishing Lackey
Seeker
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Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 15:32:40
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Certainly we could name fantasy/sf authors for pages and pages of this thread, hijacking it thoroughly.
That's why I limited myself to those already mentioned. My point wasn't to catalogue all the worthies who should be mentioned (I'm sure Ed or THO or Jorkens or many other scribes could readily list a hundred or more, without much pause), it was to underscore what THO said about the fuzziness of pigeonholing authors as to "generations" or decades or "before and afters." Sorry about getting the wrong Harrison, there; I believe Ed is quite familiar with both (I've seen him talking to Harry at cons, and was in on an e-mail where he once suggested to a publisher that V-Nights and Pastel City were ripe for North American reprints).
And there's nothing at all wrong about being "dated" in one's reading. Except that it too often means favourite authors are too dead to ever pen sequels and new masterpieces for you to read. 
I find the problem to the opposite: newbies who are unaware that derivative, shallow writers of the moment are copying or echoing better, older works, and champion the new writers as groundbreaking geniuses. It means they're missing so much great reading.
And James (again, I've seen Ed trotting around the dealer's aisles at Worldcon with a fat and very expensive complete stories of James under his arm, so I know HE knows James) is indeed, on the ghost story side, one of those older "root" authors (so is Cabell, for that matter).
Cabell, James, Hodgson, and Clark Ashton Smith and Lovecraft once again demonstrate the fuzziness of categorizing; they bridge over the "old classic" and the "pulp" labels (I'm well aware that fans of specific writers and views may disagree, placing a given author firmly in one or the other or a new category). As Ed once said (in a keynote speech at an ALA annual conference, talking to librarians about the inevitable classifying of books libraries do):
"Putting creative works into pigeonholes is an inaccurate, subjective process that at times ALMOST leads to more disputes than it proves useful. Almost. However, that's never a valid argument for not categorizing - - because categorizing is something humans DO. You can't stop it by banning it or refusing to do it. So you might as well do it well."
So saith Ed. Hey, someone who's not THO got to say that, in this thread! Whee! Move over, beautiful hooded lady . . . perhaps right over here, onto my lap . . .
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 15:46:25
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Purrr . . . why, APL, what a delightfully improper suggestion . . .
Let's discuss putting things into handy holes. And ending the molestation of pigeons, in that regard. Ahem.
And yes, I can confirm that Ed is familiar with the writings of M.R. James. By the way, DAUGHTER OF REGALS by Donaldson is one of his fantasy favourites. He loved Chalker's works, too, though he said talking to Jack was like "talking to a belching smokestack; I've never seen a man make a succession of lone cigarettes produce so much smoke!" and thought the Well World tales worked best when we were concentrating on Nathan Brazil or the lives of individuals down in the various hexes or worlds, and started to get away from Jack when we were doing the "wars raging across mutliple hexes." He LOVED the way Jack was able to make weird aliens (the Diviner and the Rell, for instance) seem vividly real. (Not since James Schmitz has someone done that quite so well for multiple alien species, Ed once said.)
However, I firmly agree with APL - - if we continue down this road, we can fill pages and pages of this thread, drifting farther away from the Realms as we go. I hope by now all scribes are familiar with the fact that Ed has 80,000-plus books at home, a good chunk of them one of the best READING (not collecting) fantastic English-language fiction private libraries in Canada, that he's familiar with a lot of writers and their works (from the famous unfinished story fragment he wrote with Roger Zelazny to the world he designed with Lynn Abbey to his early publishing of Rob Sawyer in a university literary magazine, and so on and on), and that if you can think of an "older" fantasy or sf writer, Ed has probably read them and has some of their books at home. Not to mention most of the newer ones; being a judge of the World Fantasy Awards or (as he's doing right now) judging the Sunbursts means you get box after box of current books arriving at your door - - literally HUNDREDS of books. And of course anyone who has seen Ed shopping at cons, as APL has, knows that Ed can't resist picking up more books whenever something catches his eye. He's currently rereading old John Dickson Carr locked-room murder mysteries for fun, as well as reviewing some new chick lit titles for his local library (and recommends folks check out the new Christopher Moore, FOOL, which is King Lear told from the viewpoint of, yes, the Fool/jester).
love to all,
THO |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2009)
Topic Locked
