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Razz
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USA
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Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  18:26:17  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
What language did the Raumathari speak during the rise of their empire? Was it Raumviran or something else?

I am curious because I have a player making a Warforged character who will be discovered as one of Raumathari's secret weapon projects prior to the destruction of their nation (hence, why very few or not all the warforges were used during the war with Narfell).

So pretty much this Warforged will only know Common and the Raumathari language, that's it. I just forgot what the language was known as or if it is indeed Raumviran?

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  18:31:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

I am curious because I have a player making a Warforged character who will be discovered as one of Raumathari's secret weapon projects prior to the destruction of their nation (hence, why very few or not all the warforges were used during the war with Narfell).


Heh, I wrote up an article for the Compendium that uses that same idea.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Oct 2008 18:31:34
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Razz
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Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  21:43:15  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Razz

I am curious because I have a player making a Warforged character who will be discovered as one of Raumathari's secret weapon projects prior to the destruction of their nation (hence, why very few or not all the warforges were used during the war with Narfell).


Heh, I wrote up an article for the Compendium that uses that same idea.



Fitting isn't it?

Everytime I read references to Raumathar, especially the gems about the amount and types of constructs they used, I couldn't help but think "Warforged for the REALMS!" Heck, you can even keep the race's name since Raumathar would've forged them for their war with Narfell. I just couldn't think of a more perfect place and story to fit them into the Realms than there.
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Hoondatha
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USA
2449 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  22:15:23  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I toyed with the idea of making the warforged an Aryvandarn creation from the end of the Crown Wars when the rest of Toril was against them. Only their creator objected and led them deep underground to escape the war, where they've been ever since. I didn't go through with it, partly because my players didn't get as deep into the Underdark as they would have needed, but I did a bunch of thinking about it.

I agree that Raumathar is another seemingly-logical choice, but I'm not sure whether they would have had the magical knowledge. They've been described as nomadic horse people even at the height of their empire (not quite Mongols-with-Magic, but close), with the golem thing only coming toward the very end. Personally, I don't think they would have been able to develop that far that fast, with their cities coming under attack. But if you're looking to add the warforged to the Realms, it a much better choice than most.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  22:25:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Razz

I am curious because I have a player making a Warforged character who will be discovered as one of Raumathari's secret weapon projects prior to the destruction of their nation (hence, why very few or not all the warforges were used during the war with Narfell).


Heh, I wrote up an article for the Compendium that uses that same idea.



Fitting isn't it?

Everytime I read references to Raumathar, especially the gems about the amount and types of constructs they used, I couldn't help but think "Warforged for the REALMS!" Heck, you can even keep the race's name since Raumathar would've forged them for their war with Narfell. I just couldn't think of a more perfect place and story to fit them into the Realms than there.



Well, I did come up with another name for them, simply to avoid calling them "warforged". I tweaked the background a bit, too. And I ruled out most of the warforged components and feats, too, since I didn't think they'd be appropriate with the backstory and small numbers created.

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Hoondatha
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Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  22:27:21  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now I'm interested. I always like to get different viewpoints on something I also played with. What Compendium is it in?

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Razz
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USA
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Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  22:52:48  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I allowed Warforged feats for the player, mainly because we considered those as part of his creation before being discovered and awakened, with future taking of Warforged feats as "downtime upgrades between levels" storyline.

As for components, I have it where those are rare and scattered. His best bet would be to become involved with the crafting of components with an NPC or PC spellcaster/manifester, or do some heavy research.

I'd say the one group interested in resurrecting this sort of magic would definitely be the Gond worshippers. (hmm...that's another anatagonist for this player cause most Gond servants are going to want to capture him now). That'd also definitely be the place for someone like a Warforged in the Realms to turn to for upgrades or warforged components.

I believe another member of the group is going to assist in crafting warforged components for him, if not I'll have to introduce a few places where he'll have to travel to in order to get those.
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Hoondatha
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  00:26:00  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good thought on the Gond angle. I could easily see him quickly coming to have a love/hate relationship with the church, and vice versa. ("No, you can't look at my arm any more. Not until you build me this thing I want.")

In my version, I had a complete society way, way under the ground that had been going for thousands of years, so components and eveyrthing was easy. I found the piece of art with the giant creation forge hanging in mid-air really inspiring, so that's what I built the idea around: the one creation forge they had brought down from the surface. They can use it, but they can't make another one, so it's the center of their society and their defenses.

Numbers interest me, and I got to thinking about what a society with a maximum cap would be like, so I decided the warforged had a specific age that they stopped working at to the day. I then assigned a number of years for the creation forge to make the warforged, and then to recharge. By varying those numbers and how many warforged are created in a "generation" you can get your max cap at whatever you want.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  01:09:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

Now I'm interested. I always like to get different viewpoints on something I also played with. What Compendium is it in?



It's not come out yet.

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Hoondatha
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  01:31:55  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah. Well, that would explain why I can't find it.

Any idea when the next one will come out?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  01:35:02  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The release date for the next Compendium is actually still to be decided.

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Edited by - The Sage on 12 Oct 2008 01:35:47
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  04:09:29  Show Profile Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

So pretty much this Warforged will only know Common and the Raumathari language, that's it.
You should give him Raumathari and old common... just to reward PCs who took ranks in Decipher Script... sorry for the random gaming advice, I can't help it... it comes in sudden flashes from the beyond... etc.
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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
749 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  05:52:18  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight

quote:
Originally posted by Razz

So pretty much this Warforged will only know Common and the Raumathari language, that's it.
You should give him Raumathari and old common... just to reward PCs who took ranks in Decipher Script... sorry for the random gaming advice, I can't help it... it comes in sudden flashes from the beyond... etc.



No, you're right, I was actually thinking of giving him Old Common due to the time period he was created in...Thorass was what it was called wasn't it, I think?

So I assume Raumviran was the name of the Raumathari language, since there's that group of people that descend directly from the Raumathari living in the Hordelands who speak the same language.
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Hoondatha
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  06:16:03  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it might be. The name sounds familiar, at any rate.

On a whim, I looked up the Raumathari Battlemage PrC. Now, I detest PrC's in general and those that try to sub for being part of an organization in particular, but I thought it was interesting to see that in the prereqs it says: "Able to read Roushoum and the Imaskari script." Now, IIRC, Roushoum is the Imaskari language, so the prereq is wanting you to learnt he same language twice. I suppose it's probably a typo, meaning the language of Raumathar and the language of Imaskar (since that's supposedly where they got a bunch of their crafting knowledge).

Not that it helps much, but I thought it was amusing.

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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  06:43:05  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you wanted to make your Warforged truly unique, you could cast him in your FR game as a being similar to Data on Star Trek. Nobody would really know anything major about him; but he would be trying to decipher his own past.

I do remember an Iron Golem in a FR comic book that was sentient though...can't remember its name though...and it may have been a golem with a sentient dwarf I think within. The Raumathari could have simply decided to encase the souls of their dead warriors in new bodies...

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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36779 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  14:51:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

If you wanted to make your Warforged truly unique, you could cast him in your FR game as a being similar to Data on Star Trek. Nobody would really know anything major about him; but he would be trying to decipher his own past.

I do remember an Iron Golem in a FR comic book that was sentient though...can't remember its name though...and it may have been a golem with a sentient dwarf I think within. The Raumathari could have simply decided to encase the souls of their dead warriors in new bodies...



Minder. She was a female dwarf whose soul have been placed in an iron golem. She was in the Forgotten Realms comic.

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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
749 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  19:09:11  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

If you wanted to make your Warforged truly unique, you could cast him in your FR game as a being similar to Data on Star Trek. Nobody would really know anything major about him; but he would be trying to decipher his own past.

I do remember an Iron Golem in a FR comic book that was sentient though...can't remember its name though...and it may have been a golem with a sentient dwarf I think within. The Raumathari could have simply decided to encase the souls of their dead warriors in new bodies...



Minder. She was a female dwarf whose soul have been placed in an iron golem. She was in the Forgotten Realms comic.



Sounds like the author really liked Full Metal Alchemist
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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  19:47:55  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

If you wanted to make your Warforged truly unique, you could cast him in your FR game as a being similar to Data on Star Trek. Nobody would really know anything major about him; but he would be trying to decipher his own past.

I do remember an Iron Golem in a FR comic book that was sentient though...can't remember its name though...and it may have been a golem with a sentient dwarf I think within. The Raumathari could have simply decided to encase the souls of their dead warriors in new bodies...



Minder. She was a female dwarf whose soul have been placed in an iron golem. She was in the Forgotten Realms comic.



THAT'S the one! Thanks Wooly! I actually liked those comics alot, but they are long gone from my collection now...not even sure how I lost them.

Back on topic...and related to Warforged and Minder...

Are there any other sentient golems in the FR?

EDIT: guess that isn't on topic...sorry to hijack!

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 12 Oct 2008 19:48:25
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Hoondatha
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  21:26:31  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not sure about FR, but there are radient golems in Spelljammer. They're an ancient, immortal group of golems created by who-knows-what, and have low intelligence. Unfortunately, they're also surrounded by a permanent death aura that drains 1d6 hit points permanently every day. They don't know they have it, since they know that other beings die, they just assume that people dying within a few days of meeting them is their normal lifespan. They wander the spheres, looking for friends and abhor violence. They're in the first Spelljammer MC, if you want to take a look.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  21:54:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

If you wanted to make your Warforged truly unique, you could cast him in your FR game as a being similar to Data on Star Trek. Nobody would really know anything major about him; but he would be trying to decipher his own past.

I do remember an Iron Golem in a FR comic book that was sentient though...can't remember its name though...and it may have been a golem with a sentient dwarf I think within. The Raumathari could have simply decided to encase the souls of their dead warriors in new bodies...



Minder. She was a female dwarf whose soul have been placed in an iron golem. She was in the Forgotten Realms comic.



Sounds like the author really liked Full Metal Alchemist



Doubtful... The comic predates FMA by 10 years, at least.

That said, it's not all that uncommon an idea.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  21:55:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

Not sure about FR, but there are radient golems in Spelljammer. They're an ancient, immortal group of golems created by who-knows-what, and have low intelligence. Unfortunately, they're also surrounded by a permanent death aura that drains 1d6 hit points permanently every day. They don't know they have it, since they know that other beings die, they just assume that people dying within a few days of meeting them is their normal lifespan. They wander the spheres, looking for friends and abhor violence. They're in the first Spelljammer MC, if you want to take a look.



There are also metagolems, which can become free-willed if their creator is slain. I always really liked the idea, myself.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 12 Oct 2008 :  22:02:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Are there any other sentient golems in the FR?




I'm not recalling any, at the moment... But there are some free-willed helmed horrors wandering around. One, Aragus, was mentioned in the Helmed Horror MC write-up in Halls of the High King. I later queried Ed about it, and got the following reply:

quote:
Hi again, all.
This time I bring some brief words of Ed in response to Wooly Rupert’s Helmed Horror queries: “That of course got me wondering (especially since I've always loved helmed horrors). Is Aragus still around? What are its goals? How is it treated by the folk of Waterdeep? What is its legal status (as in, is it considered a citizen, and if not, what rights does it have?)? Can helmed horrors gain levels or class abilities? And lastly, are there other noteworthy independent helmed horrors out there?”
and:
“And as an addendum to my previous helmed horror questions... Can they be created without the use of a corpse and/or the Doom of Bane spell?”
Ed replies:

Hi, Wooly! Yes, Aragus is still around, but has “faked” its own destruction and is now keeping a low profile, with rooms it can hide out in, in both Dock Ward and North Ward, and using a hargaunt (see my current Knights trilogy of novels) to give it various lifelike “human face” masks.
Its goals remain mysterious (as in, both NDAs and my own unfolding campaign needs to remain silent apply). Most folk in Waterdeep consider Aragus to be “no more” (some Lords know better, but are keeping silent for their own reasons.
No, helmed horrors can’t gain levels or class abilities in the same way that PCs can. They CAN be augmented by wizards (and if playing 3e, insert applicable prestige classes here) of sufficient power and learning, so as to gain hit points, better attacks, particular abilities, etc.
Yes, there are other noteworthy Helmed Horrors active in the Realms right now (I have to check with certain mysterious WotC personages to see if some current NDAs prevent me from discussing two of the most famous/infamous, so I’ll return at some later date with more . . . or not).
And yes, there are several other methods of creating helmed horrors besides using a corpse or a Doom of Bane spell. Magic armor can be mated with a wraith (by means of the right sequence of spells), for one (and other undead can serve, to be “bound into” armor; even simple animated skeletons can be put into armor and spells used to create a crude facsimile of a helmed horror. Augmented battle horrors (the feather fall, dimension door, and magic missile-hurling variants, only “powered up” to do worse things) can be made by a variety of magical processes, and at least one priesthood (Gond’s) has been seeking to craft its own guardian helmed horrors through rituals and prayers (that is, divine magic only, with nary an arcane spell involved; BTW, they have done this thus far unsuccessfully).

So saith Ed.
And I’d like to add a personal postscript to dalor: certainly you can ask me things, and I’ll be quite happy to answer. I’ll probably post an answer to your question that Sage redirected here, tomorrow, but I must run now. The phone we nicknamed “the Bat Phone” years back is ringing, and that means urgent work . . .
love to all,
THO

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Brimstone
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Posted - 13 Oct 2008 :  03:20:59  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I had an idea a while back about the Warforged and the Raumathari. I was thinking that in the final days of their Empire, some of the Raumathari Battle Mages were working on a new weapon. When the leaders of the Raumathari had their Contingency Spells go off in battle their spirits were transfered into the new weapons. Well they have been in stasis since their empire fell, that is until my Game group "Accidently" stumbles apon them and awakens the leaders of the Ancient Raumathari Empire, and now they seek to re-create their Ancient Empire starting with Rashemen. Of course the Durthans manipulated the party into awakening this acient threat, hoping to let the Warforged Raumathari Battle Mages weaken the the nation so they can take control of the country in the aftermath.

-Sorry if that was off tpoic, I just had to share it.


BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
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then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
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Posted - 13 Oct 2008 :  03:34:51  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My own 'unofficial' speculations about warforged-like constructs in the Realms concern both the Raumathar and the Imaskari.

The *jist* of those speculations revolve around the Raumathari potentially gaining access to one of the lost Imaskarcana. This would, perhaps, increase Raumathari knowledge of Imaskari artifice and artificial creation. It would also allow for the opportunity of a House Cannith-styled cabal to rise among the Raumathari, and become responsible for the creation of warforged-styled creations in the ancient Realms.

As I see it, if the Raumathari plundered the depths [or rather were left as vassals] of Inupras, I'd imagine they may have discovered the First Imaskarcana. Or perhaps learned a little about what knowledge it contained. And given that it holds the knowledge of the Imaskari Artificers, this is a possibility. I don't think they'd have used the Fifth Imaskarcana since it doesn't really relate to technical knowledge that would be required for the creation of such constructs, nor the Third Imaskarcana for that matter.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
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Posted - 13 Oct 2008 :  03:38:13  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While we're on this side-topic, I've always thought that one idea for introducing "warforged-like" constructs in the Realms could be built upon using the concept of the 'Wonderstar Garrison' in City of Splendors: Waterdeep, pgs. 120-121.

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Edited by - The Sage on 13 Oct 2008 03:44:13
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Hoondatha
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Posted - 13 Oct 2008 :  04:53:49  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Somewhat off topic, but I've always thought of Raumathar as being balanced between two varieties of magic in their fight against Nar: the battlemages, who were closer to their original horse nomad roots, riding to war and being on the front line of the campaigns, and the artificers (NOT the Eberron class), who were more "civilised" and were based in the cities. I found it grimly amusing that the tradition that ended up surviving was that of the battlemage, despite the horrible casaulties they took in the fighting, since they were away when the cities, and all the artificers, were wiped out.

To tie this into the OP at least a little, I wonder what the warforged's last memories were before being put into whatever stasis brought him to the past. Did he fight in the fall of his city? Or was the concept still too experimental for them to fight? I suppose it might also depend on what class and level he's starting as.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 13 Oct 2008 :  06:56:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

-I had an idea a while back about the Warforged and the Raumathari. I was thinking that in the final days of their Empire, some of the Raumathari Battle Mages were working on a new weapon. When the leaders of the Raumathari had their Contingency Spells go off in battle their spirits were transfered into the new weapons.


That was similar to what I did. I was inspired, of course, by Dragonstar's soulmechs.

I had one mage and his assitants develop two batches of them. The first batch was activated and used in battle; several were known to be destroyed, one was suspected to have been destroyed, and two more remained unaccounted for. The second, later batch was never animated; all they lack is the soul to animate them and someone to actually do it.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Oct 2008 06:57:32
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2008 :  15:36:35  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I don´t like of the warforged concept, but I have some ideas too, abouth Raumathar and his old weapons, and my idea is about the Maugs (Fiend Folio, pags. 121-123). In the description of this intelligent construct, it´s said that

"scholars of planar matters suspect that maugs first served as sock troops in an ancient war between two long-lost empires. In the end, one empire or both discovered some means of transporting the maugs to Thuldanin, the second layer of Acheron and a junkyard of debris from all wars."

If this don´t sound as Narfell-Raumathar wars, I´m a giant space hamster!

So, in my campaigns, in the last wars, Eltab discovered a mean to banish the maugs from Faerűn to some nasty place that he known... in the lower planes. And now, with the group going to stay face to face against Eltab, and one of the heroes being a descendent of the last Emperor of Raumathar, they will need of all man-power (stone-power)that they can achieve...

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2008 :  16:03:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a theory... But the Realms is hardly the only TSR/WotC setting that's had two ancient empires go to war with each other.

Also, in the Narfell-Rauthamar wars, who would have transported the maugs away? For that matter, why to the Abyss? Putting them way behind enemy lines or somewhere else on the same plane is easier than tossing them across the planes. Narfell was using it's power to summon bad things, so they wouldn't have done it. Rauthamar was the one needing constructs, so they wouldn't have done it... No one else had the power...

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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2008 :  16:47:39  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Agreed! But I only DM in the Realms, so, the theory became very interesting to my devious intents.

About your questions:
Who would transport the maugs = Eltab, and some nasty Nar Summonbinders...
Why the Abyss = punishment; in the book,is said that the maugs go to there as prisoners of war(yes, the Carceri is a much better prison, but this will not fit well in my campaign)

That´s the short answers to justify their situation in my campaigns... I pretend to elaborate more, when the time comes to the pcs go to the planes, and stumble in the constructs...

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2008 :  17:09:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

Agreed! But I only DM in the Realms, so, the theory became very interesting to my devious intents.

About your questions:
Who would transport the maugs = Eltab, and some nasty Nar Summonbinders...
Why the Abyss = punishment; in the book,is said that the maugs go to there as prisoners of war(yes, the Carceri is a much better prison, but this will not fit well in my campaign)

That´s the short answers to justify their situation in my campaigns... I pretend to elaborate more, when the time comes to the pcs go to the planes, and stumble in the constructs...



I dunno... That's still a heck of a lot of power being expended, and not to the best effect. I'm also not seeing why the Nar would go out of their way to weaken the other side instead of strengthening themselves, too. Summoning more baddies for themselves takes less effort and is of a more direct benefit. And Eltab may be powerful, but planeshifting a large number of unwilling foes all at once? No, I don't see it.

And perhaps the most important point is that nothing in existing Realmslore suggests that the Rauthamar developed the maugs -- or, more importantly -- lost a large number of troops outside of the Great Conflagration.

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