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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
738 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 10:48:02
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Edit 1: The official link points to Excerpts: Chult. I'm leaving the rest of this post as is, since the old link still also works for now.
A bit of a preview preview*:
Excerpts: Chult
* I was playing around and found this by adding an "a" to the second Excerpts: Loudwater URL.
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Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Edited by - Kyrene on 06 Aug 2008 06:37:28
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 11:24:35
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Hmm, I feel a touch of pedantry coming on.
"More than one civilization lies forgotten in the dark heart of the jungle."
I think that would be better rephrased as either: "The remnants of more than one civilization lies forgotten in the dark heart of the jungle" or "More than one civilization lies waiting to be discovered in the dark heart of the jungle."
Civilisations tend to be aware of other civilisations since trade tends to be carried out by civilisations. And they tend to not only have borders but to know what lies beyond them.
Now, assuming that this in Points of Light and everything has gone wrong and we've got a few small places trying to re-establish civilisation then Chult is either home to the remains of collapsed civilisations or to new cultures that are growing.
Civilisations aren't forgotten because they either become history and legend or some enterprising souls keep contact between the two going. Whether that be by trade or adventuring.
For example, Rome knew of India because of the empire of Alexandra. Rome possibly knew of places like China and middle Africa because of the Persian empire and Nubia. That is, they knew of their neighbours' neighbours.
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
738 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 14:51:27
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| This was better than the Loudwater excerpts... But I have to wonder about some of the unsaid things, particularly what happened to Ubtao and his barae. I fear that he'll also suffer the divine nerfing, which will be a serious retcon, with his duties watching for Dendar's emergence. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 14:55:02
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| This is an improvement over the old Chult , how? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 16:07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
This is an improvement over the old Chult , how?
It isn't, in any way that I can determine. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 17:19:30
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The "ruins of Mezro"? That says it all, in my view. Sorry--I just liked the old Realms better, and that's it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 18:01:55
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Well, I can't say it's terrible. Certainly better than the Loudwater excerpt (and that could be improved by the other information about Loudwater in the FRCS, I don't really see how, but it's possible)
Regardless, doesn't do much to wet my appetite. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 18:19:07
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Yeah, this pretty much just reinforces the fact that my feeling towards the 4e Realms is best described as akin to the one I got when I was five and they renovated the neighbourhood playground - sure, it had lots of cool new stuff in it, but it wasn't the stuff that I had loved playing with.
(So I started to play at a different, playground three- or four-hundred metres further away. Not sure, but one may find a point to this post in that... ) |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 18 Jul 2008 18:21:08 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 21:40:29
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Excellent
Its got the cut marks, colour bars and registration marks as well!
Seriously, it is much better than Loudwater, but then again that not too difficult (my 2 year old daughter makes up better stories than that Loudwater nonsense).
Cheers
Damian
ps nice find! Kyrene
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 18 Jul 2008 23:23:04 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
738 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 09:21:54
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| As a fellow -- part-time -- mapmaker, I am very impressed with the graphics of the map. Makes it look almost like a satellite photo or such of the area. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 12:04:03
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Ruins of Mezro, wtf, they continued to ruin FR
Chult is too close to Calimshan, the map is much less detailed, looks better than the map of Cormyr, but is much less interesting
too many ziggurats and pyramids |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 12:27:20
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Oooh... 'Pyramid of the Moon' dedicated to Selune, Lady of Revels and Endless Celebration!  Um, now, if Selune has a pyramid, and there's going to be a published adventure called 'Pyramid of Shadows'... can you guess how that module will be "converted" to the Realms? Hint: there is a very "trendy" FR goddess whose name has four letters... 
Seriously, a bit better than the Loudwater excerpt, but still nowhere near as good as the 'Cormyr' excerpt. Evil gold coins? A sarcophagus "from which writhe animate vines"? My four-year old nephew could come up with better story ideas, and probably express those ideas in a more inspiring manner.
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"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 14:13:25
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quote:
Ruins of Mezro?
I don't have a problem with this given what happened to Chult during the spellplague. Makes sense that if something as dramtic as Abeir appearing in the same place as Toril then catastrophe will happen.
I agree with the pyramids and ziggurats though - not a fan, and not really a fan of all the cannibal tribes either.
Hey-ho
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 02:16:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
As a fellow -- part-time -- mapmaker, I am very impressed with the graphics of the map. Makes it look almost like a satellite photo or such of the area.
I have to say this map did nothing for me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 02:18:31
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
I don't have a problem with this given what happened to Chult during the spellplague.
Damian
That's just it--I have a problem with the Spellplague. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 01:11:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
I don't have a problem with this given what happened to Chult during the spellplague.
Damian
That's just it--I have a problem with the Spellplague.
I too have a problem with the spellplague, but as it has happened for the new 4E realms it makes sense that catastrophe happens and things change.
We are agreed that in this case the 'change' brought about by the spellplague/4E is unwanted, illogical and a very poor design choice.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 03:10:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I have to say this map did nothing for me.
Ditto.
While the Cormyr one was way beyond my meager skills, this thing looked like a poorly made map for a video game. 
And I actually wanted this to happen to Chult - I did this same thing years ago in my campaign (breaking it off). Even though they did what I did, I really think they didn't do it very well.
I don't really understand it's new position either - continental plates simply do not move that much in a century. Magic is all well and good, but how does that explain how Chult became a 'floating' island? 
Especially since the Volcanoes are still in the same freakin' place!!! 
Do the lava-tubes have a 'wireless connection'? I mean really, WTF? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 05:52:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't really understand it's new position either - continental plates simply do not move that much in a century. Magic is all well and good, but how does that explain how Chult became a 'floating' island?
Especially since the Volcanoes are still in the same freakin' place!!!
Do the lava-tubes have a 'wireless connection'? I mean really, WTF?
In answer to your question, there is a perfectly simple explaination:
it's called a Wi-Fi HOT SPOT!   |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Edited by - Talwyn on 22 Jul 2008 05:53:36 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
738 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 07:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
As a fellow -- part-time -- mapmaker, I am very impressed with the graphics of the map. Makes it look almost like a satellite photo or such of the area.
I have to say this map did nothing for me.
Perhaps I should explain. What I've always had a problem with, with the 3.xE style map -- and indeed the new one in Brian's excellent Cormyr article -- is that different ecological zones do not overlap. There actually are hills inside forests, or jungles reaching up the sides of mountains, or deserts encroaching on plains. Despite everything else that is wrong -- wrong geographical location of the whole peninsula/island for instance -- with this new Chultan map, I thought the ecological zone "blurring" with this style is very well done. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 14:04:19
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Seems to me that the only thing changing is the attitude of Candlekeep forum members. Reading the comments on news like this is not pleasing as it used to be, at least this is my overall sensation.
The same news out in 3.5 time would have given a totally different reaction by some of the very same members. How many times have I seen pleading for new Chult lore or even for some small bits of Chult info?
I'm pleased this part of the Realm is getting more attention.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 15:35:44
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While I agree Chult has been long overdue for an update, this is not what we wanted. They changed the entire flavor of the place - its now a Tarzan/Apocalypto crossbreed that seems to have become the new Maztica/Hepmonland.
And instead of a highly-civilized nation of educated 'black people', we got naked savages running around the jungles, half of which have become cannibals, and all of them getting gobbled up by dinosaurs.
Which, BTW, were always present in Chult - another point that confuses me. In 4e, dinosaurs have been re-named 'Behemoths', and that excerpt makes it appear Behemoths are something new to Chult, when in reality, all WotC did was change the name of a pre-existing group of creatures!
While I'm sure Brian's excellent article's omission of any important females was a mere over-sight, the 'dumbing down' of black people in FR REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Although I never used Mezro, it made me feel good that the Realms broke the mold and made the one human racial group living there (the Tabaxi) into civilized scholars.
Now instead of one unified group, the Tabaxi have broken up into smaller tribes that make war on each other and eat people... how quaint. 
What they did was push the entire setting back 30-40 years culturally, and the Realms forward-thinking 'equal-rights' has been repealed.
I don't mind the 'de-unification' - I suppose that was neccessary to make the place more interesting, but what I really don't get is how a place with an 'Aficanesque' flavor got stepped pyramids and a Central-American feel all of a sudden.
They didn't remove Maztica... they just moved it!
Anyhow, both the Paizo team and Monte Cook (in regards to his own product line) have made sure there was always an equal representation of races and gender in their products - in fact, they even have a 'manifesto' for their products with lists of 'do-nots'. It seems WotC really needs to look over their articles and sourcebook material a little closer, because they are alienating entire groups - probably without even realizing it.
This isn't the 70's anymore - and although I can appreciate the 'retro feel' the new rules try to capture, going back to the old days with stereotypes everywhere isn't going to sit well with a lot of folks.
Sorry if I went slightly off-topic here - I was going to start another thread to discuss the 'social issues', but opted against yet another anti-WotC thread. I'm REALLY trying to like this new setting, but its fighting me the whole way.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Jul 2008 22:07:46 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 16:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
Perhaps I should explain. What I've always had a problem with, with the 3.xE style map -- and indeed the new one in Brian's excellent Cormyr article -- is that different ecological zones do not overlap. There actually are hills inside forests, or jungles reaching up the sides of mountains, or deserts encroaching on plains. Despite everything else that is wrong -- wrong geographical location of the whole peninsula/island for instance -- with this new Chultan map, I thought the ecological zone "blurring" with this style is very well done.
It took me awhile to 'get it', but I came to realize as I did my own mapping that the world map is just that - a WORLD map (or at least the main portion of the main continent). Fine details are missing because they are not neccessary on such a generalized representation. I've noted that the smaller regional maps (like the ones in SM and SS) contain those details, like mountains, hills, and forests all over-lapping. I've tried to put some of that back into my own versions, but its not easy (until recently) for me to accomplish the effect with it looking reasonable.
At any rate, I understand totally what you are saying about 'realism' with the map - but I've always personally found satelite photos pretty damn boring. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Jul 2008 20:45:29 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 17:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wizbane
Seems to me that the only thing changing is the attitude of Candlekeep forum members. Reading the comments on news like this is not pleasing as it used to be, at least this is my overall sensation.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pretend to like something I don't like. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 17:57:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
Perhaps I should explain. What I've always had a problem with, with the 3.xE style map -- and indeed the new one in Brian's excellent Cormyr article -- is that different ecological zones do not overlap. There actually are hills inside forests, or jungles reaching up the sides of mountains, or deserts encroaching on plains.
Very true--point taken. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 18:12:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wizbane
Seems to me that the only thing changing is the attitude of Candlekeep forum members. Reading the comments on news like this is not pleasing as it used to be, at least this is my overall sensation.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pretend to like something I don't like.
Nor am I. And I'm going to disagree that our attitudes are the only thing changing. Most of us were quite content with the Realms, right up until we found out about the Sellplague and the timejump.
Honestly, I hate all of the negativity, which has been running rampant of late. But at the same time, I don't see it as being the fault of anyone here -- we didn't make the decision to move things into this direction. I would fight the negativity if I could -- in fact, I tried, with the "give it a shot" approach I counseled for a couple of months. I have, in fact, held my tongue on a number of occasions, because I've said my piece already. Sometimes I do feel compelled to speak, but I've held back a lot of comments.
Right now, the only way I can see to stem the tide of negativity is to get WotC to change their plans. And that's not going to happen... So really, I'm just waiting for us to get our two FR books and the module, and for WotC to move on to something else. Because then it'll all be done with, and we can get back to discussing other things. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 16:42:23
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Well, negativity doesn't really help, criticism does. Thankfully many of those disliking the new Realms here (the "new" Realms... oh oh... did I say that? *urgh*) are capable of discerning criticism from plain bashing, so I hope the purpose of "redirecting" WotC plans with this kind of feedback will prove successful in the long term. I would not be very confident about it tough... so, well, just enjoy whatever comes in our way.
I survived the cancellation of the Planescape line, the Time of Troubles, the Horde (roll eyes) and the ascension of Drizzt. I'll survive whatever the new FRCS will offer, so no reason for not enjoying the preview season.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 17:17:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wizbane
Well, negativity doesn't really help, criticism does. Thankfully many of those disliking the new Realms here (the "new" Realms... oh oh... did I say that? *urgh*) are capable of discerning criticism from plain bashing, so I hope the purpose of "redirecting" WotC plans with this kind of feedback will prove successful in the long term. I would not be very confident about it tough... so, well, just enjoy whatever comes in our way.
I don't think most people here have any grand plans about trying to "redirect" WotC's plans for the FR setting. For the most part, people are just giving their opinions, and being polite about it.
quote:
I survived the cancellation of the Planescape line, the Time of Troubles, the Horde (roll eyes) and the ascension of Drizzt. I'll survive whatever the new FRCS will offer, so no reason for not enjoying the preview season.
Everyone will "survive" the new setting, it's just that many people are choosing not to implement the new changes into their Realms.
Note that I agree with Wooly when he says the Realms are changing, and the changes are pretty major. We have the Spellplague AND the merging of another world AND a time-jump ahead of 100 years. Who can argue with a straight face that the Realms are pretty much the same, and the only "change" is in the attitude of the posters here? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 23 Jul 2008 17:20:04 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 18:25:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Note that I agree with Wooly when he says the Realms are changing, and the changes are pretty major. We have the Spellplague AND the merging of another world AND a time-jump ahead of 100 years.
Not mention the culling of the pantheon down to 20-30 deities. That and the using of the Spellplague and re-merging with Abeir to selectively keep/destroy/create whatever the hell they want to fit the Realms into the 4e cookie cutter sticks in my craw the most. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 23 Jul 2008 18:27:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 19:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Note that I agree with Wooly when he says the Realms are changing, and the changes are pretty major. We have the Spellplague AND the merging of another world AND a time-jump ahead of 100 years.
Not mention the culling of the pantheon down to 20-30 deities. That and the using of the Spellplague and re-merging with Abeir to selectively keep/destroy/create whatever the hell they want to fit the Realms into the 4e cookie cutter sticks in my craw the most.
You know, I've given a lot of thought to ways to implement some of the Sellplague changes without resorting to the Sellplague. I've figured out ways to replace Mystra and reduce the number of her Chosen, and I'm working on how to import dragonborn in a manner more consistent with established Realmslore.
I've also mostly figured out how to get rid of the Shadow Weave.
I won't, however, blow up/replace geographic areas, introduce floating islands, or cull the deific ranks.
I also figured out another way around Mystra's ban against time-travel, allowing post-Sellplague PCs to get back to before the Sellplague to undo it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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FRCS second preview - Chult
