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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 05:13:07
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Here is a link to the first preview from the FRCS.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080715
A couple of NPCS from Loudwater. I hate to critic too much bedore seeing the thing but the text seems so blend.
"Hello adventurer, i am a wizard!"
It reads like the dialogues from the old Dungeon master Comic on TV. Have they really geared everything for the 12 years old?
Maybe it's me..it's late and i'm hungry.
I hope i'm wrong though.
PAt
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Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 07:04:20
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Patrakis,
I completely agree with you. The preview is very short for a DDI article and written in a bland and uninteresting tone. The "hooks" are all-too obvious and dull, and what also bothered me was that Lady Moonfire doesn't apparently even have a first name. If this is supposed to be a preview of FRCG, it seems that the end product doesn't have much of the "spirit" of "feel" of the Realms left anymore.
I wonder what should have happened to the Dire Wood and the power of the Dying God when the Spellplague happened? Did the Heart and the power of Karsus survive through it? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 07:05:13
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| In all likelihood you aren't wrong. With wotzee it seems to be that even when you are expecting the worst you can still be disappointed. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 11:44:43
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| By Mystra's lost spell, it's dull. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 13:33:54
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
By Mystra's lost spell, it's dull.
It certainly is a rather underwhelming choice for a preview...
I also found myself bugged by Lady Moonfire's name. Not only was the lack of a first name notable, but the name Moonfire seems to have come right off of a list of generic fantasy names. The other guy's name at least seemed to have some thought put into it.
I think what bugs me most about the article is that there just isn't much to these PCs. They are rather bland, and it seems almost like they are simply there to fill a role, instead of being actual people. The quest-giver analogy is a good one, I fear. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jul 2008 13:38:27 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 14:14:22
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Reading that makes me wonder where my old commodore and copy of pool of radience is |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 14:51:27
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| Very dull indeed... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 14:51:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think what bugs me most about the article is that there just isn't much to these PCs. They are rather bland, and it seems almost like they are simply there to fill a role, instead of being actual people. The quest-giver analogy is a good one, I fear.
Instant adventure, just ad PCs!
And here I was thinking that even though I feel the setting's been trashed, WotC would not put ready made adventures in the Campaign guide and leave it all to DMs. Oh well, naive little me. Still not going to buy it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 15:07:26
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| I think what bothers me most is that it simply doesn't feel like something written for the Realms. And it's very odd that the first preview for a campaign setting book doesn't really feel like it was written for that campaign setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jul 2008 15:08:08 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 16:07:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think what bothers me most is that it simply doesn't feel like something written for the Realms. And it's very odd that the first preview for a campaign setting book doesn't really feel like it was written for that campaign setting.
Wooly, it was written for a campaign setting, just not a campaign setting most of us will like, or even appreciate.
It looks like those and any other info will be expanded on in DDI, in the same quality as most recent Realmslore-- I heartily encourage Realms-fans who want to give their money to wotzee to purchase vomit resistant keyboard, mouse and monitor... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 17:06:17
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After further musing on this excerpt and theorizing that is translates well what the new FRCS will contain, i'm inclined to believe that the new FRCS will be like a big blob of meat with no flavor... just white, translucent mather that taste nothing, smells nothing and feels nothing. It seems they found a way to unfluffarize the fluff of the old setting that i loved so much and transform it in one or two catch phrases without any style.
Now all we have to do as good old DMs is to choose a flavor powder of our choices (just like movie theatre where you can put pizza flavor powder on your bland popcorn)and pour it over the setting to give it some life.
I will dearly miss the immensely profound and compelling world that Mr Greenwood offered us 20 years ago. All i can hope is that the section writen by the creator wont be diluted to the point of reading like what we got in this preview.
I still have hope but that blow made me put a knee on the ground and i accept a count to ten to get my wind back. The next one might finish me.
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 17:54:49
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 And the overwhelming sense of dread strikes me yet again. The closer and closer we get, the more and more I wish that WotC had put the Realms to rest and just continued with the novel line and created a new CS to spotlight 4e...   |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 17:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
And the overwhelming sense of dread strikes me yet again. The closer and closer we get, the more and more I wish that WotC had put the Realms to rest and just continued with the novel line and created a new CS to spotlight 4e...
They did create a new CS. It just happens to share a name and a handful of details with an old one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 19:40:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
By Mystra's lost spell, it's dull.
I would agree that this very short article didn't really go into detail about the personalities of these NPCs, even though that's what the article was supposed to be about...
Quest givers indeed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Jul 2008 19:42:03 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 19:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Why doesn't she have any interest in civic duties? If she doesn't, why is she still the de facto town leader? Does she think everyone else is incompetent?
LOL, good question. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 20:04:33
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I haven't run a PC that would be interested in those hooks since I was 13. I haven't run a game with hooks that bland in . . . well, a damned long time.
All in all, it makes me wonder just what they're doing at the WotC offices. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 21:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I haven't run a PC that would be interested in those hooks since I was 13. I haven't run a game with hooks that bland in . . . well, a damned long time.
All in all, it makes me wonder just what they're doing at the WotC offices.
Unfortunately they are just counting beans, trying how to get more of our beans over into their pile. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 22:44:25
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Well...I had hoped for Cormyr in Dragon today...but we get:
Curuvar -Elminster can't be here because he suffers a severe personality disorder and you are only 1 lvl anyway- the Brazen
and
Lady 'Lacksname' -Eilistraee had to die so I could get one of her divine spells as my familyname- Moonfire.
The Art... Although it's not as bad as i feared after seeing some pics from the Core-Books, I would prevere pics by Lockwood and Eva Widerman anytime.
Hm, yes for a 'first' preview quite disappointing (Amn was more like it).
But maybe we should remember that these NSCs are part of the 1. Chapter 'Loudwater', a small city, that's a little bit fleshed out to generate a campaign start for the new target group 'Never played DnD'(I agree with the people who say we don't need something like this).
If you consider how NSCs were sometimes 'fleshed out' in let's say "Volo's Guide to..." (which i enjoyed quite alot) these discriptions are almost generous for NSCs as unimportent to the Realms as a whole as these two. They 're after all only the generic city-lord(lady) and the generic wizard whom your group will meet like five times in five different small towns on a good travelling day.
Although I would have liked to see some more powerful NSCs like Elminster as a preview, that probably would have shocked all the Chosen-Haters, Drizzt-Killers and Elminster-Wannabes out there, who hope that this edition will actually be only about their heros and not about overpowered Novel-NSCs who steal their glory 
Best wishes
Lirdolin |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 22:55:34
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Yeah, but in a preview for a setting book, you'd expect either A) an interesting and/or prominent NPC of that setting, or B) some interesting region of that setting.
Since Loudwater is chapter one, an overview of the city, with at least a couple points of interest and a notable NPC (like a Watch commander or a non-generic wizard), would have been more appropriate. And likely a lot more well-received. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 23:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Unfortunately they are just counting beans, trying how to get more of our beans over into their pile.
Unless the FRCG stuns my socks off (which this preview did nothing to convince me that it will), then they will be getting none of my beans! I am only going to check it out out of respect for Ed and his hard work, otherwise I could say they definitely would not be getting any of my beans. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 00:18:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
But maybe we should remember that these NSCs are part of the 1. Chapter 'Loudwater', a small city, that's a little bit fleshed out to generate a campaign start for the new target group 'Never played DnD'(I agree with the people who say we don't need something like this).
Actually, I do think the concept of it is a good one, especially if the goal is to make new players feel comfortable (and in my opinion that should *always* be the goal, no matter what edition we're talking about). Remember that the 3E FRCS had some small sample adventures in it, if not a fleshed out town. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 Jul 2008 00:19:03 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 00:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
But maybe we should remember that these NSCs are part of the 1. Chapter 'Loudwater', a small city, that's a little bit fleshed out to generate a campaign start for the new target group 'Never played DnD'(I agree with the people who say we don't need something like this).
Actually, I do think the concept of it is a good one, especially if the goal is to make new players feel comfortable (and in my opinion that should *always* be the goal, no matter what edition we're talking about). Remember that the 3E FRCS had some small sample adventures in it, if not a fleshed out town.
Having that be in the book doesn't bother me. Giving us a preview like this one does. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 00:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Having that be in the book doesn't bother me. Giving us a preview like this one does.
Well yeah, I'm with you there. Mainly because it doesn't even say very much about the NPCs, themselves. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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chance87
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 01:55:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I haven't run a PC that would be interested in those hooks since I was 13. I haven't run a game with hooks that bland in . . . well, a damned long time.
All in all, it makes me wonder just what they're doing at the WotC offices.
Unfortunately they are just counting beans, trying how to get more of our beans over into their pile.
Chance looks at his pile of beans reserved for spending on RPG material. Chance sadly puts the lion's share of beans back in his pocket, stuffing a handful in a baggie labeled "4 Paizo!" |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 06:38:41
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It's exactly as if the Realms -- the richness, humanity and subtlety introduced by Ed's early Dragon articles and the Old Grey Box -- never happened. Evolution, huh?
(Other than that, it looks rather like the Freedale material in the 1995 Introduction to AD&D box.) |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
747 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 07:20:35
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"By Mystra’s lost spell, you wouldn’t believe what a dull race goblins are!"
By Cyric's silken corset, I didn't think anyone still remembered Mystra in the Year of the Ageless One? |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 07:46:57
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I liked it.
<runs for cover> |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 10:21:48
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| I'm putting my dibs in for "By Tempus' mighty jockstrap" |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Edited by - Talwyn on 16 Jul 2008 10:22:35 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 12:01:53
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Curuvar sounds a lot like Curunir and Curumo, and Loudwater is a direct lift. Why not be fair and use the name "Loudwind"?
I think I can do better.
Curvilinear - This middle-aged man looks as though he's just staggered out from the pages of an illustrated history of wizards, the one with the really big font and the paint by numbers pictures. With a long black beard that is decorated with semi=precious stones, a robe stitched with astrological symbols, a staff set with a fossilized turd, and a pointed hat, which he calls Gundulf, Curvilinear would stand out even among other wizards, simply because they would run away from him very quickly.
However, once his trust is earned, it becomes clear he is fond of the phrase “by Baghtru’s imagination.”
“Yes, I did indeed sneak into the barrow. By Baghtru’s imagination, you wouldn’t believe what a dull race goblins are! It's almost as if they are just designed to stand around all-day waiting to be killed by some big, dumb ox of an adventurer. Present company excluded, of course."
My wizardry easily incapacitated them. Or was it my whiskey breath? However, I didn’t find what I wanted. Although, there were two of everything else. I took the horn totem as a souvenir. It makes a very charming paper-weight and I polish my horn totem often. Tell you what—if you recover the matching skull totem from the barrow, I’ll tell you the truth about the Ogre King. Will you be friends and buy your old buddy a drink?”
At this Curvilinear staggers off muttering "It's not unusual to be loved by anyone..."
As for Lady Moonfire, she looks fairly foxy. Alas, her description doesn't add to that first impression. She's a half-elf living in a house described as "a jewel of dwarven craftsmanship." That jars a little.
She's regarded as the head of the town but leaves her duties to others. So, surely she's regarded as a wealthy socialite then and the townsfolk will have another person they regard as the actual head of the town.
With names like the Green Tankard tavern and Dire Wood it's clear that the designers are just making names up on the spot. What's wrong with the Green Dragon...a hah I see what you've done! It's a good job that Loudwater isn't a flooded river estuary otherwise the adventurers might have to explore the Dire Ria.
I think this phrase sums it all up: "Your abilities match your ambitions, it seems." They certainly do. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 13:15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Curuvar sounds a lot like Curunir and Curumo, and Loudwater is a direct lift. Why not be fair and use the name "Loudwind"?
I think I can do better.
Curvilinear - This middle-aged man looks as though he's just staggered out from the pages of an illustrated history of wizards, the one with the really big font and the paint by numbers pictures. With a long black beard that is decorated with semi=precious stones, a robe stitched with astrological symbols, a staff set with a fossilized turd, and a pointed hat, which he calls Gundulf, Curvilinear would stand out even among other wizards, simply because they would run away from him very quickly.
However, once his trust is earned, it becomes clear he is fond of the phrase “by Baghtru’s imagination.”
“Yes, I did indeed sneak into the barrow. By Baghtru’s imagination, you wouldn’t believe what a dull race goblins are! It's almost as if they are just designed to stand around all-day waiting to be killed by some big, dumb ox of an adventurer. Present company excluded, of course."
My wizardry easily incapacitated them. Or was it my whiskey breath? However, I didn’t find what I wanted. Although, there were two of everything else. I took the horn totem as a souvenir. It makes a very charming paper-weight and I polish my horn totem often. Tell you what—if you recover the matching skull totem from the barrow, I’ll tell you the truth about the Ogre King. Will you be friends and buy your old buddy a drink?”
At this Curvilinear staggers off muttering "It's not unusual to be loved by anyone..."
As for Lady Moonfire, she looks fairly foxy. Alas, her description doesn't add to that first impression. She's a half-elf living in a house described as "a jewel of dwarven craftsmanship." That jars a little.
She's regarded as the head of the town but leaves her duties to others. So, surely she's regarded as a wealthy socialite then and the townsfolk will have another person they regard as the actual head of the town.
With names like the Green Tankard tavern and Dire Wood it's clear that the designers are just making names up on the spot. What's wrong with the Green Dragon...a hah I see what you've done! It's a good job that Loudwater isn't a flooded river estuary otherwise the adventurers might have to explore the Dire Ria.
I think this phrase sums it all up: "Your abilities match your ambitions, it seems." They certainly do.
By Sune's Sheer Stockings that was funny stuff!!!
You forgot his pipe with which he can blow smoke into any shape he wishes, Elfinster. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 13:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Well, Loudwater has been in the Realms canon since the Old Grey Box.
By Abbathor's purse, you're right. Sorry about that.
Although, to be fair, the river Loudwater has been in the Lord of the Rings canon for a bit longer. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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FRCS first preview
