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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 16:17:19
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In all of my FR campaigns, being a priest always means following one specific deity. Afaik, the standard cleric class in 2e was not deity-specific (...of course, I can be wrong here - please correct me!).
Is there anything like that in the Realms? Clerics that pray (for spells!) to more than one god? I can envision clerics that serve a coulpe of deities that are friendly to each other, like Tyr and Torm, Shaundakul and Waukeen, Mystra and Azuth, etc. I also think that this would be more common among good and neutral deities, as evil gods tend to be more jealous (at least thats my gut feeling).
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 16:46:49
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IIRC a standard AD&D 2nd Ed. cleric class was dedicated to one or more deities.
My two cents worth on Clerics in the Realms:
We know that the religious system in the Realms is not centered on only one god. the common people pay homage to lots of different gods at different occasions and even their patron deity might change several times over the course of their lives.
Following that thinking, I see it as a very likely posibility that a cleric of one god might pray to or make little sacrifices in the name of other gods as well, especially those that his main god is allied with. However, I doubt that a cleric would actually recieve spells from several gods at once. And asuming that this was actually possible, I doubt, that the cleric would be aware of it.
I could very well imagine that Ed has answered to this at some point. Howver, I have to leave this up to othger scribes to digg up or you might what to search through his answers yourself.
Another matter entirely are those clerics that have not one particular god they worship but focus only on certain aspects such as good, evil, chaos or law. As to whether these types of clerics do exist in the Realms I don't know and have to pass this question on to other scribes as well. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 23 Feb 2008 16:52:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 16:50:09
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By the rules, clerics in the Realms have to worship a deity. You can't worship a cause in the Realms if you want anything in return (like spells).
Priests serving more than one deity is certainly possible. A notable example is the traitor-priestesses that serve Lolth and secretly serve Vhaeraun as well.
In most cases, though, deities won't share their servants.  |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 17:16:50
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Prayers from the Faithful:quote:
It is the nature of even the most devout beings, if they possess an ounce of courage or intellect, to need to know more and better prayers to serve their deity (or deities, for there are many who serve more than one divine name).
Ed:quote:
And yes, it IS possible for a “divine related class character to serve more than one deity.” It’s rare, both due to the nature of worship/devotion and the rarity of close divine “sharing,” and it MUST be a matter of extensive roleplaying. As a result, the DM must want to explore this as much as the player, so for it to successfully be incorporated into a campaign, the DM must have the say over whether or not he or she wants to explore this (allow it). “Serving two masters” is never easy, and should result in ongoing moral dilemmas, tests, and the occasional tug-of-war between the two deities over the deeds and loyalties of the character. It can form a great “heart” for a one-on-one (one player and one DM, or at most two players and a DM) campaign, however.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 17:31:24
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Ha! I knew if there was word from Ed out there about this matter it would not be long until somemone of you would provide it! There you have it than, tauster, the answer to your question by Ed himself! 
And I stand corrected - at least somewhat!  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 23 Feb 2008 17:32:32 |
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TheLemming
Acolyte
Austria
16 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 18:35:52
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Well given the allies in several pantheons I wouldn't see a problem there, is there one?
I mean imagine a worshipper of the "old" triad, or a group of elven gods.
It would be quite rare probably but I think it's a quite nice way to create a unique character. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 21:09:44
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| Plus there is a handful, mostly in the old material, of divine casters that have more then one deity listed. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 03:44:44
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Quilué (sp?) the Seventh Sister is a prime example of someone who must perforce acknowledge two deities, who have so far seemed content to share her.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 04:47:32
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| Qilué Veladorn, Chosen of both Eilistraee and Mystra. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 05:41:39
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| Qilué is a unique example. Her Chosen of Eilistraee title means two things: she's as loyal to Eilistraee as to Mystra [in daily practise, as shown in Silverfall, more so], and Eilistraee foresees using her in some great task [i.e. a not-yet-revealed destiny]. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 06:54:42
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| Wasn't Khelben Blackstaff also blessed by more than one deity also? This was mentioned in the novel Blackstaff but I'm not too sure about his relationship with the other deities. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 11:46:12
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There's also a priestess serving both Oghma and Corellon Larethian in Neverwinter: "Salyndra Shaern is an NG hef P14 of both
Oghma and Corellon Larethian." (Volo's Guide to the North, p. 134). |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 16:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
...and Eilistraee foresees using her in some great task...
...to avert the Sellplague?
*ducks, runs and hides*
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 19:13:48
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Thanks for the numerous answers and examples, friends!
Now that I know that following two (or more) gods is possible, I came up with a sample character: Blim Roundstone, a gnome pretending to be a halfling, following Baravar Cloakshadow as well as a couple of other gods. His deepes loyality goes to Baravar (he is a Hoodwinker - a speciality priest of the Sly One) but he also venerates Brandobaris, Erevan Ilesere, Leira, Tymora, Mystra and Shaundakul and prays to them more often than others would. He might or might not get spells or other boons from these gods, that's up to the DM. I plan to make him a memorable example of someone who is favoured by more than one deity without using memorized spells from the other gods, but each DM can change that to fit his or her campaign.
After I started the write-up, I quickly realized that describing him outside the context of his surroundings would not do him justice, so much of the text has not directly to do with his "multi-piety".
More about Kala Moya will follow in some time, as I plan to explore the village at the edge of the Anauroch more. Perhaps as part of the effort to fill the gaps of realmslore, as Kala Moya might be involved in the dwarven crusade to reconquer Tethyamar.
Frim and Blim, the gnomish halflings
History of Kala Moya
Kala Moya is a settlement at the southeastern corner of the Anuaroch, mainly populated by D’tarig. The village’s name means “Whispering Waters” in the tongue of the Bedine, referring to the small river that flows through the village and whose purling can be heard thoughout the canyon. Shortly before the creek leaves the canyon, it flows upward(!) for a distance of about thrice a man’s height, where the reversed waterfall enters a cave that spills out of a rock face a few hundred meter to the west and then flows through a wadi into the Anauroch, where it drains away after a dozen miles. The reversed gravity affects only fluids and small items that float. The effect has been examined and analyzed countless times without any commonly known results and is thought to be a remnant of ancient Netherese or Anaurian magic.
Kala Moya is located at the second river that pours down from the foothills of the Desertsmouth Mountains when one comes from Tilverton, and was one of the first places where the Zhentarim gained a foothold. One day a few decades ago they appeared with a force of about fifty hardened warriors and few priests of Bane and a handful of wizards in Black Robes at the villages gates. They did not threaten anyone but declared that they were here to clean the old mines of monsters said to inhabit the buried cave complex at the end of the canyon sheltering Kala Moya.
After three weeks of hard shoveling, mainly done by locals who were well-paid, and while the Zhents erected a small cluster of huts for themselves, the cave entry was free. Half of the forces entered and were almost immediately attacked by the cave’s inhabitants: Orogs, Goblins and Barghests. The next few days saw another few battles, until one morning the Zhents declared the battle over and the caves cleaned.
But instead of going home, the foreigners stayed. They brought more people to Kala Moya, among them many slaves. While slavery did not sit well with the locals, few complained openly, as the strangers treated the locals very well. They formed trade relations with clans from the village that became wealthy in the course of a few months. Some of those who were most articulate against the Zhents …disapeared, or suddenly changed their mind.
Kala Moya today
The Zhentarim garrison is an integral part of the village, as are slaves and the constant coming and going of strangers, many of them shady characters from the Moonsea region. The D’tarig and Bedine have grudgingly become used to not being masters in their own houses anymore. As long as the Zhents don’t treat them too bad, the constant influx of wealth they bring compensates for whatever trouble they mean. For most locals, at least. Those who would rather see the Black Robes dissappear are wise enough to keep their tongue, lest they dissappear themselves.
Not all of the strangers who came to Kala Moya were Zhentarim, though. When the place turned from a small village into a trading center, others saw the opportunities as well, and a few even were courageous or foolish enough to compete with the Zhents. Tamos Murbad is a prime example for those few: An old man who once had a successful and very profitable trading coster, nowadays thouroughly defeated by his competitors from Zhentil Keep. The Black Network left him one caravan and tolerates him living in Kala Moya for only one reason: To show others how they will fare if they get in the Zhentarim’s way. Tamos tells everybody willingly his life’s tale, knowing full well that this is what the Zhents want. Even though he hates them with every old bone of his body, he craves for company, so he trades news from the outside world for old stories and advice about the Zhents, the Anauroch, trustworthy contacts among the locals and whatever else he knows.
Other strangers settled down in Kala Moya for a different reason: Being so close to the Anauroch, its three successor-states and the Ruins of Tethyamar, Kala Moya sees a constant stream of treasure hunters coming and going. A few sages stayed for longer, but most eventually fail to return from an expedition. Their abodes get plundered by anonymous thieves (most suspect the Zhentarim, and usually rightfully so).
Frim and Brim
One who came and stayed is Driduk Greythistle, a halfling who lives in Kala Moya for more than two decades. While initially he was one of the treasure hunters, he quickly settled down in an large house he bought from a local D’tarig clan whose wealth withered away as they fell from grace with the Zhents. He established himself as a trader and expert cutter of gems that are one of the main trading goods of the village, being brought by natives from the hinterlands.
In truth, Driduk Greythistle is the public faēade of Frim Greatorm. The Rock gnome is a skilled illusionist and decided to settle down in Kala Moya because of the net of intrigues that living so close to the Zhentarim surely means. He was right, and has never rued his decision. The black network does even after twenty years not suspect that the “small gem lover”, as they call the halfling, is their main adversary. They leave him alone for two reasons: He always pays the protection money extorted from all non-zhentish traders, and he pays extremely well for high-quality gems they get out of their mines, and would have to ship to distant places like Sembia or Waterdeep to get the same prices. Driduk consistently plays being besotted with gems since the day he arrived in Kala Moya, so nobody ever had any suspicions. He is sending small but well-armed caravans to Sembia and Archendale from time to time. One of Driduk’s/Frim’s early intrigues was making the Zhents believe that he sells the stones in Archendale and Sembia for only slightly more than what he pays them in Kala Moya, so they leave his caravans alone because he saves them the trouble of selling the stones themselves.
Blim Roundstone is Frim’s adventuring companion, friend and lover. The gnome hails from the Trielta hills and has been on Frim’s side in many hair-raising adventures. Frim took Blim in shortly after he established himself in Kala Moya. A small magic item [details up to the DM] allows Blim to appear as Tobold Pedrill*, a halfling from faraway Luiren. Since Blim/Tobold speaks the language of Luiren fluently, has visited the halfling realm at least two times and can make up stories on the fly, his cover is as save and sound as Frim’s/Driduk’s.
* Ped stands for “Cherries” and “Rill” means “Farmer” in an old idiom of the hin tongue [inspiration taken from an online halfing name generator at http://members.aol.com/poyzenrok/halfling.html].
For outsiders they are two male halflings of middle age who are fast friends and love each other. “Driduk and Tobold” don’t kiss in public but may be seen walking arm in arm through the village, especially when returning from a tavern-visit. Most of the D’tarig shrug it off as being their private thing while Bedine visitors who don’t know the pair are often flabbergasted when they realize the nature of their relationship. The Zhents couldn’t care less about the love life of halflings, but some of them, especially the lower echelons don’t miss the opportunity to mock them. Most of them experience a streak of bad luck not long after having had their fun, but it’s not something they associate with the two.
Intrigues and schemes
Blim pretends to be a gemcutter as well (he has the skills of a mediocre one and enough knowledge to keep up the charade), but in truth he is too much of an adventure seeker to sit at home and hunker over a ruby for days and weeks. He is the one who leads most of the caravans, which gives him a perfect cover for the Zhents: After the caravan is out of sight, he leaves the others and disappears to search for ruins (Netherese or otherwise), sometimes meeting with Frim and other friends, sometimes going all alone.
Since Blim has an unfailing gut feeling about when he is being watched, the Zhents have never caught him leaving a travelling party. This gut feeling is a constant source of wonder among the ones who know him well and has saved them uncounted times. Blim claims it is a blessing of Brandobaris or Erevan Ilesere. The stories about how he earned the blessing varies from time to time and have featured the plundering of a dragon hoard, hair-raising chases through the ruins of Myth Drannor, tricking Red Wizards and other tales that can make his listeners laugh until their bellies ache.
When it comes to piety, Blim is remarkably flexible. Being a storyteller by heart and having the art of deception in his veins, he venerates Brandobaris and Leira (he doesn’t believe she is dead). He prays to Mystra when unknown or potentially dangerous magic is involved (mostly when finding Netherese artifacts or traps). Upon discovering something exciting or important, he sends a short prayer of thanks to Shaundakul and Tymora, but his first and true allegienace is to Baravar Cloakshadow.
Frim and Blim hide a shrine to the Sly One in the cellar of their house. From the cellars, ancient and labyrinthine tunnels connect with a small valley in the wilderness of the foothills south of Kala Moya, along the way to Tilverton. The tunnels house no dangerous creatures but a few traps the gnomes built or repaired to guard against invaders. From time to time other Hoodwinkers (fellow speciality priests of Baravar like Frim) meet with them in the small chapel, and both gnomes have close friends among the Knights of the Shadowy Cloak, an affiliated order of Baravar.
Being a follower of the Bane of Goblinkin, one of his main reasons for staying in Kala Moya is the knowledge that the Zhentarim have some kind of alliance with the Orogs, Goblins and Barghests who live below the zhentish gem mines in tunnels that connect to the ancient dwarven realm of Tethyamar. To Blim the intrigues that his friend loves so much are more a means to the end than a passion. He longs to disrupt the alliance and turn both Zhentarim and goblinoid inhabitants against each other, all the while guarding the village against as much collateral damage as possible, even if almost no gnomes live in the canyon. He figured out that this would be achieved easiest by provoking misunderstandings between the two parties that lead to a battle inside mines. That way the village would be out of danger and the caves could be resealed in case the winning party is numerous enough to be a threat to Kala Moya.
Frim and Blim have spied extensively on the Zhentarim’s outpost and know its layout very well. They are the only ones outside the Black network who know about the portal inside the main hall of the mountain stronghold that links to somewhere in Zhentil Keep. One of their favourite pastimes is to foil zhentish plans and humiliate Zhents in front of each other or the villagers – without raising suspicion that outside forces were involved, of course.
They and theirs are the reason why Kala Moya became known among the Zhentarim as a place of bad luck; almost everyone assigned to “Beshaba’s hug”, as the outpost is called among Zhents, is sent here as a penalty. Even though nothing really dangerous happens in the usually sleepy settlement, most people want to leave the place as soon as possible, and even among the higher ranking members of the Black Network Kala Moya is seen as a dead end on their way to higher ranks. If you are assigned to Beshaba’s hug, the best thing you can hope is that someone else soon earns a disciplinary transfer soon after your arrival. As yet, no one suspects the nature of the bad luck.
[Part two follows] |
Edited by - tauster on 24 Feb 2008 19:16:41 |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 19:17:56
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[Part two]
Underdark adventures
Both gnomes, err… halflings could have set up schemes and intrigues long ago to break the iron grip the Zhentarim have over Kala Moya, but decided with a heavy heart not to do so. The reason is far more serious than just losing the endless intrigues and fun the Zhents offer. The pair knows a few tunnels under the Desertsmouth Mountains and the eastern Anauroch, and more than once followed heavily armed caravans that mostly came through the Zhentil Keep portal and went into the underdark through one of the countless caves that riddle the foothills of the Desertsmouth Mountains.
One such caravan lead them to Ooltul, a subterranean city ruled by beholders who keep thousands of slaves. The cave that houses Ooltul lies about forty miles north of Kala Moya and about thirty miles west of Tel Badir as the crow flies. The tunnels leading there weave and wind a lot, so that someone bold or crazy enough to travel to the City of Tyrants has to brave a journey of over a hundred miles until he reaches the shore of the Sand Lake that surrounds the sandy isle of Zorx, on which the shambling huts of the slaves are built as well as the market place for foreign traders.
Frim and Blim even know a portal that allows those who know how to activate it to skip more than half of the way – something the Zhentarim have not discovered (yet). More than once they have trailed a zhentish caravan, used the portal to outrun them and provoked accidents by clever illusions like hiding chasms or other natural subterranean dangers.
They once even succeded in making a beholder patrol attack the caravan returning from Ooltul by illusions that made the Zhents appear to be a large adventuring band from the surface, intent on bringing doom to the City of Tyrants. Both barely made it out alive of the ensuing mayem but tipped the scales of the battle several times, until only a few humans were alive – whom they led onto an illusionary rock bridge two days later. After the Zhents fell to their deaths, Frim and Blim plundered what valuables survived the battle and the fall and returned home – after they were captured themselves and escaped a patrol of orogs from tunnels connecting up to the Mines of Tethyamar.
They don’t like these adventures in the night below, consider them very dangerous and avoid them unless they have important reasons, like important deals between the individual members of the Black Network and the beholders of Ooltul. The pair would love to free the beholder’s slaves, especially enslaved gnomes, but know that the stresses and strains of travelling back to the surface is more than most of the slaves would endure. Instead they try to make the route to Ooltul as dangerous as possible without risking discovery or putting themselves at risk too much.
Bibliography:
Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark (information about Ooltul)
FR13 - Anauroch
3e's Lords of Darkness (I used the entry of the Zhentarim's outpost in the Mines of Tethyamar as their mountain-base in Kala Moya)
The Gnomes of the Trielta Hills, By Jorkens (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/gnomes.htm)
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 22:17:44
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Tauster ... what are you on? :)
People should distinguish between worshippers of multiple deities (pretty common) and truly devoted people like clerics or paladins. Even for those latter folk, worshipping more than one deity is certainly possible, just look at the elves who can virtually pray to the whole pantheon as such, their clerics to a deity that is actually three different deities. Or those Masked Traitors of Vhaeraun, who may (like Shakti Hunzrin) actively pursue the ways of both deities, Lolth and Vhaeraun. Yet, in most cases, these are unique people (Shakti, Qilué et al). Deities who send spells will require - at one point or another - total dedication. The latter does, of course, not exclude the worship of other deities, but will most certainly exclude receiving spells from more than one deity. That's how I see it, of course. If DMs have players with decent enough stories ready, I wouldn't bar them from becoming "unique" though. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 01:48:14
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I for one think it's absolutely reasonable for anyone in the Realms to worship multiple deities. As for clerics and paladins, though, I generally agree with Zanan's and Ed's analysis: such characters should be extremely rare and very complex. Certainly, you need to be clear who your spells are coming from.
I could, however, see a cleric or paladin serving a close allegiance of gods, like "the Triad," and having access to the domains of Ilmater, Tyr, and Torm. Perhaps a priest who serves both Mystra and Azuth. Angharradh (I'm sure I messed up that spelling) is a good example of a triune goddess--serving her is a lot like serving Aerdrie(sp?), Hanali, and Sehanine.
It should also be noted that there are a few character types that downplay direct deity connection. The Auspician, for instance, from Faiths and Pantheons, more reveres "the forces of luck" than a particular deity. You still have to be sworn to a deity to get into the class (and one that gives the luck domain), but a case could be made for moving away from monodeity. (totally made up word, like monogamy: "moe-nah-doh-nee?")
My campaigns have never really had a problem with worshipping a "pantheon" as well (like "the Seldarine," though I suppose that's really a worshipper of Corellon), but that's a serious DM-call.
Also . . . finally . . . there's always the heretic option.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 02:43:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I could, however, see a cleric or paladin serving a close allegiance of gods, like "the Triad," and having access to the domains of Ilmater, Tyr, and Torm.
Ed touched on this back in late January:-
"Most people tend to worship the deities separately, but consider them (and their priests) as allies, and turn to such allies when in need. Some priests (of these deities) point to the common beliefs and tenets among the Triad as proof that these faiths are "right" or "more correct than others," but worship is always considered to be best done on a personal, specific basis; unless you are desperate and calling out to "whatever gods there be!" for aid, worship "counts" most when it's directed at a specific deity."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 16:34:08
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wasn't Khelben Blackstaff also blessed by more than one deity also? This was mentioned in the novel Blackstaff but I'm not too sure about his relationship with the other deities.
He's not a priest though.
Larajin from the Sembia series is a priestess of Sune and Hanali (she also clearly received spells from both goddesses). And by the way, I actually created a similar character (specifically, an elven priestess of both deities) long before that book ever came out. Sune and Hanali are so close (in ideals, and in 2E, even proximity) that having a cleric of both deities seemed not only possible, but a no-brainer to me.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Feb 2008 16:41:57 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 16:35:34
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quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
...and Eilistraee foresees using her in some great task...
...to avert the Sellplague?
*ducks, runs and hides*
Qilue is playing a big role in the Lady Penitent series, although at this point (having read the two books out so far), I'm not sure how positive that role is going to turn out to be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 16:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
The latter does, of course, not exclude the worship of other deities, but will most certainly exclude receiving spells from more than one deity. That's how I see it, of course. If DMs have players with decent enough stories ready, I wouldn't bar them from becoming "unique" though.
I think the key is not make a cleric of two deities more powerful than a "regular" cleric of one deity. For example, in 3E, a cleric of two deities wouldn't get 4 domains just because they serve two deities. I think it'd be fine to let the cleric take one domain from each deity, though (or even require that). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 14:47:13
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Thanks for the input!
I tried to avoid making Blim more powerful than a regular Cleric by using one god (Baravar) as "primary" deity that gives him spells and the others as "lower-ranking" deities who might give him boon from time to time but don't provide "regular" spells. Their manifestations should be rare, and only in appropriate situations.
It helps that I chose the what I call "fickle gods" of fun, the tricksters who are (or might be, if the DM wants) unreliable in their favour even for their speciality priests (I know they provide spells just like other gods, but I try to portray Tymora as less reliable for their followers than Torm). If you try to come up with a follower of Torm and Helm, you will probably have to find another solution for not making him or her more powerful than a follower of only one of these two.
As a side topic: As DM, I often have a problem with cleric characters: How to let the character do the work of their god without feeling too much guided or routed by their "boss"? I sometimes use small manifestations of the deity (see Faiths & Avatars and the two other 2e books), but I realize that even these minor manifestations can be seen by the players as "commands" that may provoke the feeling of being railroaded. *scratches head* I still have to find a middle way, or a different method of using divine guidance...
Another side topic - hey, this is a cleric thread, after all! *g* - I made very good experiences when players chose clerics of minor gods! Or to be precise: Gods with only a small number of followers.
Shaundakul is one example: F&A states that Shaundakul has only about 400 followers in Faerun, and I guess real clerics are only a fraction of that (followers can be caravan guards or explorers who donÄt get spells). If you play a cleric/speciality priest of Shaundakul, at levels around 8 to 10 you should already belong to the upper echelons of the church, which can lead to great "politically" motivated story hooks that in a large faith like Lathander would probably come into play, say 5 levels later.
...oh, and don't forget that Shaundakul got the domain of portals in 1371/72 (can't exactly remember)! Start a little earlier with a cleric character, enough to have him at middle or higher levels when that happens and you can let the priest take a leading role in developing all the new spells and building a network of suddenly-important people like wizards and other experts in portal-crafting. That way you can show the party that the realms really change and let them be part of that change.
Another example would be Kelemvor, whose clerics are mostly converted Myrkulites and maybe a few Cyricists, who all still reel from changing their dogma almost 180°. Playing a "young" cleric of Kelemvor who quickly rises from zero to hero (*cough* adventuring *cough*) means that at middle levels, he will find himself (or herself) face to face with people who were previously animating undead and now fight them. They are still experts at the dark lore (you don't forget knowledge suddenly), and might still have views that are slightly at odds with the official dogma. And: These formerly Myrkulites might even know where to find powerful undead - and now have the mission to destroy them!
The best example for a god with a small church is Finder. In Finder's Bane, wich is afaik still the most recent lore about him, Finder has only two(!) priests and is not only good friends with them but sometimes even goes adventuring with them (perhaps in disguise...). Really, you can't have a smaller following without becoming a god yourself. The novel really shows how priests can influence the dogma of their faith, anf thus, ofer time, even the outlook of their god. A great god, btw, for bards and bardic adventurers. |
Edited by - tauster on 26 Feb 2008 14:51:05 |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2008 : 10:00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wasn't Khelben Blackstaff also blessed by more than one deity also? This was mentioned in the novel Blackstaff but I'm not too sure about his relationship with the other deities.
He's not a priest though.
Larajin from the Sembia series is a priestess of Sune and Hanali (she also clearly received spells from both goddesses). And by the way, I actually created a similar character (specifically, an elven priestess of both deities) long before that book ever came out. Sune and Hanali are so close (in ideals, and in 2E, even proximity) that having a cleric of both deities seemed not only possible, but a no-brainer to me.
I'm pretty sure Demihuman Deities notes several examples of humans worshipping dwarven deities alongside human gods and dwarves worshipping gnomish and elven deities alongside their dwarven gods as well.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Clerics of more than one god in the Realms?
