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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 19:31:33
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In our home campaign we just played through Iakhovas' attack on Waterdeep. A few folks in the group met their demise to a nasty dragon turtle. This got me thinking...how frikkan rare the diamonds that are needed for the raise dead line of spells (5,000 gp - 25,000 gp iirc). Seems to me while diamonds are pretty and all, gem stones suitable for such spells would no longer hold jewelry value and become the thing folks (read: adventurers) of wealth would attempt to horde and the price for a 25,000 gp diamond would be whatever the market would bare, so that 25,000 gp diamond becomes: "That will be 100,000 gp for the fine gem there laddy. You DO want to bring old whets-his-name back don't you? Well. so do several others. If you don't want to pay that much I understand... but other certainly well".
Seems I've read several places over the years of gem mines that have a great yield, but are just too dangerous to mine. Ahhh, seems I've another hook for my high level folks to become mired, er involved in >=).
What think you fellow scribes, how do you think these gems would affect the market?
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Edited by - AlorinDawn on 28 Dec 2007 19:33:21
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 19:48:17
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After a while your players will start hoarding diamonds themselves, it's what my party did in our Dark Sun campaign.  |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 19:48:44
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I still think that Raise Dead and similar spells are pretty rare in practice. And many rich and powerful folk might not have any idea what the material components for the spell are, other than, say adventurers.
I do think though, especially in larger temples, they may keep a diamond or two around in the inner sanctum, "just in case," so that while they might charge enough to get a new gem, the people coming to them most likely won't have to provide it themselves.
I do think that it might make for a good hook for adventurers to get hired to rescue a shipment of diamonds, some of which are going to the local temples.
I also think that its possible that some other extremely rare material component might be able to be substituted for the diamond, but given that its a double whammy of a rare and expensive item that will likely be in limited supply, the substitute item should probably be even more expensive than the original item.
I'd assume that it would have to be some kind of item that is refined, but essentially "pure," in other words, something elemental or naturally occuring, though something that can be refined, but not turned into something else. For example, a broach that is worth 10,000 gp that doesn't have a single diamond worth 5000 gp shouldn't work, but perhaps a dwarven cleric can substitute a 7500 gp sphere of adamantine or mithril to get the spell to work.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 28 Dec 2007 19:52:53 |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 20:09:04
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I still think that Raise Dead and similar spells are pretty rare in practice. And many rich and powerful folk might not have any idea what the material components for the spell are, other than, say adventurers.
I agree that most folks would have no clue what component was needed to raise the dead, however I do think that some wealthy folk would know and want to plan ahead and have a few diamonds that would work around just in case. I also think that your more astute adventurers would enventually catch on (especially if one could cast the spell) and horde accordingly.
This is giving me some decent ideads  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 22:08:54
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It might not be helpful, but I was thinking that this might be another reason that members of the healer class from the Miniature Handbook might be popular. A 20th level healer is likely to be pretty rare, but if a given faith knows of one affiliated with them, they might be wiling to wait for one to show up rather than spend their resources on the casting of the spell.
Of course this might not sit well with those having to wait, but I can see churches that are likely to have healers holding out for this if at all possible as well. Sorry, its a bit off topic, but it was related and it occurred to me while thinking about this whole issue. |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 22:56:49
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| Not off topic at all KEJ, just the kind of discussion I want this thread to cause! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 17:12:20
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This is one of the things I had discussed in my campaigns with a player. He swore that a 30,000 gp ruby would be huge (he was thinking the size of a snow globe or crystal ball). I told him that it could be just slightly larger than others but more clarity, and thus it could be used to capture even the greatest archmage with a trap the soul spell. The fact that it could be used for something more powerful magically would drive its price up more than it ever could being used in jewelry.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 19:23:54
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Here's a thought, a question for all.
What size do you think gems of this nature are?
My opinion is based on the 1gp = $1 US Dollar, and working with the Jewelry industry. Here I go:
140 carats equals one ounce (yes, I know, that's a bit extreme, but roll with me).
1 carat equals approximately 5.5 millimeters in diameter (if cut into a modern round brilliant).
So, given that, we'll say $8,000 equals a decent 1 carat diamond, which is roughly 5.5 millimeters in diameter (if a round cut). So, 8000=5.5, so 25000 = 17.1875mm. Just under 3/4 an inch in diameter (btw, this is not how it works in the real world, but it's a close approximation).
So, getting that softball sized diamond, 4.5 inches/114.3mm, you are looking at roughly 21 carats worth of diamond, giving it a price tag of around 175000 gp (really worth more in all likelihood, but going linear for argument's sake, we could argue $10 USD = 1gp at this point too, then you really could have that softball sized diamond  ).
Sorry for the off-topic-ness, but I figured I'd try to help a little.
Thanks
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 21:47:29
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| More great info! gogogo. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 21:57:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
What size do you think gems of this nature are?
My opinion is based on the 1gp = $1 US Dollar, and working with the Jewelry industry. Here I go:
If you guys only knew how many times at the gaming table someone asked a "gemstone" related question because we have someone with some knowledge of the subject . . .  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 22:37:18
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Lucky--being someone who likes jewelry, I'd enjoy such conversations.
I definitely agree that an expensive gemstone need not be huge, it could just have the ideal color and such. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2008 : 08:44:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer (snip some good stuff)
Sorry for the off-topic-ness, but I figured I'd try to help a little.
Off-topic? Not at all. This is actually really useful information. Thanks very much for posting. |
Best
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2008 : 23:13:48
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Apparently my random knowledge of gems & such has come in handy. Thanks all
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Exploit
Acolyte
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 01:45:05
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The biggest cost containment factor for diamonds is the wish spell which can produce 25,000 gp of diamonds per casting. Some 17th level wizard would go into business (if they are not already in the business) of making 25,000 gp diamonds and selling them for the inflated 100,000 gp price for the higher gp/xp ratio.
If a DM argues that the wish cannot make a sufficient quality diamond because the gp value has gone up then a mage from another area (say Thay or another plane like the Elemental Plane of Earth) where the diamond price is normal (or lower) performs the wish and transports the diamonds to Waterdeep for the higher profit.
Even if the diamond prices all do raise then one could argue that what would normally have been a 5000 gp diamond but now costs 25,000 gp should now work for the resurrection spell. The criteria for the diamond material component is its value not any other listed quality. Think that is unreasonable? Consider this. Mystra determines how magic works and at a whim she could decide resurrection spells no longer require any material component. (Epic spell casters with the Ignore Material Component feat can cast resurrection without a diamond after all.) So the only reason these material components are required at all is because Mystra decided this was necessary to limit the number of times the spell would be cast.
Ever wonder what the secret agenda of the Mercanes, hinted at in the Manual of The Planes, is? As servants of Mystra and Azuth, these magical merchants are busy regulating the market costs of magic items and material components in Faerun so that prices do not get too high or low. If material component prices rise too high then magic use declines and so does the corresponding power of Mystra and Azuth. If prices drop too low then magic becomes overly abundant and is most likely to be abused by evil powers to the detriment of the commoners of Faerun. It is far more efficient, and less controversial amongst her divine peers, for Mystra to have her Mercane agents manipulate Faerun's magical markets then for her to be constantly adjusting what material component is necessary for each spell. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 16:43:18
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I started a similar discussion a while back - The Realms and raising the Dead. We talked about diamnonds and their availability as well. You might want to read throught it.
BTW - the best way to avoid death in battle is to always make the crucial strike. Your players might want to remember that next time!
Best of luck, Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 17:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
BTW - the best way to avoid death in battle is to always make the crucial strike.
Actually, the best way to avoid death in battle is to not be anywhere near the battle! |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 17:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Lucky--being someone who likes jewelry, I'd enjoy such conversations.
I definitely agree that an expensive gemstone need not be huge, it could just have the ideal color and such.
Yes. Some of the best and most expensive gems are not big at all. an example is the rare black diamond. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Diamonds and raising the dead
