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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 06:07:23
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The Erevis Cale Trilogy
Where I come late to the party.
*Spoilers*
I made the mistake of reading this before the Halls of Stormweather/Shadow's Witness and knew I was missing a book after just a few pages, but I very much enjoyed it anyway. The book is a rollicking adventure that subverts one of the Oldest Forgotten Realms cliches. It also does a great job of establishing that Erevis' 'victory' in the end was utterly hollow and that makes the series even better.
No one can fault Erevis for the way he tried to deal with the Sojourner, he gave it the college try and then some, but the opponent he was facing was just too powerful to accomplish anything against. Had Erevis really come face to face with the Sojourner attempting to destroy him then he would have died instantly. It's a tragic but nice way of handling the confrontation. Erevis only managed to take the last few miserable moments of a dying man's life.
Ultimately, this story is very much a transition piece as Erevis descends further and further into darkness. His position as a butler in Sembia is as close to reformed as you can expect any man to ever reach. Really, the family shows an appalling ingratitude that I'm only now getting the impression of as I read the prequels (as I've come to think of them as). Frankly, it's unlikely they could understand the Hell he goes through to avenge some dead guards even less.
Paul Kemp manages to neatly use one of the most underused monsters of D&D in the Slaadi. I've never particularly liked Slaadi because they seemed to lack the iconic flavor angels and demons did. They're repulsive and evil creatures here that fully manage to make their alien natures into an advantage. I don't think they're Cthulhuian, far too human for that, but they're definitely gross and abnormal.
Much has been said about Riven and I'll repeat it, it's nice to have evil people that still have human traits. The man's simple love for his dogs was beautifully well handled and it's nice to see a Zhentariam who actually knows what he's doing. The man has grown in his capacity for friendship but I honestly believed that he'd just gut a man as soon as look at him.
The Sojourner is a nice anti-climax villain that works better than a climax. He's built up as more powerful than any threat the Realms have ever faced before. He's 10,000 years old, a Gith (no suffix), a master of Mind Magic, a Master of Wizardry (I'd say easilly 20th level in both and probably much higher). Furthermore, he seems to need to harness the cosmic power of the mantles for some nefarious purpose. In the end, he's resigned to death and just wants to play under the night of his ancient youth one last time before going off into oblivion.
Frederick's N's "Overman" philosophy is nicely worked out here, even though it'd be nice to see it used for more non-evil characters. Beyond good and evil means a person is free to act because of his will rather than necessarilly because he's SUPPOSED to act in a certain way. Ironically, Cale would be significantly less troubled if he just abandoned himself to that philosophy because his God is genuinely evil and he knows thats the case.
I liked the nod towards Arvner of Hartsdale, I'd personally like to see Cale meet him and pretty much cope with the fact that he serves willingly (albeit reluctantly) while Arvner is a prisoner of a God he loathes. I'm, of course, looking forward to meeting the final Chosen of Mask and it's good to see that not only Mystra has multiple Chosen throughout the Realms. Though, weirdly, with their distant relationship....Erveris could just as easilly be a simple Priest of Mask as opposed to his selected Champion.
The standout character from the trilogy is our poor cursed priest of Oghma. Honestly, I'm glad my adventurers never met him or they'd utterly rip into him for his :censored: about his coming back to life. Of course, he was ripped from Heaven by priests but no one demanded he come and if he has a problem with his sense of duty he should find another God then. Overall, I loved his John Nash like problem, it was a very interesting way of handling numerology in the Realms.
Frankly, I'm not a great believer of love at first sight. Erevis Cale is clearly just looking for a woman that he can "save" as opposed to actually falling in love in Skullport. Happy unions have occurred from less but I do hope that he doesn't necessarilly end up with everything hunky dory, especially after more or less abandoning a girl he went through Hell for (pun intended)
Overall, I was tremendously impressed and rank it amongst one of my favorite Realms series.
8/10
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 26 Oct 2007 01:54:59
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 16:02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Frankly, I'm not a great believer of love at first sight. Erevis Cale is clearly just looking for a woman that he can "save" as opposed to actually falling in love in Skullport. Happy unions have occurred from less but I do hope that he doesn't necessarilly end up with everything hunky dory, especially after more or less abandoning a girl he went through Hell for (pun intended)
It doesn't end up hunky-dory. Shadowbred shows Cale to be (IMO) a pretty crummy, "part-time" boyfriend. Of course, I'm looking forward to further developments of that storyline though.  I like Varra and Cale and I want them both to find happiness. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2007 : 01:29:40
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(continuing my review)
Erevis Cale the character is one that I think needs a section devoted entirely to him. I've only started on the second trilogy, no spoilers please, but I'll definitely be reading Shadow's Witness soon. Nevertheless, I think I have a good enough handle on him to give a decent view on him. Especially now that I've read his first appearance and the Dragon short stories. If any of my views change, I'll definitely inform the readers here.
At the risk of rousing fans ire, I think that Erevis is a nice counterpart to Drizzt Do'Urden. He forms an interesting middle ground between the Realms three famous "men escaping dark pasts" in Drizzt and Artemis Enteri. Indeed, there could be some comparison between his relationship with Riven as well as Drizzt's rivalry with Enteri. The similiarities are only in the fact they draw from the same anti-hero archetypes but it makes a nice point of discussion for him.
Erevis' big difference to the Mickey Mouse/Company character of the Realms is that while he's on a quest for answers to life, usually his answers end up being wrong for either the situation or himself. I think that The Chosen of Mask, though he'd be shocked to be described that way, is an addict for the life that he lives. Not any thrills or rush from the work, he's long past that, but that he's unwilling to totally break ties with it and he can't escape it.
Erevis escapes from the Night Masks and immediately joins with another Thieves' Guild. He becomes a member of a prominent Selgaunt Household but as a partially connected spy. No sooner does he break his ties with the Knives than he ends up becoming the Chosen of an Evil Deity. While one might argue that this is largely beyond his power, Erevis has never really tried to separate him from the temptations and ways of his life that would allow him to break his assassin's habits.
Erevis clearly hates doing what he does but he's also an individual whom is not able to make the full disconnect from his old life that redemption would require. It's like an alcoholic whom always keeps a bottle of liquor around himself. It's just too easy for Erevis to fall back into the habit of killing and torturing to get what he wants, no matter how good intentioned he might be. In other words, his biggest difference is that Erevis redemption is unlikely to happen because he's the Drizzt that stayed in the Underdark.
The fact that he serves the God of the Criminal Underworld is also never going to provide him any real moral guidance. Like my father always used to say, if you walk with the Devil then you're going to get burned. The irony, one could say our heroes Fatal Flaw in the Greek Tragedy sense, is that he's fully aware that his God is the exact opposite of the way he wants to go but sticks with him because Cale can't imagine being without the gifts that allowed him to accomplish some minor goods. The Road to the Abyss is pathed with Cale's good intentions.
I think that all that keeps Erevis from falling completely is his connections to other people. So, when Jak died, it disgusts him that the only friend he really has left is the man he despises most in the world (I think it's amusing that he realizes Riven is the closest thing he has left to a companion). Cale, had he grown up in any other environment, probably would have been an excellent nurturer and guardian. He's a Thief and Assassin with the soul of a Knight but now way too dirty to ever be one.
I anxious to see where he goes from here.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Vexxan
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 10:06:15
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I always like reading what other people thought of the Cale trilogy since I love it as well. I'm just going to let some thoughts and responses flow here... please forgive any discord.
I read the Cale trilogy prior to Shadow's Witness, and I found that going back only solidified what I already knew about Cale. The path he treads seems almost destined, something you might not be able to appreciate if you read the Sembia novels first.
Cale admits to himself on many occasions that he is, and always will be, a killer. He does not deny the darkness inside him. However, he has the sense to be cautious of it and tempers it with reason and judgement. I feel his attitude towards Mask is the same. He does not deny that his god is evil, but Mask is as much a part of who he is as his profession. He does question his god at times as well, but ultimately remains true. I'm not sure if Cale would take kindly to the thought of "serving" Mask, but would rather consider himself "of service to" Mask. He does not proclaim the greatness of his god or revel in his theology in any way. Mask rewards him for who he is and what he does, so he offers up only the requisite lip service in return. Mask serves Cale's purpose as much as Cale serves Mask's. Having not read the Shadow War trilogy, I don't know how much this holds true, but this is the impression I gained.
That's part of what endears Cale to me. He is himself, true to the core, and never makes excuses for it. His moral compass is a little skewed, and while he cherishes those that help remind him where true virtue lies, I don't think he intends to follow any path other than the one he is on.
Regarding Riven, I'm not sure Cale would think him to be the most despicable man alive. He does learn to respect Riven for what he's worth, and I'll bet he sees strength in Riven's ability to be his own man. Cale has probably dealt with all sorts of more reviled men. Jak's death affects him so badly, in my thinking, because he realizes that one of the last tethers he has to innocence and righteousness just broke away. Without Jak, Cale is adrift in his own darkness with no beacon to guide him home.
I wholeheartedly agree that the Slaadi were wonderfully portrayed. Not simply as well-illuistrated antagonistic monsters, but living, thinking beings. There was a small part of me that was always secretly rooting for Dolgan during every conflict. Not to make light of Azriim, who is another fantastic portrayal. While the loss of Jak was a sharper blow, I must admit to lamenting Dolgan a touch more. Shadow's Witness will bring much more light and light-heartedness to Jak. If I had read it first, I would likely have been more affected by Jak's death. He was a great character. |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 17:42:06
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This is not a thread I would ordinarily want to intrude upon, but I wanted to mention how strange and wonderful it is to see readers' takes -- very insightful takes, at that -- on the characters from the Cale stories. My thanks. It's humbling, really.
And now I retreat once more to the sanctuary of the Q&A and book club threads....
Paul |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 18:53:43
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Oh Paul, we welcome your presence. Ed and Elaine have both popped into threads like this before and we hope you'll do the same.
I just finished the first of the new Trilogy and was going to review it here.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 23:17:11
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| The interesting thing about Azriim is that he currently remains unaccounted for! I wonder when we'll see him again. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 10:56:42
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| Just read on folks. Shadowstorm is another joy to behold. It does indeed become fact that while others instantly think of Elminster and Drizzt material when it comes to the FR (novels), I think of Erevis and Paul first. (And Danifae, of course!) |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 19:32:50
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Shadowbred Review
I must confess that I'm quite fond of this book because it returns Erevis Cale to what I believe should be his natural habitat of Sembia. I hope we'll eventually see Erevis go to Waterdeep and other locals of the Realms but it's good to re-aquaint Shade Erevis with the family that sheltered him and how he's changed.
Erevis has clearly has spent the last year trying to be a hero, as we see in rescuing a halfling village from Trolls but it's also equally clear that he has no idea how to be a hero. He's acting how he's SUPPOSED to act but it's clear that good comes as unnaturally to him as evil. He doesn't understand why he should do what he does, only that he does it out of obligation. The act of saving lives brings him no joy and doesn't bring him any comfort.
I don't particularly much care for Erevis' girlfriend. Frankly, Varra bores me as she's a bit too much of a cipher for Cale's need to be loved and love in return. There's nothing really particularly interesting about her that we know because Cale doesn't know anything about her, he just 'rescued' her from Skullport. The two people are complete strangers and it forces me to think that I much prefer Cale chasing after Tazi than I do a woman that he can treat like a doormat so long as he feels bad about it.
Magadon's horrific situation is really one that I think can only end in tragedy, Paul. While Erevis might be able to pull himself out of the current funk he's in, I'm fairly sure there's no realistic happy ending for the poor Cambion (nice way to comment that he's not really a Tiefling if he's a Half-Archfiend). I pity the nice guy that's cursed by his blood but, unlike Drizzt, I can't see a reasonable way out of this other than his death. You well captured he's in a Lovecraftian nightmare of degeneration.
Honestly, I'm probably the only man in the world who wanted a Tamlin book in the Sembia series. I like Tamlin because he's sort of an anti-Danillo Thann. He really is THAT worthless a human being but I can't help being sympathetic because I grew up in priviledge and know several close friends who were unable to make the transition to the real world.
It's tragic to see him so blatantly manipulated by the Shades and forced into a position that's so well above him. I don't much care for the "Erevis Cale is always right" manner of handling Sembian politics (what does a butler and assassin know about running a city?) but it worked in this context. Frankly, I'm surprised Tamlin listened to him for as long as he did.
I loved the handling of Shar's faith as well. They're as depraved, sick, and disgusting as you can expect them to be. There's something repulsive about the faith of Shar and you managed to convey that while showing how utterly attractive it can be on the surface. All of the Sharists are shown to be monsters of an entirely different sort than Riven and Cale while simultaneously not losing their "reality." The battle between Mask and Shar is a battle between Shadows and Darkness. Neither is very good but there's a definite difference between the levels of evil of the two.
Eylril is a wonderful example of a truly warped and diseased mind. I like her a great deal more than Prince Rivalen as an example of a nutter that's drawn to Shar's service (though her sick relationship with her Demonic patron is even better portrayed). Thank you Paul for providing us with such a wonderful character.
I've commented elsewhere what an excellent contrast that Rivalen is to Cale. I hope to see the Prince of Shade sent to permanent death. I can think of no better character to send him there than Erevis. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 23:28:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I don't particularly much care for Erevis' girlfriend. Frankly, Varra bores me as she's a bit too much of a cipher for Cale's need to be loved and love in return. There's nothing really particularly interesting about her that we know because Cale doesn't know anything about her, he just 'rescued' her from Skullport. The two people are complete strangers and it forces me to think that I much prefer Cale chasing after Tazi than I do a woman that he can treat like a doormat so long as he feels bad about it.
I love Varra precisely because I can tell that there's much more to her than meets the eye. And of course, I feel rather sorry for her because Cale isn't much of a boyfriend to her. He went crazy over her when he didn't have her, but now that he does, in this book, he can't even say that he loves her! While I don't want Cale to chase after Tazi anymore (frankly, I think she's overrated to begin with), I agree with you that it seems like Cale thinks it's OK to be neglectful as long as he's quietly guilty about it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 29 Oct 2007 23:30:52 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 01:27:28
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quote:
I love Varra precisely because I can tell that there's much more to her than meets the eye.
Actually, wasn't the name of Riven's former boss' harlot named Varra? From when Riven killed one of his guards after the demon started killing his men? Interesting. But honestly, she seems to be exactly what she appears to be and that's not as appealing to me as Tazi.
I just don't much care for her, but I suppose she's the kind of girl that Cale would go for. One that he can project his love onto without any real distractions from her personality.
I do admit, I like the fact that Tazi IS a spoiled princess and Cale's interest broke when her actual personage showed him that she's not an ideal he can hold up.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 05 Nov 2007 01:29:21 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 02:27:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Actually, wasn't the name of Riven's former boss' harlot named Varra? From when Riven killed one of his guards after the demon started killing his men? Interesting. But honestly, she seems to be exactly what she appears to be and that's not as appealing to me as Tazi.
It was obvious to me as soon as Cale met her that Varra has a backstory we haven't been told yet. It is also telling that Mr. Kemp will be writing a short story taking place in ancient Netheril featuring Rivalen, Alashar (sp?), Telemont...and Varra.
That's straight from the proverbial horse's mouth. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 11:15:11
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Shadow Storm
This is a very interesting book and sort of the "ESB" of the trilogy in that it's distinctly the most darkest of the books that Paul Kemp has written so far. The book shows the continuing degeneration of everyone involved in the subplots and what effect that has on the people around them.
The horrible power of Mesphito is well captured in the book even as Erevis Cale continues to demonstrate his utter lack of loyalty to Mask. Cale willingly promises a piece of Mask's godhood to the most destructive force in the universe that might make use of it. Seriously; Orcus and Garguath cause another problems without another Demon God.
If I were Mask, I'd actually seek another Chosen because Erevis is worse than Avner of Hartsdale (Those two still have to meet).
On the other hand, if Cale somehow pulls it off then he'll be able to give Mask perhaps enough of his power back to return to Intermediate God status. I do tend to wonder if this was a good choice on Paul Kemp's part or not. How many gods have been opposed/slain by mortals? Even if we've never heard of Volumax before, is it a good thing to have a mortal slay a demigod when there's so many examples of it already?
It's a problem that I don't think is terribly too problematic, I tended to think of Volumax as no stronger than most demons (and that's still pretty powerful). Actually, a large part of me was left wondering back and forth whether or not there WAS a Volumax or that he'd been completely made up by the deranged "niece" of the Overmistress (you know---there truly is some subtext to that weird relationship. I'm just not sure what it is).
Magadon's corruption continues in the book, though I'm not sure if its corruption anymore when a subject doesn't have a soul anymore. The poor man has clearly been driven half-insane by his father and the rest of it isn't too far behind. I think death would be a mercy for him at this point.
The war is shaping up in Sembia nicely and the continued corruption of Uskevren's leader. Really, it's not that difficult for a Rivalen to corrupt Tamlin because he's a man that possesses knowledge akin to a god while Tamlin is portrayed as a spineless and weak minded fool.
Honestly, it's difficult to see what Rivalen sees in the man other than some seriously strained projection. Maybe in addition to the "issues with father" and "being in one's father's shadow (pun intended)" there's the fact that Rivalen likes having someone he knows that he'd never have to worry about stabbing him in the back.
Frankly, this book throws some dirt on the holy name of Lathander as well. Paul Kemp is wise to provide us with a child whose utterly helpless and also one that really doesn't have the faculties to appreciate his situation. In truth, a total innocent victim that can only be dealt with on an emotional level. We have to understand the despair that a man who clearly serves a loving deity (we saw the miracle he performed) might lose faith anyway. Abelar really takes it in the gut. The revenge is, inarguably, no different from what he'd endure if the man were tried since he's a mass murderer and kidnapper but the man's doing of it himself has stained him.
Ultimately, it's strange but the book inspired me to use the Risen Sun heretics in my games. Ironically, my characters have no problem with the heresy recieving spells despite my portraying them as the most god awful Lathanderites ever created. Why? "Well, I tend to think that Lathander will grant his spells to people who heal the sick and feed the poor even if they are complete :censored:"
Overall, I'm very impressed with Paul Kemp's ability to create evocative villains that are very realistic. Unlike in most FR books, the motivations of the villains are very clear and understandable, yet they're also irredeemable scum. They lack all the epic grandeur of Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader (save perhaps Rivalen). Instead, they're mostly just brutal thugs and murderers (or psychopathic lunatics) you're glad to see put down.
Bravo
9/10 |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 05 Nov 2007 11:45:16 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 18:39:40
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Hmm, will I get grilled if I say that if you read the dialogue between Rivalen and Tamlin in a certain way, it seems amusingly homoerotic (ie. Rivalen saying "Does this change anything between us?")?
I'm not saying that in a mean way--I seriously couldn't help but consider the possibility that Rivalen and Tamlin are more than just mentor and student... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 Nov 2007 18:45:34 |
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MrsDrasek
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2010 : 17:20:55
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Regarding Riven, I'm not sure Cale would think him to be the most despicable man alive. He does learn to respect Riven for what he's worth, and I'll bet he sees strength in Riven's ability to be his own man. Cale has probably dealt with all sorts of more reviled men. Jak's death affects him so badly, in my thinking, because he realizes that one of the last tethers he has to innocence and righteousness just broke away. Without Jak, Cale is adrift in his own darkness with no beacon to guide him home.
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I really enjoyed reading this post. I agree with your details for Cale, I always felt that Jak was a sort of means to keep Cale grounded, as a reminder to him so that he would not forget who he was or also forget that he could be so much more than he could be...it was possible for good to prevail and Jak saw that in his friend. |
Part Well...Regret Nothing |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2010 : 03:42:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Hmm, will I get grilled if I say that if you read the dialogue between Rivalen and Tamlin in a certain way, it seems amusingly homoerotic (ie. Rivalen saying "Does this change anything between us?")?
I'm not saying that in a mean way--I seriously couldn't help but consider the possibility that Rivalen and Tamlin are more than just mentor and student...
Wow, and here I am thinking I am the only FR reader who thinks the same. Even my friends who are FR addicts (but sadly are NOT too fond of joining forums) do not agree with me, or in this case, with us.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2010 : 03:58:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Shadowbred Review
I hope to see the Prince of Shade sent to permanent death. I can think of no better character to send him there than Erevis.
Most probably Rivalen will be killed for good in Paul's new trilogy. For one, Brennus already hates him after learning of his betrayal to their mother. Second, the rest of the princes (even if Telamont prohibits them) will surely plot something behind their father's back to kill their eldest brother once they learn (and I am sure they will somehow) of Rivalen's greatest family betrayal. Also, time will come when Telamont himself realizes that Rivalen is a great threat to his throne. He's already a demigod, for one. We do not yet see the full extent of Telamont's power (even in the Return of the Archwizards I felt as though somehow he's holding, except that scene when he single-handedly controlled the mythallar when the Chosen attacked them), but I do not think he would find it so difficult to deal with his now-demigod son.
So even if Erevis fails to kill Rivalen, I am sure the other Tanthuls will gladly do the job.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Erevis Cale series *Spoilers* Review
