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silvermage
Seeker
77 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 01:06:19
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Hello, here is something i had been thinking about. I have read about the Netheril Trilogy and read up on Karse. Karse has delusions about becoming a god and avenging and saving the Netheril Empire. Yet, Sammaster also appear to have dreams of becoming a consort to Mystra and he should be a god than being a mere Chosen, also both Karse and Sammaster were prodigies in the arcane knowledge. Sometimes, I wonder if Sammaster is Karse incarnate?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 02:54:51
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Interesting idea, but: no. Afraid not.
Karse was hardly unique among Netherese mages for desiring godhood and thinking himself "qualified" for it . . . he just got a little closer than most.
love,
THO |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 03:07:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Interesting idea, but: no. Afraid not.
Karse was hardly unique among Netherese mages for desiring godhood and thinking himself "qualified" for it . . . he just got a little closer than most.
love,
THO
Like a certain necromancer from Thay |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 03:51:17
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| 'Tis rather doubtful that Mystra would have selected as one of her Chosen the guy responsible for the demise of her predecessor. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 10:21:00
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Interesting topic! Lets see........Karse though was a arcane prodigy, he was a lunatic and harbors mad dreams of becoming a god (which I read from Dangerous Games, Netheril Trilogy Book 2).
Sammaster likewise was regarded as an arcane prodigy during his young days which also coincidentally, Karse became an archwizard at around age 22 and recognized as the youngest arcanist and arcane prodigy in the Netheril Empire. Both are equally mad, insane and yet arcane talents but though their goals were slightly different, still their goals were quite similar.
Karse wanted to take over Mystryl as God of Magic and the Weave and also save the Netherese and vanquish the Phaerimm.
Sammaster also wanted to be like Mystra but not like Karse but rather as her consort in terms of being a deity (I think he hoped Mystra would make him a demi-god or something like that so he can be her consort).
Also, both seemed to take "care" of their followers, Karse only cared for his followers when he is in the right mind (though as he aged, I think he cared less). Sammaster also at times, "cared" for his followers as evident by in The Rage (Year of Rogue Dragons)
Hence, I think Sammaster might be an incarnate of Karse.(Though I am not sure whether Karse was reincarnated or not) |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 16 Jun 2005 10:22:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 11:26:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Interesting topic! Lets see........Karse though was a arcane prodigy, he was a lunatic and harbors mad dreams of becoming a god (which I read from Dangerous Games, Netheril Trilogy Book 2).
Sammaster likewise was regarded as an arcane prodigy during his young days which also coincidentally, Karse became an archwizard at around age 22 and recognized as the youngest arcanist and arcane prodigy in the Netheril Empire. Both are equally mad, insane and yet arcane talents but though their goals were slightly different, still their goals were quite similar.
Karse wanted to take over Mystryl as God of Magic and the Weave and also save the Netherese and vanquish the Phaerimm.
Sammaster also wanted to be like Mystra but not like Karse but rather as her consort in terms of being a deity (I think he hoped Mystra would make him a demi-god or something like that so he can be her consort).
Also, both seemed to take "care" of their followers, Karse only cared for his followers when he is in the right mind (though as he aged, I think he cared less). Sammaster also at times, "cared" for his followers as evident by in The Rage (Year of Rogue Dragons)
Hence, I think Sammaster might be an incarnate of Karse.(Though I am not sure whether Karse was reincarnated or not)
Just because two people show similarities, it doesn't mean there's any connection between then. We usually don't see reincarnations in the Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 19:42:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Both are equally mad, insane and yet arcane talents but though their goals were slightly different, still their goals were quite similar.
Karse wanted to take over Mystryl as God of Magic and the Weave and also save the Netherese and vanquish the Phaerimm.
Sammaster also wanted to be like Mystra but not like Karse but rather as her consort in terms of being a deity (I think he hoped Mystra would make him a demi-god or something like that so he can be her consort).
Also, both seemed to take "care" of their followers, Karse only cared for his followers when he is in the right mind (though as he aged, I think he cared less). Sammaster also at times, "cared" for his followers as evident by in The Rage (Year of Rogue Dragons)
Hence, I think Sammaster might be an incarnate of Karse.(Though I am not sure whether Karse was reincarnated or not)
Just because two people show similarities, it doesn't mean there's any connection between then. We usually don't see reincarnations in the Realms.
Not reincarnations, you're right, but certainly repetitive patterns. That's why it's the "Forgotten Realms" -- hundreds and thousands of years of kingdoms that have fallen precisely because of such madness.
The real question is: Is Sammaster going to come up with the same sort of cataclysm that Karsus did -- accidentally, granted -- and throw down another vast kingdom? He already seems to be on the right track -- The Rite, anyone?
The world's just as full of madmen as it is full of morons -- let's just hope there are enough fools (i.e. adventurers) to balance it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 20:00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
That's why it's the "Forgotten Realms" -- hundreds and thousands of years of kingdoms that have fallen precisely because of such madness.
Is this at all official? As far as I know, 'Forgotten Realms' isn't a term used in the Realms, but what we call the Realms because the world-links have declined. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 20:09:21
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Correct, Faraer. Folk in the Realms speak of "the Realms" but never of "the Forgotten Realms," which is indeed our real-world term. Confirmed by Ed, who's frantically writing some VERY major Realmslore at the moment, for official WotC publication sometime in the future (NDA, so no one ask, please).
love,
THO |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 20:17:16
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Those pesky NDA's. I just don't understand why they won't let Ed just tell us everything...
What was that? Bad for business... How? Oh... Ah.. Ah well, guess I'll respect that request then |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Neo2151
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 08:09:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Correct, Faraer. Folk in the Realms speak of "the Realms" but never of "the Forgotten Realms," which is indeed our real-world term. Confirmed by Ed, who's frantically writing some VERY major Realmslore at the moment, for official WotC publication sometime in the future (NDA, so no one ask, please).
love,
THO
Unless, of course for some strange and alien reason, you listen to Douglas Niles over Ed Greenwood. Doug specifically said that the peoples of Faerun called it "The Forgotten Realms" (said in Iron Helm, first of the Maztica trilogy.) Normally I'd not post this but (in the spirit of being annoying ) Niles is a very heavily credited author when it comes to FR, though why, I couldn't tell you. His stories were good and all, but he seemed to be a lil lacking on the realmslore. |
"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."
-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2005 : 13:46:18
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Reincarnations are a bad idea, in terms of the druid spell reincarnate just look at the odds!
How embarrasing would it be for Karse to be reincarnated only to find that Beshaba was more on his side than Tymora, and he gets reincarnated as a squirrel. Hardly godhood is it?  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2005 : 19:52:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
That's why it's the "Forgotten Realms" -- hundreds and thousands of years of kingdoms that have fallen precisely because of such madness.
Is this at all official? As far as I know, 'Forgotten Realms' isn't a term used in the Realms, but what we call the Realms because the world-links have declined.
My Lady THO is quite correct -- natives don't call it the "Forgotten Realms," but you find frequent reference to the "Realms," which is as common (it seems to me) as "Faerun," if not more. The reason WE call it the Realms (again, according to my opinion) is that the Faerun we know and love is built, literally, on the burial ground of so many forgotten kingdoms. I didn't mean to imply that natives called it FR.
Also, if I implied that all the lost empires and realms fell because of madness, it was unintentional. Some did, some didn't -- just like in the real world. 'Course, the policies that led to the fall of each realm could (and have) been interpreted as madness, so.........
Anyway.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2005 : 21:00:03
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| Somehow picturing Karse reincarnated as a squirel amuses me . . . |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2005 : 07:49:03
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| Well, Karse reincarnation would be best handled by the Lord of The Dead, Kelemvor or Cyric, who knows the Lord of the Dead might want Karse to be his champion or as some sort of tool to further the cause of the Lord of The Dead. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2005 : 12:36:07
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Somehow picturing Karse reincarnated as a squirel amuses me . . .
Not as much as it'd amuse Mystryl I bet. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2005 : 17:15:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Somehow picturing Karse reincarnated as a squirel amuses me . . .
Not as much as it'd amuse Mystryl I bet.
I dunno... I'd imagine its hard to be amused by something when you're dead.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 05:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Somehow picturing Karse reincarnated as a squirel amuses me . . .
Not as much as it'd amuse Mystryl I bet.
I dunno... I'd imagine its hard to be amused by something when you're dead.
Unless you're a pictsie |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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silvermage
Seeker
77 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 08:02:03
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Somehow picturing Karse reincarnated as a squirel amuses me . . .
I think Karse reincarnated as a monkey would be a more amusing idea, afterall in the Netheril Trilogy, he seemed to be like a untamed monkey to me.
Anyway, thanks to all who had replied to this topic. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 08:05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by silvermage
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Somehow picturing Karse reincarnated as a squirel amuses me . . .
I think Karse reincarnated as a monkey would be a more amusing idea, afterall in the Netheril Trilogy, he seemed to be like a untamed monkey to me.
Anyway, thanks to all who had replied to this topic.
Karse as a monkey? Ha, I certainly can't imagine a Karse in monkey form casting spells and writing books, sure to cast the wrong spells. Nice jest, silvermage! |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Sandhrune
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 03:26:54
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| Karse would have been punished as one of the faithless by Jergal. I don't see him ever coming back any way, any how. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 05:42:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandhrune
Karse would have been punished as one of the faithless by Jergal. I don't see him ever coming back any way, any how.
Ah, but did Karse's soul actually make it to the Fugue Plane? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sandhrune
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 06:47:53
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| good point. UTTER ANNIHILATION! |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 11:37:12
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| Wait a minute, I think Karse had not really entered the Realms of the Dead. Perhaps he might be incarnated into a stone or something like that in the High Forest near Wulgreth's lair. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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StromLancer
Acolyte
41 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 02:30:25
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| Who knows Sammaster is of the same ancestry line as Karse? If so, that may explain Sammaster mad actions. |
Lead the war fate commands you to!
...but are you fighting the true enemy? |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 02:36:10
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quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
Who knows Sammaster is of the same ancestry line as Karse? If so, that may explain Sammaster mad actions.
Hmm....that may explain Sammaster madness, still I wonder how many more mages are of Karse bloodline and as crazy as him. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 02:37:00
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quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
Who knows Sammaster is of the same ancestry line as Karse? If so, that may explain Sammaster mad actions.
Insanity isn't a good reason to assume relation...
I think that people are being too eager to find a connection where no evidence of a connection exists. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Jul 2005 02:38:05 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 13:30:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
Who knows Sammaster is of the same ancestry line as Karse? If so, that may explain Sammaster mad actions.
Insanity isn't a good reason to assume relation...
I think that people are being too eager to find a connection where no evidence of a connection exists.
Any evidence of a connection has wisely been denied public knowledge...not saying insanity means relation but perhaps there is insanity due to the relation  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2010 : 16:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
Who knows Sammaster is of the same ancestry line as Karse? If so, that may explain Sammaster mad actions.
Insanity isn't a good reason to assume relation...
I think that people are being too eager to find a connection where no evidence of a connection exists.
Any evidence of a connection has wisely been denied public knowledge...not saying insanity means relation but perhaps there is insanity due to the relation
The very notion of the subject of this post is odd! I mean, insanity (if that's what you call it) is hardly a basis for comparison. Szass Tam wants to be a god too. But like Sammaster, I do not think he is Karsus's reincarnated form. For one, both liches are too "composed" and in control compared to the erratic Karsus...And most importantly, Karsus is far more powerful than the two of them combined.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2010 : 22:06:21
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| If insanity indicated a familiar relation, half the wizards in Faerun must be inbred loons! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2010 : 00:29:15
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| Not only the wizards, but half of Faerun's population perhaps... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Karse is Sammaster?!
