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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 16:10:04
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I was wondering how bringing back the dead is viewed in the Realms? Rather restricted or loose? Who would do it and how common are magic items allowing this (like a staff of many lives or such items)?
What is your view on this?
Edit note: I am thinking of spells such as Raise dead or Resurrection and their use - NOT Necromantic magics!!!
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 10 Oct 2007 16:57:50
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 16:38:50
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For common people, just think how you'd react if a necromancer near you started forcing your granny from the grave.
Otherwise, both Jergal and Kelemvor are strongly against creating undead. Kelemvor is not a lesser god.
I can imagine Urogalan and other deities of repose would want to bite your head of, if you are a necromancer specialized in creating undead. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 16:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Aewrik
For common people, just think how you'd react if a necromancer near you started forcing your granny from the grave.
Otherwise, both Jergal and Kelemvor are strongly against creating undead. Kelemvor is not a lesser god.
I can imagine Urogalan and other deities of repose would want to bite your head of, if you are a necromancer specialized in creating undead.
I should clarify my question... I did not mean nercomantic magics but the spells such as 'Raise dead', '(True) Resurrection' and such things. Would clerics of all faiths bring back any person from the dead? Which religion would do it most likely for those not of their faith? What would be the price...? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 17:10:25
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I addressed this in my books....
* Waukeen will do it for money, but she's the only goddess.
* Only High Priests (perhaps 1-3 in any nation) will be able to do it.
* Will generally only do it for a worshipper of their god.
* Furthermore, the church will demand some sort of quest on behalf of the PCs as payment.
So, death is usually very permanent in the Realms unless you're ungawdly rich or have a high level cleric friend of your religion that you've done some good favors for.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 11 Oct 2007 01:50:40 |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 17:19:16
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Yeah.
Money usually doesn't attract the deities' attention, so you'd have to do something that favors the god in question.
When my players had to revive a priest of Baervan Wildwanderer once, they had to do quite alot of missions for the shrines of nature in Waterdeep, before being granted their request.
I wouldn't let a PC cleric use resurrection if he or she hadn't acted in their god's favor and needed the dead person (PC or NPC) to further his deity's cause. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 17:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Aewrik
Yeah.
Money usually doesn't attract the deities' attention, so you'd have to do something that favors the god in question.
True... But it does help further the deity's aims in the mortal world. I'm not saying you can bribe a deity, but a sufficient sum of money will certain encourage a priest to ask his deity for a resurrection spell.
Me, I'd allow the raising of members of other faiths -- so long as the faith was not opposed to the deity. And there would still be some other payment involved -- either a quest now, or a major favor later. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 18:20:35
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Very interesting topic. I can't recall a story where a character was resurrected, except for maybe the two Cyric novels where people were transformed to fulfill the duties asked of by a God.
In the Sellsword series a well loved hero of the lands died, and the possibility of resurrection wasn't even mentioned.
In the Cormyr: The Novel, there were important/rich people that died, and it was said that because of how they died they couldn't be brought back.
Death seems a very permenant thing to non-PCs.
Perhaps players and GMs tend to not take into account that the afterlife would be very enticing for good aligned characters. However if I recall the Realms mythos and the game rules, you can't raise someone that has passed onto their god's realm... right? That they must still be roaming the Fungue Plane in order to be raised.
quote:
Furthermore, will demand some sort of quest on behalf of the PCs as payment.
I could see this only working with good aligned PCs and deities. Again, I don't have the rules in front of me, but gone are the days of raising someone dead for a couple years right? It's just days now?
If I'm recalling correctly, then the quest would have to be picked up after the person is raised. This would require a good amount of trust to be envolved.
Any chance this thread was inspired by OOTS? |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 18:45:14
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The Lady Penitent series shows Eilistraeens being raised left and right. It makes sense that Eilistraee would seek to preserve her relatively few followers but it definitely tends to take away the drama.
Raise Dead exists for game purposes. Making it a common occurrence disrupts one of the fundamental aspects of life. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 18:48:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I could see this only working with good aligned PCs and deities. Again, I don't have the rules in front of me, but gone are the days of raising someone dead for a couple years right? It's just days now?
Depending on the spell, you can bring back someone dead for many years. True Resurrection, for example, is 10 years per caster level.
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
If I'm recalling correctly, then the quest would have to be picked up after the person is raised. This would require a good amount of trust to be envolved.
Not really... Deities have their own ways of dealing with betrayal.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 18:51:29
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| Heh... OOTS has its charm, but I don't think it sets the example for how things are done in the FR cosmology. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 18:51:53
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| i'm playing some of the supplying rules from Dragon about how to keep death an issue ... Revify is the only spell i allow my Players to have ... everything else is at best rare :) |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 01:21:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
The Lady Penitent series shows Eilistraeens being raised left and right. It makes sense that Eilistraee would seek to preserve her relatively few followers but it definitely tends to take away the drama.
I totally agree. It also makes one wonder why Qilue didn't raise two particular individuals who bit the dust in EC's Windwalker novel, since in the LP trilogy she's so gung ho about raising...everybody else! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 01:54:13
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quote:
True... But it does help further the deity's aims in the mortal world. I'm not saying you can bribe a deity, but a sufficient sum of money will certain encourage a priest to ask his deity for a resurrection spell.
As stated, I tend to view this as a serious act of heresy in my games. I go with Keith Baker on this that while Donations are *appreciated* only Waukeen or Mask are the kind of people who will sell Raising as a service. Even most evil deities, I tend to think they realize they can get even more than money out of adventurers. Selling Spells, I tend to think is something that Priests would get slapped down by their deity for. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 01:57:38
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I think of it as the view of the diety/ church. One interesting tidbit in the GHotR
spoiler below
indicated the death of Scyllua Darkhope and Fzoul prohibits her to be resurrected in the future. |
Edited by - scererar on 11 Oct 2007 01:58:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 02:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
True... But it does help further the deity's aims in the mortal world. I'm not saying you can bribe a deity, but a sufficient sum of money will certain encourage a priest to ask his deity for a resurrection spell.
As stated, I tend to view this as a serious act of heresy in my games. I go with Keith Baker on this that while Donations are *appreciated* only Waukeen or Mask are the kind of people who will sell Raising as a service. Even most evil deities, I tend to think they realize they can get even more than money out of adventurers. Selling Spells, I tend to think is something that Priests would get slapped down by their deity for.
I didn't say that it would only be about the money -- only that money would grease the wheels. And then I specifically mentioned non-monetary payment. Kindly read the entirety of the post before replying, next time.  |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 10:15:48
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I dont allow ressurection in my campaign, i believes it ruins the game. Why should the PCs bother to kill a dark lord, when there is a good chance the fellow will return the next day? or the paladin's self-sacrifice to save the child's life isnt much of a sacrifice (no worries we rez him, later)
There are some ways to prevent ressurection but i find them a bit cheesy, its all about game mechanics and hard to adapt with decent RP
One more thing: players tend to get more serious when they know that they have only 1 life (remember super Mario?) |
Edited by - Marquant Volker on 11 Oct 2007 10:16:35 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 10:42:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Very interesting topic. I can't recall a story where a character was resurrected, except for maybe the two Cyric novels where people were transformed to fulfill the duties asked of by a God.
Actually, aside from the Lady Penitend trilogy (which I have not read) there are two incidents I recall the use of such magic:
1. Seiveril resurrects Fflar Shardrow Melruth in the Last Mythal Trilogy. True resurrection used on a Hero of Myth Drannor.
2. IIRC Triel Beanre was resurrected after she was slain by Drizzt Do'urden in (which book was it?)
Aside from that, I really appreciate your comments on this. This means life is a very fragile thing in the Realms as it seems. I do have some more question concerning this topic.
1. Lets suppose, a cleric of Waukeen has been convinced to raise a dead person. However, that person was a worshipper of another god not opposing the church of Waukeen. Could that cleric bring him back? Would that have an impect on the relation of Waukeen and that other god? Would it even be possible as the soul is already in the realm of the other god and that would mean for Waukeen to intervine into a realm of another God?
2. As we all know, only those people with a patron deity do have a chance of being resurrected with 100 % succcess. Those false or faithkess are brought before Kelemvor to be gudged or dragged of by demons and devils to other plans. Can those be resurrected once they entered the realm of Kelemvor or the lower planes or would their faithlessness hinder the divine magic?
2a. Before the soul of a dead person goes to the realm of his god it lingers on the fugee plane waiting to be gathered by is god. How long does someone linger on the fugee plane before he is gathered by his patron deity and can he be resurrected before he has been brought to the realm of his god?
3. How much does the God actually know of the magic his cleric is usuing? Would he even care about those resurrections? And does he know who is being resurrected?
4. What about the player characters of high levels? Should they not resurrect their fellow party members only because they are not of the same faith?
5. quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Revify is the only spell i allow my Players to have
Where do I find that spell and does it do? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 11 Oct 2007 10:50:07 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 12:26:39
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| Revivify acts just like Raise Dead, but it can only be cast the round immediately after the person has died, and the subject doesn't suffer any level/ability loss from being "raised." The Miniatures Handbook, the Spell Compendium, and an issue of Dragon Magazine have the spell in it. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 13:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Revivify acts just like Raise Dead, but it can only be cast the round immediately after the person has died, and the subject doesn't suffer any level/ability loss from being "raised." The Miniatures Handbook, the Spell Compendium, and an issue of Dragon Magazine have the spell in it.
Thanks KJER. I checked it and I like it. This will most certanly be a spell I will have to introduce in my new campaign. Like it a lot. Thanks for bringing this up in the first place, Sian. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 15:19:01
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quote:
2. IIRC Triel Beanre was resurrected after she was slain by Drizzt Do'urden in (which book was it?)
Triel's sister Quenthel, actually, but close enough. It wasn't quite a run-of-the-mill resurrection, either.
quote:
I totally agree. It also makes one wonder why Qilue didn't raise two particular individuals who bit the dust in EC's Windwalker novel, since in the LP trilogy she's so gung ho about raising...everybody else!
Oh yeah, those two.
I think part of it would be the author's particular opinion/handling of resurrection, particularly in the absence of any lore along the lines of "in the event of untimely death followers of Deity X prefer to do A, B, and C"; I remember reading that Elaine Cunningham takes a dim view of the concept, underscored by that short story with Liriel.
But then Lisa Smedman wrote Extinction before she wrote Lady Penitent, and I don't believe the possibility of resurrection ever occurred to any of the Eilistraeens in that book either - though I confess that if a resurrected Seyll had popped up, I probably would have laughed myself sick. |
Edited by - TobyKikami on 11 Oct 2007 15:20:58 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 15:25:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Revivify acts just like Raise Dead, but it can only be cast the round immediately after the person has died, and the subject doesn't suffer any level/ability loss from being "raised." The Miniatures Handbook, the Spell Compendium, and an issue of Dragon Magazine have the spell in it.
Thanks KJER. I checked it and I like it. This will most certanly be a spell I will have to introduce in my new campaign.
There is another spell like that. it's called Last Breath and I beleive Druids get it as a fourth level spell |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
Edited by - Aravine on 11 Oct 2007 15:40:29 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 15:39:17
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quote:
2a. Before the soul of a dead person goes to the realm of his god it lingers on the fugee plane waiting to be gathered by is god. How long does someone linger on the fugee plane before he is gathered by his patron deity and can he be resurrected before he has been brought to the realm of his god?
I forget which book, either FRCS or the Player's Guide, but it had a dice roll for determining this. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 16:32:58
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quote:
But then Lisa Smedman wrote Extinction before she wrote Lady Penitent, and I don't believe the possibility of resurrection ever occurred to any of the Eilistraeens in that book either
Spoilers below...
Actually, if I remember correctly, Seyll does mention raising one of the fighters killed while capturing Hallistra. At least that she intended to try. It seemed to be her attempt to say that Hallistra could be redeemed without having to be punished. Sort of "no blood, no foul" except with "blood" being replaced by "permanent death."
And it turns out that in Resurrection, when it appears Hallistra is down for the count (having taken a mace to the face), she is raised by Qilue. Of course, that is revealed in the beginning of the Lady Penitent series but it was clear something out of the ordinary had happened even in the first reading of Resurrection. Kemp is too good of an author to write something like that without some explanation in mind. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 16:48:52
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quote:
I didn't say that it would only be about the money -- only that money would grease the wheels. And then I specifically mentioned non-monetary payment. Kindly read the entirety of the post before replying, next time.
Wow man, so you agree with me and yet argue with me before getting mad about my correcting you about agreement.
Don't take things so personally.
quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
I dont allow ressurection in my campaign, i believes it ruins the game. Why should the PCs bother to kill a dark lord, when there is a good chance the fellow will return the next day? or the paladin's self-sacrifice to save the child's life isnt much of a sacrifice (no worries we rez him, later)
For me, I find that DMs who don't allow resurrection are also making the setting less believable. I think that it should never be easy but the magic SHOULD exist. It allows storytelling opportunities like minions seeking out a way to restore their Dark Lord or the PCs hoping to return a lost friend to life.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 11 Oct 2007 17:10:28 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 17:09:35
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quote:
1. Lets suppose, a cleric of Waukeen has been convinced to raise a dead person. However, that person was a worshipper of another god not opposing the church of Waukeen. Could that cleric bring him back? Would that have an impect on the relation of Waukeen and that other god? Would it even be possible as the soul is already in the realm of the other god and that would mean for Waukeen to intervine into a realm of another God?
To answer your question of multiple parts.
A. Yes, the Cleric could bring him back so long as he's willing to be restored.
B. Unlikely, as its the choice of the spirit.
C. I use an in-story justification for game mechanics here. Raise Dead allows you to restore someone to life whose still on the Fugue Plane (it usually takes up to a month or so for them to be processed in my games by Kelemvor) while Ressurection actually reaches to the home deities realm.
quote:
2. As we all know, only those people with a patron deity do have a chance of being resurrected with 100 % succcess. Those false or faithkess are brought before Kelemvor to be gudged or dragged of by demons and devils to other plans. Can those be resurrected once they entered the realm of Kelemvor or the lower planes or would their faithlessness hinder the divine magic?
I tend to think that any soul taken by a Demon or Devil and turned into a Mane is impossible to ressurect save with a Wish (reflecting you basically altering reality to restore them to life in some manner---maybe they were never turned into a mane thanks to the spell).
The Faithless and False can be restored in the same way as long as their souls havent' been ground to powder by whatever Ordeal Kelemvor puts them through. I imagine their experience will be pretty nightmarish though and I'd let them remember it, perhaps encouraging them to change their ways.
quote:
3. How much does the God actually know of the magic his cleric is usuing? Would he even care about those resurrections? And does he know who is being resurrected?
I tend to think that Gods know about each and every spell a Cleric of theirs does in his name. In general, I don't think they give a **** about what they're used for unless the Priest does something against their portfolio.
Waukeen is a Neutral Deity so you can do pretty much anything. But a Priest of Tyr who ressurects Fzoul Chembyrl might find himself losing all of his powers.
quote:
4. What about the player characters of high levels? Should they not resurrect their fellow party members only because they are not of the same faith?
In general, I invoke the "PC Clause" which means that PCs, especially PC clerics, as a general rule don't follow the rules of regular clergy. This, in large part, has to do with the fact that PCs are routinely saving the world and the like.
Thus, a Priest of Lathander (The God of Life) might ressurect a Paladin of Tyr and so on. PC Clerics also regularly pass around healing like candy because they're probably doing their jobs work in some way by helping the party. No one would really call them to task if they restored one of their party to life unless they were of a radically different alignment or God (and why are they travelling with them anyway?)
Overall, I think it's important to note that Raising the Dead is a big deal in any religion in Faerun. In my games, it makes a lot of priests uncomfortable for all the theological reasons that people have brought up here.
The books also state that Elves don't believe in ressurection on religious grounds.
In my games, the only people who treat Raising the Dead blaisely are Evil Gods and Lathander of all people. In the case of Evil Gods, they really don't have any particular reverence for the afterlife since their realms tend to be depressing places with their primary motivation being the accumulation of power. Living worshippers = More chance to influence their faith to grow. They do tend to be just as nitpicky about raising nonbelievers though.
Lathander, on the other hand, is a God that believes in Reknewal and Second Chances. In my games, Lathander is the god whose clergy objects the least to requests to resurrect; aside from Waukeen (who its just a business transaction to). They'll still ask for some gigantic quest from you but in general, so long as you're good or neutral aligned, then their reaction is "sure, why not?"
Lathander worshipers also tend to throw around resurrection like other clerics throw around free healing (which is something that a lot of clerics provide to their worshipers for free). Only Ilmater and Lathander really provide healing out of hand to their non-believers, though simple compassion can motivate most good aligned Clerics to act. If a dead child can survive resurrection (questionable in second edition), Lathanderites definitely make a go for it because they never got a chance to live in the first place. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 11 Oct 2007 17:13:12 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 17:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
I didn't say that it would only be about the money -- only that money would grease the wheels. And then I specifically mentioned non-monetary payment. Kindly read the entirety of the post before replying, next time.
Wow man, so you agree with me and yet argue with me before getting mad about my correcting you about agreement.
Don't take things so personally.
You took only a part of my statement, out of context, and called it heresy. How is that agreeing?
And don't twist my words and then tell me not to take it personally. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 17:31:01
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Maybe you should go back and read, you agreed with me. Pointing out that you need to do stuff other than money.
So I can't exactly twist your words can I? And why are you getting so bent out of shape over this?
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 11 Oct 2007 17:31:52 |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 17:53:52
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quote:
Actually, if I remember correctly, Seyll does mention raising one of the fighters killed while capturing Hallistra. At least that she intended to try. It seemed to be her attempt to say that Hallistra could be redeemed without having to be punished. Sort of "no blood, no foul" except with "blood" being replaced by "permanent death."
Yes, that did happen now that I think of it, but it was in the book before that by Richard Baker (Condemnation). In Extinction I don't believe anyone considered trying to raise either Seyll or whatsherface who got killed by a yochlol. In Sacrifice of the Widow, resurrections ran rampant in comparison. I'd chalk it up to different authorial handlings, except... same author. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 18:09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Maybe you should go back and read, you agreed with me. Pointing out that you need to do stuff other than money.
So I can't exactly twist your words can I? And why are you getting so bent out of shape over this?
You took half of my statement -- the part about money greasing the wheels -- and then pronounced it heresy. That is not agreeing with what I had said, that is disagreeing. And then you went on to echo the rest of my statement... You took part of my statement out of context and pronounced it wrong -- that's twisting my words. And that irks me. It irks me more when you deny it.
But I'm done arguing about it. If you're not going to see my point, then I'm done wasting time trying to get you to see it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 18:30:34
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quote:
Originally posted by TobyKikami
I think part of it would be the author's particular opinion/handling of resurrection, particularly in the absence of any lore along the lines of "in the event of untimely death followers of Deity X prefer to do A, B, and C"; I remember reading that Elaine Cunningham takes a dim view of the concept, underscored by that short story with Liriel.
Great point. I wouldn't have expected Elaine to resurrect "those two" in-story, but it makes the constant resurrection in the LP trilogy all the more baffling. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 18:41:55
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Sorry, I didn't pay attention to the authors at the time, since I was relatively new to Realms novels. I was a Salvatore reader (one of those guys) and got duped by the "Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen" on the cover of the first book.
My thoughts on Seyll not being resurrected were that she was the only one around capable of resurrecting people. Of course, that might not have actually been the case but that's what I remember thinking at the time.
On a side note, someone needs to come up with an Eilistraeen adventure for somehow bringing Seyll back. That girl really went above and beyond the call of duty and was completely betrayed for her trust in her Hallistra and her goddess. Folks have been deified for less.
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The Realms and bringing back the dead
