| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 16:10:04
I was wondering how bringing back the dead is viewed in the Realms? Rather restricted or loose? Who would do it and how common are magic items allowing this (like a staff of many lives or such items)?
What is your view on this?
Edit note: I am thinking of spells such as Raise dead or Resurrection and their use - NOT Necromantic magics!!! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 09:52:04
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Therin was hanged to death before Pinch bought his body and resurrected him
the ranger three was in the spellfire series which I am very sure belongs to FR. Belkram, Sharantyr and one other guy whose name I can't recall. Ithar or something.
The night mask removed the heart of their victims after their completion of their duty
Though strangely resurrection is also a spell rarely used.
1) Wulfgar was killed but no one ever thought of ressurection for him of course it was later shown that he wasn't dead
2) The Chosen's of Mystra had many close friend and kin and lover dead but strangely they still never seemed to even think of using their spells.
just as another side note
1) elminster died and was resurrected countless times by Mystra, best example was in the novel "Elminster in Myth Drannor"
Points taken. Thanks for the fast clarifications. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 15:58:11
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
the ranger three was in the spellfire series which I am very sure belongs to FR. Belkram, Sharantyr and one other guy whose name I can't recall. Ithar or something.
´
Actually, the series Chataro is referring to is called The Shadows of the Avatars-trilogy. It's set during the Time of Troubles.
In addition, Sharantyr has a rather important part in the last of the Sharantyr's Saga books. |
| Chataro |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 14:07:21
Therin was hanged to death before Pinch bought his body and resurrected him
the ranger three was in the spellfire series which I am very sure belongs to FR. Belkram, Sharantyr and one other guy whose name I can't recall. Ithar or something.
The night mask removed the heart of their victims after their completion of their duty
Though strangely resurrection is also a spell rarely used.
1) Wulfgar was killed but no one ever thought of ressurection for him of course it was later shown that he wasn't dead
2) The Chosen's of Mystra had many close friend and kin and lover dead but strangely they still never seemed to even think of using their spells.
just as another side note
1) elminster died and was resurrected countless times by Mystra, best example was in the novel "Elminster in Myth Drannor"
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 12:20:56
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
First, sory to have neglected this thread a little the last weeks. Great to bring it back to memory, Charles. That is a very detailed and IMO well thought through take on it, as it focuses on the excessability on diamonds of a certain church rather than on the class levels of their clerics. Am I right? That would lead to the interesting question of how common diamonds of 500gp are?
To reflect a realistic economy, I make it a point that you can't just "conjure" diamonds out of the air. Magically created stuff doesn't work for spells of this nature. Now, it's possible to go to the Elemental Plane of Earth and find much larger diamonds than you would ever find on Toril but that's really only practical for Archmages.
I indicate that the vast majority of diamonds in my realms come from Chult, which gives PCs a reason to go down there anyway. Thus, diamonds are a tad more common in the Realms than they were in Medieval Europe. The rest of the Diamonds come from trade with Maztica and Zhakara.
But, to artificially regulate regulations, Raise Dead is sort of a "Special Ability" as much as a Spell. It's only granted very rarely to Clerics even if they have sufficiently high levels in the Realms. PCs are always exceptions to the rule but it's sorta something a deity grants to especially favored members of the clergy.
Ok, I understand! I would differ here though, as my understanding of the spell granting praactice of the gods is another. I do not believe that they are actually contious of every spell that is being asked for, but rather "grant" their "raw magical powers" to the clerics to "shape" as they seem appropriate in that special moment.
As for the diamond scarcity in the realms - Wolly you are right in pointing out the many possibilities. Esp. the underdark races and dwarves should be an important factor to be reckoned. I missed that one.
To regulate/limit the resurrection of PCs, it eventually will come down to the clergy policy regarding the use of such powerful spells. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 12:04:56
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Just adding, in the novel "King Pinch", Therin was resurrected after he was hanged. And I don't think he was good friends with any high cleric too.
I don't recall that event... I thought he was saved from the gallows? Will have to reread that part once I get home.
quote:
Vangerdahast and Azoun did try to resurrect two nobels in the novel "Cormyr: A Novel" but failed deal to some side effect. this probably means that resurrection is quite a common thing.
Vangy and Azoun are not "common" people, but high lvl NPCs with lots of power and resources, if I may say so. Thanks for pointing that out though.
quote:
resurrection was mentioned again in a novel of Alias Westgate when most of the clerics were unavailable when Alias was trying to remove a curse, apparently they were engaged in raising a bunch of people who died trying to attack a red dragon
In many of Ed Greenwood's novel, people died and ressurected all the time, the rangers 3 for example.
Which "ranger 3" book? Even if it is written by Ed we have to differenciate between his FR-novels and his other works.
quote:
accordling to one of R a salvatore's novel in the Cleric Quintet series, assassins often removed the body parts of their victims so that they could not be resurrected, this would not be a common practise if resurrection was a rare event
That one is a great catch! I have to elabarate on this though. Do you recall the body parts that were removed? It would need to be the head or some vital organ, cause otherwise I see no reason how this could hinder a raising of the dead person. The spell discription of Raise Dead sais:
"While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life."
However, removed body parts are olny a hindrance for the Raise Dead spell, not for Resurrection spells:
"The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death."
Therefore I would doubt that the practice of removing body parts would really qualify as a good measure of preventing resurrections, IMO. |
| Chataro |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 15:46:14
Just adding, in the novel "King Pinch", Therin was resurrected after he was hanged. And I don't think he was good friends with any high cleric too
Vangerdahast and Azoun did try to resurrect two nobels in the novel" Cormyr :A Novel" but failed deal to some side effect. this probably means that resurrection is quite a common thing
resurrection was mentioned again in a novel of Alias Westgate when most of the clerics were unavailable when Alias was trying to remove a curse, apparently they were engaged in raising a bunch of people who died trying to attack a red dragon
In many of Ed Greenwood's novel, people died and ressurected all the time, the rangers 3 for example
accordling to one of R a salvatore's novel in the Cleric Quintet series, assassins often removed the body parts of their victims so that they could not be resurrected, this would not be a common practise if resurrection was a rare event |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 18:36:40
quote:
First, sory to have neglected this thread a little the last weeks. Great to bring it back to memory, Charles. That is a very detailed and IMO well thought through take on it, as it focuses on the excessability on diamonds of a certain church rather than on the class levels of their clerics. Am I right? That would lead to the interesting question of how common diamonds of 500gp are?
To reflect a realistic economy, I make it a point that you can't just "conjure" diamonds out of the air. Magically created stuff doesn't work for spells of this nature. Now, it's possible to go to the Elemental Plane of Earth and find much larger diamonds than you would ever find on Toril but that's really only practical for Archmages.
I indicate that the vast majority of diamonds in my realms come from Chult, which gives PCs a reason to go down there anyway. Thus, diamonds are a tad more common in the Realms than they were in Medieval Europe. The rest of the Diamonds come from trade with Maztica and Zhakara.
But, to artificially regulate regulations, Raise Dead is sort of a "Special Ability" as much as a Spell. It's only granted very rarely to Clerics even if they have sufficiently high levels in the Realms. PCs are always exceptions to the rule but it's sorta something a deity grants to especially favored members of the clergy.
quote:
*smiles* You could always ask them how they plan to support themselves after they are done adventuring (they might not "strike it rich", after all), and ask them how they were supporting themselves before becoming adventurers. Did they just sit around not having a job? Most people can't do that.
That wouldn't probably fly with my players. I'll give you a sampling...
"I was an assassin for Shar, raised by my insane Uncle to be the perfect killing machine. I can never, ever, go visit my clan again for the evils I committed."
"I was a minor Netherese wizard whose soul was trapped in a gemstone for the past 3000 years."
"I'm an exiled Rashemmi Berserker whom will be killed if he ever comes home or encounters another of his kind."
"I'm the daughter of the Archvillain."
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 17:54:43
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I've tried to get my PCs to form ambitions and/or goals, but they never really seem to. I wish I could find a local FR group who was more geared toward the long term. *sigh* Maybe I should go about finally developing my own personal Realms personality in case I find one someday.
*smiles* You could always ask them how they plan to support themselves after they are done adventuring (they might not "strike it rich", after all), and ask them how they were supporting themselves before becoming adventurers. Did they just sit around not having a job? Most people can't do that. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 17:51:13
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
In my group, every character *has* a family, unless the player wants his character to be a "dysfunctional dropout" for some reason. In fact, these character backgrounds often provide potential storyhooks and a logical reason or two how the PC could be implemented into the campaign.
I totally agree! Besides, being an orphan or runaway is so cliched. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 16:19:23
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
My main point is that PCs are ultimate nutcases. They don't behave like regular folks in Faerun; have no plans for the future beyond the next dungeon; and they seemingly never get depressed by the fact that 90% of them don't have regular girlfriends/wives/siblings or parents to fall back on. They're all dysfunctional dropouts who do not want to return home for any reason whatsoever.
Well, PCs don't have to be like that, even if they often are. I like my characters to care about things like family, source of income, the future, etc.
I've tried to get my PCs to form ambitions and/or goals, but they never really seem to. I wish I could find a local FR group who was more geared toward the long term. *sigh* Maybe I should go about finally developing my own personal Realms personality in case I find one someday. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 12:42:34
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I wonder how common 500 €/$ diamonds are in our 21st century modern times...? In the realms, with their lack of technology and limited trade it would be proportionally more rare.
Not necessarily... The amount of mineral deposits isn't necessarily identical, between Earth and the Realms. And the Realms has magic, which could aid in a variety of ways -- summoning the diamonds, perhaps, changing other rocks to diamonds, magical excavation, trips to diamond-rich areas of the Elemental Plane of Earth... And the real world lacks (so far as we know!  ) dozens of intelligent races that live underground, and who often take a great interest in mining.
It's also my understanding that in the real world, a single company dominates the diamond trade. With control of a large portion of the mines and dominance in the overall market, it's in their best interest to keep the flow of diamonds small -- this keeps the demand up. For all we know, diamonds could be a lot more common than we realize, but the majority are being sat on by the various controlling interests.
And since I brought it up, I'll go ahead and issue a disclaimer: I am referring only to the existence of the companies, and speculating only on their production and impact. We don't need to get into the political aspects of the real-world diamond trade. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 09:35:17
First, sory to have neglected this thread a little the last weeks. Great to bring it back to memory, Charles. That is a very detailed and IMO well thought through take on it, as it focuses on the excessability on diamonds of a certain church rather than on the class levels of their clerics. Am I right? That would lead to the interesting question of how common diamonds of 500gp are?
I wonder how common 500 €/$ diamonds are in our 21st century modern times...? In the realms, with their lack of technology and limited trade it would be proportionally more rare. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 02:07:56
Oddly, it's one of my player characters quirks that he wanders around Faerun with not a penny to his name like Kane from Kung Fu (he's also Neutral). But one of the ironies of the game was that we had one PC Thief interested in gold more than anything, for no particularly purpose as we could discern.
After he left for Arvandor after being accepted back to his Race, the guy left the Bag of Holding with it. It supposedly contained a million Gold pieces in wealth and the PCs used it to help rebuild Faerun's various wasted and devastated regions before they used it for the next century to care for their needs in luxury.
How Common is Raising the Dead in the Phippsverse?
In my games, Raise Dead is a spell that is very rarely given out to priests in the Realms even if people can cast it. In my Realms, there's like 15 guys in the whole FR who can st it. Most of these Fifteen are the Patriarchs or Matriarchs of their faiths in question. Of these fifteen, furthermore, only the Lathanderites will cast it without question because it's an article of their faith. Everyone else needs exceptional convincing in order to do so.
3 of the guys who CAN cast it ARE Lathanderites but they're usually booked solid. Dead children, lost lovers, and so on are all being appealed to all the time. Their families throw together the money or the Church does a freebie because they're genuinely nice people. This is what a lot of church tithes oddly goes to amongst the Lathanderites and they have their own diamonds mines. They're located in Suzail, Calisham, and Tethyr.
2 of the guys are worshipers of Kelemvor. They primarily limit their raising of the dead to Great Heroes and Champions of the Faith. If you're interested in slaughtering the undead or demons, are positively SURE that the Dead Guy has unfinished business, and are willing to pony up the cash for the spell components then they'll do some auguries and probably raise him. They're located in Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate respectively.
1 guy is Fzoul Chembyrl and he uses his power to resurrect Banites who are loyal to him. This includes Zhents that have been dead for decades, Wizards, and so on. This is why the Zhents are so damned feared.
1 guy is Cadderly and the Priesthood of Deneir takes a serious boost from the fact that he does it. Cadderly primarily does children and ponies up the cash himself whenever possible but first checks with auguries to make sure that they're going to come back. However, he's often willing to help heroes of the true and blue variety.
The patriarch of Waukeen is a special case because he actually does it for money. He'll resurrect anyone, short of some obscene evil (and that's only if it'll interfere with business), for pure cash. If you pay for the diamond, travel expenses, living expenses (he has very rarefied tastes), and the money in the DMG then he'll raise your dead friend.
Quilue also can raise the dead, she does it so the Goodly drow don't die out. She also is often brought in as "Larael" to raise particularly important Mystran champions or allies of the Chosen.
The remaining seven guys are the Patriarchs of Shar, Tyr, Sune, Chauntaea, Tempus, and Oghma. They're mostly known to resurrect priests of their flock and fallen champions of the faith and that's it. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 02:02:25
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
My main point is that PCs are ultimate nutcases. They don't behave like regular folks in Faerun; have no plans for the future beyond the next dungeon; and they seemingly never get depressed by the fact that 90% of them don't have regular girlfriends/wives/siblings or parents to fall back on. They're all dysfunctional dropouts who do not want to return home for any reason whatsoever.
Well, PCs don't have to be like that, even if they often are. I like my characters to care about things like family, source of income, the future, etc.
In my group, every character *has* a family, unless the player wants his character to be a "dysfunctional dropout" for some reason. In fact, these character backgrounds often provide potential storyhooks and a logical reason or two how the PC could be implemented into the campaign. |
| michaelcroket |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 00:04:43
Also, on the subject of Kelemvor not liking the concept of raising the dead, read Faiths and Pantheons for proof against this. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 23:38:24
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
My main point is that PCs are ultimate nutcases. They don't behave like regular folks in Faerun; have no plans for the future beyond the next dungeon; and they seemingly never get depressed by the fact that 90% of them don't have regular girlfriends/wives/siblings or parents to fall back on. They're all dysfunctional dropouts who do not want to return home for any reason whatsoever.
Well, PCs don't have to be like that, even if they often are. I like my characters to care about things like family, source of income, the future, etc. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 23:32:45
Great discussion guys!
My personal opinion on this: not many NPCs, even those you see in novels, have the kind of funds PCs have.
Granted, King Bruenor probably does, but I wouldn't bet that Drizzt, Wulfgar and Regis have loads of 10K diamonds hanging around in case 'they bite the dust.'
Also, while some loaded NPCs, such as Bruenor, might have tons of revenues, one should remember that they also have tons of expenses (such as rebuilding fallen guard towers along the east wall, erecting a bridge over the Surbrin, importing food for Clan Battlehammer, etc.)
Only PCs are stupid enough to walk around like gypsies, spending every gold pieces they have on 'portable', highly expensive magical items (read: all eggs in same basket; or read: if mugged and rendered unconscious, then stripped of all belongings, the character has LOST ALL WORLDLY POSSESSIONS). Most PCs that played under my DMship have never bothered buying a HOUSE, let alone stow away funds for the hard times (only one in 18 years; he played a gnome cleric/wizard/mystic theurge who started a business, took leadership, and made his cohort partner at 50%... yes, this one had house, monthly income, hundreds of gnome followers and cozy place to warm his old bones come retirement; his followers resurrected him when he bit the dust, and when he woke up on the holy slab, was berated by his gnome wife and force to swear an oath to stop adventuring... good job Paul!  )
My main point is that PCs are ultimate nutcases. They don't behave like regular folks in Faerun; have no plans for the future beyond the next dungeon; and they seemingly never get depressed by the fact that 90% of them don't have regular girlfriends/wives/siblings or parents to fall back on. They're all dysfunctional dropouts who do not want to return home for any reason whatsoever.
So yeah... they all get raised from the dead on a regular basis, but who remembers them in the end?  |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 23:02:31
I don't remember in which of the three novels it was, but in the Shandril Saga, Manshoon tells Fzoul's underling to have him raised after he had been cinderified by Shandril. |
| michaelcroket |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 22:37:56
Page 35 of Waterdeep: City Of Splendor states that the city always pay to cast resurrection on someone that the city watch kills in an attempt to arrest them if they find that the accused is innocent of any crime. Seems like they don't have any problem with bringing people back from the dead... |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 12:48:51
Thanks for those thoughts.
I didn't mention Kelemvor in our campaign because our version of him is completely different from the canon one [He's a former PC with a name change]. However, his doctrine on ressurection was pretty well detailed.
"Everyone has an appointed time and a place to die. To disrupt this cycle selfishly is something that should not be done."
The 'out' being appointed time and place to die was a matter that was always hotly debated in the church. The orthodox version of Kelemvor's church said that people who die fighting demons or against the machinations of gods were people who died before their appointed time.
It's completely non-canon but you might find it worthwhile, Kelemvor's role as the "Lord of Bones" means his clerics are the only ones that can ressurect the dead unwillingly and I gave them always a 100% chance of success. It was useful since LE Clerics of Kelemvor included many who served Banites or other bad guys that didn't want to destroy the world but just ruleit.
This, of course, ALWAYS caused them to become major targets but it lead to a great mini-campaign where a PC who died corrupted by Shar was resurrected by Kelemvor's clergy and had to flee her wrath the rest of the campaign. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 11:47:50
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I hope to hear your thoughts on certain matters.
Rightly so. I will get to this at once.
A foreword:
While running my last campaign (I have to admit, my first campaign which took us about 6+ years or so to finish BTW) I introduced the possibility of raising the dead/resurrecting too loosely. ‘Pay the necessary amount of money and get the spell you desire.’ That ended in the absurdity that the PCs would not want to be brought back to live short of a ‘true Resurrection’ spell, selling all their belongings if need be. Only later did I realize that not every city might have a cleric of high enough levels to accomplish such a spell and that some of those churches might not be all too generous with such a powerful spell. However, after first being rather loose about this point in game play I felt it as 'unfair' to change this all of the sudden, instead encouraging the players to look after their characters lives more closely. It worked somewhat but I was still unsatisfied with the situation. Now with a new campaign coming up in the near future I felt the need to clarify that point from the very beginning - hence this thread.
My thoughts:
First of all I would like to thank all of you for your input. It is highly appreciated and gives my a great second and third opinion on matters. When I posted my questions here I already had a loose idea of how I would go about certain matters. However, I felt it would take away the initiatve of discussion when posting my opinions right away (ending in 'me too' 'I second' posts at worst).
So, coming to my opinions as they have evolved until now, whereas I will not go into the discussion of any novels or the use of authors but rather on the game specific use only:
- As the price for any such spell is very high, money is the first limit. That leaves the most common folk and low level PCs out of the picture to even consider that option.
- I was thinking about being restrictive in beneficial spell use of clergy insofar as they will limit it to those of their own faith or closely associated once (e.g. The Triad, or ) However, that leaves problem of trust, as anyone could simply say he would be worshipper of that deity. Therefore, and since the Realms is a place where people worship more than one god at a time, I will leave it up to the circumstances of each individual time and judge from there. However, raising the dead will be bound by a quest or a task and a price (which stands in relation to the importance of the quest, meaning the harder/more improtant the quest the price lower the price).
- ‘True resurrection’ is a NO-GO. That spell will never be an option. It should be used only for the most dire situations of a nation/clergy to bring back a hero or such a thing. It will not be a game option for the PCs.
- I will make and exception for the clergy of Waukeen. There only the price matters, being 1.5 times higher than the given spell’s price according to the PHB.
- I will introduce the spell Revivify, as I like the concept of the spell.
- Furthermore, the cleric of the party (if there will be one) is free to decide for himself. Otherwise the cleric of the party might see his game options, possibilities and importance to the group diminished.
- I consider introducing an evil cleric to generously offer his services for ‘minor’ favours drawing the PC’s into a possible morale conflict.
- As to the questions concerning the fugee plane and the deity’s interactions – well, as that is not really game related but more or less just a theoretical more philosophical question, I will tackle that issue in my next post. Anyone not interested might want to skimpy next post. 
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 21:25:12
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Not to rekindle any arguments, but the churches in my campaign (regardless of the god) don't do anything for free unless you do something extraordinary for them or are a serious champion of the faith. This has nothing to do with any deity's dogma, but the churches are run by people who have mouths to feed, temples and grounds to maintain, etc.
Great point--components for ressurection spells are costly, as well. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 21:23:02
Apparently my group has a fairly nonchalant attitude towards raising the dead compared to others. Granted, we rarely have a character who wants to be raised. It just doesn't happen that often, and I am a notorious "killer DM", but most of our characters who die simply prefer to stay dead. Now if a character dies and wants to be raised, that's fine, just make sure your party knows your wishes while you can still communicate with them and make arrangements (i.e. have the gold stored somewhere) before you die. In other parties, they may miss a character so much that they go ahead and pay the fees out of pocket, only to have the character's spirit refuse to come back. Either way, in our campaigns you are only limited by the gp requirement and finding a suitable cleric to perform the casting.
Back to the original idea of this topic, I think raising the dead is relatively rare. For one the gp value precludes many from even being able to consider it. Not to rekindle any arguments, but the churches in my campaign (regardless of the god) don't do anything for free unless you do something extraordinary for them or are a serious champion of the faith. This has nothing to do with any deity's dogma, but the churches are run by people who have mouths to feed, temples and grounds to maintain, etc.
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| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 20:24:09
Righto.
I hope to hear your thoughts on certain matters.
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 20:04:20
CHARLES, WOOLY! I aprreciate your input into this thread. However, I would like to remind the both of you to stick to the topic and agree to disagree.
Thanks, guys! |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 19:30:49
quote:
You took half of my statement -- the part about money greasing the wheels -- and then pronounced it heresy.
Taking money IS a heresy *IN MY GAMES* I stated why and you agreed with my point that quests on the other hand are something that are appreciated. So what is your argument?
But you're right, one of us isn't interested in discussing this.
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| Ozzalum |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 18:41:55
Sorry, I didn't pay attention to the authors at the time, since I was relatively new to Realms novels. I was a Salvatore reader (one of those guys) and got duped by the "Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen" on the cover of the first book.
My thoughts on Seyll not being resurrected were that she was the only one around capable of resurrecting people. Of course, that might not have actually been the case but that's what I remember thinking at the time.
On a side note, someone needs to come up with an Eilistraeen adventure for somehow bringing Seyll back. That girl really went above and beyond the call of duty and was completely betrayed for her trust in her Hallistra and her goddess. Folks have been deified for less.
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 18:30:34
quote:
Originally posted by TobyKikami
I think part of it would be the author's particular opinion/handling of resurrection, particularly in the absence of any lore along the lines of "in the event of untimely death followers of Deity X prefer to do A, B, and C"; I remember reading that Elaine Cunningham takes a dim view of the concept, underscored by that short story with Liriel.
Great point. I wouldn't have expected Elaine to resurrect "those two" in-story, but it makes the constant resurrection in the LP trilogy all the more baffling. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 18:09:58
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Maybe you should go back and read, you agreed with me. Pointing out that you need to do stuff other than money.
So I can't exactly twist your words can I? And why are you getting so bent out of shape over this?
You took half of my statement -- the part about money greasing the wheels -- and then pronounced it heresy. That is not agreeing with what I had said, that is disagreeing. And then you went on to echo the rest of my statement... You took part of my statement out of context and pronounced it wrong -- that's twisting my words. And that irks me. It irks me more when you deny it. 
But I'm done arguing about it. If you're not going to see my point, then I'm done wasting time trying to get you to see it. |
| TobyKikami |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 17:53:52
quote:
Actually, if I remember correctly, Seyll does mention raising one of the fighters killed while capturing Hallistra. At least that she intended to try. It seemed to be her attempt to say that Hallistra could be redeemed without having to be punished. Sort of "no blood, no foul" except with "blood" being replaced by "permanent death."
Yes, that did happen now that I think of it, but it was in the book before that by Richard Baker (Condemnation). In Extinction I don't believe anyone considered trying to raise either Seyll or whatsherface who got killed by a yochlol. In Sacrifice of the Widow, resurrections ran rampant in comparison. I'd chalk it up to different authorial handlings, except... same author. |
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