| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 29 Jul 2004 : 23:25:20
Richard Baker has spilled the beans on whats in this book
"Hmmm, well, hadn't seen that before. Uh, in that case--yeah, we are doing a book called Ancient Empires. The authors are Travis Stout and Ed Bonny. I handled the mechanical development work on the book, while Eric Boyd and George Krashos handled a Herculean job of continuity-checking and tweaking.
The main features of the book include:
- A chapter on feats and prestige classes themed around ancient empires.
- A chapter on monsters you often find in or around ancient ruins (which, coincidentally enough, is pretty much the PGtoF's cut monster chapter, with a few new additons).
- A chapter each on half-a-dozen key eras/regions/groupings of fallen empires.
- A number of ready-to-play adventure sites themed around the ruins.
- A brief look at some of the more important "dead" gods, and (at last) a mechanical explanation for why some still have clerics running around.
- A map of Faerun as it appeared in -676 DR, 2000 years ago."
Im glad where going to get another FR Map
We'll we now know where the missing Monsters from PGTF are going to appear
Given the Chapter on dead gods in AE I wonder if the Deathstalker PrC in Dragon 322 will appear in AE.....
*Starts poking George and Eric with a stick* 
PS Its also uo for Pre Order at the Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786936541/qid=1091140073/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/104-8576068-2744735?v=glance&s=books
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Brother Ezra |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 13:55:26
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
I was hoping that they would spend some time discussing ancient Narfell and Raumathar, but the comments I've seen from the designers so far seem to indicate that Netheril, Imaskar, Jhaamdath and a few others will be detailed, but Narfell and Raumathar will only get passing mention, without any detailed writeups  .
I'm hoping that the FR community at large isn't creating unrealistic expectations regarding this product. Note that in previous times, Netheril and Cormanthyr had entire products devoted solely to them and one could argue convincingly that at least one of them didn't produce a 'detailed write-up' of its subject matter. If you are looking for minute detail on every aspect of these ancient empires including sites, people, social stuff, architecture, politics, history, favourite colors, etc. etc. then I feel that you expect too much from a 192 page (or whatever it is) sourcebook. Also, keep in mind that AE is not the Arcane Age product line revisited. It is not about allowing you to adventure in ancient Raumathar. It may assist in creating such campaigns but not without considerable DM elbow grease and original input on their part. If you read the product blurb it emphasizes the 'ruins' aspect of these AE and the ability to incorporate them into the here and now.
-- George Krashos
I probably am guilty as charged  . My first reaction upon seeing news of this publication was excitement over what information would be directly pertinent to my campaign, which draws on the legacy of ancient Narfell and Raumathar heavily. As you mention, in order to do a detailed analysis of the structure, culture, magic and history of every vanished empire in the Realms would require a 300+ page book, which simply isn't going to happen. I'm still satisfied with the approach that is being taken with the product, and am looking forward to the ideas that are presented in it.
Thinking about it now, in a way I'm glad that Narfell and Raumathar may not get extensive coverage. I already have a lot of development of the nature of those two ancient empires, and a detailed look at them in an official WotC publication would codify and canonize such information, which probably would be in conflict with my ideas.
I'm also happy that the book isn't using the "Arcane Age" approach to the publication. I'm more interested in the legacies those empires left behind in the present day than in running a campaign in their heyday. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 04:32:21
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
I was hoping that they would spend some time discussing ancient Narfell and Raumathar, but the comments I've seen from the designers so far seem to indicate that Netheril, Imaskar, Jhaamdath and a few others will be detailed, but Narfell and Raumathar will only get passing mention, without any detailed writeups .
I'm hoping that the FR community at large isn't creating unrealistic expectations regarding this product. Note that in previous times, Netheril and Cormanthyr had entire products devoted solely to them and one could argue convincingly that at least one of them didn't produce a 'detailed write-up' of its subject matter. If you are looking for minute detail on every aspect of these ancient empires including sites, people, social stuff, architecture, politics, history, favourite colors, etc. etc. then I feel that you expect too much from a 192 page (or whatever it is) sourcebook. Also, keep in mind that AE is not the Arcane Age product line revisited. It is not about allowing you to adventure in ancient Raumathar. It may assist in creating such campaigns but not without considerable DM elbow grease and original input on their part. If you read the product blurb it emphasizes the 'ruins' aspect of these AE and the ability to incorporate them into the here and now.
-- George Krashos
I thought as much, which was why I then started to think about the relevance of my hope for a piece on Heldon, or even Athalantar  . It's to be expected that such a tome detailing the ancient realms of Faerun would largely be focused towards the practicality of using such locales in a group's current campaign. I'm not saying that's a disappointing aspect for this tome, just, that this is what the RPG market is presently geared toward. Gone are the days where one would find an FR fluff-encrusted tome, filled with all sorts of assorted and useful information and tidbits on various pieces of both arcane and historical lore...
In the end, I'm sure this tome will have some relevant portions for me to use, and more importantly, read about.
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 01:20:57
Rich Baker also just said this re AE:
"Yes, Ancient Empires has the info on mythal-building. It's integrated with the epic spellcasting system from Epic Level Handbook."
That should put a smile on people's faces.
-- George Krashos
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 01:15:07
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
I was hoping that they would spend some time discussing ancient Narfell and Raumathar, but the comments I've seen from the designers so far seem to indicate that Netheril, Imaskar, Jhaamdath and a few others will be detailed, but Narfell and Raumathar will only get passing mention, without any detailed writeups .
I'm hoping that the FR community at large isn't creating unrealistic expectations regarding this product. Note that in previous times, Netheril and Cormanthyr had entire products devoted solely to them and one could argue convincingly that at least one of them didn't produce a 'detailed write-up' of its subject matter. If you are looking for minute detail on every aspect of these ancient empires including sites, people, social stuff, architecture, politics, history, favourite colors, etc. etc. then I feel that you expect too much from a 192 page (or whatever it is) sourcebook. Also, keep in mind that AE is not the Arcane Age product line revisited. It is not about allowing you to adventure in ancient Raumathar. It may assist in creating such campaigns but not without considerable DM elbow grease and original input on their part. If you read the product blurb it emphasizes the 'ruins' aspect of these AE and the ability to incorporate them into the here and now.
-- George Krashos
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 01:02:36
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The real question from me, that I'm hoping this section answers, is whether there will be any source material on Athalantar in general, and Heldon in particular...?
What kind of information on the little village of Heldon (which was totally blitzed by the Magelord's dragon steed) would be relevant for anything other than an Arcane Age campaign? Just curious...
-- George Krashos
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 13:53:09
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Rich Baker also just added:
"RE: Ancient Empires, you betcha. There's a chapter on the Crown Wars, a chapter on the ancient High Forest, and another chapter on Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr. Plenty of elf stuff."
-- George Krashos
That news is going to make a couple of elf lovers I know very happy. Thanks GK.
I'm no elf-lover, but I'd love to read this stuff, myself. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 13:38:32
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
Still, with the ideas that are put into the book, I'm sure that a great many of them could be applied to Narfell or Raumathar, and an enterprising DM could expand on what information is already available about those two realms. Hmmm. (scribbles down idea for possible future Candlekeep Chronicles article...)
 ::passes Brother Ezra a handful of fine parchment:: |
| Brother Ezra |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 13:08:13
I'm very interested to see what this tome has to offer as well, particularly the section on running a campaign that centers around the exploration of ancient cities and ruins. I was hoping that they would spend some time discussing ancient Narfell and Raumathar, but the comments I've seen from the designers so far seem to indicate that Netheril, Imaskar, Jhaamdath and a few others will be detailed, but Narfell and Raumathar will only get passing mention, without any detailed writeups .
Still, with the ideas that are put into the book, I'm sure that a great many of them could be applied to Narfell or Raumathar, and an enterprising DM could expand on what information is already available about those two realms. Hmmm. (scribbles down idea for possible future Candlekeep Chronicles article...) |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 10:47:21
Well met
Oh i'm very excited about this tome. The ancient empires have been an interest to me since....oh,a lonnnng time ago.
After reading of many ruins in past Realms tomes, I hope they get good coverage. I wonder if the Nar ruins and empire mentioned in Lady of Poison will be detailed. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 08:46:39
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
... a chapter on the ancient High Forest...
The real question from me, that I'm hoping this section answers, is whether there will be any source material on Athalantar in general, and Heldon in particular...?
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 05:31:05
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Rich Baker also just added:
"RE: Ancient Empires, you betcha. There's a chapter on the Crown Wars, a chapter on the ancient High Forest, and another chapter on Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr. Plenty of elf stuff."
-- George Krashos
That news is going to make a couple of elf lovers I know very happy. Thanks GK. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 00:11:05
Rich Baker also just added:
"RE: Ancient Empires, you betcha. There's a chapter on the Crown Wars, a chapter on the ancient High Forest, and another chapter on Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr. Plenty of elf stuff."
-- George Krashos
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 23:30:47
Rich Baker also said the following on the WotC Boards:
"Ancient Empires will have a lot of history/timeline info, but I wouldn't describe it as "just" a timeline or history."
-- George Krashos
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| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 15:50:35
I don't recall seeing this mentioned before, but the product page for this item on WOTC's site appears to have been updated:
quote:
For the first time, the secrets of past empires of the Forgotten Realms world are chronicled in one comprehensive sourcebook. For players, this book contains new options for characters wishing to delve into ancient ruins, including new feats, prestige classes, magic, and equipment. For Dungeon Masters, this book contains new material associated with ruins, including rules for how to build and sustain a ruin-based campaign, more than a dozen detailed adventure sites with maps, and new monsters and artifacts
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 31 Jul 2004 : 04:19:26
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Now what Id like to know is if AE will be "The" Old empires source book, will AE have an Unapproachable east type write up for Chessenta, Unther and Mulhorond?
I'm pretty sure that the title says it all. Ancient Empires shouldn't be implied to be the Old Empires revamped for 3E.
-- George Krashos
Well the Old Empires nations are Ancient as well, Netheril is only 900 years older. So technically Uther and Mulhorand could be considered Ancient empires |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 31 Jul 2004 : 03:52:22
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Now what Id like to know is if AE will be "The" Old empires source book, will AE have an Unapproachable east type write up for Chessenta, Unther and Mulhorond?
I'm pretty sure that the title says it all. Ancient Empires shouldn't be implied to be the Old Empires revamped for 3E.
-- George Krashos
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 31 Jul 2004 : 01:59:21
Dargoths Speculation on what the " A chapter each on half-a-dozen key eras/regions/groupings of fallen empires." will include
As theres 6 chapters:
1) Netheril and the 3 Survivor states
2) Mulhorond*
3) Unther*
4) Chessenta*
5) Elven Kingdoms
6) Dwarven Kingdoms
* These Kingoms still exist today so I suspect they'll get there own chapters, The now deceased Imaskai Empire maybe included in one of * chapters
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| Hymn |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 23:50:17
Hmm, this product really looks interesting. Lots of nice potential, just reading throught this gives me a handfull of ideas to throw at players that come my way |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 23:42:03
Ed Bonny speaks about AE at Enworld
Grumpy Celt: Technically, it does not appear that Ancient Empires will be about the Heartlands. It will be about the rise and fall of ancient empires, such as Mulhorand, Unther, Calimshan, Cormanthur and so forth
Ed Bonny: I would not be so hasty as to buy into that assumption - and for good reason. As one half of the team who wrote Ancient Empires, I know that many lost realms and forgotten kingdoms throughout Faerun are covered - including those that once occupied the lands in and around the Heartlands.
Grumpy celt: Does it at least discuss the three surviving empires?
Ed Bonny: Yessirree Mr. Celt! Yes, it does
------------------------------------------------------------------
Now what Id like to know is if AE will be "The" Old empires source book, will AE have an Unapproachable east type write up for Chessenta, Unther and Mulhorond?
Eric?
George? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 17:48:40
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think the product will speak for itself when it hits the shelves and definitely deserves a place in any FR fan's library.
-- George Krashos
Your information sounds very promising. Thank you GK for sharing it. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 16:45:51
Sounds great; I'll certainly give the new guys the benefit of the doubt. I hope it has some nice dungeons too (part of the reason these civilizations were developed in the first place, and a more appropriate way for them to contact the present than their people bodily returning). |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 16:22:39
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
George, cool that the book's announced now. Tell me you and Eric's influence is substantial, and I'll get it (where I haven't yet bought Unapproachable East and Underdark). The use of apparently Realms-novice authors is baffling, though I know it can be made to work with careful project management.
I got to look at Ed Bonny's stuff as he was churning it out - and was impressed by his desire to research, incorporate previous material and come up with his own stuff that fit in well with the general thrust of the product. Even though he is a 'novice' FR author, I was quietly confident his stuff would be 'good' - and so it proved IMHO.
I didn't have direct contact with Travis, and Eric looked at most of his stuff (although I had a chance to comment also). All in all, I was very pleased with the final, rough, unedited product. Lots of really juicy stuff was generated that will get the FR fans buzzing - and hopefully we caught all the "errors", and it all fits continuity-wise.
I think the product will speak for itself when it hits the shelves and definitely deserves a place in any FR fan's library.
-- George Krashos
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| Faraer |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 16:06:22
George, cool that the book's announced now. Tell me you and Eric's influence is substantial, and I'll get it (where I haven't yet bought Unapproachable East and Underdark). The use of apparently Realms-novice authors is baffling, though I know it can be made to work with careful project management. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 15:55:20
Just keep in mind people, the book is titled "Ancient Empires". Gods like Myrkul and Bhaal were still around up until 1358 DR ...
-- George Krashos
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| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 15:30:06
quote:
Originally posted by Jerard Doonsay
When is this scheduled for release?
02/05 |
| Sarelle |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 15:20:05
A chill ran down my spine as I read this - not because it looks bad, it seems to have a lot of potential, even if the authors give me slight reservations - but because of the dead gods part.
Believe me, I'll lap it up, but as Dargoth pointed out this may be a sort of "crunch time" for BG canon. If they don't include it, that won't change my views - I'll be very disappointed at yet another case of ignoring poor old Phil, but if they do, I'm gonna jump for cover.
Anyway... the map should be fun. And hopefully we'll get a write-up of the gods of the different periods, rather than numerious scribes attempting to compile full lists of gods during: A) Netheril and B) Unther. |
| Jerard Doonsay |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 15:20:01
When is this scheduled for release? |
| The Wanderer |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 13:47:58
This book looks extremely interesting. I look forward to seeing the chapter on both the Dead Gods and the history of the Ancient Empires. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 07:01:42
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Out of curiosity, what else have Travis Stout and Ed Bonny done?
Bonny worked on Monster Manual II. Stout has done some work for D20 companies as well as PGTF. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Jul 2004 : 06:56:58
Out of curiosity, what else have Travis Stout and Ed Bonny done? |
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