| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Zsych |
Posted - 02 May 2013 : 15:40:03
Hi guys,
Haven't played FR in a while. I was wondering if there are interesting sourcebooks and novels for the 4E state of Thay and / or Netheril. Anything particularly cool known to be happening? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 20 May 2013 : 14:27:56
I fail to see the connection. He certainly does not shout “Dreadlocks!” er, “Szass Tam!” and transforms into a chubby man in tights. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 17:11:18
Hmm okay, can we just call him shazam from now on ? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 10:47:03
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Which pretty much should make everyone turn mad. Nine dimensions is even too much for Szass Tam to cope with.
He did it one dimension at a time, starting with four. Nine is his limit. He nearly lost his bearing when he reached that number, and he admitted that if went to ten and beyond, he would be incapacitated for a long while.
We’ve discussed this topic in this scroll.
|
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 10:09:59
Which pretty much should make everyone turn mad. Nine dimensions is even too much for Szass Tam to cope with. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 08:23:14
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
I do have a question, what was up with Sazzam , doing the looking along all the different dimensions of reality, to figure out a way to fix one of his rings?
The Dread Rings were more of a “concept” than physical entities. The physical fortresses were merely focus points through which the magic can anchor in the Prime Material Plane. What the zulkirs and Aoth’s company destroyed was one of such concepts, thus disrupting the whole design. To fix that design, Szass Tam needed to see where the links of the DRs were, so he cast a spell that enabled him to see reality in nine dimensions. |
| silverwolfer |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 02:30:58
I do have a question, what was up with Sazzam , doing the looking along all the different dimensions of reality, to figure out a way to fix one of his rings? |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 16 May 2013 : 08:48:37
I think it was not really clear if he was destroyed or just lost a (big?) part of his power. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 15:52:50
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Yes in Bury Elminster deep its revealed that the blue flame items where created by Larloch in scheme to restore himself with the stored magic in there (iirc).
I recall it saying Larloch was involved with the blueflame items. I don't recall it saying he was destroyed. Also, he made the blueflame items prior to the spellplague. I think it was meant as a form of contingency for him. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 14:46:51
Guess I don't have to read the next book now...  |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 08:29:18
Yes in Bury Elminster deep its revealed that the blue flame items where created by Larloch in scheme to restore himself with the stored magic in there (iirc). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 06:13:12
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Wasn't Szass Tam allready building the dread rings in the haunted lands trilogy before the spellplagaue struck? In this case the Neverwinter one can't have been buildt bevore the ones in Thay.
My memory’s a bit cloudy at the moment. I’ll have to double-check the timeline later. But I vaguely remember the construction of the Dread Rings in two different locations were done almost at the same time, not (as what I previously mentioned) before the other. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 06:10:22
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just wondering, where's this "Larloch's destroyed at this moment" coming from? I'm kind of out of the loop on the 4e history, but this part piques my interest.
Ed’s more dedicated fans or THO herself might be able to clarify that. I stopped reading the Sage of Shadowdale series after being tremendously disappointed with the first book. But I vaguely recall some scribes mentioned the Larloch bit in books 2–3, along with the blueflame items lore. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 23:25:10
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just wondering, where's this "Larloch's destroyed at this moment" coming from? I'm kind of out of the loop on the 4e history, but this part piques my interest.
For that matter, I know nothing of all this "Neverwinter's destroyed"/"Thay and Netheril fighting" other than what I've seen here (I'm not a big RAS fan more due to the volume of stuff I have to read ahead of me and I'd hate to jump in at the end). Is there a good lore only 4e product that someone would recommend (or is the lore so bad people would recommend I shy away).
Not on top of my 4E lore, either, so I'm not familiar with the Larloch bit. For Neverwinter, though, the volcano that kept it warm erupted and did much damage to the city. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 22:08:35
Just wondering, where's this "Larloch's destroyed at this moment" coming from? I'm kind of out of the loop on the 4e history, but this part piques my interest.
For that matter, I know nothing of all this "Neverwinter's destroyed"/"Thay and Netheril fighting" other than what I've seen here (I'm not a big RAS fan more due to the volume of stuff I have to read ahead of me and I'd hate to jump in at the end). Is there a good lore only 4e product that someone would recommend (or is the lore so bad people would recommend I shy away). |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 19:15:24
Wasn't Szass Tam allready building the dread rings in the haunted lands trilogy before the spellplagaue struck? In this case the Neverwinter one can't have been buildt bevore the ones in Thay.
Also the FR wiki makes it sound like it was no ordinary black dragon that is burried near Neverwinter. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 17:49:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I thought RAS's books took place before the finale of the Haunted Lands, meaning the Thayan Dread Rings hadn't been activated yet. If that is the case, I would think the Neverwinter Dread Ring might be a proof of concept attempt or that there is more than one ring (as in, concentric, ever widening rings) with the Thayan ring as a focal point.
Yes. I forgot about that. Beast and I “compared notes” regarding the timeline, and it appears like the one in Neverwinter was erected before the ones in Thay were. So perhaps it’s a “prototype.”
I think a prototype would make some sense, as would building it away from where you plan to actually do the ritual. Tam would want to know what would happen when one of these is fully built and possibly get a better idea of the ins and outs of building one. He likely knows he only gets one shot with the Thayan Rings so knowing as much as he can would be important. He would want to test it elsewhere in case something goes wrong it won't screw up Thay and render it unusable in the big ritual. I don't know if the other side of the continent makes sense, but some distance outside of Thay does. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 15:31:16
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Going for a Dracholich all the way to the Sword Coast is out of his way in my opinion. It is a incentive to add the Cult of the Dragon into the fold, but that still does not sell me the whole point of Thay at the Sword Coast.
It’s really a problem when authors of a shared world setting are unaware of the lore behind the character, artifact, or any concept they incorporate in their works. (Note that Richard wasn’t even aware his concept of the Dread Rings was “borrowed.”) I’m not blaming RAS (who most likely only depended on whatever his editor told him about the subject at hand) or anyone. FR just needs to reestablish the “Guardian of Continuity” post.
And yes, going for a dracolich across the other side of the continent sounds lame. He could summon another creature of Xingax’s caliber who’s capable of creating various forms of undead that rival or possibly even surpass a dracolich. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 15:19:39
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
(2) the nature of the land of Neverwinter meets the requirements for a Dread Ring–suitable location. He didn’t exactly specify what those requirements are, so we can only guess.
Apperently an ancient very old black dragon is burried there which was the reason for Szass Tam to build the dread ring above its dead body.
And Valindra is trying to get the cult of the dragon to raise it as a dracolich.
Sounds boring to me.
quote:
I for one am very interested in the shades search for Ioulaum and what will result when they really find him or raise his enclave.
As I am. It’s been years since their return. It would be something if, finally, another fellow archwizard gets to join them. I don’t expect the alliance or joining of forces would last, of course, but having it is in itself quite interesting as it would usher a lot of possibilities . . .
quote:
Another interesting part could be what happens when Larloch who seems to be destroyed at the moment but plottet for his return has time to focus on these events. If he sees Tam and Thay as his agents he might help them.
Some of Szass Tam’s powerful artifacts were gifts from Larloch, the greatest of which (I think) is Thakorsil’s Seat. And Szass Tam once performed an errand for Larloch. So it’s possible they have a somewhat “special” relationship. The question is, if—and this is a big if—Larloch commits to helping Szass Tam, what could he possibly gain in return? With three floating enclaves at their disposal, Shade has grown more formidable. And Larloch had been severely affected by the Spellplague that restoring himself to his former glory must be his priority right now—not joining some skirmishes from which he may not gain anything. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 15:04:13
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I thought RAS's books took place before the finale of the Haunted Lands, meaning the Thayan Dread Rings hadn't been activated yet. If that is the case, I would think the Neverwinter Dread Ring might be a proof of concept attempt or that there is more than one ring (as in, concentric, ever widening rings) with the Thayan ring as a focal point.
Yes. I forgot about that. Beast and I “compared notes” regarding the timeline, and it appears like the one in Neverwinter was erected before the ones in Thay were. So perhaps it’s a “prototype.” |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 09:44:15
Going for a Dracholich all the way to the Sword Coast is out of his way in my opinion. It is a incentive to add the Cult of the Dragon into the fold, but that still does not sell me the whole point of Thay at the Sword Coast. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 09:19:15
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
(2) the nature of the land of Neverwinter meets the requirements for a Dread Ring–suitable location. He didn’t exactly specify what those requirements are, so we can only guess.
Apperently an ancient very old black dragon is burried there which was the reason for Szass Tam to build the dread ring above its dead body.
And Valindra is trying to get the cult of the dragon to raise it as a dracolich.
This is stated in the fr wiki and if true I guess it also comes from the Neverwinter Campaign Setting.
I for one am very interested in the shades search for Ioulaum and what will result when they really find him or raise his enclave.
PS: Another interesting part could be what happens when Larloch who seems to be destroyed at the moment but plottet for his return has time to focus on these events. If he sees Tam and Thay as his agents he might help them. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 18:20:11
I thought RAS's books took place before the finale of the Haunted Lands, meaning the Thayan Dread Rings hadn't been activated yet. If that is the case, I would think the Neverwinter Dread Ring might be a proof of concept attempt or that there is more than one ring (as in, concentric, ever widening rings) with the Thayan ring as a focal point. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 18:12:17
Even before the Death Moon Orb literally exploded in his face, he was already mad. All liches are anyway. They just vary in degree. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 18:01:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
but Asmodeus and Thay, im not completely buying dread ring and rituals to be in the same area. Especially Thay doing it so far away from their home is striking me a bit wrong, with or without crossroads in the Shadowfell. It does indeed feel forced to a degree.
I was originally in that same boat. But now, not quite. I’m no fan of Drizzt nor RAS nor any of his signature characters; and I even disliked how he portrayed Szass Tam in his quick cameo in one of the Neverwinter novels. Still, personal preferences aside, I think these are the two most plausible explanations: (1) the (pathetic) Dread Ring in Neverwinter is a decoy; Szass Tam is building them somewhere, somehow, or (2) the nature of the land of Neverwinter meets the requirements for a Dread Ring–suitable location. He didn’t exactly specify what those requirements are, so we can only guess. As for Rashemen and Aglarond, the two supposedly “obvious” target choices, it’s, again, possible that the land, after some careful inspection, didn’t prove fit for the Dread Rings. Or they’re simply too close to the fallen Dread Rings in Thay that erecting new ones in either of them would ruin the whole grand design. I’m just trying to be optimistic and really, seriously hoping that Richard (one of the very few who did Szass Tam justice) could write another book addressing this “mess.”
I know its not a popular viewpoint amongst Candlekeepers but it could also be that Tam has gone somewhat mad due to the influence of the death moon orb, and as a result he is attempting things that a sane person wouldn't because his arrogance prevents him from acknowledging he's overstepping his bounds. Why else would it be that Netherese would intrude upon his very territory and he's not swarming them (ok, don't answer that, because yes I can come up with reasons.... like he's in the midst of some long-lasting ritual that he would rather lose territory over than stop). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 15:36:16
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
but Asmodeus and Thay, im not completely buying dread ring and rituals to be in the same area. Especially Thay doing it so far away from their home is striking me a bit wrong, with or without crossroads in the Shadowfell. It does indeed feel forced to a degree.
I was originally in that same boat. But now, not quite. I’m no fan of Drizzt nor RAS nor any of his signature characters; and I even disliked how he portrayed Szass Tam in his quick cameo in one of the Neverwinter novels. Still, personal preferences aside, I think these are the two most plausible explanations: (1) the (pathetic) Dread Ring in Neverwinter is a decoy; Szass Tam is building them somewhere, somehow, or (2) the nature of the land of Neverwinter meets the requirements for a Dread Ring–suitable location. He didn’t exactly specify what those requirements are, so we can only guess. As for Rashemen and Aglarond, the two supposedly “obvious” target choices, it’s, again, possible that the land, after some careful inspection, didn’t prove fit for the Dread Rings. Or they’re simply too close to the fallen Dread Rings in Thay that erecting new ones in either of them would ruin the whole grand design. I’m just trying to be optimistic and really, seriously hoping that Richard (one of the very few who did Szass Tam justice) could write another book addressing this “mess.” |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 15:16:29
Yes, that is the in-setting reasoning.
But we all know it was just to dump as many story elements around Neverwinter as possible.
Hell, they even moved Gauntlgrym. 
Neverwinter Games = great sellers. Bob Salvatore novels = Great sellers. Dump one into the other and stir the pot, and hope to save the Realms. A rather simplistic formula... I wish them the best.
What was that expression about eggs and a basket?  |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 15:15:43
I would have to agree with Marusktay though. It does feel everything pulled into one, Asmodeus cultists,Netherese,Thay, Aboleths, local Gangs vs oppressive foreign Lord, Orcs, Drow.... Mind you it does offer alot of adventuring possibilities and your everyday heros can do a swing with his sword and hit someone who mad deserve it, but i really don´t see the appeal for Neverwinter by the "big players". Ok the Netherese do may have the enclave, i give them that, Aboleths doing their schemes ok, i can get that aswell but Asmodeus and Thay, im not completely buying dread ring and rituals to be in the same area. Especially Thay doing it so far away from their home is striking me a bit wrong, with or without crossroads in the Shadowfell. It does indeed feel forced to a degree. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 15:06:02
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I just can't get into the whole "Thay is on the West Coast now" thing. That entire storyline has no appeal to me whats so ever. Its like they needed to dump everything they could right next to Neverwinter. Its pretty damn heavy-handed.
Szass Tam needs another sizable and untarnished land that would be the focus of the Dread Rings, after his failed attempt to activate them in Thay. Why he chose a land far away, a land where a lot of potential enemies reside nearby, remains a mystery . . . |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 14:47:30
Apperently (at least to the FR wiki) Waterdeep drove the sahdes out of Neverwinter again |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 May 2013 : 14:32:31
I just can't get into the whole "Thay is on the West Coast now" thing. That entire storyline has no appeal to me whats so ever. Its like they needed to dump everything they could right next to Neverwinter. Its pretty damn heavy-handed.
They are very obviously depending on the love of the Video Game franchise to bring FR back, and I am just not seeing it. Then again, I am probably the only 'rabid fanboi' who has NEVER played any of the VG's, so I am not the target audience for the new Realms.
And I'm okay with that. |
