| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rhezarnos |
Posted - 19 Mar 2005 : 17:26:51
A question came up to my mind after I visited a dwarven mine and an elven settlement. Is it possible for them to cross breed? These...'dwelves', do they exist? What do they look like? What abilities do they possess? I'm really interested about this and hope for feedback, be it suggestions or comments. A better name instead of 'dwelf' is also appreciated. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 27 Dec 2010 : 06:14:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I haven't encountered any dwelves in FR novels. But outside the Realms, there are. I think it was mentioned in Feist's At the Gates of Darkness---some of the demon's prisoners in the old castle, together with humans, pure elves, and pure dwarves. I'm not so certain, though. I'll have to check it later. Or perhaps Wooly, who I understand also reads Feist, can verify it.
I don't recall any, but I've only read the book once and not recently.
But yup, I do read Feist. He's my fave author, and I have all of his books. 
I skimmed through that part where Pug and company were exploring the demons' lair and found the prisoners. They were human, elves, and dwarves. And unfortunately, no mention of dwelves. But for some reason, I think I remember Jim or Gulamendis once commented he saw a prisoner that looked like a half-elf, half-dwarf...'Tis hard to find such a tiny bit of information in a rather thick novel. So for now I say I might be wrong on this... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 27 Dec 2010 : 06:04:01
So the dwarves' blood is "genetically stronger" than the elves', eh? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Dec 2010 : 00:03:33
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I haven't encountered any dwelves in FR novels.
They're like dwarves really, in that, I don't think dwelves have been a rather well-represented race in the fictional Realmslore. But then, there probably hasn't been any particular need for that anyway. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 20:49:22
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I haven't encountered any dwelves in FR novels. But outside the Realms, there are. I think it was mentioned in Feist's At the Gates of Darkness---some of the demon's prisoners in the old castle, together with humans, pure elves, and pure dwarves. I'm not so certain, though. I'll have to check it later. Or perhaps Wooly, who I understand also reads Feist, can verify it.
I don't recall any, but I've only read the book once and not recently.
But yup, I do read Feist. He's my fave author, and I have all of his books. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 18:39:13
I haven't encountered any dwelves in FR novels. But outside the Realms, there are. I think it was mentioned in Feist's At the Gates of Darkness---some of the demon's prisoners in the old castle, together with humans, pure elves, and pure dwarves. I'm not so certain, though. I'll have to check it later. Or perhaps Wooly, who I understand also reads Feist, can verify it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 16:22:53
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The wiki page for Planetouched mentions Azerblood (Faerūnian Planetouched descended from Shield Dwarves and Azers) and Maeluth (dwarves with devilish blood).
I like the Azerblood. Wasn't there also an Ecology of . . . article for them in Dragon?
Close. The article was "Legacies of Ancient Empires" by Eric L. Boyd, and it was in Dragon 350. The article was Realms-specific, and covered four types of Faerūnian planetouched: azerbloods (shield dwarves and azers), celadrin (elven worshippers of Hanali Celanil and eladrins (usually firre)), d'hin (singular d'hin'ni, lightfoot halflings and djinni), and worghests (barghests and goblins). I really liked that article!
That's it! Thanks Wooly.
I think the d'hin are kind of interesting as well. I have been wondering whether I should write a Coramshan/Calismhan article that details an ancient tribe of d'hin operating around the time of some Shoon Dynasty.
You could submit it to the main site. Or, maybe, depending on the status of Matt James Compendium project, you could offer it as a submission. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 15:46:49
I really liked that article, myself. All those flavors of planetouched are pretty nifty, and there's a lot of potential for worghests as opponents.
Oh, and Sean K. Reynolds had something similar to celadrins on his website: eladree. His eladree are the same basic concept as celadrin, but rather predate them. I'd allow either, if I was DM'ing. |
| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 06:46:34
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The wiki page for Planetouched mentions Azerblood (Faerūnian Planetouched descended from Shield Dwarves and Azers) and Maeluth (dwarves with devilish blood).
I like the Azerblood. Wasn't there also an Ecology of . . . article for them in Dragon?
Close. The article was "Legacies of Ancient Empires" by Eric L. Boyd, and it was in Dragon 350. The article was Realms-specific, and covered four types of Faerūnian planetouched: azerbloods (shield dwarves and azers), celadrin (elven worshippers of Hanali Celanil and eladrins (usually firre)), d'hin (singular d'hin'ni, lightfoot halflings and djinni), and worghests (barghests and goblins). I really liked that article!
That's it! Thanks Wooly.
I think the d'hin are kind of interesting as well. I have been wondering whether I should write a Coramshan/Calismhan article that details an ancient tribe of d'hin operating around the time of some Shoon Dynasty. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 05:49:30
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The wiki page for Planetouched mentions Azerblood (Faerūnian Planetouched descended from Shield Dwarves and Azers) and Maeluth (dwarves with devilish blood).
I like the Azerblood. Wasn't there also an Ecology of . . . article for them in Dragon?
Close. The article was "Legacies of Ancient Empires" by Eric L. Boyd, and it was in Dragon 350. The article was Realms-specific, and covered four types of Faerūnian planetouched: azerbloods (shield dwarves and azers), celadrin (elven worshippers of Hanali Celanil and eladrins (usually firre)), d'hin (singular d'hin'ni, lightfoot halflings and djinni), and worghests (barghests and goblins). I really liked that article! |
| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 02:21:51
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The wiki page for Planetouched mentions Azerblood (Faerūnian Planetouched descended from Shield Dwarves and Azers) and Maeluth (dwarves with devilish blood).
I like the Azerblood. Wasn't there also an Ecology of . . . article for them in Dragon? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 02:06:50
LOL! you must mean the "original" version. The one I played was technically the third incarnation of the game, and was quite amusing with all the songs that were in it!!
Here's a better pic of those little trow guys- in one of the best songs from the game, no less!
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHF5uoonR-c&feature=related |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 01:58:40
Don't know the game (although I've heard of it). My version is based more upon the folklore version (which isn't much, considering how convoluted RW fey-lore is). 'Trow' just seemed the best fit for a Troll-Drow crossbreed.
The concept was this - a small clan of Dark Elves resided in the Treggi Jungle in ages past, and when the Descent Curse afflicted them, they became even more reclusive. Over the years, they have tried various methods to rid themselves of their weakness to strong light, and at the same time make themselves stronger (since humans had moved into the region, and were now chopping-away at THEIR forests!)
One of their few 'successes' was breeding with trolls (of all things), which made them very ugly, but allowed them to combine the benefits inherent in both species. They regenerate (only Reg:2 though), and although they dislike bright light, it doesn't hamper them (similar to Orcs or Dwarves). Fire is still the only way to keep them from regenerating, but it doesn't do extra damage. If killed outright, they will not 'come back' as a full-blooded troll would (the regen is only active so long as they are alive). Lost limbs take weeks to grow back as well, not minutes. Their culture is very similar to that of Wild (Grugach) Elves, and they are not above cannibalism in regards to other intelligent races (although they cook all their food thoroughly - they are NOT trolls). They protect their jungle savagely.
Another Homebrewed crossbreed of mine is the Hobgoblin.
Oh? You heard of them? 
Not really... those are just the ones that have been around so long they have now become their own, distinctive 'race' (as half-Elves have in certain regions).
What a Hobgoblin is is a cross between a normal Goblin and an Orc. Such couplings happen in-canon (in EE), and yet we have absolutely no lore in regards to what that produces.
which is why I say we do - its just 'hidden in plain sight'.
As for the 'How' of it - its like a Liger (Tiger/Lion crossbreed) - the resultant creature is 'greater' then the sum of its parents. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 07:37:15
I remember playing Bard's Tale. About a hundred years ago on my Apple II+ clone - a superior model: with the full 64KB of RAM, dual CPUs (6502 and Z80), and a numeric keypad, oh yeah. Way better than the C64 version. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 05:10:38
ROFL!!! I'm sorry, MT, but when i hear "trow", I picture this: http://archive.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?platform=GC&image=/previews/september03/bardstalemulti/07.jpg
I would have used a better image, but there are surprisingly few trow pics from the Bard's Tale on the net.... But anyone who had played the game on X-Box or Pc will know what I mean!! *sings: "Oh, it's baaad luck to be you. The prophesy is never coming true! When you think that you're in luck, in the bullocks you'll get struck..."* I loved those little guys!! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 04:10:32
My position isn't as relativistic - there's plenty of "bad lore" which I'm happy to avoid, lol. Canon and non-canon, Wizbro and third-party, every D&D edition (although, to be fair, Wizbro products generally set high standards which many third-parties attempt to emulate; most "bad lore" is from bygone days). The poor reception above on this Races of Consequence book is enough to keep me away from it; there's books of "good lore" I'd rather buy instead.
I can't find any reference to Maeluth - aside from the wiki page, where are they found? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 03:17:44
I reiterate: there is no such thing as 'bad lore' - merely different levels of usefulness depending on how far you need to tweak it.
For example, one of the few cartoons that I absolutely REFUSE to watch is Little Mermaid. God knew how much I can't stand 'girly things' and he was kind enough to bless me with four boys (which made my ex-wife really sad, so in the long-run that was just another plus). Having four boys means I get to buy all sorts of cool action figures and other 'neato' toys... and say it was for them. 
It also means I had an excuse to watch all those cartoons for years. 
ANYHOW, that show revolved around one of those 'Disney Princesses', so there was no way in-hell it was ever going on in MY house (with my boys). Recently, while flipping through the channels looking for something to pass the time (I wasn't at home), I looked through all the cartoon channels and Little Mermaid was on. Now normally, I can't turn it off fast enough, but the remote was being stubborn (Batteries low, I assume), so I had to hit the damn button over and over again to get it to change.
HOWEVER, in those few seconds it was 'stuck on', I noticed Ariel (I learned her name - YUCK!) was sad (which made ME happy) because she couldn't play some really cool-looking undersea organ (Sage, take note). I have to admit, it was pretty freaky looking, and that appealed to me (all made out of shells and what-not). Anyhow, in the few moments it had managed to catch my attention, the mermaid (Ariel) tried to play it anyway, and a horrible cacophony ensued.
Which woke the Seaclops.
YES... SEAclops - it was the top half of a cyclops with the bottom-half of an octopus! How friggin' cool is that? I can't wait to use that on someone!
Thus proving that regardless how wretched some 'lore' may appear, you can still walk away with a few gems.
Oh... and I showered afterward... I felt 'sullied'. Damn Disney.
The top half look something like This Guy.
EDIT: On Topic (sort-of)
In the utter East thread over on WotC, we had been working on some pretty interesting region-specific critters, and one of them was a Drow-Troll crossbreed, called a 'Trow', naturally (which is a RW folklore name for a dark elf-like creature). As a reference, I used the pic of the Thoul from the 2e Mystara MM supplement. That creature looks a lot like one of the creatures from the VG (Blood & Magic) based in that region, which is where we got the initial concept. They live in the Treggi Jungle (although not subterranean, that dense jungle has a very thick canopy, thus keeping the interior very dark and foreboding). |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 02:13:07
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality.
Yeah, I'd stay well away from that tome. It takes rather liberal interpretations of existing D&D lore.
So we can expect it to be declared canon under the new rules then? Yes, I'm kidding. Still, I think I'll track it down and see what it contains.
I just realised that I may have unintentionally sparked a somewhat deliberate sense of unfairness against that particular netbook. I didn't mean to imply that others shouldn't check it out for themselves -- merely, from my perspective at least, that because the book doesn't rely solely on D&D lore to flesh the races out, means that it didn't really interest me all that much.
Normally, I don't have a problem with that either. But since I've already plotted a lot of material for cross-breeds in my campaigns, that tends to draw upon nearly 20+ years of my own Realmslore, I found it difficult to properly make use of the info contained in the netbook.
Others can, and obviously will, find it useful in other regards. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 01:56:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality.
Yeah, I'd stay well away from that tome. It takes rather liberal interpretations of existing D&D lore.
So we can expect it to be declared canon under the new rules then? Yes, I'm kidding. Still, I think I'll track it down and see what it contains. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 01:52:30
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
There's also the tome Bastards and Bloodlines, for those who are interested. forgot who published it. Had some interesting crossbreeds, like the troll-dwarf one that I suspect is going to be the race for my short, hairy, claw-bracer using bbn/rngr PC.... He calls everyone "bub".
 Love the character concept... the publisher of the aforementioned tome is Green Ronin, iirc... it's one of the few OGL titles from them that's missing from my library. 
Edit: troll-dwarf? So is that a twarf? Or is that too droll? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 11:26:41
The wiki page for Planetouched mentions Azerblood (Faerūnian Planetouched descended from Shield Dwarves and Azers) and Maeluth (dwarves with devilish blood). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 04:33:25
One of my players once played a (now long dead) necromancer who had devised Vashleron's Vile Transfusion; he basically needed a "full infusion" of troll blood every couple of weeks to gain their regenerative ability ... it ended up fully transforming him into a typically stupid ugly troll after a few years. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 23:55:23
There's also the tome Bastards and Bloodlines, for those who are interested. forgot who published it. Had some interesting crossbreeds, like the troll-dwarf one that I suspect is going to be the race for my short, hairy, claw-bracer using bbn/rngr PC.... He calls everyone "bub". |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 23:51:58
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality.
Yeah, I'd stay well away from that tome. It takes rather liberal interpretations of existing D&D lore. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 22:00:29
Thanks Wooly! The Way Back Machine did indeed have that. What a great site. Makes me think of Scooby-Doo and Austin Powers. Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 21:34:56
Well, you know the saying- "You can drink 'em pretty...." LOL!!! Might be more true than we realize! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 11:38:20
Humans can (and probably will) breed with anything, it seems. |
| Sill Alias |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 08:14:10
I think that's human privilege, but I can be wrong. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 08:10:08
Hey, Sill! Looks like we both read that chart. As an aside, elves and orcs can't cross-breed, either. |
| Sill Alias |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 07:45:24
Hey, this discussion is pretty funny!
Well, I have to break it. I think the whole (most) crossbreeding chart was in Book of Erotic Fantasy...18+ age guide. So kids, bugger off that thread!
I remember correctly that it says halflings cannot breed with most races. Race crossbreeding, physiology and pregnancy are the most useful information bits... Aside from other things... |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 05:30:09
I'm inclined to think dwarf-orc hybrids do not exist outside of a necromancer's laboratory. Even improbable elf-orc crossbreeds seem more likely. |
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