| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 11 Mar 2020 : 20:13:36
Good afternoon everyone,
I was thinking about why trading is not done more efficaciously in the Realms, between certain powers. The Shining South, arguably the most free trade form of capitalism in the Realms, has access to enormous money, and profoundly good trade relations with Halruaa. Why for example are there not powerful portal systems set up between such nations, that allow instant travel, and thus circumnavigating pirates, etc.?
For example: a large portal/gate is established in Heldapan to Halarahh. However, for national security reasons, the two have initial off-site arrival points for goods inspection to ensure that goods meet the standards of the host nation. This extreme convenience would allow for greater taxation, ensure a good entry point for goods/products inspection, and facilitate what would in effect be a JIT (Just in Time Inventory System). The economic impact of such trading policies would bring economic domination the world over and get other countries to start investing this. It would effectively globalize the world through trade, much like we see in the real world with technology.
As for safety, it would be protected with anticipate teleport spells which would delay the arrival of the party coming in by 'x' period of time, and there would be scrying censors on either side of the portal so that any terrorist/enemy group making there way through the portal would have a delay, that could be stopped by closing the portal and shunting them back to the initial location where the locals can detain and incarcerate them.
This kind of stuff is seemingly avoided, and I cannot think as to why. Imagine how different the world would be if Waterdeep was directly connected to a mutual trade port with Calimport, Heldapan, Suzail, Baldur's Gate, Athkatla, etc.?! Wow. It would be epic!
Thoughts?
Best regards,
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 17:21:56
Master Arcanamach,
Yeah, that makes sense regarding the domination of people's, nations, etc. through their use. I would honestly think by now though, that Shar would have pushed a much stronger agenda to dominate that way using the Shadow Weave.
Best regards,
|
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 17:18:43
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Someone may have already mentioned this but Mystra actively tries to prevent any one person/group/nation from establishing and controlling too many portals. There are dangers involving them and she also wishes to prevent them from dominating other people/groups/nations through them. You can reference one of her former Magisters (in Secrets of the Magister) for a bit of info on this (I forget which Magister it was though).
That said, assuming no Spellplague (or similar incidents in the future) I believe it's only a matter of time before your hypothetical portal trade comes to fruition. It's happened with at least 3 nations before (Netheril, Imaskar and Myth Drannor) on some level. Methinks it will happen again.
I am not sure how divine goals would affect the development of portal trade:
1. Gond would not want magic to dominate in such a basic societal function. I could see him doing what he can to delay it until he has a technological solution to match it.
2. Mystra would want this since it would make magic more common place and thus acceptable to the general public. She would likely encourage it.
3. Waukeen would probably support this since having portal trade would increase the amount of trade.
4. Shaundakul may not like it. If you don't have long-range trade or caravans, why would you need a god for it. Would he risk losing followers? |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 17:02:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
Great topic! And something I think of often, both for the Forgotten Realms and also my various homebrew worlds.
In my muggle-life I am an economist, and perhaps I think about this stuff more than I should. One of my players is a trade economist and thinks about this stuff even more than I do!
I think the fundamental tension is as follows. On the one hand Forgotten Realms is full of trade which occurs on boats and, even more expensively, on overland caravans. On the other hand, the Forgotten Realms is full of magic, including magic allowing the instantaneous transportation of goods and people between one location and another. This begs the question, why not use this teleportation magic for trade instead of these old fashioned nonmagical methods?
So I think the first choice for every DM is whether teleportation-for-trade is something you want to embrace or to avoid. If you're embracing the use of teleportation magic to facilitate trade, probably the teleportation activity and network will grow until the opportunity costs of casting Teleport and/or maintaining Teleportation Circles are equal to the profit made from buying low in one region and selling high in another. This will standardize the prices of goods across the world, creating a 'world market', especially for high value-to-weight goods like magical items. Possibly low value-to-weight goods will still be transported in the old fashion nonmagical ways, but it is important not to underestimate how slow, expensive, and dangerous nonmagical methods of travel for trade are, especially overland trade.
Alternatively, you could try to cook things up somehow to make it so teleportation magic doesn't get used for trade. This is what Ed Greenwood tries to do yes? I think this is also the camp I'm in, largely because trade caravans and overseas boats are (1) cool and (2) great grist for adventure. So the challenge here is coming up with ways to make teleportation either too costly or too risky for it to be used profitably and sustainably for trade.
You could also split the difference -- having trade for high value-to-weight goods like magic items occurring via teleport, and low value-to-weight goods like grain occurring via boat.
TheIriaeban, do you agree with this way of analyzing things? And if so you're more in the embracing teleportation-for-trade camp?
Sorry for the late reply. I just saw this.
I would say that teleporting for trade would be limited to luxury items (which is basically what Aurora's Emporium is) since they tend to have both low volume and low weight. I don't really see bulk trade (high volume/low profit margin) using magic for a couple different reasons:
1. Magic is power and the wizards that come up with the spells necessary for bulk trade would not share them. Wizards simply do not trust each other.
2. If one group got this trade advantage, you can bet that every other trade organization would do everything and anything to get that capability for themselves while also figuring out a way to sabotage the other guy. There are already spells in existence that will re-direct a teleport so I could see those being used to "hijack" any location that is a known teleport destination (I have no idea how Aurora compensates for that but she must have). |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 27 Nov 2020 : 12:10:16
Someone may have already mentioned this but Mystra actively tries to prevent any one person/group/nation from establishing and controlling too many portals. There are dangers involving them and she also wishes to prevent them from dominating other people/groups/nations through them. You can reference one of her former Magisters (in Secrets of the Magister) for a bit of info on this (I forget which Magister it was though).
That said, assuming no Spellplague (or similar incidents in the future) I believe it's only a matter of time before your hypothetical portal trade comes to fruition. It's happened with at least 3 nations before (Netheril, Imaskar and Myth Drannor) on some level. Methinks it will happen again. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 07 Nov 2020 : 00:17:05
Acolyte Wendolyn,
quote:
In my muggle-life I am an economist, and perhaps I think about this stuff more than I should. One of my players is a trade economist and thinks about this stuff even more than I do!
Just following up on this as you are the only other person on here who does economic work for a living. I am not an actual economist, as I do consulting in that field alongside other disciplines, predominantly marketing and operations management.
I'd love to hear more from you on this. A rare treat for sure to run across someone in the same'ish field of work!
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Oct 2020 : 04:21:30
Acolyte Wendolyn,
I also created this scroll for discussion. Let me know what you think about the economics of the deceased!
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23300
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Oct 2020 : 03:36:02
Acolyte Wendolyn,
You are an economist?! :) I worked on cluster economics in my MBA. Not the biggest field of economics, but I found it interesting. You are the only other person on this site who I know of who has worked in the same field!
So....please....delve in and let's go crazy here! I also have another scroll that I created months ago about this, back in March. I'd love to discuss the Realms through that lens with you more! Below is the url to it:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23297&SearchTerms=economics
quote:
I think the fundamental tension is as follows. On the one hand Forgotten Realms is full of trade which occurs on boats and, even more expensively, on overland caravans. On the other hand, the Forgotten Realms is full of magic, including magic allowing the instantaneous transportation of goods and people between one location and another. This begs the question, why not use this teleportation magic for trade instead of these old fashioned nonmagical methods?
I commented another scroll I saw earlier about this! I have the URL below! I'd absolutely love to discuss this stuff with you. I saw you commented and apparently you responded here from that.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21439&SearchTerms=trade,teleportation
quote:
So I think the first choice for every DM is whether teleportation-for-trade is something you want to embrace or to avoid. If you're embracing the use of teleportation magic to facilitate trade, probably the teleportation activity and network will grow until the opportunity costs of casting Teleport and/or maintaining Teleportation Circles are equal to the profit made from buying low in one region and selling high in another. This will standardize the prices of goods across the world, creating a 'world market', especially for high value-to-weight goods like magical items. Possibly low value-to-weight goods will still be transported in the old fashion nonmagical ways, but it is important not to underestimate how slow, expensive, and dangerous nonmagical methods of travel for trade are, especially overland trade.
I agree with you, but to delve into it further, I feel the issue is that the few nations that could afford to create and maintain such a delivery system would facilitate either a monopolistic or oligopolistic response that would create significant deadweight loss. That loss might be good over a longer period for market entrants to leverage competitive advantage through disparate technologies of their own (other forms of magic perhaps) or more efficient and creative offerings.
I like your outlook on low value-to-weight goods as that really, to me, is an opportunity for those weak in the market to leverage better integration methods in the supply chain to develop competitive offerings. The monopolistic/oligopolistic inefficiencies (assuming they do what most do) could be made not as valuable if the supply chain became valuable in a manner where time was not as relevant. A JIT system is awesome most of the time, but not always, depending on what is being sold.
Have you read also read the D&D scaled for play accessory, "A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe"? It's by Expeditious Retreat Press, and it gives a great layman's perspective on monetary systems, specie, financing, banking in medieval times, a bit on contracts, etc. It's a great book for the person who is not vested in economics.
I very much look forward to talking to you about it more!
Best regards,
|
| Wendolyn |
Posted - 23 Oct 2020 : 00:13:43
Great topic! And something I think of often, both for the Forgotten Realms and also my various homebrew worlds.
In my muggle-life I am an economist, and perhaps I think about this stuff more than I should. One of my players is a trade economist and thinks about this stuff even more than I do!
I think the fundamental tension is as follows. On the one hand Forgotten Realms is full of trade which occurs on boats and, even more expensively, on overland caravans. On the other hand, the Forgotten Realms is full of magic, including magic allowing the instantaneous transportation of goods and people between one location and another. This begs the question, why not use this teleportation magic for trade instead of these old fashioned nonmagical methods?
So I think the first choice for every DM is whether teleportation-for-trade is something you want to embrace or to avoid. If you're embracing the use of teleportation magic to facilitate trade, probably the teleportation activity and network will grow until the opportunity costs of casting Teleport and/or maintaining Teleportation Circles are equal to the profit made from buying low in one region and selling high in another. This will standardize the prices of goods across the world, creating a 'world market', especially for high value-to-weight goods like magical items. Possibly low value-to-weight goods will still be transported in the old fashion nonmagical ways, but it is important not to underestimate how slow, expensive, and dangerous nonmagical methods of travel for trade are, especially overland trade.
Alternatively, you could try to cook things up somehow to make it so teleportation magic doesn't get used for trade. This is what Ed Greenwood tries to do yes? I think this is also the camp I'm in, largely because trade caravans and overseas boats are (1) cool and (2) great grist for adventure. So the challenge here is coming up with ways to make teleportation either too costly or too risky for it to be used profitably and sustainably for trade.
You could also split the difference -- having trade for high value-to-weight goods like magic items occurring via teleport, and low value-to-weight goods like grain occurring via boat.
TheIriaeban, do you agree with this way of analyzing things? And if so you're more in the embracing teleportation-for-trade camp? |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2020 : 07:11:36
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,
Absolutely great information on those spells. I have to admit, I completely forgot about Item as a spell, and those others are awesome. If you can shrink them in size to 1/12th, then there is that much more that can go into a portable hole or bag of holding. That is the real deal with transportation for large scale economic development!
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2020 : 06:06:36
Master Icelander,
Fantastic idea on the use of portals! I am totally stealing that! I even remember reading somewhere from Ed that he commented on permanent gates, teleport-cirlces, etc. effectively going on the fritz on occasion and the people using it just not being seen or heard of anymore. Your idea seems to jive with that.
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Oct 2020 : 06:04:09
Learned Scribe bloodtide_the_red,
I am really interested in this. What are you referencing that concludes that? I don't ask that antagonistically, by the way, just curious what leads you to that viewpoint.
I referenced Ed answering a question regarding what nations fit the Dark Ages, and this is his response:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/11/24/what-part-of-forgotten-realms-would-best-suit-these-requirements-dark-ages-or-medieval-tech-level/
Effectively, there are some that meet that requirement, but by not all being in there, we know that most are in fact not in the equivalent to the Dark Ages from Earth.
Interested in hearing your thoughts on that.
Best regards,
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Jul 2020 : 00:01:40
My understanding is that most MMORPGs have some sort of item tokenizing spell/ability. So a character can make large heavy things (or collections of things) into tiny lightweight portable versions. Most players seem to use these things to tokenize all the epic loot they're hoarding or collecting but are not (yet) actually using. Not for provisions, not for emergency tools/supplies, not for transporting dragonhoards back to town. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 20 Jul 2020 : 17:08:22
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Spell description says that the Itemized can only be reverted back to normal by either by tossing it on a solid service or by the command of the original caster (without just waiting for the duration to end). So, those anvils are going to be basically a rug until they hit the ground. If the caster is the one doing it so they can try for a raining effect, they are going to have to risk a very large rain of missile weapons of all types since they are going to have to be touching the Itemized to command it to revert to normal. Plus, anvils are not going separate by much. The area of effect is 5 cu/ft per level. Even at level 20, that is only 100 cu/ft so you are talking about an area (if each anvil is 2 ft tall) of 50 sqft. That is an area that is 5 ft by 10 ft. That may stink for the couple guys underneath it but the rest of the guys on the wall will be ok (unless the anvils do enough structural damage to take out a section of the wall).
Plus, if it is the actual caster doing the delivery, why use this spell when you have a huge number of other spells that can be used. That 20th level caster is going to have some really powerful choices in taking out a wall's defenders and the wall itself. If you absolutely want to drop something, create a wall of force at an angle above the target and then cast wall of iron over and over. At 12th level, you get a wall that is 180 sqft instead of 30 sqft using the improved version at 12th level.
the hitting of the solid surface is the thing. Attach to arrow (even a blunt one), aim at ceiling, wall, etc.... or simply at an individual. The issue is more with the spells level versus what it can do (i.e. 4th level). The options you are describing are all higher level spells cast in combination. Hopefully its cool to give feedback, as I appreciate such myself. Spells are one thing that are very hard to adjudicate yourself, because you are automatically inclined to only see what you pictured it being used for. Like Ayrik pointed out, a LOT of us abused Item back in earlier editions simply because it was low level.
I like your feedback. It certainly wasn't discussed during the creation of the spell. I'm going through what I would say if a player said what they were going to do with it.
For the arrow-thing, I would say it won't work. You would have to roll it around the arrow because if you pierce the image, you destroy the items contained. So, you would have a rolled image hit the floor and I would say it would not de-itemize in that case. It has to be unrolled when it hits the surface. The only way for it to de-itemize in that situation is for the duration of the spell to expire. Even then, I would require the material that is keeping it rolled up to fail a saving throw. If it makes it, the items contained are permanently lost.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Jul 2020 : 15:41:46
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Spell description says that the Itemized can only be reverted back to normal by either by tossing it on a solid service or by the command of the original caster (without just waiting for the duration to end). So, those anvils are going to be basically a rug until they hit the ground. If the caster is the one doing it so they can try for a raining effect, they are going to have to risk a very large rain of missile weapons of all types since they are going to have to be touching the Itemized to command it to revert to normal. Plus, anvils are not going separate by much. The area of effect is 5 cu/ft per level. Even at level 20, that is only 100 cu/ft so you are talking about an area (if each anvil is 2 ft tall) of 50 sqft. That is an area that is 5 ft by 10 ft. That may stink for the couple guys underneath it but the rest of the guys on the wall will be ok (unless the anvils do enough structural damage to take out a section of the wall).
Plus, if it is the actual caster doing the delivery, why use this spell when you have a huge number of other spells that can be used. That 20th level caster is going to have some really powerful choices in taking out a wall's defenders and the wall itself. If you absolutely want to drop something, create a wall of force at an angle above the target and then cast wall of iron over and over. At 12th level, you get a wall that is 180 sqft instead of 30 sqft using the improved version at 12th level.
the hitting of the solid surface is the thing. Attach to arrow (even a blunt one), aim at ceiling, wall, etc.... or simply at an individual. The issue is more with the spells level versus what it can do (i.e. 4th level). The options you are describing are all higher level spells cast in combination. Hopefully its cool to give feedback, as I appreciate such myself. Spells are one thing that are very hard to adjudicate yourself, because you are automatically inclined to only see what you pictured it being used for. Like Ayrik pointed out, a LOT of us abused Item back in earlier editions simply because it was low level. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 19 Jul 2020 : 23:02:18
Spell description says that the Itemized can only be reverted back to normal by either by tossing it on a solid service or by the command of the original caster (without just waiting for the duration to end). So, those anvils are going to be basically a rug until they hit the ground. If the caster is the one doing it so they can try for a raining effect, they are going to have to risk a very large rain of missile weapons of all types since they are going to have to be touching the Itemized to command it to revert to normal. Plus, anvils are not going separate by much. The area of effect is 5 cu/ft per level. Even at level 20, that is only 100 cu/ft so you are talking about an area (if each anvil is 2 ft tall) of 50 sqft. That is an area that is 5 ft by 10 ft. That may stink for the couple guys underneath it but the rest of the guys on the wall will be ok (unless the anvils do enough structural damage to take out a section of the wall).
Plus, if it is the actual caster doing the delivery, why use this spell when you have a huge number of other spells that can be used. That 20th level caster is going to have some really powerful choices in taking out a wall's defenders and the wall itself. If you absolutely want to drop something, create a wall of force at an angle above the target and then cast wall of iron over and over. At 12th level, you get a wall that is 180 sqft instead of 30 sqft using the improved version at 12th level. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Jul 2020 : 21:53:05
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Other uses:
Since it doesn't affect the animate or living, dig people out of an avalanche, find someone hiding in a hay stack.
It can be used to preserve food/carry provisions (if a fire doesn't continue to burn then food won't rot).
Since it doesn't affect magic items, separate magic items out in a pile of items.
Hmmm, idea for a higher level spell...say level 7 or so. It CAN do living so that people could be smuggled either for slavery or war. It would be great for slavers because they could travel through "civilized" areas without fear of getting caught and you wouldn't have to feed the slaves on the journey. For war, it could be used to get "commandos" rapidly into areas where you cannot teleport them in. Or, Itemize a few army units and you have an instant army inside an enemy's fortifications.
Bear in mind, you CAN do a lot with that, you need to weigh the game balance issues before making it available. Like I was saying, that improved item spell simply becomes a major catastrophe much beyond any other spell of similar level by enabling the quick and easy relocation of large amounts of explosives in an area. Throw in multiple uses of the same trick over and over in an area and you can quickly see how it can get abused.
That's just me thinking about it for 30 seconds. I'm sure with more thought, I could come up with even more issues. For instance, there's no limit placed on the spell for what all can be in it. So, I can in theory fill it with anvils, bricks, metal spikes, etc... and have these raining down on people by breaking the item above them. Castles would be decimated by individuals on flying mounts, etc... dropping bundles of anvils on them, etc... Then we can further break it down by including ideas like bottles of acid, etc... |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 19 Jul 2020 : 18:48:32
Other uses:
Since it doesn't affect the animate or living, dig people out of an avalanche, find someone hiding in a hay stack.
It can be used to preserve food/carry provisions (if a fire doesn't continue to burn then food won't rot).
Since it doesn't affect magic items, separate magic items out in a pile of items.
Hmmm, idea for a higher level spell...say level 7 or so. It CAN do living so that people could be smuggled either for slavery or war. It would be great for slavers because they could travel through "civilized" areas without fear of getting caught and you wouldn't have to feed the slaves on the journey. For war, it could be used to get "commandos" rapidly into areas where you cannot teleport them in. Or, Itemize a few army units and you have an instant army inside an enemy's fortifications. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 17:19:28
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Item is such an overlooked spell. "Is that a campfire in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Of course, my PCs might as well have named the spell Delayed arson.
Lol, tell me about it. Itemize 5 rather large "jugs" of oil, also a campfire... tie them all to an arrow.... granted a long setup for the return on investment, but on downtime days, something to do.
Oh, and that improved item spell above, you might as well call that a mass catastrophe in motion. I can see someone casting that on huge barrels of oil (in glass) as well as things like chicken grease that's congealed and throwing in a campfire. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 15:41:05
My copies of the 2e PHB and WSC Vol 2 both have Item with a 4 hour/level duration so I haven't seen that. The improved item was developed so that no coin was left behind while adventuring. Greed is one heck of a motivator, too.
Delay Spell Effect was an assignment for an apprentice to come up with. It has been used mostly to serve as a misdirection ("How could I have cast that spell when I was over here with you?") One suggestion was, if timed right, to have 3 damage spells go off at once but enemies generally just won't wait for 4 rounds for you to set that up. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 05:02:05
Ah, item has a maximum duration. Up to 1 hour per level in some 2E prints, or up to 1 day (max) in other 2E prints. We usually accepted the flat 24 hour max duration, I can't remember why.
The PCs would strategically place or scatter a bunch of itemized fires (apparently just curious little scraps of cloth with pictures of fires on them) then leave. They'd be most of a day's ride away by the time the fires (re)ignited. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 03:18:21
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Item is such an overlooked spell. "Is that a campfire in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Of course, my PCs might as well have named the spell Delayed arson.
Funny you should mention that:
Delay Spell Effect
(Alteration)
Level: 3
Range: 0
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 round
Casting Time: 3
Area of Effect: The caster
Saving Throw: None
This spell will allow the caster to delay the effect of the next spell cast. The caster decides on the length of the delay when this spell is cast and cannot change it. It is possible for the caster to decide to not delay the next cast spell and that will just cause this spell to be wasted.
The amount of delay granted by this spell is up to 1 round per two caster levels above level 5 (i.e. one round at level 5, two at 7, three at 9, four at 11, and the maximum of five rounds at level 13). No other magic can extend this delay.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 03:07:44
Item is such an overlooked spell. "Is that a campfire in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Of course, my PCs might as well have named the spell Delayed arson. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 03:07:27
And, the wand I mentioned:
Wand of Trading: A simple, wooden wand with gold filigree, this wand provides several functions that makes it easier to transport goods. Each function has its own command word. The functions are:
• For one charge, the wielder can invoke a Drawmij’s beast of burden spell for 12 hours. This effect doubles the amount of weight a mount or other beast of burden can carry for the duration.
• At a cost of two charges, the wielder can activate a transfer. This operates at 8th level so that it can affect up to 2 people. The wielder of the wand does not have to be one of the persons transported. However, the wielder of the wand does select the destination locus.
• The final function costs three charges and allows the wielder to utilize an improved item spell on up to 35 cubic feet of material for up to 28 hours.
These wands are rechargeable.
|
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 03:01:13
The 5th level spell I mentioned:
Set Teleport Locus
(Alteration/Enchantment)
Range: 0
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 1 turn
Area of Effect: A 5-foot by 5-foot area
Saving Throw: None
This spell enchants a specific area to act as an aid for teleportation spells. If a caster is using a teleport spell to travel to this location, the magic of this spell will guarantee that the teleport is errorless. The area to be target of this spell must be immobile (you cannot create a teleport locus on a ship or in a wagon).
The locus provides no benefit if it is the source location for a teleport and not the destination (of course, if both source and destination locations are loci then the errorless benefit does occur). It also does not affect any other spell that targets an area even if that spell is one that transports someone/something by means other than teleportation (i.e. spells that create portals or movement via another dimension like a shadow walk spell).
The material components of this spell are a brush and a jar of pigments made from octopus or squid ink and powdered diamond (2,500 gp worth).
The 3rd level spell that can utilize the loci:
Transfer
(Alteration)
Range: 0
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None
The transfer spell is used to teleport from one existing teleport locus to another on the same plane. This teleport is errorless due to the magic of the loci ensuring the accuracy of the teleport. The limit is one person at level 5 with an additional person every three levels after that so that it can be 2 people at level 8, 3 at level 11, 4 at level 14, and so on. The weight limit is 250 pounds of encumbrance per person teleported. The people to be teleported must be touching the caster or someone else who is touching the caster (a circle of people holding hands is fine).
The person who is transferring will get a brief glimpse of the destination and has one segment to cancel the transfer (this means that the absolute minimum time needed for the spell to fully function is two segments). If more than one person is transferring, everyone gets a glimpse with the option of halting the teleport for themselves only. The teleport will not happen if there is something has happened at the portal site that will result in the person transferring materializing in solid matter.
The 4th level Improved Item spell:
Improved Item
(Alteration)
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 4 hours/level
Casting Time: 1 round
Area of Effect: 5 cubic feet/level
Saving Throw: Special
Basically just a more powerful version of the 3rd-level spell item, this spell was created to aid in the transport of goods by being able to affect any non-living, inanimate collection of items (pile of coins, crates, blocks of stone). Liquids cannot be affected unless they are already in a container. If the duration expires or the caster decides to end the effect and the goods are inside another container, the container will be destroyed by the sudden increase in volume by the returning goods. If this happens in a portable hole or some other extradimensional space that doesn’t have enough room left, the container is ruptured with the usual loss of the contents.
The material component is the one or more targeted items. They are not harmed in any way by this spell.
And the 5th level Anti-Divination Shell (which is really helpful when hunting patrols from The Darkhold because they are monitored from The Darkhold):
Anti-Divination Shell
(Alteration/Enchantment)
Range: 0
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 round/level
Casting Time: 1 turn
Area of Effect: A sphere 10 feet in diameter/level
Saving Throw: None
The spell will prevent all divination magic from being able to enter or leave the area of effect. Divination magic can operate normally inside the sphere but cannot exit the sphere. The sphere will be opaque to anyone using divination magic to view into/out of the sphere. However, normal and non-magical vision of all types (including infravision) will be able to view into and out of the sphere.
The area of effect is determined at casting time and cannot be moved once cast.
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| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 14:43:10
I was working on something like this but I don't have all the spells completely fleshed out yet. First, there is a 5th level spell that essentially just enchants a location to make it easier to teleport to. Then, there is a 3rd level spell that can be used to teleport but only to one of the previously set locations (max 2 people since the enchanted area is only 5 ft by 5ft).
To be able to move goods, I have a spell called Improved Item. Basically an Item spell that can work over an volume and not on a single item (so, several boxes could be made easily transportable).
Lastly, a wand was created that had both the capability of using these "transfer portals" and the improved item spell. The result: a single individual can transport a wagon-load equivalent of material over vast distances. I would imagine that Aurora made something very similar.
Edit: Oh, forgot to mention Anti-Divination Shell. A 5th level spell that prevents divination magic from passing from one side to the other. Area of effect is a sphere 10 ft in diameter per level. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 08:52:21
In my campaigns, I postulate that most portals built with modern magics are subject to fraying that correlates with the level of traffic. Portals that only a few people go through per month may last many centuries without any problems, but if many tons go through per day, it multiplies the odds that unsavoury extraplanar powers become aware of the portal, it shifts somehow or otherwise invites otherworldly hazards.
If you check the history of most places that made heavy use of portals, the eventual consequence was almost always a planar invasion of some sort. So there almost has to be some mechanism which makes portals unsafe in the long term, even if those effects are not immediately apparent on an adventuring time-scale (and thus not mentioned in the spell write-ups).
The Imaskari might have known secrets of steadier and safer portal designs, considering how long their civilization lasted with heavy use of portals and that the end was not actually related to anything uninvited coming through the portals. If so, those secrets seem to have been mostly lost in the modern Realms, leaving most mages with access only to the kind of portals which tend to break down with catastrophic results within a few decades if used heavily enough. |
| bloodtide_the_red |
Posted - 10 Apr 2020 : 03:47:51
The basic idea is that much of the Realms is in the "Dark Ages", before the Renascence. So generally 1000 to 1380 is a time of ''weaker" magic.
Also while the 3e/3.5E/4E and 5E make magic as easy as just to this and it absolutely always works perfectly.... 1E and 2E were not where that kind. In 1E/2E portals could kill you, transform you, send you to way off wrong locations, steal all your items....or worse. Plus in the Storytelling Realms away from the rulebooks, portals are dangerous too.
Also 2E did have a bit about Mystra guarding portals and making sure there was no mass control or trade.....and she made portals dangerous. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 04:34:01
Great Reader Ayrik,
Well, I of course agree with your well reasoned argument.
I honestly believe as some FR designers have made statements alluding to here: certain specialized fields would be difficult to write about when the outcomes, if consistent, would need to be predicated upon a science that can demonstrate said output.
I'm glad to read that someone else here can appreciate the value of such aspects of the Realms world!
I really do feel that the wizards, and others, who can see the value of innovation (hello Gondan priests and those inspired) bringing a better world to the masses, would have made such efforts and been successful. I think that those who deny that, are just trying to keep a certain feel to the world that doesn't comport with how beings function largely.
Great examples by the way!
Best regards,
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Mar 2020 : 03:30:10
I don't accept that traditional answer. Plodding through profit margins might indeed be boring for some. But it's invigorating for others.
And even the most bored and jaded wizard might not be strongly motivated to live the reckless, half-suicidal, dirty, cold, and uncomfortable life of a hero or adventurer. His ability to cast spells like teleport could be a profitable source of employment, or he could simply hire accountants and mercers to do his grunt work, either way he only needs to dedicate a few spell slots and a few hours each day to making boring but steady profit.
We have all seen how many hundred of thousands or millions of gold a wizard needs to equip a decent library and a decent laboratory. Not to mention the costs of spellbooks, spell components, alchemical reagents, premium inks and quills and lab glassware, unusual materials or telesma, and the sundry costs of food and robes and maintaining kind of tower to put everything into. A wizard might strive for rarefied intellect above base worldly concerns but he's still gotta eat and still gotta afford the tools of his trade. Many wizards choose launch their career with gold and glory from epic adventure (and many of those end up dead before progressing far). Other wizards would choose less exciting, less dangerous, equally successful career paths. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Mar 2020 : 23:55:34
Great Reader Ayrik,
Hmmm....I can appreciate what your intent is there. However, fundamental theories of economics do not agree with you.
Economies of scale would drive those fixed costs into the dirt. The variable costs you cannot of course minimize as they are going to be proportionate, but the volume of trade increasing at the exponential rate it would would drastically drown out the minimal costs that would be present. If it were the opposite, the modern trading world in the RL would still be using horses, wagons, and be non-internet based. haha
quote:
Of course this pragmatic approach opens the question of why nations (like Cormyr and Thay) which have strong economies and an abundance of wizards do not operate mercantile teleport networks. I suppose the answer is usually some euphemism about "national security" (centralized power and control and taxes by the state), considerably more difficult to enforce without rigid borders.
Still, not every nation is Cormyr or Thay. There must be established networks of teleporters-for-profit ... or there must be good reasons why they haven't become established.
Well, you make a good point. To be honest, I think it has to do with what Ed Greenwood said when he was approached many years ago about doing accessories which delved into economics. He said it was boring to most and that is why it was not done. I think that if there was enough interest, you would have seen it in the novels, accessories, etc. However, it doesn't mean it isn't there. It just isn't discussed in lore because people want the juicy stuff. That's why I am discussing it here. :)
Best regards as always, and thank you for your post! :)
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