| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gurgle Gobblespit |
Posted - 12 Oct 2015 : 05:30:47
I read that among the humans of the Realms, the word "Saer" is used (akin to real-world Sir).
I'm curious, did the word Saer originate from a specific human ethnic group? Was it Chondathan? I understand that Chondathan culture is very widespread, especially Chondathan (human) names as listed in 5e DMG section for choosing human names.
And I'm also curious which came first…. George RR Martin's use of "Ser" in his Game of Thrones novels, or Greenwood's use of Saer in the Realms? |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 14 Oct 2015 : 02:26:00
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Yes, several times.
Bury Elminster Deep, Elminster Mist Die, Swords of Dragonfire, Blackstaff, and others.
Ah, haven't read those ones yet. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 14 Oct 2015 : 02:22:19
See this thread too. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 13 Oct 2015 : 15:21:06
Yes, several times.
Bury Elminster Deep, Elminster Mist Die, Swords of Dragonfire, Blackstaff, and others. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2015 : 15:00:07
Has Saer ever been used in a Realms novel?? |
| Calmar |
Posted - 13 Oct 2015 : 13:39:31
In any case, it's not Greenwood stealing from Martin, or vice versa. Both borrow very closely from a real-world word. |
| Gurgle Gobblespit |
Posted - 13 Oct 2015 : 00:19:29
Thanks to all for the replies. And thanks Jeremy for that Dragon 407 reference. I just found I can buy a PDF copy of that issue from dndclassics.com
Issue 407 seems to focus on tons of Cormyr background material. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 12 Oct 2015 : 22:06:03
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
I'm curious, did the word Saer originate from a specific human ethnic group? Was it Chondathan? I understand that Chondathan culture is very widespread, especially Chondathan (human) names as listed in 5e DMG section for choosing human names.
Saer is "Sir" in Chondathan. See "Crowns and Mantles: The Ranks and Titles of Cormyr", by Brian Cortijo, in Dragon 407.
As that article states, most Cormyreans do speak Chondathan, so they'd readily understand the use of saer, as well as other words like Astrel (King), Tahar (Knight) and Arauna (Lady).
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
And I'm also curious which came first…. George RR Martin's use of "Ser" in his Game of Thrones novels, or Greenwood's use of Saer in the Realms?
I don't know when Martin started thinking up the stories and characters that became "Game of Thrones", but we know for a fact that the Realms dates back to the '60s, so I suspect Saer came first. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 12 Oct 2015 : 21:15:57
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Saerloon was also named after someone named Saer which is obviously supported by the Chondathan named, lets just hope that Loon does not translate literally from English.
Good points all. I believe, based on Saerlunan still being an acceptable way of saying "somebody from Saerloon" (FR Adventures pg 73), that Saerloon was/is Saerlun much like Daerlun -- the change in spelling could have followed the simplified pronunciation brought on by thousands of tourists and merchants in Saerloon's ports every day.
It's just my interpretation. I think the elitist old families identify as Saerlunan and curl their lips in disgust at all "those filthy foreigners with their simple minds and club-like tongues, unable to grasp even the obvious nuances in language."
It just feels properly Saerlunan, right?  |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 12 Oct 2015 : 21:03:20
Given that there is a settlement named Saerloon in Sembia which was i think primarily settled by people from the Vilhon Reach region (which I believe is where the Chondathan people originate), I'd say Chondathan is a good point of origin.
Saerloon was also named after someone named Saer which is obviously supported by the Chondathan named, lets just hope that Loon does not translate literally from English.
As for Saer and Ser, and Sir. It reminds me a lot of Caesar and Tsar and other derivatives that denote royalty or nobility across the old world, so it is entirely possible that it originated historically rather than with either Ed or George |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 12 Oct 2015 : 20:43:17
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
I read that among the humans of the Realms, the word "Saer" is used (akin to real-world Sir).
If you (or anyone else) are looking for a specific source on this: 3e campaign setting book, pg 82. I dunno if it's been mentioned in earlier sources.
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
I'm curious, did the word Saer originate from a specific human ethnic group? Was it Chondathan? I understand that Chondathan culture is very widespread, especially Chondathan (human) names as listed in 5e DMG section for choosing human names.
This might be a good question to ask Ed directly, unless another scribe knows that it's been answered already. I think Chondathan is a good guess.
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
And I'm also curious which came first…. George RR Martin's use of "Ser" in his Game of Thrones novels, or Greenwood's use of Saer in the Realms?
Ed would probably know this too, but... A Game of Thrones was published in 1996. The 3e FR hardcover was published in 2001. However, both sirs Greenwood and Martin have been writing since the 60s, so... |
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