| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 15 Aug 2014 : 14:18:40
Other than the Ed and Salvatore war stories there was little in the way of hard information on the upcoming ToD storyline.
In terms of the Realms in general and 5E, it was confirmed by WotC that there they have no immediate plans for a 5E FR sourcebook/campaign setting book and will just keep releasing novels and thematic products like ToD for the foreseeable future.
Don't hold your breath people.
-- George Krashos |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 05:42:53
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Maybe Wizards will let Ed write Volo's Guides for everywhere for a decade or two like he mentioned in that seminar. I'd take those over a campaign setting, provided we had enough of them to cover Faerun decently.
I don't think their current strategy/plan would allow for this.
But honestly, if this did happen? I would pre-order every single one of them and buy them sight-unseen. I'm completely serious. They wouldn't even have to bring back Volo. It could be one of Volo's descendants, just written in that style.
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| Eilserus |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 04:03:30
Posted response in wrong thread. My bad. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 03:49:55
Maybe Wizards will let Ed write Volo's Guides for everywhere for a decade or two like he mentioned in that seminar. I'd take those over a campaign setting, provided we had enough of them to cover Faerun decently. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 02:45:31
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
I disagree about too many chefs spoiling the soup. There's no reason that FR can't be like Star Wars. SW has so many different products (novels, animated series, video games, etc.) that take place in so many different eras, that I guarantee you there is something nearly every sci fi or fantasy fan likes. Most SW fans don't like everything in the SW universe, but that's not the point. Expanding the product gives millions of people at least something to enjoy, and they can always ignore the stuff they don't enjoy.
I want all of FR's current and past authors writing for the setting: Elaine, RAS, Ed, ESDB, Byers, Denning, Smedman, Niles, Athans, etc. They all have a different take on the Realms. They all prefer writing in different corners of the Realms. That's what we need! Even if they write in the same places, I love getting different takes on the area. We've had multiple authors use popular places like Waterdeep, Sembia, Cormyr, Thay, Neverwinter, and Rashemen. More material can't possibly be a bad thing.
Boba Fett and the Sarlacc.
The golden blob of the Crystal Star.
Skippy the Droid.
The Jedi Prince series.
The financial loan story in "The Third Law".
Tusken Raiders named Hoar.
Evil clone names. Luuke.
The SW Holiday Special.
The Clone Wars movie.
The unbeatable Sun Crusher.
Beldorion of the Ruby Eyes - a Jedi Hutt that goes Darkside.
The Ewok Adventure and the Caravan of Courage.
Mount Sorrow, the clinically depressed mountain whose tears cure all.
Yeah. Could've used a tiny bit of editing, I think.
quote:
and there were a lot of excellent 4e books. Surely we can agree on that.
I liked some, not all.
Erin Evans' series is top-notch. Same with Paul Kemp.
I liked some of the Greenwood novels during 4E, but not all.
Lisa Smedman's Gilded Rune was very good.
Salvatore is usually good.
Four of the six Sundering novels were good.
Like I said before, it's personal taste and preference. YMMV, of course.
|
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 02:29:49
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Editing is an essential process in writing anything. It's the difference between having a huge patchwork quilt of mediocrity (with a few diamonds buried within) versus having a tight, fully integrated rich tapestry (covered with diamonds).
They've done the volume approach. I'm done with kitchen sinks full of mismatched dishes.
For the future, I want amazing quality - not just volume. I want their editors to really discriminate, concentrate on pure Realms goodness, and work from a fairly well-unified vision.
I totally agree that there should be a unified vision of where they are taking the Realms. For example, if the Zhents are supposed to be resurgent in 5e, we can't have one author writing them as chumps while another writes them as Faerun's most dangerous crime syndicate.
However, I disagree with the novels. FR has a high quality of authors, and there were a lot of excellent 4e books. Surely we can agree on that. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 02:25:08
I disagree about too many chefs spoiling the soup. There's no reason that FR can't be like Star Wars. SW has so many different products (novels, animated series, video games, etc.) that take place in so many different eras, that I guarantee you there is something nearly every sci fi or fantasy fan likes. Most SW fans don't like everything in the SW universe, but that's not the point. Expanding the product gives millions of people at least something to enjoy, and they can always ignore the stuff they don't enjoy.
I want all of FR's current and past authors writing for the setting: Elaine, RAS, Ed, ESDB, Byers, Denning, Smedman, Niles, Athans, etc. They all have a different take on the Realms. They all prefer writing in different corners of the Realms. That's what we need! Even if they write in the same places, I love getting different takes on the area. We've had multiple authors use popular places like Waterdeep, Sembia, Cormyr, Thay, Neverwinter, and Rashemen. More material can't possibly be a bad thing. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 02:19:12
Editing is an essential process in writing anything. It's the difference between having a huge patchwork quilt of mediocrity (with a few diamonds buried within) versus having a tight, fully integrated rich tapestry (covered with diamonds).
They've done the volume approach. I'm done with kitchen sinks full of mismatched dishes.
For the future, I want amazing quality - not just volume. I want their editors to really discriminate, concentrate on pure Realms goodness, and work from a fairly well-unified vision.
|
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 01:56:24
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
One might just as easily say that too many chefs spoil the soup.
Of course you could. But then you wouldn’t be adding anything meaningful to the discussion.
Part of why the Realms were sold to TSR was so that it could grow; so that others could get their hands on it and do amazing things with it.
Granted we haven’t always got amazing things (this is about as far as we can take the "too many chefs" comment), but this doesn’t change the fact that the original idea for a Realms released to the world was one of a shared vision. Much of what’s great about the Realms hasn’t come from the likes of Ed Greenwood. Instead, it has come from Jeff Grubb, Steven Schend, Elaine Cunningham, R.A. Salvatore and a long list of others.
You don’t get that if you limit the number of people working on the Realms to a number equal to or less than the fingers of one hand. Likewise if you impose an ephemeral, moving target of a “vision” that suits the tiny number of people who enjoy talking about the Realms with strangers on the internet, and that’s limited in scope to what these people think the Realms should be.
People like deBie have already shown a capacity to work within the setting, and to use the tools given to them (like the Waterdeep Bible for the Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep series) to write entertaining novels.
Lets not forget that people like Brian Cortijo and George Krashos are the vision for the Realms, inasmuch as what they write for the parts of the setting they specialize in is, or nearly is, canon, and they both have prior writing credits in the Realms.
And these are just a few examples of the people who’ve done great work for the Realms and who ought to have first crack at it after the 5E FRCS hits the store shelves.
I know I won’t like everything they write, because I haven’t always liked their work in the past. But what I want isn’t as important as what’s important for the Realms and for its ability to grow and prosper side by side with the new edition of D&D.
I hope WotC finds some new people to work on the Realms as well. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 01:31:03
quote:
Any reason you would leave off Brian R. James and George Krashos from your list?
Personal preference.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Once the 5E FRCS is done, WotC would do well to outsource writing for Realms products to third parties like Vorpal Games, because Matt and Brian have prior experience working on the Realms and have recent experience producing their own product, and so are capable of getting things done on time, and freelance writers like Erik Scott DeBie, whose work on the Neverwinter Campaign Setting really shines, and George Krashos, who knows a hell of a lot about the Realms.
No thanks. Knowing the Realms doesn't always mean having the same, or similar, vision.
quote:
Piling lore on top of lore is great for the Realmslorephiles out there
Not always.
quote:
In order for the 5E Realms to prosper, there need to be many hands in the mix.
One might just as easily say that too many chefs spoil the soup.
|
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 20 Aug 2014 : 00:04:06
Once the 5E FRCS is done, WotC would do well to outsource writing for Realms products to third parties like Vorpal Games, because Matt and Brian have prior experience working on the Realms and have recent experience producing their own product, and so are capable of getting things done on time, and freelance writers like Erik Scott DeBie, whose work on the Neverwinter Campaign Setting really shines, and George Krashos, who knows a hell of a lot about the Realms.
I think the biggest challenge for any freelancer writing for the Realms is to write something that’s inline with what WotC is asking for, while also writing something that’s genuinely useful to a DM or a player.
Piling lore on top of lore is great for the Realmslorephiles out there, but it’s not great for DMs who just need a few NPC names, basic stats for same (class and level; one or two unique magic items or abilities) and some information about a ruin, dungeon or inn to get a game going with.
In order for the 5E Realms to prosper, there need to be many hands in the mix. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 22:45:17
For what its worth, if a situation similar to MWP's Dragonlance books arose, that would be great. And not every book had to be written by the original authors for the sourcebooks to be some of the best Dragonlance material ever produced, but having them around to keep their eyes on the projects and nudge things here or there definitely seemed to help. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 22:08:59
I would create a Realmslore Certification program. You can create content for the Forgotten Realms, but if you want it to be certified as canon, you have to go through a more stringent certification process. The products that are Realmslore Certified would have a seal on the cover.
quote:
Greenwood should be primary. But if they must outsource, go back to the really good creatives of the past Realms. Brian Cortijo, Jeff Grubb, Steven Schend, and Eric Boyd would be good. I'm really NOT interested in material by others, sorry.
Fair enough. No need to be sorry for having an opinion. Any reason you would leave off Brian R. James and George Krashos from your list? |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 20:18:19
IMO, far too much of the outsourced FR material near the end of 3E (and all of 4E) was just exceptionally boring and terribly generic.
Greenwood should be primary. But if they must outsource, go back to the really good creatives of the past Realms. Brian Cortijo, Jeff Grubb, Steven Schend, and Eric Boyd would be good. I'm really NOT interested in material by others, sorry.
|
| Aldrick |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 20:17:55
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I'd be cool with third parties doing it, but they'd have to have the chops to write Realms specific stuff and do a good job at it. Otherwise, it'd just be plain bad for the setting and dilute or muddy the waters.
I don't want weird stuff that breaks the immersion (Bill the paladin etc). That's just my thoughts.
I think that's why it would need a strong lore and continuity gatekeeper, someone who has the authority to oversee stuff and veto B.S. that has no place in the setting. With someone like that in place, I think it becomes safe, and in reality it may be the only way we get the amount of supplements that we want. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 19:35:23
I'd be cool with third parties doing it, but they'd have to have the chops to write Realms specific stuff and do a good job at it. Otherwise, it'd just be plain bad for the setting and dilute or muddy the waters.
I don't want weird stuff that breaks the immersion (Bill the paladin etc). That's just my thoughts. |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 19:24:14
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I would very much support giving third-party companies licenses to write Realms products.
Vorpal Games adventures and novels anyone? Brian R. James, Matt James, Ed Greenwood, Erik Scott de Bie and more?
If only we had a pool of Realms fans that could somehow influence WotC... hmm.....
I really think this might be the best future for the Realms, in all honesty. If WotC has a good and decent lore and continuity gatekeeper in place, it could work really well.
I can understand their wanting to keep the 5E FRCG in house, but it's hard for me to imagine that we're going to see the type of supplemental sourcebook material we all are going to want for the setting.
Personally, I want to see one or two Realms source books coming out each year. If two sourcebooks come out each year that will take us, what? Nine or ten years to reach an equal number of sourcebooks produced for 3E?
If third party designers are allowed to work in conjunction with WotC and set up Kickstarter campaigns to fund the creation of Realms material, then I believe we could establish a new golden age for the Realms as a campaign setting. By self-funding in this manner, we can guarantee that at least labor and production costs will be covered, provided the third party companies can manage themselves well. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 14:52:06
I would very much support giving third-party companies licenses to write Realms products.
Vorpal Games adventures and novels anyone? Brian R. James, Matt James, Ed Greenwood, Erik Scott de Bie and more?
If only we had a pool of Realms fans that could somehow influence WotC... hmm..... |
| Faraer |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 04:35:47
I think the design model of fifth-edition D&D -- design by a big team to meet the preferences of a huge body of playtesters -- is very much not what's wanted for the fifth-edition Realms, or pretty much any other world-building task. So much of the weakness of the last two versions stems precisely from overthought top-down group design -- both the heavy-handed changes-to-match-rules and the dubious key 'Life in Faerûn' chapter of the 2001 setting and the out-of-sympathy reconceptualization of the 2008 one. That kind of committee design almost always feels thin, artificial, manufactured, exactly what the original Realms was not. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 02:16:17
In the mean time, I'm hoping they have some plan for 3rd party support ready soon, especially since Wolfgang Baur worked on Tyranny of Dragons. I could wait a bit longer to see 5th Edition Realms treatment if I had some "official" 5th Edition stats for Gearforged, Kobolds, Minotaurs, Roachlings, and Ravenfolk to use as PCs while we explore Midgard for a while.
It does make me hesitant to start a game using just the Tyranny of Dragons adventures. I already noticed this while running Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle for some friends, but I want to know what's just off the map, in case they go there instead of anywhere detailed in the adventure. I know I have the imagination to make it up, but I also know that I like for all of my previous campaigns to have happened in the same world, and that gets trickier when I have to fill in the gaps myself, especially if I really like what they did with a region better than what I made up.
I do think we may be overestimating how many resources they have to produce D&D products. The team at WOTC seems pretty thin these days, and even if they are willing to use outside studios and freelancers, a major thing like the core campaign setting book is something you want a lot of "in house" eyes on. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 19 Aug 2014 : 01:24:33
Yup, I'm all for them publishing lots of novels. Novels just aren't good for the kind of overreaching geographic, political, demographic, historical, cosmological lore I love to read about. But I've bought a few of them too. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 23:50:35
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I'm going into town Tuesday to snag Hoard of the Dragon Queen. Curious what kind of a Realms adventure line we're going to have in the meantime.
Idk, ToD seems a very mainstream adventure of the ''A great evil is destroying stuff, ''heroes'' are needed to stop it'' kind. But then, I don't use/read modules, so I don't know if that is the standard model for them. I may very well be wrong about ToD, tho. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 23:47:06
quote:
Originally posted by jornan
On a side note to all the Drizzt/novel haters. If it wasn't for Drizzt the FR would most likely have died years ago and quite possibly WotC wouldn't have even taken interest in the sinking ship that was TSR.
I don't think that anyone is a novel ''hater'' here, it's just that having only novels published (alongside with some adventure) isn't exactly what one expects from a D&D setting... |
| jornan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 23:14:13
I'm worried to say the least, BUT if this means that WotC is actually spending this time to roll out 5e realms RIGHT while restructuring things then I think it will be worth the wait.
There does seem to be a discrepancy from how the Sundering was rolled out and what it promised to what is being delivered and that is incredibly disappointing. At this point I think a little transparency and honesty would go a long way in winning back the confidence of long time fans. If the wait is worth it, then great. But if we wait and nothing happens the fans will leave.
On a side note to all the Drizzt/novel haters. If it wasn't for Drizzt the FR would most likely have died years ago and quite possibly WotC wouldn't have even taken interest in the sinking ship that was TSR. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 04:07:11
I'm going into town Tuesday to snag Hoard of the Dragon Queen. Curious what kind of a Realms adventure line we're going to have in the meantime. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 03:53:22
Same, but I don't see much to look forward for in the next 2 years or so... |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 03:43:15
I've waited years for the 4E era to pass, I can certainly wait a bit longer. A relief to know it's eventually coming. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 03:22:56
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Keep your eyes peeled.
Why? WotC just said that they will only put out adventures and novels in the near future and that an eventual FRCG is a long way down the road. That has basically killed my enthusiasm, at least until they actually announce the 5e FR. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 18 Aug 2014 : 03:03:27
Keep your eyes peeled. |
| Plaguescarred |
Posted - 16 Aug 2014 : 23:45:19
Glad to see Mike Mearls came down to clarify things. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 16 Aug 2014 : 21:17:23
I don't mind them taking their time (particularly if it means good products). I'm not in a hurry, but I think going away from sourcebook format (again) would be a major mistake, and not just because of personal preference.
The statement from Mearls and him saying the thing was taken out of context makes me a bit happier for the Realms again. |
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