| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 04:09:09
Just a quick note. I just saw on Mr . Salvatore's Facebook page that Rise of the King release date has been pushed back until Sept 30th. No exact reason given, except it wasn't Bob's doing. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 16:43:55
The only case that I can recall of a 100% demon not being evil anymore is Fall-from-grace from the Planescape Torment PC game (who was Lawful Neutral), but I'm not sure how cannon the game is considered to be. |
| Crystyn |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 16:12:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Are demons and devils really impossible to change?
I think it's kind of strange that Planetars and Devas can fall but Demons and Devils can't "ascend".
IIRC, the Planescape material had some fiends that had gone good.
Lorcan in the Brimstone Angels is kinda moving into a grey area as well, he is a cambion though (even though his mother is the devil). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 14:57:42
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Are demons and devils really impossible to change?
I think it's kind of strange that Planetars and Devas can fall but Demons and Devils can't "ascend".
IIRC, the Planescape material had some fiends that had gone good. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 13:21:51
Well, AFAIK outsiders are basically concepts made flesh. An ascended demon sounds like its whole nature was changed, like a fallen deva.
In the cases where outsiders changed, were the changes out of actual choice, or induced by other factors (like deities/insert powerful being here altering their nature or corrupting them)? If the former, then I am wrong about innate evil.
Anyway, as I said, I don't particularly like this concept. It is pretty much a device that makes you say ''hey I can kill that human-like intelligent being without having moral consequences'', which is easily doable anyway in any campaign, but that limits character development and plot hooks for those races, if put in the published setting (and I'm not simply talking about Drizzt-like stories here). |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 31 May 2014 : 12:43:59
Are demons and devils really impossible to change?
I think it's kind of strange that Planetars and Devas can fall but Demons and Devils can't "ascend". |
| Irennan |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 09:28:02
quote:
Originally posted by Regcod
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Personally, I don't think that brinwashing can lead to 'innate evul', as there is always a possibility (it is hard -sure- but possible) to open a brainwashed, indoctrinated person's mind, while innate evil means that no change is possible.
I don't want to see Obould go, but -needless to say- I much prefer your idea to 'unredeemably, 100%, evil, one note mooks'.
So you consider an 'innate evil' unable to be redeemed??? ;)
Why not? It's really hard also in this case but on my vision of the world, all can happen. ;)
What I meant for innate evil is what demons or devils are, impossible to change. It's not like drow/human/orc/..., who have choice; it's not the same as being prone to evil, in which case it is still avoidable. In the demon case, whatever you do, it won't change (it's basically a concept of evil incarnate). Maybe I used the wrong word, but that's what I was talking about.
This is a concept that I strongly dislike when applied to mortal races, because it completely removes choice on their side and turns them into mere monsters to throw at players, w/o any depth at all (something that people could easily do anyway in their campaign, but that lessen story opportunities in the setting).
Apparently orcs are going to be 'innately evil' in 5e, as there's a scene in the latest Drizzt book that hints at that (the one where Mielikki says something along the lines of 'all goblinkin are evil and nothing is going to change it'). |
| Regcod |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 08:12:57
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Personally, I don't think that brinwashing can lead to 'innate evul', as there is always a possibility (it is hard -sure- but possible) to open a brainwashed, indoctrinated person's mind, while innate evil means that no change is possible.
I don't want to see Obould go, but -needless to say- I much prefer your idea to 'unredeemably, 100%, evil, one note mooks'.
So you consider an 'innate evil' unable to be redeemed??? ;)
Why not? It's really hard also in this case but on my vision of the world, all can happen. ;) |
| Irennan |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 04:08:04
Personally, I don't think that brinwashing can lead to 'innate evul', as there is always a possibility (it is hard -sure- but possible) to open a brainwashed, indoctrinated person's mind, while innate evil means that no change is possible.
I don't want to see Obould go, but -needless to say- I much prefer your idea to 'unredeemably, 100%, evil, one note mooks'. |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 03:54:00
I'm looking for ways to ease into that innate evul. My idea would require several years worth of oppression and mental conditioning to reach that, I think. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 03:50:04
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
It sounds less sloppy than a retcon. A regime built on terror, cemented by brainwashing--actual, psychological brainwashing--works just as well when you've got far wilder elements about the setting.
But that situation would mean that an orc taken out of such context would still be able to choose his/her path (like a drow), depth that 5e is going to take away with its lame ''innate ebil-ness'', as far as I understand. |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 03:23:27
It sounds less sloppy than a retcon. A regime built on terror, cemented by brainwashing--actual, psychological brainwashing--works just as well when you've got far wilder elements about the setting. Obould did have quite a few opponents within the orc tribes in The Orc King. There could be some deep-seated hatred toward the treaty, rooted in the orc psyche. That could be something worth exploring, in tandem with the executions and brainwashing.
I really did like Obould, though. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 00:29:45
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
^I thought 5E was going to turn the orcs back into one-note mooks.
Yeah, but killing a lot of 'different' orcs doesn't prevent other orcs from choosing a different path than ''me smash stuff''. The only way to do that is a retcon.
EDIT: But yes, I guess they will get rid of the Many Arrows Orcs in some way, which is yet another waste. |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 30 May 2014 : 00:25:06
^I thought 5E was going to turn the orcs back into one-note mooks. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 29 May 2014 : 20:10:34
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
I've been thinking about the inevitable fate of the orcs to become the standard evil race. The new orc king could round up all the orcs that supported Obould's Many-Arrows and have them executed.
How is that supposed to make orcs innately evil? It's not like some greenskins are and some others aren't, so that executing the latter would prevent the remaining orcs from not merely being savage brutes. if a race is not innately evil, then it comes down to choice...
Or have I misunderstood you?  |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 29 May 2014 : 18:41:27
I've been thinking about the inevitable fate of the orcs to become the standard evil race. The new orc king could round up all the orcs that supported Obould's Many-Arrows and have them executed. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 28 May 2014 : 17:25:06
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I wouldn't call twice per year frequent.
Haha! Oh man, I forgot how spoiled a person could get reading The Realms. 
*shudders at the memory of the wait between A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons*
Well, that was only marginally longer than the wait between A Storm of Swords and A Feast For Crows, that's when George lost a as a reader. Which in hindsight is good for me, now I can soon again be surprised by the TV series |
| yurilowell |
Posted - 27 May 2014 : 21:56:52
quote:
Originally posted by Neo2151
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I wouldn't call twice per year frequent.
Haha! Oh man, I forgot how spoiled a person could get reading The Realms.
*shudders at the memory of the wait between A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons*
Haha yes so true, could not agree more. I was slightly disappointed for about 3 seconds once I heard that Rise of the King was being pushed back a couple of months. Then, like always, memories of the FIVE year gap between Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons always remind me that 2 months is really nothing at all. |
| Neo2151 |
Posted - 25 May 2014 : 02:02:27
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I wouldn't call twice per year frequent.
Haha! Oh man, I forgot how spoiled a person could get reading The Realms.
*shudders at the memory of the wait between A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons* |
| Caolin |
Posted - 23 May 2014 : 07:08:34
The longer WoTC goes with this reduced novel output, the more other I look to find a replacement for those wholes in my reading regimen. I'm not just sitting on my hands waiting for them to come back. I hope Mrs. Evans and the other Realms authors who frequent these boards relay that message back to WoTC. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 22 May 2014 : 09:33:53
I concure here, Farideh has become one of my favorite characters. The Adversary was my introduction to her but once Im finished with the novel I'm on now I'll be running through the Brimstone Angels series. |
| Crystyn |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 05:50:45
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Fire in the Blood is with the proofreader. :) Thanks for asking.
[...]
And for the record, I have books contracted through 2016. You're stuck with me for a while yet.
Awesome, can't wait to see Farideh continue to grow. |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 01:47:48
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
That's good to know. I'd rather not have to wait longer to read more of Farideh. Hope the writing is going well.
Fire in the Blood is with the proofreader. :) Thanks for asking.
I'd also point out that typically you don't get to see what's coming up until the catalogs come out--and they haven't. To my knowledge, WotC hasn't released any information about what's coming out in 2015, but that doesn't mean nothing's coming out. (I doubt very much that come July you'll discover that the next year holds a book a month, but I also know that there are things in the works that haven't been announced).
And for the record, I have books contracted through 2016. You're stuck with me for a while yet. |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 00:57:07
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Fire in the Blood will still come out on October 14th (two weeks after Rise of the King).
I can't tell you why they moved Rise of the King, though.
That's good to know. I'd rather not have to wait longer to read more of Farideh. Hope the writing is going well. |
| Crystyn |
Posted - 21 May 2014 : 00:44:26
quote:
Originally posted by charger_ss24
From what I understand from posts on here is that Ed, Bob and Erin are the only authors actively writing Realms novels under WotC.
Why do I get the feeling that the Realms' end is near? Three authors can't shoulder the load.
Afaik RAS signed a 6 book contract after the last Neverwinter |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 23:35:59
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Looks more like WotC has no new novels in line for publication this year besides The Herald, Rise of the King and Fire in the Blood, so they decided to space them out a bit more. I wonder if Fire in the Blood won't be pushed back to November/December.
Fire in the Blood will still come out on October 14th (two weeks after Rise of the King).
I can't tell you why they moved Rise of the King, though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 21:17:21
quote:
Originally posted by charger_ss24
From what I understand from posts on here is that Ed, Bob and Erin are the only authors actively writing Realms novels under WotC.
Why do I get the feeling that the Realms' end is near? Three authors can't shoulder the load.
Just because there are three authors active right now doesn't mean they're not going to bring in more, later... I'd expect that once the 5E FR Campaign book is announced, we'll see some more fiction coming. |
| charger_ss24 |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 20:31:01
From what I understand from posts on here is that Ed, Bob and Erin are the only authors actively writing Realms novels under WotC.
Why do I get the feeling that the Realms' end is near? Three authors can't shoulder the load. |
| Tanthalas |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 18:50:39
I wouldn't call twice per year frequent.
Looks more like WotC has no new novels in line for publication this year besides The Herald, Rise of the King and Fire in the Blood, so they decided to space them out a bit more. I wonder if Fire in the Blood won't be pushed back to November/December.
Probably also gives them more room for the new 5E game books.
Regardless, the lack of FR novels is pretty frustrating considering the various plotlines that have been left hanging pre-Sundering. |
| Crystyn |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 15:10:25
It's not necessarily a bad decision, frequent releases of the same saga is great for fans but others might get burned out. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 20 May 2014 : 11:59:58
Oh great another delay. As it is there are only a few FR books being published nowadays. |
