| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Therise |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 17:24:52
I just finished Salvatore's new book, the Companions.
It was so incredibly good, I have very few words. It was everything that a heroic fantasy novel should be.
For a long time now, I've been really sad about what happened and completely dubious about the future of the Realms. I wasn't sure that it could be "fixed" in any significant way.
But after reading this book, I can honestly say that I have renewed hope for the Realms. And I think I understand what the current design team is doing. They can't change the past, and for many reasons it wouldn't make sense to do so. But they can rebuild what was lost, brick by brick. It's slow work, but worth it.
So that's what they're doing. And it's really, really good.
That's all. 
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 22 Sep 2013 : 13:23:34
Best way to do that is to avoid these sort of topics. Certain people have shall we say, very passionate views about 4e. |
| Drustan Dwnhaedan |
Posted - 21 Sep 2013 : 07:27:49
After seeing this thread, my faith in the Realm's has, while not completely restored, been raised to a height it hasn't been at for a long time. I also have learned how not to write a post on a forum (if you've read all the other posts on this thread, you know what I'm referring to). While I may get upset with some of the things that happened in the Realms, or disagree with other scribes' point of view, I would never (deliberately) post anything to hurt the feelings of my fellow fans. (In spite of my generally nonsensical nature, I do understand what it's like to have one's feelings hurt, and try my best to avoid causing that pain to others.) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 22:55:04
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Can anyone provide any info on Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle? I am REALLY curious about that one.
Was there a map of any sort?
This is the one thing I would really have loved to get my hands on.
I just got my hands on a copy the other day; I had to rely on eBay. 
I've not had a lot of time to go thru it, but for the most part, it looks pretty good to me. I would have been happier with a hardcover, as opposed to the softcover, but it's a good, thick book, and a significant chunk of it is the adventure itself. There is also a second on Daggerford itself, and something of a primer on the D&D Next rules -- it's supposed to be enough to let someone make a character and play the adventure, all in one book.
That said, I do have a couple of quibbles with stuff I saw in the book. There are illustrations that look like Post-It Notes, with scribbled comments on the content on that page -- one of which refers to the "yo mama" jokes that are described in the text as being anachronistic! 
And while some of the artwork is new, some isn't. Some of it is similar to the concept artwork we've already seen (with the halflings with enormous heads, spindly legs, and MacFarlane-esque ankles), some of it is good but not great, and some of it is recycled 1E art! Some is from the 1E monster books, and I recognized the artwork of Emirikol the chaotic from my 1E DMG.
So overall, I like what I've seen -- but I don't like the way parts of it are treated like a joke. That's not what I expect from FR products. |
| thenightgaunt |
Posted - 19 Sep 2013 : 21:02:24
quote:
Originally posted by Renin
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
However, I don't see the Realms truly fixable. The time gap has fragmented the Realms. They're continuing to move forward which to me means they are not going back. I don't believe they can properly support 1360/1370 era play while producing material for 1484 play.. in addition to 1479. And they will NEVER admit they can't and won't be supporting all eras of play equally, because they did a wonderful job alienating their player base with 4e and can't do that this time around.
Have they said they would put out new material for the 1370 era? I don't believe I've seen that yet.
As it is, I expect to NOT see anything from that time. Then again, there's an entire 'new' world to explore in a classic manner, so hey, maybe I'll actually buy some new source material again.
I didn't really expect them to completely retcon the Spellplague but I'm still feeling a bit petulant about it. I liked the 1370's and hated the ultimatum that was 4th edition. But if it's done well they'll probably get my attention.
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Wow Therise, if you can be convinced that retaining some 4e elements is okay then there is hope for the Realms yet.  I think I can speak for all of us, we will expect a full report upon your return. Cheers and thanks for the quick blurb from GenCon.
Ok you've sold me on this as well, somewhat. I suppose I'll need to give this series a shot. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 17:09:31
Can anyone provide any info on Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle? I am REALLY curious about that one.
Was there a map of any sort?
This is the one thing I would really have loved to get my hands on. |
| Therise |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 16:55:35
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Any hint about what the other three Sundering adventure modules are about?
So far I know there will be 5 of them, we know about Murder in Baldar's Gate and the next one is Return of the Crystal Shard, but beyond that we know nothing about the last three. Anything on those?
I did ask about Legacy of the Crystal Shard, from someone who would know, and all I could really squeeze out of them was that it's going to be "large, about a 100 page book" and they sported an impish grin. Nothing really spoilery, I know, but it was sorta funny.
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| Gyor |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 16:40:01
Any hint about what the other three Sundering adventure modules are about?
So far I know there will be 5 of them, we know about Murder in Baldar's Gate and the next one is Return of the Crystal Shard, but beyond that we know nothing about the last three. Anything on those? |
| Therise |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 16:22:17
I'm seriously trying to think of things I can add as "reveals" that people may not know yet.
The main panel was wonderful - the authors really talked a lot about the process of collaboration and how ideas took shape. It's definitely mapped and "done" for the first wave of things coming out, and Salvatore already has plot points figured out for his next novels that will take off from where "The Companions" left off. The other authors as well. These are not just one-shot books in a series for this Sundering event, they're the beginning. Does this help?
I will say that I truly wish some of the materials hadn't been "exclusive" to GenCon, like Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle. This is a mini-campaign starting in Daggerford and it's just as gorgeous (and has D&D quick play rules inside too!) as the larger Murder in Baldur's Gate campaign set. I seriously wish people could buy it commercially. I completely don't understand the marketing of making campaign content "exclusive" to one venue, I will say that.
I didn't make it to a couple Realmsy things, like the Candlekeep seminar and the Spin-a-yarn. Maybe people who did can say something about those in more detail?
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| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 15:58:10
I can think of dozens of things... anything would have been better then nothing. They are doing the "we know what our kewl plans are, just stick around and you'll see..." thing again, and the last time they did that, most of us were disappointed.
Why use that same approach? If am feeling that "Here they go again..." thing, I am sure others are thinking the same, and just walking (running?) further away from the Realms. Last year was a great lead-in, and should have been as tenuous as it was, but right now, it looks like they've been sitting on their laurels since last year (which I know they haven't, but a majority of the RPG gamers out there don't).
For example, bring everyone into a room awaiting a seminar... and then just simply turn the lights out. On a huge screen, some sort of amazing video - a (quality) anime showing worlds being torn apart, and heroes rushing in to 'save the day' (child under a falling wall, woman clutching her baby, a dark elf watching in horror as a crack in the earth swallows dozens of people, a bearded wizard raising his staff in defiance, as a massive wave comes crashing down on a seaside town, etc...) - THAT is what this thing needs. Show heroes (PCs) striving to "save the day" against insurmountable odds, and then, just as it looks like things are calming down, have them all look up into the sky... their faces dropping... {end video}. At that point, you have an entire audience going to their feet and applauding. They'll be talking about nothing else for the rest of the con ("Have you seen the D&D video? DAMN!")
No-one at WotC has an ounce of advertising savvy as far as I'm concerned - they can't keep letting these opportunities to generate buzz slip through there fingers. When you don't hype something, people just forget about it. |
| Therise |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 15:55:00
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
That's obviously not the same as nuking everything, again, which is what I was responding to. I have absolutely no interest in going round and round with you on this subject again. I've avoided virtually every thread you have started or posted in for a reason. However, after sitting through another seminar that has driven home the point that the vast majority of the problems inflicted upon the Realms are the fault of the company that owns it and not so much the people forced to make the "awesome new ideas" work, I get a little tired of the constant negativity. Yes, it is quite clever to point out that apparently resetting things would be too easy. Except, it's neither clever nor accurate. You and I had a considerable argument about this quite some time ago. The idea is not new. That the idea has been utterly rejected is also not new. Would it be easy? I dare say it would be the easiest path to choose. I also, personally, believe it is the worst possible path short of shuttering the Realms for reasons I have discussed at length.
They are (at least claiming to) undo much of what was done. They aren't erasing what happened, but they are trying to move things back to the way they were. The folks who dislike 4E have won. Is it a perfect victory where they get everything they want, no it's not, but it is a victory. You got the folks that interact with the public to admit that mistakes were made and that they are trying to fix them. That's is the best victory anyone had any realistic hope of getting. I wish some of them would catch on to that fact and quit being such sore winners.
Therise, sorry if this is cluttering your thread and congrats on your new found faith in the Realms going forward.
It's true, I have certainly adjusted my perspective to be positive and hopeful about the upcoming Realms. I've had the opportunity to read Salvatore's book and experience some of the new material at GenCon. Experience is key. But you have to realize that many people don't have that - at least not yet. So for many, it's still on the level of asking people for faith. I really DO hope people get the chance to try out the new material like I did, because it *feels* like the Realms again.
But honestly, if you're wanting to see less negativity in forums, you need to understand that this is going to take some TIME as people very gradually are exposed to the new material. Furthermore, it's possible that not everyone will like it and have their perspectives change dramatically as I did. Instead of berating people and acting snarky, which will very likely push people away from trying out and experiencing the new material (which is very good indeed), maybe give it a rest and let time take its course. It's just not helpful at all to post things like what you did, particularly because from many peoples' perspectives all they can see right now is that it's another massive RSE on the horizon.
So... how about less of the "pushing people away" and more talk about what you actually enjoy and like in the new material?
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 15:42:06
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Since WotC didn't make a splash at this year's Gencon, my 'faith' in them is slipping once again. Ask any fallen empire what idleness leads to...
I can see why they weren't there. What could they do, other than say "Stay tuned for all the exciting stuff we'll be announcing next year!"? |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:49:22
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Since WotC didn't make a splash at this year's Gencon, my 'faith' in them is slipping once again. Ask any fallen empire what idleness leads to...
I'm going to see this glass as half full.....for a bit longer and assume no splash at GenCon does not mean WotC is idle.
I think they are very busy......it's what they could be busy at that scares me
truthfully my biggest concern is for the novel line....say the sundering novel are very well received and it's time to strike while the irons hot.......as far as I can tell there are no works besides RA's in the pipe line post-sundering....that's worrisome.
(almost as worrisome as my sudden usage of to many ....... ) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:44:52
Since WotC didn't make a splash at this year's Gencon, my 'faith' in them is slipping once again. Ask any fallen empire what idleness leads to... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 13:30:01
As much as I dislike the idea of yet another RSE, I'm in favor of using the Sundering for the upcoming transition.
What they're going to be doing is pretty ambitious: they're not totally scrapping the events of the 4E era, but they're trying to go forward from there but still return the Realms to the feel it had back in the 1E/2E era. They're going to be changing geography again, partially restoring the Realms to the way it was. I don't see any way to do that without a big RSE.
And keep in mind, they've revamped the setting before without an RSE to explain changes -- that was 3E, when we were told "Oh, yeah, things have always been this way, but no one knew about it! Kindly ignore the fact that in some of these things weren't possible before, or all the lore that explicitly stated things weren't this way before..."
I'd rather have an RSE that explains changes in-setting, as opposed to changes with no explanation. I'm not a fan of RSEs, but I am a fan of maintaining continuity. |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 06:15:31
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Or it could be that they don't feel like invalidating the work of the last 5 years or so and repeating the mistakes (if one feels inclined to call the events that started a few years ago a mistake) of the past all over again. You don't fix something that's broken by breaking it again.
Well then, I guess it's a super good thing that they aren't having another massive RSE cataclysm this time around. 
Oh wait... the Sundering of worlds thing...
That's obviously not the same as nuking everything, again, which is what I was responding to. I have absolutely no interest in going round and round with you on this subject again. I've avoided virtually every thread you have started or posted in for a reason. However, after sitting through another seminar that has driven home the point that the vast majority of the problems inflicted upon the Realms are the fault of the company that owns it and not so much the people forced to make the "awesome new ideas" work, I get a little tired of the constant negativity. Yes, it is quite clever to point out that apparently resetting things would be too easy. Except, it's neither clever nor accurate. You and I had a considerable argument about this quite some time ago. The idea is not new. That the idea has been utterly rejected is also not new. Would it be easy? I dare say it would be the easiest path to choose. I also, personally, believe it is the worst possible path short of shuttering the Realms for reasons I have discussed at length.
They are (at least claiming to) undo much of what was done. They aren't erasing what happened, but they are trying to move things back to the way they were. The folks who dislike 4E have won. Is it a perfect victory where they get everything they want, no it's not, but it is a victory. You got the folks that interact with the public to admit that mistakes were made and that they are trying to fix them. That's is the best victory anyone had any realistic hope of getting. I wish some of them would catch on to that fact and quit being such sore winners.
Therise, sorry if this is cluttering your thread and congrats on your new found faith in the Realms going forward. |
| Therise |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 05:58:11
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Or it could be that they don't feel like invalidating the work of the last 5 years or so and repeating the mistakes (if one feels inclined to call the events that started a few years ago a mistake) of the past all over again. You don't fix something that's broken by breaking it again.
Well then, I guess it's a super good thing that they aren't having another massive RSE cataclysm this time around.
Oh wait... the Sundering of worlds thing...
|
| Tyrant |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 03:45:29
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
But after reading this book, I can honestly say that I have renewed hope for the Realms. And I think I understand what the current design team is doing. They can't change the past, and for many reasons it wouldn't make sense to do so. But they can rebuild what was lost, brick by brick. It's slow work, but worth it.
So that's what they're doing. And it's really, really good.
That's all.
This I don't understand. They sure as heck can blot away the past easily. In fact, it happened to the Realms already with the Elven High Magic that changed the landscape of Faerun. As detailed in Grand History, the magic "reached back and forth through the mists of time". Implying a lot of alternate-reality and alternate-timeline sort of crap you see a lot in the comic books. Just shove 4E Realms as an "alternate future" and go back to 1385 and change events to something else.
But...I guess that's just too easy to do apparently.
Or it could be that they don't feel like invalidating the work of the last 5 years or so and repeating the mistakes (if one feels inclined to call the events that started a few years ago a mistake) of the past all over again. You don't fix something that's broken by breaking it again.
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| Razz |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 01:53:24
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
But after reading this book, I can honestly say that I have renewed hope for the Realms. And I think I understand what the current design team is doing. They can't change the past, and for many reasons it wouldn't make sense to do so. But they can rebuild what was lost, brick by brick. It's slow work, but worth it.
So that's what they're doing. And it's really, really good.
That's all.
This I don't understand. They sure as heck can blot away the past easily. In fact, it happened to the Realms already with the Elven High Magic that changed the landscape of Faerun. As detailed in Grand History, the magic "reached back and forth through the mists of time". Implying a lot of alternate-reality and alternate-timeline sort of crap you see a lot in the comic books. Just shove 4E Realms as an "alternate future" and go back to 1385 and change events to something else.
But...I guess that's just too easy to do apparently. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 14:30:59
I have not regained my faith in the Realms because I never lost it in the first place. I understand this is mostly the sentiment of those who dislike the changes brought by the Spellplague, but for whatever it’s worth, I’m not one of them. I have learned to take in what’s good and just ignore what’s bad. Though until now I’m still wondering as to the reason (that is, if there is any at all) behind the (random, illogical) disappearance of Halruaa. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 01:25:25
Beyond Ed who is on the FR design team and are they already designing FR 5e bpoks? |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 00:10:22
Wow Therise, if you can be convinced that retaining some 4e elements is okay then there is hope for the Realms yet. I think I can speak for all of us, we will expect a full report upon your return. Cheers and thanks for the quick blurb from GenCon. |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 00:01:57
Great to hear. |
| Therise |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 18:53:31
Okay, I just have to break back in here. @SirUrza, I definitely felt as you do (re: the Realms being unfixable), and I was truly outspoken against "little revisions" and "toning down the 4E elements"... perhaps one of the most outspoken opponents of retaining 4E Realms history for 5E Realms.
But being here at GenCon, attending this and that, playing in the new launch events for Baldur's Gate, I can tell you that to have faith in this new design team (as they work with Ed), I personally have not been disappointed. On the contrary, the new materials and events have dramatically changed my mind. We will not get rid of what happened in 4E, that's true. But all of those designers are gone, and an entirely new team - with Ed - has been really working hard to bring the true spirit of the Realms back in 5E.
There are lore ties to the original 1E and the original Baldur's Gate computer games. It's all been extremely well thought out and planned. The quirky humor is back, the rich attention to lore is back, and this design team has completely re-earned my trust. Playing some of the encounters/events, it truly felt like the Realms again. And as much as I loathed 4E Realms, I think that's saying a lot.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, though. But I will say, try to get ahold of the new materials and play through them if you can. You may be surprised in a good way.
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| Renin |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 18:50:54
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
However, I don't see the Realms truly fixable. The time gap has fragmented the Realms. They're continuing to move forward which to me means they are not going back. I don't believe they can properly support 1360/1370 era play while producing material for 1484 play.. in addition to 1479. And they will NEVER admit they can't and won't be supporting all eras of play equally, because they did a wonderful job alienating their player base with 4e and can't do that this time around.
Have they said they would put out new material for the 1370 era? I don't believe I've seen that yet.
As it is, I expect to NOT see anything from that time. Then again, there's an entire 'new' world to explore in a classic manner, so hey, maybe I'll actually buy some new source material again. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 18:40:20
I greatly enjoyed The Companions, will be reading the rest of the Sundering (and the back catalog of the characters in the Sundering books.)
However, I don't see the Realms truly fixable. The time gap has fragmented the Realms. They're continuing to move forward which to me means they are not going back. I don't believe they can properly support 1360/1370 era play while producing material for 1484 play.. in addition to 1479. And they will NEVER admit they can't and won't be supporting all eras of play equally, because they did a wonderful job alienating their player base with 4e and can't do that this time around.
And if I see Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate jammed down our throats in NEXT because those computer games were pretty popular 10+ years ago (ignoring the fact that they're irrelevant today,) I'll not give them a single penny. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 10:17:04
Finished. I must say that I am pleased with the story for the most part. Although I stopped reading Drizzt novels a few years ago (just got tired of him tbh) I just may start reading RAS new stuff...provided WotC doesn't tick me off again. All in all a great read. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 19:26:56
Now reading the Companions, here's to a pleasant surprise!
Prologue done...did NOT see that coming! |
| Veritas |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 22:39:10
As far as I'm concerned, on my FR maps, I think "obviously the blue part... is the land." |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 18:11:56
Or a Jester! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 17:01:15
Right - I stopped work on my new, canonical FR maps. The last one of those I posted was the expanded (WIP) of 'The North'. I should at least finish the Western side of that map - it was almost complete.
I was doing that with the hopes that they would be doing a reboot to the earlier (1e/2e) iteration of The Realms, which we will NOT be getting. What I think we will be getting is something that harkens back to the 'glory days' of FR, but adds some of the better parts of 4eFR as well (and perhaps even a few new things to boot).
As great as 1e/2e/3e FR was, it wasn't perfect - there was quite a bit of redundancy (especially regarding Middle-Eastern type cultures), and a large dose of derivativeness in places (Mulhorand and Maztica, etc). This is their golden opportunity to fix all that - to finally give us a 'perfect Realms', as it were. You don't get too many second chances in life, and this is their's. With Ed steering the new direction, I have the utmost confidence in 5e.
EDIT:
Oh, and thanks for the Crown. 
I do what I do because I want people to see the Realms as I see them - to see the majestic beauty and grandeur of Ed's world. I'm not really 'the king', merely his herald. |
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