| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 04:29:12
It's always been interesting to me that the Realms feels so post-apocalyptic. Obviously centuries afterwards, when things have stabilized, but it just seems like so many places in the Realms are the remnants of militaristic and magical empires. It makes the modern (1300s) dominance of mercantile city-states seem like a transitory stage in history. |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| coach |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 06:21:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by coach
and i also second Markus in that, i never got a post-apocalyptic sense until 4e
FR canon
WotC FR product line
the 4e ruleset
Dragon mag
Dungeon mag
all of it got NUKED lol
How did the 4e rules-set pro0mote a sense of the post-apocalypse for you?
that is the one item on that list that is FIXING to be post-apocalyptic. it failed so wotc is nuking it for 5e |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 01:40:53
quote:
Originally posted by coach
and i also second Markus in that, i never got a post-apocalyptic sense until 4e
FR canon
WotC FR product line
the 4e ruleset
Dragon mag
Dungeon mag
all of it got NUKED lol
How did the 4e rules-set pro0mote a sense of the post-apocalypse for you? |
| coach |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 01:05:37
and i also second Markus in that, i never got a post-apocalyptic sense until 4e
FR canon
WotC FR product line
the 4e ruleset
Dragon mag
Dungeon mag
all of it got NUKED lol |
| coach |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 01:01:34
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I would have liked to have seen one real, full blown Rage of the Dragons. The one that occurred in 1,374 DR, we got a trilogy, two short story collections, and a semi-related sourcebook, but it felt too watered down. A Rage having taken place in the past, it would've been kind of awesome to have gotten a real in-depth view of it, other than "In XYZ Year, a Dragon Rage took place". I mean total, wholesale destruction- tens of thousands of lives lost, entire civilizations destroyed, the planet itself hurt, scarred and changed...
i second that
if they were gonna destroy everything, wish WotC wouldv'e done this instead of the disastrous spellplague story |
| Dennis |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 08:14:56
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I am 50-50 on them. I like the concept, but at the same time, I don't like that Aboleth have become more Far Realmsy Aberration than Psionic Underdark Aberration, nor do I like the implications that their ascendancy was supposedly supposed to have on the planet. I would tone all of that down a bit for maximum likability.
I suppose their rise to power is there to somehow steal/share the villainy spotlight that's almost always been occupied by Shade recently. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 23:43:53
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yeah, I'm willing to allow that just about everything exists somewhere in the Realms, but the mutated catfish thing just doesn't work for me.
Never has - its one of the few D&D beasties I hated from the moment I saw it.
I don't get the 'post-apocalyptic' vibe from the 0e/1e/2e/3e Realms, but I certainly get it from the 4e Realms. Too bad they never allowed for play in 1386 DR (still beating this dead horse) - thats got "Mad Max meets Elminster" written all over it. 
Whats cooler? Knowing that there are dragonborn (and tieflings) running around for at least a century, or having a town of them appear right next door to you? Ahhhhh... opportunities missed.... 
The entire 'new vs old' conflict was completely avoided, and the setting was re-booted in the 'age of peaceful tranquility'. I just don't get it - what in the nine hells were they thinking? They glossed-over what was possibly THE most interesting century of Realms history to play in.
I have to completely agree here. I love the 'Mad Max meets Elminster' visual...
Here's hoping we get some product support for this era in 5e... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 18:41:48
Yeah, I'm willing to allow that just about everything exists somewhere in the Realms, but the mutated catfish thing just doesn't work for me.
Never has - its one of the few D&D beasties I hated from the moment I saw it.
I don't get the 'post-apocalyptic' vibe from the 0e/1e/2e/3e Realms, but I certainly get it from the 4e Realms. Too bad they never allowed for play in 1386 DR (still beating this dead horse) - thats got "Mad Max meets Elminster" written all over it.
Whats cooler? Knowing that there are dragonborn (and tieflings) running around for at least a century, or having a town of them appear right next door to you? Ahhhhh... opportunities missed....
The entire 'new vs old' conflict was completely avoided, and the setting was re-booted in the 'age of peaceful tranquility'. I just don't get it - what in the nine hells were they thinking? They glossed-over what was possibly THE most interesting century of Realms history to play in. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:09:49
I don't mind the idea of a flying city that's not Netherese... But everything else I've read about the Sovereignty fails to interest me, at best. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:05:11
-I am 50-50 on them. I like the concept, but at the same time, I don't like that Aboleth have become more Far Realmsy Aberration than Psionic Underdark Aberration, nor do I like the implications that their ascendancy was supposedly supposed to have on the planet. I would tone all of that down a bit for maximum likability. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 04:31:23
I like the Sovereignty well enough. I just don't like them possibly being used as the "be all and end all" for all the nefarious plots inflicting the Realms. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 02:04:20
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd love to learn more about the clashes between giants and dragons. Or the phaerimm and the sharn. Or the aboleth and practically everything else.
Agreed. Except the last part. I'd like the aboleths to war with other outsiders, like the gith.
While it's a core 3e source, Lords of Madness notes that the aboleths have a multiversal perspective on their relations with other races.
I can see such perspectives being further developed for the expansive needs of the Sovereignty in the Realms.
I could be wrong. But I am under the impression that we're in the minority here. How many scribes (here) dislike or don't care for this race that after millenia of seclusion suddenly emerged and wreck havoc in the Realms?
So I wouldn't be surprised at all if they suddenly disappear in 5E. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 01:30:12
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd love to learn more about the clashes between giants and dragons. Or the phaerimm and the sharn. Or the aboleth and practically everything else.
Agreed. Except the last part. I'd like the aboleths to war with other outsiders, like the gith.
While it's a core 3e source, Lords of Madness notes that the aboleths have a multiversal perspective on their relations with other races.
I can see such perspectives being further developed for the expansive needs of the Sovereignty in the Realms. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 01:09:32
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd love to learn more about the clashes between giants and dragons. Or the phaerimm and the sharn. Or the aboleth and practically everything else.
Agreed. Except the last part. I'd like the aboleths to war with other outsiders, like the gith. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 21:09:58
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
<snip>I consider the ToT and the Spellplague to be about equivalent in the spiritual change to the Realms, which is both me saying that the ToT was a bigger deal than we now consider it AND that the Spellplague is less of a deal than we imagine. But I have a whole 18 page (and counting) thread devoted to neutering the Spellplague to being a footnote in history, so we don't need to go into that here.
Cheers
And there are several threads, some as long as that, discussing how to re-engineer the Spellplague from the beginning... but the best suggestion for that, IMO, is the most recent, from our friend Wooly. I suppose that this proves that RSEs are like fermented beverages or coffee... the longer you let them sit and process, the stronger they become. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 21:05:29
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
We know the Giants and Dragons warred long ago, but that's not as interesting when there weren't human civilizations caught in the crossfire, or at least not ones that were detailed.
I can't say I'd agree with that. Great Realms cataclysms don't have to involve the human element to keep me interested.
I'd love to learn more about the clashes between giants and dragons. Or the phaerimm and the sharn. Or the aboleth and practically everything else.
Agreed... on all counts... WotC, are you listening? |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 17:40:37
I'm looking at apocalypses in the "spirit" of the Realms, not so much in the actual physical damage or change in the status quo.
I think the Fall of Myth Drannor was more important symbolically as an apocalypse: it metaphorically broke the back of the elven empire in Faerun. But I agree that it didn't have the flashy physical impact that the others did.
I consider the ToT and the Spellplague to be about equivalent in the spiritual change to the Realms, which is both me saying that the ToT was a bigger deal than we now consider it AND that the Spellplague is less of a deal than we imagine. But I have a whole 18 page (and counting) thread devoted to neutering the Spellplague to being a footnote in history, so we don't need to go into that here.
Cheers |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 06:11:33
@Erik
Would the Fall of Myth Drannor and ToT really qualify as apocalyptic? ToT re-shuffled the pantheons abit and damaged some places but not to the extent the Crown Wars (entire elven civilisations crumbling into obscurity, including the loss of the dark elves who become dhaerow), the Fall of Netheril (Loss of Mystryl, Elimination of the Netherese empire wholesale from the face of Faerun, not withstanding the few canny archmages and the Shadovar, a basic reset for a huge part of Faerun as it ends Netherese dominance over a large portion of the continent and also creates the huge Aunaroch Desert.)
The fall of Myth Drannor was isolated to ONE elven empire, albeit the most open and arguably one of the most advanced and cultured realm at the time, but its fall was isolated in a sense that the victors and masterminds (The Trio Nefarious) were ended during the war and did not carve out some daemonic empire of destruction ala the Narfelli, and its survivors managed to retreat in good order to Evermeet. It's fall was merely a splash in the pond rather than somebody throwing a couple of ten ton boulders in it, which was kind of what the Crown Wars, The Fall of Netheril and the Spellplague did. |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 05:47:05
I meant interesting in an apocalyptic sense. I would still read a sourcebook about Dragon/Giant Wars cover-to-cover. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 05:27:41
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
We know the Giants and Dragons warred long ago, but that's not as interesting when there weren't human civilizations caught in the crossfire, or at least not ones that were detailed.
I can't say I'd agree with that. Great Realms cataclysms don't have to involve the human element to keep me interested.
I'd love to learn more about the clashes between giants and dragons. Or the phaerimm and the sharn. Or the aboleth and practically everything else. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 05:26:02
-Seemingly, there have been Humans for who knows how far back in history. They just haven't always been particularly civilized, advanced, or dominant, pick your descriptor. |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 05:24:55
We know the Giants and Dragons warred long ago, but that's not as interesting when there weren't human civilizations caught in the crossfire, or at least not ones that were detailed. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 04:46:42
-I would have liked to have seen one real, full blown Rage of the Dragons. The one that occurred in 1,374 DR, we got a trilogy, two short story collections, and a semi-related sourcebook, but it felt too watered down. A Rage having taken place in the past, it would've been kind of awesome to have gotten a real in-depth view of it, other than "In XYZ Year, a Dragon Rage took place". I mean total, wholesale destruction- tens of thousands of lives lost, entire civilizations destroyed, the planet itself hurt, scarred and changed... |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 04:35:59
That's an interesting point. It's all in the name "Forgotten" Realms--the whole setting is built around the concept of ancient civilizations and nations that have long ago fallen. (Ed originally named the setting in relation to our own world--that FR consists of the Realms "forgotten" by our world.)
The Realms runs through many, many apocalypses. The Crown Wars, the Fall of Netheril, the Destruction of Myth Drannor, the Time of Troubles, the Spellplague--those are all apocalypses that have pretty much run their course. And there are other apocalypses that have been thwarted: the rogue dragons, freeing the Phaerimm, the Shadowstorm, etc.
Cheers |
