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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Dalor Darden Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 05:49:36
Ok...I was thinking when I saw this that I knew what a Powrie is...and I still do: it is a scottish faerie sort of critter...sometimes called a Redcap.

So...what the heck is the Way of the Powrie doing as a road that runs from Ilinvur to the Frozen Flindyke and beyond?

Reading around a bit, I can see that the Powrie may be a cross between a Goblin and an Elf!!!

What if the Powrie are the "Twisted Ones" of Tyranthraxus' fame that helped him destroy the Kingdom of Barze and such?

Anyone have any thoughts?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Quale Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 19:27:33
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Why a redcap? there are powries in D&D, they are type of shadow fey from Ravenloft.



What book is that in Quale? I'd love to get a look at that.



The Shadow Rift adventure (2e) and Van Ricthen's Guide to the Shadow Fey (3e)
Mapolq Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 13:57:45
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

The map is from the Realmslore: Vaasa article from Dungeon #177 and was designed by me and drawn by Mike Schley.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/drrl/20100408

I know what I had in mind for the Way of the Powrie, but it's way more fun to read you folks' interpretations.



Thank you very much, Brian. It's a very good map, wonderfully drawn and detailed.

And I second Dalor's wishes.
Dalor Darden Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 13:54:32
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

The map is from the Realmslore: Vaasa article from Dungeon #177 and was designed by me and drawn by Mike Schley.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/drrl/20100408

I know what I had in mind for the Way of the Powrie, but it's way more fun to read you folks' interpretations.





You should share!!!
Brian R. James Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 06:03:10
The map is from the Realmslore: Vaasa article from Dungeon #177 and was designed by me and drawn by Mike Schley.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/drrl/20100408

I know what I had in mind for the Way of the Powrie, but it's way more fun to read you folks' interpretations.
Dalor Darden Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 02:55:06
You know...I can't remember at all where I got the map from! I think it was supposed to be a map concerning Vaasa...but I don't remember where I got it.
Mapolq Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 02:37:25
Dalor, would you know who made that map/where it is from? The western part is very reminiscent of the map in the Monument of the Ancients adventure, but that one only goes as far east as the West Galena range.

Thanks!
Dalor Darden Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 18:34:17
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

Yeah, the redcap stats in Monster Manual 3 are perfect.

What map did you find that road?



You can find it here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10166328/Thar%20Region%20Map.jpg

The Way of the Powrie leaves from Ilinver and then north across the Ride and Tortured Lands to the Frozen Flindyke.
Razz Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 18:17:36
Yeah, the redcap stats in Monster Manual 3 are perfect.

What map did you find that road?
Dalor Darden Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 17:28:11
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Why a redcap? there are powries in D&D, they are type of shadow fey from Ravenloft.



What book is that in Quale? I'd love to get a look at that.
Markustay Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 16:07:06
LOL DD - I think you've found your way to say exact condition I did while working on the Utter East project. It is actually possible to crave too much detail - sometimes 'vague' is actually the best way to proceed.

In FR, oft-times it is nearly impossible to tie-off every single loose end, without creating contradictions, so its better just to leave most of those loose ends loose.

Its how Ed designs - never paint yourself into a corner.
Quale Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 10:31:15
Why a redcap? there are powries in D&D, they are type of shadow fey from Ravenloft.
Dalor Darden Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 02:19:15
Way of the Powrie rez...

I've changed the nature of how I plan to present my "The Ride" project...and so I'm not going to be using stats on a Redcap.

Still going to simply call what I plan a Powrie though...
Markustay Posted - 12 Apr 2011 : 20:23:11
Okay, I am still looking for the 'fey gates' I mentioned in Quale's thread, but I may just be remembering something incorrectly (still not sure). I did find Crossroads & Backroads in Magic of Faerūn (pg.44), and that sounds a LOT like my concept for the leylines.

Just thought I'd point it out, because you may want to use it. Even you toss-out the leylines idea, it would still seem to me that that fluff would be directly applicable to 'the Way of the Powrie'.

Also, found a rather oddly-placed reference to Thar yesterday, in the Hordelands material. One of the cardstock-thingies has a chart with different horse-types you can find in The Wastes, and one of them (the Nar horse, IIRC) had 'Thar' listed as one of the regions it's found in.

Not directly related to the topic, but I know you've been searching around for any Thar references.

As a further expansion to that (and WAY off-topic), it also has the stats for the Steppe Ponies the barbarians use: in the LoI box there is a reference to the drow of the Forest of Mir using 'small horses' that most closely resemble the steppe ponies, so at least we have some crunch to go with those as well.

I know... I know... I just jumped from the far north to the distant south, but I'm a cartographer... what did you expect?
Markustay Posted - 04 Apr 2011 : 18:56:55
Well, its a fine line there, Arik. In my cosmological view, the 'Elder Gods' (not deities - Ed's "watching Gods") ARE part of the natural universe. They are concepts incarnate.

Ergo, if they are part of 'nature', then the system of ley-lines they set-down are a natural phenomena - something that was part of the how the universe was designed.

In the AEG book SECRETS, they have it where Ley-lines occur naturally, over time, and usually are created (accidentally) by sentient beings (but not always), and each is associated with a different domain (like priestly Domains). I use some of that, but I don't like the idea of a hap-hazard system of lines that appear at random based on well-used travel paths. I like the idea of 'associations', but I apply it to the nexus points (the Pools).

So I borrow heavily from their mechanics, but not the fluff. They do have some cool magic for tapping into and moving ley-lines (more like shifting them - you can never change the terminus points), so all of that is usable IMO.

My Own Take:
Energy beings (spirits, outsiders, etc) can use them like roads, and they greatly increase movement speeds if you know how to tap them. This is how fey (and others), although small in numbers in any one particular place, can appear in very large numbers when necessary (like when a group of them are threatened). The ley-lines become a magical rapid-transit system. Fey, by their nature, like a lot of room, so this works well on their behalf, where they can have all that space, and yet still remain 'close' to friends and relatives. This also ties-into how fey HATE when humans (and others) encroach upon them (usually to use-up local resources and destroy parts of the natural environment). They are territorial on a very primal level.

Except for House-Fey, which are rare, but can be found where humans (and other mortals) have found a way to live in harmony with nature (as they do in Rashemen). More often then any other race (even Elves), Fey develop these kinds of relationships with Halflings (with whom they feel a strange kinship).

In fact, quite contrary to popular belief, Fey will develop these kinds of relationships with elves least of all. They make exceptions with occasional Grugach (Wild) tribes, who still venerate the Fęltic Pantheon (Fey/Celtic), but they consider most Elves as heretics - most especially groups of Prime Eladrin (High Elves).

Also, 'wild' fey do not consider 'house fey' to be 'Seelie'. Mortals mistakenly think 'Seelie' means 'goodly', but they couldn't be more wrong. All 'Seelie' means is that those fey follow the dictates of the Court of Light. Unseelie fey (like the Powrie) follow the dictates of the Shadow Court. Ergo, most house fey are considered aberrations by both groups, and they are considered 'Twilight Fey' (there is no Twilight Court, although there is a group of beings that are considered the unofficial 'leaders' of Twilight Fey).

However, unless otherwise mandated by one of the Courts, all fey will be cordial with each other, and even assist each other, regardless of court, against non-fey. Two fey working to both assist and hinder a group of mortals on a quest, for instance, will continually apply their powers and abilities in that capacity in regards to the mortals (making the mortals VERY confused), but will NOT directly act against one-another. Fey harming another fey is extremely rare, and FORBIDDEN, by ALL Courts, and doing so will lead to being ostracized and even banished from Faerie.

Some say this is what happened with the elves.......
Dalor Darden Posted - 04 Apr 2011 : 18:33:39
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf

So, Dalor Darden (or however you prefer to abbreviate your screen name ), I take it you're at least set as far as the actual creature now?



Aye...will be using the Redcap.
Galuf the Dwarf Posted - 04 Apr 2011 : 16:15:57
So, Dalor Darden (or however you prefer to abbreviate your screen name ), I take it you're at least set as far as the actual creature now?
Ayrik Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 20:24:51
I personally prefer the notion that ley-lines weren't designed so much as being an organic (natural) system. Perhaps a remnant of some early act of divine/magical creation, sort of a (discarded) loom upon which the Weave was woven? Perhaps even a sort of anchor or "interior stitching" manifest upon Toril which allows the Weave to function? Perhaps even an ancient (and in some places imperfect or ugly) patch of repaired Weave sewn into the world? I'd speculate that since magic is a dynamic and growing force, ancient Mystras might have maintained the Weave with all sorts of extra threads and alterations which might leak magic ... Toril itself is somewhat alive in a magical sense, ley-lines might function as arteries and rivers through which magic constantly flows (much like weather) through the land.

Another reason I suspect Ed might have inspired or created magical moonwells and pools is that such magical/spiritual pools featured prominently in numerous RW pagan religions, indeed, they were often associated with some local earth/moon/life/fertility goddess. It's impossible not to notice the pagan (and mythological) influences and folklore adapted throughout Ed's earliest Realmslore. Of course, these same influences might have coincidentally been adapted by other writers without involving Ed at all; the Moonshaes were created by a UK writer who was no doubt at least passingly familiar with Celtic lore about druids and cauldrons and pools.
Markustay Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 20:09:09
Definitely sad: Read THO's last response to me in Ed's thread.

'Something' else existed in Realmspace in the distant past. I don't know what (or who) it was, but it was destroyed during the War of Light & Darkness, and the Tears of Selune are pieces of 'that which was lost'....

Also check-out the answer to the question I asked about the Inner Sea - I was told it is shaped that way for a specific reason (if you look at older, 1e/2e maps, it has a distinctive anthropomorphic outline). Ed has often alluded to a 'big secret' "sitting in plain sight", and since I spend a LOT of time staring at the maps....

There is also a massive skull floating in Realmsppace.

Near as I can tell, there were MANY more 'Selune's Tears' trailing behind her, but most have already fallen, all over Toril. The Star Mounts are one (and were mined during the crown-war era for 'moonsilver'), and the Moonsea was created by another (and not as long ago as many think).

So whatever 'it' was, it was BIG - probably another heavenly body - and probably represented a 'now lost' member of the Faerūnian pantheon (the Earthmother herself?)

I have often theorized about Toril having a 'dark moon' (note Shar's emblem), but it wouldn't make much sense if the 'lost moon' belonged to Shar (although it could have). I'm now thinking there may have been at least one other moon, if not several, and perhaps each governed a different form of lycanthropy in 'days of yore'. The presence of 'moonsilver' in the tears that fell (and its magically inherent properties) speaks volumes to lycanthrope-lore.

So yes, I think the original 'pools' (Ley-nodes) were designed, and the later ones were 'corruptions' in The Weave, but the Moonwells were something I feel were created 'by accident' - they were the result of a goddess's out-pouring of emotion over the world itself (for whatever reason). Each contains just a miniscule portion of her being.

So if The Weave - the very 'body of Mystra' - can have wounds in it (like that tear Elminster had to patch), where energy (the life-blood of a god?) pours forth, then why can't 'wells' also be connected to a god's energy, if they originated as something from the god (like tears)? I would think any 'fluid' from a god would be a physical manifestation of its own internal energies.
Ayrik Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:55:07
It's not weeping. The sun got in her eyes, that's all.

And for an encore, I'll just go away and listen to Dark Side of Selūne by Sphinx Boyd.
Bakra Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:42:48
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Interesting - that sounds like it was based on Ed's notes, for sure.

It also makes the pools more like 'wounds', which I really wasn't seeing before. I suppose there could be different types of pools (which there are) corresponding to various 'bodily orifices' (if we take The Weave to be a living thing, which it is - a living construct named Mystra).

So, if The Weave is designed to curtail 'raw energy' (as Ed has said it does), filter it, and deliver it in a 'safe form' to mortals, then we could also make the assumption that there may be more then one source of energy that the Weave is filtering (which makes sense in-light of how The Weave was created, no pun intended).

A pool of radiance is like a 'zit'; in fact, all the pools are. Whats bubbling to the surface would depend on what is causing it (which energy has built-up too much in one spot).

So Moonwells and Pools may be related, but of different origins. The Moonwells may have been created in some before-time, as I postulated, for whatever purpose, but the pools occur spontaneously. Both are conduits to various energy-sources (planes, in particular).

Still... I can't help but think that the Moonwells are somehow tears of Selune (not the meteoric kind, but rather, actual tears of a goddess that fell to earth). The name implies a connection, and it probably has something to do with the Earthmother as well.

Thank you for pointing that information out, Bakra.



You are welcome, thanks for making the 'zit' reference. I wasn't able to do it myself.

I'm beginning to think we need to start a Moonwells thread. And I'm stealing your idea about how they are created.
Big question: What made Selune weep? Are the happy tears? Or were they sad tears?
Markustay Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:05:20
Interesting - that sounds like it was based on Ed's notes, for sure.

It also makes the pools more like 'wounds', which I really wasn't seeing before. I suppose there could be different types of pools (which there are) corresponding to various 'bodily orifices' (if we take The Weave to be a living thing, which it is - a living construct named Mystra).

So, if The Weave is designed to curtail 'raw energy' (as Ed has said it does), filter it, and deliver it in a 'safe form' to mortals, then we could also make the assumption that there may be more then one source of energy that the Weave is filtering (which makes sense in-light of how The Weave was created, no pun intended).

A pool of radiance is like a 'zit'; in fact, all the pools are. Whats bubbling to the surface would depend on what is causing it (which energy has built-up too much in one spot).

So Moonwells and Pools may be related, but of different origins. The Moonwells may have been created in some before-time, as I postulated, for whatever purpose, but the pools occur spontaneously. Both are conduits to various energy-sources (planes, in particular).

Still... I can't help but think that the Moonwells are somehow tears of Selune (not the meteoric kind, but rather, actual tears of a goddess that fell to earth). The name implies a connection, and it probably has something to do with the Earthmother as well.

Thank you for pointing that information out, Bakra.
Bakra Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 13:54:58
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

My reading of the Moonshae novels suggested that Earthmother/Chauntea was strongly manifest in the Moonshaes. Virtually unopposed, actually, powerful enough to seemingly deny entry to other deities (except Kazgoroth/Malar/Bane, of course). In short, the Moonshaes were somehow part of her "domain" and other deities (such as Selūne) generally could not manifest any real power without Earthmother's approval.

Yes, the TSR-UK origins confuse the issue a lot. Darkwalker on Moonshae was published in May 1987; the Pool of Radiance CRPG and FRC1: Ruins of Adventure module (on which it was carefully based) were first released more than a year later (June 1988), followed by the novel (which was only loosely based on FRC1) in 1989 ... the timing is tight, PoR/RoA apparently took "over a year" to develop, so I really don't know whether SSI knew about moonwells when they created the pools. The coincidence suggests to me that both projects might have had access (or directives) relating to some sort of existing Ed lore about magic puddles. Thus I suspect Ed (or TSR's traffic cop) would hold the answer to this question.

I note that Tyranthraxus is described as having an "extra-dimensional nature" which gives him a flat 20% Magic Resistance and may (or may not) account for his flaming aura, ESP, and possession/transferance abilities. This suggests to me that he does not fully exist on the Prime and some part of his essence is still contained in the pool or another (fiery) plane; or perhaps the pool is a conduit through which he cannot fully pass (possibly because of Bane's influence).



The pools of radiance are described in detail in the adventure Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor by Sean K Reynolds. Please correct me if I am wrong, I don’t have the module in front of me. When the Weave gathers strongly in one spot it ‘bleeds’ through into Toril forming into pools of radiance. They last for a certain amount of time before the area repairs itself. Now the pools could be forming along the ley-lines/dragonlines and perhaps some do open up into other worlds. My theory is when Tryranthraxus came through a pool into Toril he realized just how powerful it could be to control one. He started to track them down along the dragon-lines and managed to anger the elves, dragons, Moander, Lathander and few other deities or powerful figures . Over the centuries he developed the means to corrupt one then later how to make one portable. All he had to do was what until the next one appeared. The Pool of Radiance in Phlan was a holy place dedicated to the goddess Selune. This crescent shape pool held pure clean holy water and was tended by local sect members. Then one day the nature of the pool changed. An actual pool of radiance formed within its waters. Through deductive reasoning, possession, and a little bit of luck Tyranthraxus knew where the next pool formed. He went to this location and captured the local sect members. Then in a horrific ritual sacrificed them in order to corrupt the pool.

Ayrik Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 02:56:17
My reading of the Moonshae novels suggested that Earthmother/Chauntea was strongly manifest in the Moonshaes. Virtually unopposed, actually, powerful enough to seemingly deny entry to other deities (except Kazgoroth/Malar/Bane, of course). In short, the Moonshaes were somehow part of her "domain" and other deities (such as Selūne) generally could not manifest any real power without Earthmother's approval.

Yes, the TSR-UK origins confuse the issue a lot. Darkwalker on Moonshae was published in May 1987; the Pool of Radiance CRPG and FRC1: Ruins of Adventure module (on which it was carefully based) were first released more than a year later (June 1988), followed by the novel (which was only loosely based on FRC1) in 1989 ... the timing is tight, PoR/RoA apparently took "over a year" to develop, so I really don't know whether SSI knew about moonwells when they created the pools. The coincidence suggests to me that both projects might have had access (or directives) relating to some sort of existing Ed lore about magic puddles. Thus I suspect Ed (or TSR's traffic cop) would hold the answer to this question.

I note that Tyranthraxus is described as having an "extra-dimensional nature" which gives him a flat 20% Magic Resistance and may (or may not) account for his flaming aura, ESP, and possession/transferance abilities. This suggests to me that he does not fully exist on the Prime and some part of his essence is still contained in the pool or another (fiery) plane; or perhaps the pool is a conduit through which he cannot fully pass (possibly because of Bane's influence).
Markustay Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 02:14:06
Moonwells appeared in the first Moonshae novel, which was released at the same time as the OGB, ergo my assumption would be that Moonwells pre-dated the Pools.

However, from what I understand, the Moonshaes were supposed to be a completely different setting, published by TSR-UK, in which case the novels written for it may have incorporated many elements from that unpublished setting, rather then the Realms (which is why the novels use 'Earthnother', rather the realm's 'Chauntea', which was retro-actively 'repaired' later in the second series).

So the 'Pools' may have come from Ed's notes, and were not originally connected to Douglas Niles's Moonwells, but translated into FR lore, they easilly fit the mold of deity-specific (attuned) Pools.

Although I am still leaning toward planer attunement, rather then deific (Domain), because the Moonwells seem to be connected to at least two deities (which is pure conjecture - the Moonshae Earthmother may encompass both Chauntea and Selune).
Ayrik Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 01:52:19
A better way to ask my question would be: did published lore about moonwells predate the pools? They're obviously very similar (puddles of magic), but which one inspired the other?
Markustay Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 01:29:22
If Ed had Moonwells, I would say that those perfectly circular little ponds were craters, and connected to the moon in 'deeper' ways. OR, maybe the whole island chain (Ed's was smaller and more numerous) are fragments of 'something greater'.

But who knows?

There is a short story about how the first Moonwells were created, but its written from a 'myth' perspective, so it doesn't have to be adhered to all that closely. It also includes info about the Earthmother's chosen servants (those beast-totem thingies).

Since the published Moonshaes are not the same as Ed's Moonshaes, I would just ignore most canon info about the place (and I find myself doing that mmore and more of late).
Ayrik Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 22:54:15
I think I'd view the pools more as prisons than phylacteries. Has anyone ever asked Ed any meaningful questions about the actual nature of these particular pools? Was the pool of radiance created by Ed? (I'm thinking it may have been created by James Ward and/or the SSI team, then further defined through subsequent products.) I wonder if the moonwells were actually inspired by the pools.
Markustay Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 22:21:36
Whats cool about that theory (aside from it being mine ), is that you can extrapolate it outward to encompass other canon lore.

For instance, we know that the 'Dark Three' were after the Seven Lost Gods. Those 'lost gods' were supposedly ancient, primordial* powers - who's to say that they didn't have 'special knowledge' about how the Pools worked? perhaps all of them were encamped near one, because they were pulling power from it (which explains why they were still around, despite having little or no worship).

A 'dead god' could use a pool in a similar way a Lich uses a phylactory (different mechanic, but same principle). They are basically on 'life support'.


*Using the English language definition here, and not the 4e one (although they could have very easily been Primordials.. a couple of them anyway.
Ayrik Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 21:11:24
It's hard to find concrete info about the pool of radiance (and similar pools). It's very much talked about from time to time ... but most of the talk is speculative and google content is overwhelmed with chatter about the eponymous games and novels. I agree with you, Markus, it's my understanding that the pools are essentially (evil/Bane) corrupted moonwells. It's never actually stated as such, but what was prevented in the novels might have already occurred long ago in the Moonsea region; thus we have magical pools which serve as portals to lower planes and we have a long-established history of Bane's dominance through a variety of half-forgotten monstrous proxies like the Seven Lost Gods. I'm not aware of any lore specifying ley-lines in the Moonsea region.
Markustay Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 20:55:05
You guys are disagreeing ('IF' you are disagreeing) over 'apples & oranges'. EDIT: LOL - you both responded before I finished my post.

The Fey are/were a 'Creator Race'. Their influence in the Moonsea region could have been ancient by the time the first Crown Wars started.

Ergo, of course newcomers like humans aren't going to see the influences... at first... but they are there, DEEPLY buried.

I don't want to derail another thread, but in my own HB proto-cosmology material I have it where there was just one Prime World (an entire plane, really) that was 'shattered' during the Godswar. That 'First World' was still "under construction", and things like Ley-lines and Planerpools allowed easy movement, of both people and raw materials, during that construction. They were meant to be shut-down (or at least better-hidden) after the work was done, but after the world was sundered the system broke-down, and most were left active (although all the original connections got scrambled).

Ley-lines are used like roads to beings of energy (spirits & the like; basically, outsiders) - its like jumping on the express lane of the highway. Pools, on the other hand, are Portals, but much more complicated then normal gates - more like the ones the Imaskari used (which they copied off the Creator Races), which were like Stargates (from the TV series and movie). They were re-settable by beings of power (Exarch or better), and any plane could be 'dialed-in' (this was to allow massive amounts of energy and material to be transferred during the construction).

Ley-Lines can be moved, but it usually requires an immense amount of power to do so, so it is not worth the expense under most circumstances. As I have said above, the AEG 3rd-party SECRETS source has lots of great rules and ideas about this stuff (only some of which I am borrowing here - most of this is my own conjecture based on FR's primordial past).

This why I think 'Pools' are the same thing as Moonwells - the Moonwels have merely be attuned to Selune or Chauntea's Realm (or some nature Domain). In fact, the novels even suggest something along these lines; Bane was trying to corrupt at least one Moonwell (IIRC). What he was really doing is trying to re-set it to his own Domain (or some infernal one).

The Pools/Moonwells were the original Road of Stars and Shadows, which is mentioned at the end of Secrets of the Magister. All the other gates made later by the Creators and others simply built-upon the system that was already in-place by 'The Gods'. If you enter one without attuning it to a specific plane or locale, you get something akin to 'The ways' from the WoT novels - a limbo-like region where you can get easily lost (a place where special archmages like Elminster can actually use, as seen in Elminster's Daughter).

Mostly conjecture, mind you, but that's how I see part of the 'Realms magic' working. That original 'web' of magical matrixes may have been what the Weave itself was built on top of (Think of it as DOS, and the Weave is 'Windows').

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