| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 16:48:47
I have a lore conundrum....if when the High Magi who created the mythal over the Elven Court at the end of the Weeping War excluded all but elves from entering the city....how is it that drow then managed to occupy it later before and during the Crusade????? It was a high magic mythal and should have been well beyond the drow at that time to crack....I'm confused....any ideas anyone????? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Mar 2013 : 20:34:17
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
“removing all taints of the drow and other fell creatures from the site,..
See Cormanthyr. This means "taint" back from the Dark Court Slaughter when drow came and go, but just to make a point left some souvenirs behind. Little things like the curse which made all water brought within Darkwoods turn dark-purple and poisonous (for non-drow elves only) or a gate randomly summoning spiders. The drow already were competitive by this time, so there probably was a lot of wildly varying and inventively annoying stuff like this scattered all over the place. Either way Cormanthans just gave up and left Darkwoods alone, only patrolling the borders to keep monsters away, until The Third Court Crusade you quoted.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Elves might call it Elven Court in front of others as thinly-disguised arrogance, a subtle way to insult all the non-elven courts. It would be like a human constantly reminding a halfling that Cormyr's royals and nobility and War Wizards are humans.
Ever paid attention to the elven nomenclature for things? They are completely self-sufficient in this regard and routinely use it to puff up even without any external witnesses... 
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I imagine the name would be ____ tel'quess - the blank being whatever the elvish word for court is.
...just like, as Markustay mentioned on the previous page, it's Elven High Magic, "Arselu'Tel'Quess". |
| Zireael |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 09:47:19
I think 'Elven Court' is a translation of the Elven term, just as Elven surnames like Moonflower, Moonblade etc. are assumed to be translations into Common. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 01:36:19
The Cormanthyr book simply referred to it as Elven Court. That's good enough for me. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Feb 2013 : 01:30:12
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I could show you a history book that has information on 'the Clovis People'... but I'm pretty sure they never called themselves that. 
Well, yeah.
My point, though, was simply to indicate that it was pretty definitive that "Elven Court" was probably the only name for the location that's been incorporated into the Realmslore. Whether there was actually a proper elven name for the location [however likely], it doesn't appear to have made it into the setting lore. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 18:23:21
Gotta watch Wapner, yeah... Gotta watch Wapner.... LOL!!! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 17:55:15
Okay, so I decided to go with Eversidh (Ever meaning something akin to "Elves only" and 'Sidh' being an old Gaelic word for 'Faerie court').
Anyhow, now I decided that the Mayor (High Elder) of Eversidh is named Waapnir, and he has a 'special' bailiff (court herald) that likes to say "Time for Wapner" (He's also known to indiscriminately blurt out other odd things, like "Very sparkly", "I'm a good coach-driver", and "I'm not wearing my Small clothes".)  |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 17:32:26
Yes, one minute to Wapner. I had you in there! You were in there! The defendant, the plaintiff, you had it all. They are in there making legal history. *Legal history!*
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 17:16:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I imagine the name would be ____ tel'quess - the blank being whatever the elvish word for court is. "Court of the People" or "Elven Court" are common translations of the simple, straightforward name the place was given long ago. Perhaps it was not meant as a place name and simply as a descriptor, but it stuck and there it is 6000 years later.
In other words, it's The People's Court! (Dada dum!)  |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 16:51:34
I imagine the name would be ____ tel'quess - the blank being whatever the elvish word for court is. "Court of the People" or "Elven Court" are common translations of the simple, straightforward name the place was given long ago. Perhaps it was not meant as a place name and simply as a descriptor, but it stuck and there it is 6000 years later. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 16:45:17
I could show you a history book that has information on 'the Clovis People'... but I'm pretty sure they never called themselves that.
And there are literally hundreds of other RW examples. What people call something today (and an FR sourcebook can be considered in in-game history book) may not be what it was called by the people who built it. The Citadel of the Raven is an obvious example of this.
A very good large-scale example of this we can see in Dwarves Deep - the Dwarves have their own names for most of the geography of Faerűn.
This should fall into the same category as the Elven Port, which Erik Boyd provided a name for (and re-discovered) recently. The Elven Port was never really "Elven Port" - thats just what folks called it.
Since the map I am currently working on is so far removed from canon its barely even FR anymore, I am not sure why this even mattered to me. I could just call it whatever I want. I wonder if its possible to be a 'Canon Addict'. As much as I keep trying to divorce myself from it, I keep finding myself drifting back.
And you know what they say... junkies always find each other... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 02:49:19
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
*** Rez Scroll ***
Elven Court: Does this place have a real name?
Seriously... thats like us naming a city 'human court' - makes little sense to me. Its also in common - at the very least it would have a name in Elven (like Eversidh, or some-such). Anyone know of another name for it?
This reminds me of 'Elevn Port' (which we now have a name for).
From Cormanthyr:-
quote:
This place, established in Corellon's name as a place of decision and judgment, became Elven Court.
Sounds definitive to me. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 00:17:15
I would guess it has an elven name, that we don't know yet and that humans have come to just call it Elven Court. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 02 Feb 2013 : 21:34:05
True names have magical power. Perhaps the name is sacred and secret, speaking it in the presence of N'Tel'Quessir (or any elves "tainted" by outsiders) might be forbidden.
Elves might call it Elven Court in front of others as thinly-disguised arrogance, a subtle way to insult all the non-elven courts. It would be like a human constantly reminding a halfling that Cormyr's royals and nobility and War Wizards are humans. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Feb 2013 : 21:15:54
*** Rez Scroll ***
Elven Court: Does this place have a real name?
Seriously... thats like us naming a city 'human court' - makes little sense to me. Its also in common - at the very least it would have a name in Elven (like Eversidh, or some-such). Anyone know of another name for it?
This reminds me of 'Elevn Port' (which we now have a name for). |
| Zireael |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 17:10:47
I think it was mentioned in FoMD that the drow are expelled by the mythal. And I think it did not extend to the part of Cormanthyr then called Elven Court (remember the book is for around 750 DR, not now). |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 03:30:52
I like the idea that whilst they inhabited the out lying districts, the 'city center' was off limits...... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 17:31:12
I'm in agreement with capnvan on this, as it is the best explanation.
The 'Elven Court' has come both to mean a rather large area of the forest, and also is the name of the settlement within that part of the forest.
Or they could have just used a can of their bat-Mythal repellent fron their utility belts. |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 14:58:49
“removing all taints of the drow and other fell creatures from the site,..the High Mages immediately (within the same tenday) began to weave a mythal about Elven Court... 13 High Mages that gave their lives for this new elven capital... a brand-new mythal of extraordinary strength and power, its boundaries set as a pyramid defining the city site and reflecting and enhancing the star- and moonlight... While Elven Court would not be anathema to non-elves, it was not to be a place for them to live or leave their influences”
Fall of Myth Drannor taken from page 36.....this is the mythal that I am talking about......... taken from the PDF I downloaded for free from the WOTC site... |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 14:53:42
“removing all taints of the drow and other fell creatures from the site,..the High Mages immediately (within the same tenday) began to weave a mythal about Elven Court... 13 High Mages that gave their lives for this new elven capital... a brand-new mythal of extraordinary strength and power, its boundaries set as a pyramid defining the city site and reflecting and enhancing the star- and moonlight... While Elven Court would not be anathema to non-elves, it was not to be a place for them to live or leave their influences”
Fall of Myth Drannor taken from page 36.....this is the mythal that I am talking about......... taken from the PDF I downloaded for free from the WOTC site... |
| Dracons |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 13:27:04
It be nice if we got a better idea where it is in there. Site us a big example or text from there, as what your stating is nowhere in American versions. |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 09:32:06
FOD should read FoMD.....oops my bad... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:10:19
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Quite right. The DL sourcebook "The Sylven Veil" had a nice write-up about the ritual and its effects, as well. There was even a nice little background-type story of a pair of elves whose potential union went against traditions and thus they were forced to undergo the ritual test to determine whether they were "dark" elves.
There's even been some further treatment of the ritual, through several short stories in the collected DL anthologies. Worthwhile reads, and plenty of interesting details. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 21:36:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's a lot more to it, but that's a brief rundown. I always thought that was more interesting than the Krynnish dark elves (outcast regular elves) or the drow of most D&D worlds.
It's not as simple as just being branded an "outcast." There's a long and drawn out process involved when an Krynnish elf is declared a "dark elf" -- that impacts upon not only the elf in question, but the community he/she came from as well. The 3e DL rule-books offered some rather in-depth treatment of this aspect, actually.
Quite right. The DL sourcebook "The Sylven Veil" had a nice write-up about the ritual and its effects, as well. There was even a nice little background-type story of a pair of elves whose potential union went against traditions and thus they were forced to undergo the ritual test to determine whether they were "dark" elves. I liked the ritual so much I used parts of it for my homebrew world to explain the origin of my drow- no seperate race, these, but a bunch of elves who turned traitor and were "cursed" by a ritual using the power of the elven gods. It made for a very nice explanation of why they hate other elves so much. Being decended from the same families and race, they felt doubly enraged for being turned into something completely different. And some are still cursed if the crimes committed are bad enough, so there are some drow in my current campaign who remember what it was like to be a surface elf before their transformation. It makes for some great PC bg! |
| Dracons |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 11:22:42
I don't see that anywhere in that sourcebook on those pages. |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 10:39:35
Fall of Myth Drannor....shorthand....sorry.... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 08:51:23
In game mechanics, yes, but in-story, that doesn't really pan-out. 'High magic' was supposedly different - It had some sort of connection to the Eleven Gods (similar to how the magic of the Old Empires was, before it was retconed). It is a mixture of divine and arcane magic.
So yeah, the Epic Spell system works in-game, but then non-Elves cast exactly the same spells if they are high enough level, which completely negates the fact that it is Elven High magic. If everyone can do it, then what is the difference?
The problem comes from the fact that they can't let Players anywhere near 'real' Elven High Magic - making Mythals, changing the nature of a comet, cuasing tidal Waves, and, OH YEAH... Sundering the Planet.
PCs would have a field-day with those abilities. |
| Dracons |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 08:40:58
Elven high magic is pretty easy to understand.
Arcane Magic: Levels 1-9.
Elven High Magic: Epic Spells. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 04:35:18
Okay, didn't realize you meant the Elven Court - I never understood the redundancy of the two cities. Then again, I never understood the redundancy of having two Elves - one is one too many in my book.
The Elven Court was also an Arcane Mythal, like that in Myth Drannor? That might explain it - the Arcane magic version wasn't as good as the original, Elven High-Magic version.
And please don't ask me to explain the difference, because I never understood that either - Elves confuse the crap out me. Probably why Cormanthyr is still the only FR source I've never read (only bits of it that I was directed to while debating certain lore points).
In 4e, it is probably better explained by saying High Magic taps into the Fey power source - at least now we have a difference I can grasp.
Anyway, I'd say in reality it was because someone made a snafu, but in-game I would say they were wearing specially constructed Piwafwi (with shadow-magic?) that rendered them 'invisible' to the Mythal.
|
| Snowblood |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 03:58:04
“removing all taints of the drow and other fell creatures from the site,..the High Mages immediately (within the same tenday) began to weave a mythal about Elven Court... 13 High Mages that gave their lives for this new elven capital... a brand-new mythal of extraordinary strength and power, its boundaries set as a pyramid defining the city site and reflecting and enhancing the star- and moonlight... While Elven Court would not be anathema to non-elves, it was not to be a place for them to live or leave their influences”
FOD pp 36.....this is the mythal that I am talking about......... |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 03:48:06
sigh....I just love it when a scroll meanders off track & doesn't address the core discussion.....sigh...... |
