| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 16:55:07
Hi, long time player and lover of the Forgotten Realms, brand new poster in Candlekeep
I posted this on another message board, someone suggested to me that I should post it here, so this is a copy/paste of my post:
"Hi, here is a Forgotten Realms question/post for those interested
In the last couple of years, with the Lost Empires of Faerun sourcebook and the Serpents Kingdoms sourcebook there has been a whole lot of revelation about the first age in the Realms, the “Days of Thunder”, the “prehistoric” age of Toril over -20,000 years before the present year in the Realms.
In the Days of Thunder there were a number of consecutive world-spanning empires of the “Creator Races” the first and greatest sentient races in the Realms (that created or de-evolved into many of the primitive humanoids and monsters in the modern age): The Sarrukh, The Batrachi, The Aearee, and The Fey. In earlier Realms canon the Dragons were a Creator Race but that appears to have been changed. Humanity is also a “Creator Race” but was not much more than Neanderthals during that time and only in the present history (in the Realms) have humans reached world-spanning potential.
Now, here is the way I see it, mostly using basic scientific theory and some general train of thought (Don’t you hate it when new canon infringes on your years-long thought-out home-brew?  *l*)
The Creator Races are the true, native sentient species evolved on the planet of Aber-Toril. The has planet existed for millions of years and numerous species have naturally (Darwin’s theory) evolved into sentience...the most successful species being the orders (as in scientific orders) of the Sarrukh (reptile), the Batrachi (amphibian), the Aearee (bird) species, some of the Progenitor Races. I also maintain that what was to become humanity also had its own time in the Days of Thunder, a race I termed the Primians (human).
I do not see the Fey as a progenitor race as they are not “natural” (Darwin’s theory) but are usually accepted in RPGs as living embodiments of either nature or life...every D&D world has a fey population to a certain extent, depending on it’s youth and level of civilization. So the Fey as a progenitor is out.
I could go into the history of the Primians but that’s not the purpose of this post and this post is too long anyway so I’ll just finish by saying in my home brew Forgotten Realms campaign (that I have been building/rebuilding from 2nd to 3rd Ed., tinkering on and off with since 2001), the core of the campaign is the premise that there is a hidden, unbroken bloodline of Primian-Humanity that has existed for over 40,000, dedicated to the worship of the Sun, Moon and Nature and as the fallout of the Time of Troubles continue (ancient secrets awakening) the Primian dynasties must also reveal themselves...
So mostly this long post is for the FOR fans/players to get their thoughts on the Creator Races and how everything ancient is becoming new again in the Realms."
and if anyone is interested, I have alot more ideas about the Days of Thunder as a whole and my Primians
Kalin |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 08:46:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To use a real-world example, someone living in England could quite likely know of the existence of rednecks from the US's Deep South. That doesn't mean that there are rednecks in the UK, though.
So true! |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 19:08:50
My favorite theory is that the illithids fled to Toril as refugees from the Gith rebellion. Evidence for this is found in Driz'zt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark which says that Oryndoll was settled circa -11,000 DR by illithid refugees from Glyth. While there are other possible things they could have been fleeing from, internal strife, attack from beholders from H'Catha, natural disaster, Tarrasque attack, I like to think this date marks the start of the slave revolt led by Gith.
We are told in the Guide to the Astral that Gith was named after her homeworld. I think it likely that Gith was raised on Glyth. The names are similar enough that the slight difference in spelling could be accounted for by 12,000 years of linguistic drift. Or something as simple as a grammatical infix--perhaps "l" is used as a genitive marker, place name marker, or neutral gender marker in the Gith language.
If so, then the illithids likely colonized the planet Glyth long before the rebellion, perhaps tens of thousands of years. They could easily have explored Toril, sent raiding parties to kidnap humans for implantation, maybe even had some kind of contact with Sarrukh or Batrachi in the past, but refrained from settling Toril for various reasons until they were forced to flee there as refugees during the war. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 00:20:22
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs from Mhairshaulk (c. -34800 to c. -33500) know existence of illithids... so... there's a contradiction...
Not really.
Some of those few illithids the sarrukh encountered might have been scouts for the main population from Glyth, sent to explore the Realms. Perhaps they spent thousands and thousands of years slowly setting up some enclaves of illithid-spawn in the hope of "shaping" events in the Realms, to prepare for the arrival of their masters in -11,000 DR. Or, maybe they were exiles, or escaped prisoners.
Additionally, given some of the alternate origin/creation methods I noted above previously, perhaps other illithid types entered the Realms through other ways well before the advance of the main population from Glyth.
We shouldn't also discount the possibility that the powerful magicks commanded by the sarrukh allowed them to peer through portals/gateways or utilise other arcane methods to explore Realmspace, and learn of the illithid population on Glyth. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 17:01:18
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs from Mhairshaulk (c. -34800 to c. -33500) know existence of illithids... so... there's a contradiction...
Not necessarily. Prior to -11,000, there might have been a few isolated illithids in the Realms, having arrived either by spelljammer way in advance of the main colonization, or they might have wound up on Toril via planar travel. Alternatively, the sarrukh may have encountered the illithids somewhere other than Toril, thru similar methods.
To use a real-world example, someone living in England could quite likely know of the existence of rednecks from the US's Deep South. That doesn't mean that there are rednecks in the UK, though. |
| Asharak |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 16:11:43
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs from Mhairshaulk (c. -34800 to c. -33500) know existence of illithids... so... there's a contradiction... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 12:38:42
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
Is there anyone knows more about this other deep creatures and how old, and where are illithids and aboleths civilizations come from?
(I don't now if it's the good post for such question)
There's one theory -- established in The Essential Guide to Mind Flayers -- that suggests aboleths represent a proto-mutation of the mind flayer form. In essence, the aboleths and the proto-mind flayers shared a common ancestral progenitor. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 11:33:53
All you ever wanted to know about Mind Flayers, but were afraid to ask! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 11:11:36
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
Ah! That is correct, I was referencing the 'generic' lore, i think... Good old spelljammers, I dread the day my players get their hands on one 
One of the theories from the Book of Aberrations states that the illithids are basically entities that arrived from a far off future. They travelled back in time apparently, to flee racial destruction. It was recorded that they appeared two thousand years before the "present" era and enslaved the race of creatures which would come to be collectively referred to as the "gith."
However, this doesn't relate completely [aside from the reference to possible time travel] with the theory from the "Sargonne Prophecies" in The Illithiad. Sargonne was a seer and the prophecies he recorded were believed to foretell future events. He recorded his visions on a stone tablet which came to bear his name. This stone tablet seems to make reference to a "seed" which violently appeared in our multiverse from a nightmarish realm beyond mortal comprehension [likely the Far Realm] which gave rise to the early precursors of the illithid populations in our reality.
It is possible that this seed contained thousands and thousands of the illithids tadpoles that are a necessary component for a mortal's transformation into an illithid as a result of the process of ceremorphosis. Ceremorphosis is simply the way illithids "reproduce," so perhaps these first tadpoles encounter emerging mortal forms on the worlds they fell upon creating the illithid standard we are familiar with today.
There is another theory stating that the illithids were the products of mortals breaching the planar boundaries between our reality and that of the Far Realm, and returning to our multiverse after being exposed to the transformation process in the Far Realm. These illithids would likely have brought the secrets of their creation back with them in order to perpetuate their species in our multiverse.
|
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 10:22:38
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
Ah! That is correct, I was referencing the 'generic' lore, i think... Good old spelljammers, I dread the day my players get their hands on one |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 09:58:13
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 09:46:27
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs use troglodyte to explore Underdark. Troglodytes gives to sarrukhs informations about illithids and aboleths civilizations, and also about others deep creatures.
Is there anyone knows more about this other deep creatures and how old, and where are illithids and aboleths civilizations come from?
(I don't now if it's the good post for such question)
Dunno about the Aboleths, but the Illithids came from another plane in the distant future (i think). Wouldn't it be a chuckle if they turned outto be a creator race? |
| Asharak |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 20:46:06
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs use troglodyte to explore Underdark. Troglodytes gives to sarrukhs informations about illithids and aboleths civilizations, and also about others deep creatures.
Is there anyone knows more about this other deep creatures and how old, and where are illithids and aboleths civilizations come from?
(I don't know if it's the good post for such question) |
| Asharak |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 15:33:24
In my Forgotten Realms, humans are not a creator race because they doesn't create anything (as builder or mage) before the end of The Crown Wars some 25000 years after sarrukhs rise to civilization and 15000 after the end of The Time of the Dragons.
I keep only three creator races (fey aren't Faerûn native) like in The Savage Frontier (lizard, amphibian, and avian peoples). |
| Tyranthraxus |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 13:42:24
A question regarding 4e.
Did the Creator Races arrive before or after the war against the gods and primordials?
And does that make dragons the "unofficial" 6th Creator Race (for creating dragonborn, drakes and other dragonlike beasts)? |
| Quale |
Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 18:17:14
Welcome, hi. My theory is actually the other way around, humans are the last creator race, of the fifth element, and titans, giants, whatever are a result of their alchemical experiments and attempts of becoming ''Supermen'', challenging gods. |
| Wrigley |
Posted - 09 Nov 2009 : 00:45:48
quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
Hi, long time player and lover of the Forgotten Realms, brand new poster in Candlekeep
I posted this on another message board, someone suggested to me that I should post it here, so this is a copy/paste of my post:
"Hi, here is a Forgotten Realms question/post for those interested
In the last couple of years, with the Lost Empires of Faerun sourcebook and the Serpents Kingdoms sourcebook there has been a whole lot of revelation about the first age in the Realms, the “Days of Thunder”, the “prehistoric” age of Toril over -20,000 years before the present year in the Realms.
In the Days of Thunder there were a number of consecutive world-spanning empires of the “Creator Races” the first and greatest sentient races in the Realms (that created or de-evolved into many of the primitive humanoids and monsters in the modern age): The Sarrukh, The Batrachi, The Aearee, and The Fey. In earlier Realms canon the Dragons were a Creator Race but that appears to have been changed. Humanity is also a “Creator Race” but was not much more than Neanderthals during that time and only in the present history (in the Realms) have humans reached world-spanning potential.
Now, here is the way I see it, mostly using basic scientific theory and some general train of thought (Don’t you hate it when new canon infringes on your years-long thought-out home-brew? *l*)
The Creator Races are the true, native sentient species evolved on the planet of Aber-Toril. The has planet existed for millions of years and numerous species have naturally (Darwin’s theory) evolved into sentience...the most successful species being the orders (as in scientific orders) of the Sarrukh (reptile), the Batrachi (amphibian), the Aearee (bird) species, some of the Progenitor Races. I also maintain that what was to become humanity also had its own time in the Days of Thunder, a race I termed the Primians (human).
I do not see the Fey as a progenitor race as they are not “natural” (Darwin’s theory) but are usually accepted in RPGs as living embodiments of either nature or life...every D&D world has a fey population to a certain extent, depending on it’s youth and level of civilization. So the Fey as a progenitor is out.
I could go into the history of the Primians but that’s not the purpose of this post and this post is too long anyway so I’ll just finish by saying in my home brew Forgotten Realms campaign (that I have been building/rebuilding from 2nd to 3rd Ed., tinkering on and off with since 2001), the core of the campaign is the premise that there is a hidden, unbroken bloodline of Primian-Humanity that has existed for over 40,000, dedicated to the worship of the Sun, Moon and Nature and as the fallout of the Time of Troubles continue (ancient secrets awakening) the Primian dynasties must also reveal themselves...
So mostly this long post is for the FOR fans/players to get their thoughts on the Creator Races and how everything ancient is becoming new again in the Realms."
and if anyone is interested, I have alot more ideas about the Days of Thunder as a whole and my Primians
Kalin
If I may revive this topic a litle I would like to add my opinion.
I agree with Sarrukh (reptile), the Batrachi (amphibian) and the Aearee (bird) as creator races (they are canon after all), also I think the Fey are correctly placed. The last creator race (I stick with 5 creator races statement) in my view is some type of ancient titans (I don´t have a name for them) which created human-looking races (giants, trolls, ettins, ogres and humans). This is only sort of inteligent native creature which I haven´t seen explanation of making (correct me please if I am wrong).
Since this is my first post in Candlekeep I would like to say HI |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 19:45:29
The timeline up to this point is basically completed except I'd like to add some names to it, geographical and political names (kingdoms, cities, empires, etc.). I’m also thinking of adding some “deity” news events to it too...
 |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 19:18:37
Any questions are welcome
The Days of Thunder and Cail'lansia
( 26,500 Years Ago )
n/a DR
- After millennia the Age of Darkness and Ice ends and Aber-Toril begins to thaw and life begins to spread across Ellian (the super-continent) once again
- The Primal Powers return their attention to the Realms
n/a DR
- In the oceans the first (modern) sentients begin to form nomadic communities
- The Primal Powers begin to grant divine magic and miracles to true worshipers
- Ao starts to allow the entry of new powers into the universe, gods that would patron the young mortal races
-57,000 DR
- The first cephalopod sentients appear in the Realms
-54,500 DR
- The first insectoid sentients appear in the Realms
-51,000 DR
- In the deep trenches of the Sea of Storms the Cephalopod Child of Ellese, the Octophin, first of the true Progenitor Races, found their first Kingdom
-50,000 DR
- The Octophin migrate into the shallows of the Goldenwater and south into the vast island chains of Bellade's Jewels
-49,500 DR
- The Octophin enter the Underdark through abyssal undersea trenches and found a city-state in an Underdark sea
- Octophin explorers discover the aboleth and the octophin city is quickly besieged and enslaved by the aboleth who start their breeding
-49,000 DR
- Along the western coast of the Ellian's sub-continent Sudra the Insectoid Child of Ellese, the Kr'Icct, second of the true Progenitor Races, construct their Hive-Empire
- The aboleth lifeshaping efforts corrupt the octophin into the morkoth and korpu aberration races
- The aboleth send their minions back into the surface ocean led by the first of the kraken also bred from the strongest octophin
-48,000 DR
- The Kr'Icct Empire of hive cities has spread across Sudra, famine is threatening, the insectoids wasting resource recklessly as their populations increases exponentially
- The Kraken Kings and their armies of morkoth conquer the last of the original Octophin Kingdoms in the deep trenches
- The first piscine sentients appear in the Realms
-47,500 DR
- Very few Octophin kingdoms remain as the Kraken Kings have pursued the Octophin into the shallowest coastlines of Bellade's Jewels
- Many Octophins flee east into the Great Ocean to escape the Krakens
-46,000 DR
- The Kr'Icct have reduced much of Sudra into a barren desert and wasteland and are now migrating northeast, along the southern shore of the Black Sea and into the western jungles of Kata'shaka
- The depredations of the Kr'Icct through Kata'shaka awaken the plant race Adu'jas, the most ancient of sentients from the Time before Time, from their millennia slumber
- The Adu'jas fail to reason with the Kr'Icct and rise up against the Kr'Icct Empire to halt their spread
-45,500 DR
- Far from the tentacles of the Kraken the refugee Octophins rebuild their civilization in the depths of the Great Ocean
- The Adu'jas call upon the Fey to open portals into Faerie to summon Titania's Host to hold back the Kr'Icct while they prepare a final solution for the hordes of insectoids
- The Kr'Icct Empire is decimated by the Adu'jas's magical pestilence that strips the mind of all reasoning and leaving only an instinctive beast
- Some Kr'Icct pray to the gods for salvation and Ataran sends a hive city into the Outer Planes where they become the Formians
-44,000 DR
- The second Octophin Empire once again starts to expand into surrounding waters, encountering a number of primitive races including an intelligent race of fish men who call themselves the Canthodi
- The Octophin bring civilization to the Canthodi through treaties and trade agreements
- With the guidance of the Octophin, in the Great Ocean the piscine Child of Ellese, the Canthodi, third of the true Progenitor Races, found their first nation of semi-nomadic tribes
-43,000 DR
- The surviving Kr'Icct refound their Empire in the great Black Desert in Sudra as a theocracy, ruled by high priests proclaiming the new piety and purity of the Kr'Icct race and the sacredness of the Earth Mother
- The Kraken Kings' scouts discover the Octophins and begin to infiltrate the Empire
- More Canthodi nations form and the race begins to migrate west across the Great Ocean
-42,500 DR
- War rages throughout the Great Ocean between the Octophin empire and the Kraken Kings and their armies of slave-minions
- The Canthodi join with their Octophin allies against the Kraken
- Civil Holy War implodes the Kr'Icct's Holy Empire into a number of splinter hive-kingdoms warring amongst themselves over racial purity
- Many Kr'Icct flee deeper into Ellian to escape religious persecution
-42,000 DR
- The Octophin and Canthodi drive the Kraken King's armies back into the Trenches of the Sea of Storms
- The Kr'Icct Civil Holy War ends and the Kr'Icct's Holy Empire has been reduced to a number of hive City-States across Sudra
- The first amphibious sentients appear in the Realms
-41,500 DR
- The Octophin/Canthodi alliance finally breaks the Kraken King's power forever, overthrowing their slave-minion armies and scattering the surviving kraken into the farthest oceans
- The Octophin Empire and the Canthodi Nations forge the Undertide Treaty where the Octophin would have the shallows along the coast of Ellian and the Canthodi will have the deep sea and ocean waters
- The Octophin priests call down the power of the gods and seal most of the undersea entrances into Underdark to prevent any further aboleth threats to the ocean peoples
- The Golden Age of the Octophin as their Empire stretches along Ellain's eastern coastline, from Bellade's Jewels, the sub-continent Harre to the Dawn Isles
-41,000 DR
- The Canthodi Nations begin to spread north and south down the spine of the Great Ocean
- The Third Kr'Icct Empire begins in the Shaar when Kr'Icct scholars discover the art of rudimentary arcane magic
- The new Kr'Icct Empire converts from the faith of the Earth Mother Ellese to the Keeper of the Weave, Myst and concern them selves with advancing the Art and less on racial purity
-40,000 DR
- The Kr'Icct hive City-States in Sudra first encounter the Kr'Icct Magocracy in Shaar, relations are tense
- The Kr'Icct Magocracy construct the first known arcane magical items in the Realms
-39,500 DR
- By a fortuitous accident the Canthodi discover how to smelt metal in undersea volcanic vents, in a few years the fish-men have tools and weapons of gold, copper and aluminum
- The Kr'Icct hive City-States attempt to rally to make for on the Kr'Icct Magocracy but inter-city hatred prevent this
- Kr'Icct Constructs begin construction on a wall that would stretch across Kata'shaka
- The first reptilian sentients appear in the Realms
-39,000 DR
- In the remote corners of the Octophin Empire dark cults of the undersea god Panzuriel the Enslaver are founded, secretly led by korpu priests serving the kraken of the Great Ocean
- The Kraken crusades start in as the Canthodi Nations begin to hunt down all kraken, morkoth, korpu and other twisted undersea denizen
- After numerous raids and assaults from the hive City-States, the completion of the Zealots Wall prevents the spread of the Kr'Icct hive city-states into the Kr'Icct Magocracy
- The Kr'Icct Magocracy commences with the exploration of the rest of Ellain
-38,500 DR
- The Throne of the Octophin Empire is corrupted by the faith of Panzuriel and the ruling class becomes cold and degenerate.
- In the outlaying settlements of the Octophin Empire disease and attacks from beasts from the depths unsettle the populace and the Empire must contend with numerous small rebellions
- The Octophin Empire becomes a dictatorship and any that speaks against the Emperor is executed and the kraken and their korpu agents now work openly in the Empire
- Octophin refugees flee into the deeper ocean into the Canthodi Nations or inland, adapting to freshwater, to escape the depraved Octophin Empire.
- As the Crusade continues some Canthodi Nations leave the Great Ocean and travels east, colonizing the Sea of Storms that the Octophin had lost millennia ago
-38,000 DR
- The Octophin Empire breaks the Undertide Treaty and Panzuriel sends the greatest of his servants, a Krakentua, to lead the Octophin armies to conquer the Canthodi
- The Canthodi despair as they discover that the Octophin have been dominated by the kraken and the Nations unite into a great host to conquer the corrupt Octophin
- The Octophin and Canthodi war across the Great Ocean, the greatest battles off the coast of Myrmidune and Harre
-37,500 DR
- A Canthodi priestess vanquishes the Krakentua with the aid of the avatar of Eadro
- The throne of the Octophin Empire is shattered and Canthodi pursue any Octophin that has been tainted by Panzuriel and the krakens
- The Kr'Icct Magocracy now stretches over most of Ellain, the insectoids teaching the lesser races the fundamentals of arcane magics and the worship of Myst
-37,000 DR
- The End of the Octophin Empire
- Those octophin refugees not sheltered by the Canthodi flee into the abyssal trenches of the Great Ocean
- A great period of peace begins in the oceans as the Canthodi Nations end the threat of Panzuriel and the kraken
- In the northeast corner of Ellain, in the great Ana Marshes The Amphibious Child of Ellese, the Batrachi, fourth of the true Progenitor Races, found their first kingdoms
- The first mammalian sentients appear in the Realms
-36,500 DR
- The Octophin race has ended, degenerating into the tako and other primitive sentient cephalopods
- Batrachi explorers begin to migrate out of the Ana Marshes, following fresh water river systems and adapting to brackish coastline systems
- The Kr'Icct Magocracy and the Batrachi Kingdoms first encounter each other resulting in peaceful but strained relations
- Trade begins with Canthodi Nations and the Batrachi Kingdoms
- The enduring peace in the oceans allow the establishment of three more Canthodi nation
-36,000 DR
- The Batrachi have colonized the Dawn Isles and are rapidly expanding south along the coastline to Bellade's Jewels and inland towards The Inner Seas
-35,500 DR
- The Kr'Icct race is suddenly and irrefutably devastated as mysteriously the Adu'jas Pestilence awakens in the Kr'Icct race and swiftly spreads across Ellain
- The Kr'Icct hive City-States are reduced to savage, primitive tribes by the Adu'jas Pestilence
- Those Kr'Icct that are not struck down by the Adu'jas Pestilence in the Kr'Icct Magocracy flee into the outer planes, never to be seen again
- The Batrachi have reached The Inner Seas and settle in the foothills of the Mountains of Jerrot
- The Batrachi are forced to begin a genocidal war against their now savage and insane Kr'Icct allies as the insectoids start to raid and slaughter Batrachi settlements
- The first avian sentients appear in the Realms
-35,000 DR
- The Kr'Icct race has ended, the survivors of the Adu'jas Pestilence becoming the descendants of the thri-kreen, aspis, hook horror and other insectile races, only the creature named today as the vermin lord retains the greatness of the lost Kr'Icct
- Along the northern shore of the Goldenwater the Sauroid Child of Ellese, the Sarrukh, fifth of the true Progenitor Races, found their first kingdom
|
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 16:46:02
Ok, here is the start of my alternate version of the Realsm Timeline, there isn't much Primian lore in the beginning but it will get to that...plus it expands on (my version) of the Days of Thunder. Note that I have put the timeline in a rough point form, that I have included the creation myth (that i first discussed in another thread) and that to indulge my evolution theory I have expanded the Days of Thunder by almost 20,000 years
Creation and the Primals War
( n/a years ago)
n/a DR
- One thought creates Fate, the Purpose of Existence and Time, the momentum of Fate
- Fate forges the Universe, binding it with the Balance and creating Ao to tend to the Universe and the Balance
- The Twin Sisters of Existence emerge, Kam The Bright Sister and Nire the Dark Sister
n/a DR
The universe begins to shape itself into stars, planets, comets and other celestial bodies
n/a DR
- With Ao's direction Kam turns from her sister and ignites Ataran, the Sun Ataran's light and warmth fills the universe and mortal life begins to germinate, giving birth to Ellese the Earth Mother
- Kam and Ataran's love creates Bellade, The Fair Lady
n/a DR
- Nire, in pain and rage of her sister's betrayal, flees to the darkest corner of the universe and brings forth the dark gods Karak the Dark Master, Corla the Perfect Lie, Gormauth That Which Lurks and Lorfeer the Reaper
- Nire and her spawn leave the darkness and strike and Kam, breaking the Balance
- The start of the Primals War
n/a DR
- The Primal Wars begins to unravel the universe in its chaos
- The gods Tempos and Pesh and the Elder Eternals are born from Primal Wars
n/a DR
- The Sisters mutually inflict mortal wounds and Ao enters the War to save the goddesses
- Ao ends the War and fashions the Weave to save the universe
- Ao takes the torn energies of Nike and Kam to create the goddess Myst, the Mistress of Magic and Keeper of the Weave
- Ao summons the powers to the Cynosure and gives them the Tablets of Fate and Its divine decrees
- The powers leave the universe into the Outer Planes to create their own realms
n/a DR
- The universe begins to recover from the War as the Weave heals the damage left behind, the heavenly bodies find their proper places again
- Simple life begins to thrive in the oceans and Underdark of Aber-Toril and the other planets then climbing over the planet's surface
- Aber-Toril becomes rich in plant and animal life forms and the Primal Powers turn their attention back to their universe as the first glimmer of sentient thought appear in the Forgotten Realms
- The first Fey appear in Aber-Toril
n/a DR
- The First Epoch, the Time before Time arrives and passes beyond any memory except the eldest powers
- At the rim of the Second Epoch, Aber-Toril is covered in ice and darkness with very little life from the Time before Time surviving into contemporary history
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| Kajehase |
Posted - 16 Jul 2006 : 19:25:31
The Sarrukh.
Remember, the game appeared before Serpent Kingdoms, so the leginess of the old ones in NWN is one lore-inconsistency one would have to be a real sourpuss to complain about. |
| FridayThe13th |
Posted - 16 Jul 2006 : 14:50:15
Hm, what race do the Old Ones in NWN belong to? |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 19:18:04
ancient plant race: The Adu'jas
Dragon Magazine # 317 p. 22-25
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| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 21:21:23
OK, back to the Primians
For their beginnings, I redesigned the timeline a bit, Brian R. James's "A Grand History of the Realms" compilation was a big help, especially the maps. His Atlas of the Ancient World inspired me to fix up a couple of holes in my campaign.
I’ll be posting the gritty details about (my) The Days of Thunder and the Primians in the format similar to "A Grand History of the Realms" as I am slowly bringing all of my notes together to submit to Alaundo.
In my version of ancient history “history” begins after the end of the first Epoch “The Time before Time” with an almost total ice age (The Time of Darkness and Ice). After the ice age ended (over 50,000 years before the raising of the Standing Stone) the planet recovered quickly and the evolution of sentient life peaked with hundreds of races appearing in the seas and Great Ocean, on the surface of Aber-Toril and within the Underdark. The “Ancient Past” is divided into three ages: the Days of Thunder, ending with the Tearfall (-31,000 DR), The Dawn Age, ending with the Arrival of the sun and moon elves (-24,000 DR) and The Flowering, ending with the Sundering of the planet (-17,600 DR).
I have seven major Progenitor Races, each an example of one branch of “animalia”, each kind of fauna. I feel it’s kind of cheesy to have one of each type but considering evolution and the size of Toril (surface, undersea and Underdark) it is possible. Also realize that there may have been many other “creation races” wandering around through the ages, these Progenitor Races were the strongest and most successful.
In order (first to last) of evolution, civilization and empire building these are my Creator Races, when the height of their civilization began and ended and how long did they linger until history swept them away (relatively):
The Octiphin (the Cephalopod race)
Empires: -51,000 to -38,000 DR and persisted until -35,000 DR
The Kr'Icct (the Insectile race)
Empires: -49,000 to -36,000 and persisted until -32,000 DR
The Canthodi (the Piscine race)
Empires: -44,000 to -32,000 DR and persisted until -26,000 DR
The Batrachi (the Amphibian race)
Empires: -37,000 to -31,000 and persisted until -29,000 DR
The Sarrukh (the Reptilian race)
Empires: -35,000 to -30,000 and persisted until -24,000 DR
The Primian (the Mammalian race)
Empires: -33,000 to -27,000 and persisted until -17,600 DR
The Aeree (the Avian race)
Empires: -32,000 to -29,000 and persisted until -28,000 DR
I am also mulling over the idea one more race that existed in the First Epoch; based of an ancient plant race that was introduced in Dragon Magazine (their name and the number of the magazine escape me at the moment)
Kalin
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| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 15:21:35
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Faerzress.
The Underdark radiation has its origins in the Weave. If you're going to tie the radiation to the Far Realm, you're going to need to determine how the Underdark was formed. Was it still shaped by the Weave, or by extradimensional forces from the Far Realm?
I have never really swallowed the "created by the Weave" theory...I believe if the core of Toril is a honey-comb of tunnels and caverns (and who knows what the core is like) the Weave definitely supports the Underdark and keeps the planet from collapsing into itself
I think that the Underdark, if the planet is millions of years old like Earth, was formed by dozens of factors over the millennia such as
- Volcanic/tectonic activity
- Water activity
- Planar incursion (earth elemental traffic, bubbles of elemental air and water, Far Realm warping, gates to Pandemonium and other “tunnel” planes, etc.)
- Creature tunneling (purple worms, delvers, horgar, etc.)
- Mining/tunneling by civilizations
- Divine manipulation
I also think that faerzress radiation is more of a catch-all for “alien” radiation in the alien environment of the Underdark, probably mostly formed by damage to the Weave but also perhaps by planar radiation, great magical battles (i.e. phaerimm vs sharn) and even “echoes” of the energies unleashed with the creation of the world.
Is it me or is their more faerzress the closer you get to the core? Does that explain the “alien” Underdark beings living mostly in the Lower Underdark?
Kalin
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| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 15:38:09
Faerzress.
The Underdark radiation has its origins in the Weave. If you're going to tie the radiation to the Far Realm, you're going to need to determine how the Underdark was formed. Was it still shaped by the Weave, or by extradimensional forces from the Far Realm?
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| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 15:17:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't think there's anything wrong with having Far Realm influence on creatures in the Realms... it just depends on how much influence we're talking about. We know the Far Realm still have some presence within the 3e FR cosmology, as CoS indicated. So we've got a basis to play on.
Obviously, enough influence to mark the creatures as something "alien" is appropriate -- for example, the illithids. But unless you're looking specifically to include Cthulhu-heavy elements in your Realms campaign... I'd keep the influence to a minimum.
no, not Cthulhu-heavy elements, especially the Great Old Ones...I don't think that fits in well with the either the Realms theology or cosmology...
but I have wondered about the "alien" Underdark races (phaerimm, sharn, aboleth, etc.) and their relationship with the Far Realm and their place in the Timeline of the Realms...I was thinking somewhere in the lines that pin-hole tears into the Far Realm in the Underdark that created the regions of Faerezz (sp?) radiation which mutates life and may have created many of the aberration races
Kalin
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| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 14:59:49
I don't think there's anything wrong with having Far Realm influence on creatures in the Realms... it just depends on how much influence we're talking about. We know the Far Realm still have some presence within the 3e FR cosmology, as CoS indicated. So we've got a basis to play on.
Obviously, enough influence to mark the creatures as something "alien" is appropriate -- for example, the illithids. But unless you're looking specifically to include Cthulhu-heavy elements in your Realms campaign... I'd keep the influence to a minimum. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 14:15:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Evolution through influence from the Far Realm may not be the way to go. The problem with that interpretation suggests that creatures touched by the Far Realm may no longer subscribe to the notion of Prime Material reality. If they've been affected by the nature of the Far Realm too much, they may not be able to reproduce in the classic sense, nor have the opportunity to pass their mutated aspects on to the next generation.
That is very true, I didn't think of it that way...I forgot of how strong the "unnaturalness/alien to our world" theme the Far Realm has
I was thinking more of the line of "radioactive" mutant kinda thing (like generations of "The Hills Have Eyes" mutants), only using Far Realm radiation/pollution to as the cause
Kalin
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| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 10:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
4) Created/Mutated/Altered : a broad sweep of any race that already existed in the Realms that was either created on purpose (usually my magical breeding or engineering), by chance (curses, Underdark radiation, Far Realm warping, etc.), cross-breeding or more rarely by natural mutation. This example can also blur with other examples. The yuan-ti, beholder-kin, half-elves/orcs/dragons/etc., the drow, gray dwarves and grimlock are all examples.
Evolution through influence from the Far Realm may not be the way to go. The problem with that interpretation suggests that creatures touched by the Far Realm may no longer subscribe to the notion of Prime Material reality. If they've been affected by the nature of the Far Realm too much, they may not be able to reproduce in the classic sense, nor have the opportunity to pass their mutated aspects on to the next generation.
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| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 16:01:07
I’d also like to add my view on the origins of other races, hopefully it’ll help
I see five types of sentients in the Realms:
1) Natural Evolution : the Creator Races that I named in my campaign “The Children of Ellese” (the ancient Primian name for the Earthmother).
2) Divine Seeding : as detailed in Planescape originally, gods/powers require faith to survive and the Prime Material Plane is the richest source of faith. Some gods “seed” worlds with their “children” races to increase their own power, the younger the world the better (less competition). I see the first elves and dwarves, the giants and dragons and the northern (mountain) orcs as seeded races.
3) Interlopers : either interplanetary (outer space i.e. spelljamming) or multiplanar (gates, portals, conduits, etc.) these races arrived in the Realms as immigrants or invaders. This method may blur with #2 divine seeding but a true interloper was not placed directly into the world but arrived by accident or my mortal plans. Beholders, illithids, the original moon and gold elves would be interlopers.
4) Created/Mutated/Altered : a broad sweep of any race that already existed in the Realms that was either created on purpose (usually my magical breeding or engineering), by chance (curses, Underdark radiation, Far Realm warping, etc.), cross-breeding or more rarely by natural mutation. This example can also blur with other examples. The yuan-ti, beholder-kin, half-elves/orcs/dragons/etc., the drow, gray dwarves and grimlock are all examples.
5) Misc./Unknown : some “races” like the Fey and elemental races kind of just “appear” in the Prime, the Fey where ever there is life and the elementals where there are strong and pure regions of their native element. Neither “race” normally interacts with the rest of the world too much but there are exceptions (like the Yuir Wood, the genies of Calimshan were more interlopers), the Fey more so than elementals. Undead could technically (loosely) be associated in this category.
Kalin |
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