| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Saegis |
Posted - 11 Mar 2009 : 20:28:14
After having read through the majority of the FR supplement "Lost Empires of Faerun" I started pondering the possibilities of schools or even universities within Faerun dedicated to archaeology.
If the Realms can be guilty of one thing, I would say it is the abundance of history it contains. While Lost Empires of Faerun was informative there was nothing within it in regards to organizations interested in the archaeology of the Realms. Has anyone perchance stumbled upon a scroll or other piece of information that might light my darkened path? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 18:10:45
There are academics and sagely experts of history; they could probably expound for hours over their preciously exhumed bits of broken pottery and useless trinkets. I recall a small number of 2E class kits - mostly scattered throughout the various Complete Handbooks - which specialize in guarding/protecting or seeking out lost lore and artifacts from ancient ruins. It stands to reason that if these professions exist then there must also be organizations dedicated to the same.
Adventurers are ideally suited for Indiana Jones inspired archeaology, whether they be motivated by their own passions or those of an employer. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:46:01
Wait, aren't those one and the same? LOL, I kid. That seems to be SOP for most adventurers, but I like to see an occasional explorer who is there for professional curiosity, not treasure hunting. Maybe all he leaves with are a few notes penned from the runes on a wall, or an ancient tome that might otherwise molder away and be lost. Does anyone besides El ever PUT stuff BACK in old tombs and ruins? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 13:28:05
Shade has been doing a little recycling too, notably the (sunken/floating) city of Sakkors. Probably for the same reasons as the elves: they really don't have a lot of territory or anywhere else to go, and they wanted to reclaim some powerful ancient magic (a mythallar in Sakkors) they wanted to use (and wanted nobody else to find).
I can easily imagine ruins being systematically stripped and scavenged away, the most valuable (and portable) resources taken first ... magical items and lore, gold and treasure, then copper and lead and iron, then marble and precious woods, then common wood and stone, then finally (when nothing else of real value remains) the land itself. Of course there are little problems like the occupants of the ancient ruins (monsters, undead, guardians, even the original living owners), and magical and physical traps and alarms ... only fools and idiots brave adventurers normally dare to explore such places. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 02:43:01
I really like the idea of searching for lost cities to discover their secrets and perhaps reclaim them, myself. With so many ruined cities and such, one has to wonder if anyone has thought of restoring them to be used again. Elves have done it with some of their ancient ruined settlements (Myth Drannor, that one in Blackstaff), so why not others? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 19:08:30
I actually don't see a lot of "modern" archeaology being viable within the Realms. The vast majority of physical artifacts and ruins are largely ignored; they tend to attract only monsters, adventurers, and treasure/glory seekers. In short, they're not "interesting" unless they have some magic, or economic value, or special social/religious significance. Realms style archeaology is probably more loot-and-pillage Indiana Jones style than about academic research and preservation; people bust open the hidden chambers of the pyramid so they can kill the mummy and take his gold. There aren't many museums and collections of such stuff, outside of whatever trinkets are kept by eclectic weirdos like Elminster. Unlike our world, the dead of the Realms can be quite active and territorial, plus the ancients had access to all sorts of automated defenses which still work.
Though there are probably small groups dedicated to study, analysis, and preservation of ancient things. If not for the reasons above (greed), then to control or ward off "dangerous" and "forbidden" things for safety and security. I doubt their approaches would resemble our dig sites ... they have access to all manner of divinations, scrying (past, present, and future), Detect Whatever, Legend Lore, Speak With Dead, Locate Object, X-Ray Vision, dowsing, magical and psionic psychometry, etc. They can even use Wish and Time Travel or communicate with divine/extraplanar sources (or ancient guardians) who have firsthand experience of the past. There are of course local individuals (like elves, dragons, the Chosen, and liches) who may also have such firsthand experience.
Whatever "archeaology" is practiced would probably concentrate on written records, combing through them to rediscover lost magics and secrets (or references to same) ... worshippers of Denier, Helm, and Oghma seem like obvious practitioners, so of course places like Candlekeep would be prominent in this regard. Other groups would probably be mere handfuls of like-minded sagely erudites and treasure/glory seekers, not large scale organizations. |
| Darkheyr |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 14:00:14
Wouldn't know of any canon organizations, sadly. I myself used to play a human wizard on an NWN server some time ago. Her fields of speciality were mostly Netheril, and through that some degree of interest in Delzoun and similar related realms. The server sported The Fork (the road crossing in the Silver Marches, south of Adbar), where over time a settlement began to form, including a small academy where she started teaching history and archeology among other fields, together with some other wizards. There was also an expedition or two into the Anauroch.
Entirely non-canon of course, but I figure archeology is more along those lines in the Realms. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 07:27:14
A "Search" here of "archeology" and "archaeologists" yields more than a page of earlier discussions, including the 2004 "Questions for Ed Greenwood." Elsewhere we have also discussed a question of mine regarding the "shade hunter" prestige class from Champions of Ruin, who are hunters of Netherese artifacts and enemies of the Shades (hence the class name).
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 00:54:21
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
To go back to topic, I never saw much of archaeology in the Realms. Oh, sure, you have your Manshoons pillaging ancient tombs and ruins, but I never felt that there were that many individuals heading to those sites just to see 'how they lived' back then.
Interestingly enough, my most vivid memories of archeologists and archeological excavation sites were from the CRPGs (ie. Baldur's Gate). |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 23:05:30
there are others.
the church of cyric
The Cult of the shattered peaks |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 22:52:22
Zhents, naturally.
They are always trying to take-over some one else's digs and get the good stuff. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 22:26:24
-Now who is going to be the nazi group? Gotta have a nazi group you know. One that wants to use the tomes and artifacts for some super nefarious plot. 
BRIMSTONE |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 16:00:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. I just think that there isn't enough of them in the Realms to make archaeology a bonafide science in the Realms. Nothing pleases me more than said scholar hiring a group of adventurers to seek out a vault, ignoring the magical artifacts that lie within, looking for a first edition treatise on the history of an ancient kingdom to 'complete his collection'. 
Which is ideal for both a plothook and a 'patron-type' for lower-level groups.
"Oh... you guys can keep all the shiney stuff... I just want this moldy copy of Secret Loves of the Obarskyrs for my Romance-Chapbook series."  |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 15:58:05
quote:
Originally posted by old man
This makes me think of Artemis Cimber (?) the guy from the Ring of Winter. The details are a bit fuzzy as I haven't read the story in quite a while, but didn't he make a stop at some sort of adventurers type house?
It was the Society of Stalwart Venturers (I think), in Cormyr.
For that matter, the Harpers used to be described as a group interested in preserving and protecting knowledge of the past. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 12:36:01
quote:
Originally posted by Saegis
Maybe I'll do just that Wooly, there's nothing wrong with "borrowing" from a pre-existing group and adding some twists.
As for the idea that archaeology is only used to gain power, it does make a lot of sense to rob ancient tombs or wizard towers to add to ones collection. But I do love the addle-brained scholar archetype who values knowledge over power.
Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. I just think that there isn't enough of them in the Realms to make archaeology a bonafide science in the Realms. Nothing pleases me more than said scholar hiring a group of adventurers to seek out a vault, ignoring the magical artifacts that lie within, looking for a first edition treatise on the history of an ancient kingdom to 'complete his collection'. |
| Saegis |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 07:19:35
Maybe I'll do just that Wooly, there's nothing wrong with "borrowing" from a pre-existing group and adding some twists.
As for the idea that archaeology is only used to gain power, it does make a lot of sense to rob ancient tombs or wizard towers to add to ones collection. But I do love the addle-brained scholar archetype who values knowledge over power. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 07:05:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by old man
This makes me think of Artemis Cimber (?) the guy from the Ring of Winter. The details are a bit fuzzy as I haven't read the story in quite a while, but didn't he make a stop at some sort of adventurers type house?
The Society of Stalwart Adventurers, I believe it was called. It was more a club for adventurers and wannabe adventurers than any kind of historical society -- the records and such that they had were mostly incidental, I think. They may have had a lot of books and info in their libraries, but most of it would be what prior adventurers (who may or may not be the most educated or most observant sorts) had done and seen, and info gathered on particular topics by specifically interested members.
The Society also features in the "Laughter in the Flames" tale by James Lowder in the Realms of Infamy anthology. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 06:55:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Team Banzai
Was always a shame in my mind that they had to write out Dr. Banzai from canon, when he was the first one to put an Axe in his 'mechs hand...
My flip comment certainly seems to have generated some fun responses... 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
To go back to topic, I never saw much of archaeology in the Realms. Oh, sure, you have your Manshoons pillaging ancient tombs and ruins, but I never felt that there were that many individuals heading to those sites just to see 'how they lived' back then.
Yeah, that's a good point. There might be small groups specifically interested in how life was lived of old, but most people and groups are going to be more interested in the money and magic of those older peoples. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 06:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by old man
This makes me think of Artemis Cimber (?) the guy from the Ring of Winter. The details are a bit fuzzy as I haven't read the story in quite a while, but didn't he make a stop at some sort of adventurers type house?
The Society of Stalwart Adventurers, I believe it was called. It was more a club for adventurers and wannabe adventurers than any kind of historical society -- the records and such that they had were mostly incidental, I think. They may have had a lot of books and info in their libraries, but most of it would be what prior adventurers (who may or may not be the most educated or most observant sorts) had done and seen, and info gathered on particular topics by specifically interested members. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 06:47:45
quote:
Originally posted by Saegis
Markustay, I was caught up in the magelord prestige class and reading about some particular lost human kingdoms (Athalantar, naturally) that I completely skipped the Olin Gisir (Olin Gisiae). Upon perusal of the PrC I have to admit that it really fits my idea of the sage wizard within the Realms, a group of wizards that dedicate themselves to arcane history and Realms history. On the other hand it seems to be Elf and Half-elf exclusive. Thank you for that bit of info.
Drop the racial requirements, rename the group and maybe tweak its history a bit, and you've got the historical/archaelogical society you need.  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 06:46:52
Team Banzai
Was always a shame in my mind that they had to write out Dr. Banzai from canon, when he was the first one to put an Axe in his 'mechs hand...
To go back to topic, I never saw much of archaeology in the Realms. Oh, sure, you have your Manshoons pillaging ancient tombs and ruins, but I never felt that there were that many individuals heading to those sites just to see 'how they lived' back then. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 06:27:21
and the Northwind Highlanders |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 06:11:44
There was also the "Shade Hunter" PrC from Champions of Ruin too. It's set up as a 'treasure-seeker/archaeologist' type as I recall.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
the church of Oghma would employ arcane/ loremasters.
but what about the Kell Hounds, how would they fit into the realms????
Or even Cranston Snord's Irregulars?  |
| old man |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 03:13:48
This makes me think of Artemis Cimber (?) the guy from the Ring of Winter. The details are a bit fuzzy as I haven't read the story in quite a while, but didn't he make a stop at some sort of adventurers type house? |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 03:04:38
the church of Oghma would employ arcane/ loremasters.
but what about the Kell Hounds, how would they fit into the realms???? |
| Saegis |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 01:53:26
Markustay, I was caught up in the magelord prestige class and reading about some particular lost human kingdoms (Athalantar, naturally) that I completely skipped the Olin Gisir (Olin Gisiae). Upon perusal of the PrC I have to admit that it really fits my idea of the sage wizard within the Realms, a group of wizards that dedicate themselves to arcane history and Realms history. On the other hand it seems to be Elf and Half-elf exclusive. Thank you for that bit of info.
Come to think of it I would not be surprised if certain faithful of Oghma were to be found prying the secrets of the past from the ruins of Faerun. I'll have to add the religion of the Lord of Knowledge to my ever-growing list of research. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 01:03:51
Propbably Imaskari, then - too old to be Netherease.
Maybe they were trying get some Indians, to go with those Mesopotamians? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 01:01:23
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
This is pretty far from being on topic, but just today I was in communication with a staff archeologist at the Kentucky Archeological Survey who identified a piece I dug up while I was tearing down a fence in our back yard. It's a spear point that's between three and six THOUSAND years old!
Wow, that's amazing. A bit humbling, too, when you think about it. |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 00:44:32
This is pretty far from being on topic, but just today I was in communication with a staff archeologist at the Kentucky Archeological Survey who identified a piece I dug up while I was tearing down a fence in our back yard. It's a spear point that's between three and six THOUSAND years old! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 00:18:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No. Helm has it!
*score*
Wow. A horrible, cross-game pun. I salute you, sir!
Of course, that makes me wonder how the Gray Death Legion is going to factor in...  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Mar 2009 : 23:36:22
The Elven Organization is in LEoF, which is why I didn't look it up - I had assumed you saw it since you mentioned that source.
They are the Olin Gisir ('Secret Keepers') - not exactly an Archaelogical sociey, but close-enough in Elven terms (after all, an Elf in a thousand-year old dig might just be looking for his own baby rattle).
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Additionally, I've also been establishing a Seeker society [based on a similar collective in the Goliath Scorpion Clan in Classic BattleTech]. They use a narcotic called necrosia to induce vision-quests that help direct their searches for long forgotten relics of the ancient Star League. I've yet to determine a suitable Realms-equivalent for necrosia however.
Might I suggest Sponge (Wellworld), Spice (Dune), or Krrf (Thieves World)?
I use them all, and a few of my own. I used to have a comprehensive list of Fantasy/SciFi drugs for use in my games, and I remember some folks thought I spent way too much time on that subject. There was one in the Jack Vance novels as well, although it's name escapes me; that might be more appropriate, given it's ties to D&D.
I had one of my own called Manstash, which was created by the High Elves of old, in order to keep humans ignorant and docile (it only worked on humans). They don't call them HIGH Elves for nothing. |
