| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Naeryndam |
Posted - 25 Mar 2008 : 15:31:37
Happy Easter for those who celebrated it. Halruaa is a nation of mages, they are quite possibly more powerful than Thay, especially nowadays. I think Halruaa is overdue for a new series or at least some info as to what has gone on there over the last 150 years. With their ancestors from Netheril returning (Shade), Mystra dead, and the Spellplague, what has happened to this country? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wyvernspur |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 04:21:56
I miss posted this some where else but about the survival of the Halruuans.
We are informed in "The Shining South." that the leadership of Halruua was predominately Diviners as such it is concievable that many Halruuan's could have survived the incident by leaving when receiving the warnings about the Spellplague. True some may have balked at the idea but most if they had the means would have left. Remember it was this same time of cataclysmic event that brought down Netheril and prior to that the predecessors to Halruua flew south and established a safe haven. I don't think it's beyond them to survive this. Perhaps they hook up with the Nimbralens(Spelling?) if this kingdom wasn't also blasted off the map.
Anyway I think Halruuan sky pirates sound very cool despite the fact that halruua was destroyed.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:18:40
LOL
I'm wondering now if the 'blasted crater' that was once Halruua (and now most likely filled with water) wil be known as the "Hal Ruins" in 4e.  |
| khorne |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 10:53:01
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You forgot to mention the kingdoms of Genasi and Warlocks, and the addition of the 'Mournlands' and 'Spellscars' (Dragonmarks)to FR.
I figure as long as you were at it, I'd give you some more rope.
Oh gods, I forgot about those. "Hangs himself" |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 02:46:33
quote:
Originally posted by Nightbreeze
Well, as I am sure many people think, NIMG (not in MY game).
That's what I think, yes. |
| Nightbreeze |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 20:11:28
Well, as I am sure many people think, NIMG (not in MY game). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Apr 2008 : 03:43:31
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Wait, wait, wait. This can't possibly be the first time someone has pointed this out. I mean, next you're going to tell that no one's mentioned that Magic of Faerun states that "if Mystra were to die and the Weave collapse, the Shadow Weave would persist." (MoF, p. 10).
I mean, I've been away from paying any attention to the 4E for about 6 months, because I realized I was just making myself annoyed. But please, it can't be true that the best they've been able to come up with (and I'm not blaming you, ShadezofDis!) is that the canon needs to be disregarded. Can it?
Or are traveling too far afield from Halruaa?
Oh, that's been pointed out. And later lore that says the opposite has also been pointed out. And Rich Baker declared that the newer lore was wrong -- despite the fact that for years, newer lore has trumped older lore. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 20:53:02
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That made me laugh. 
So what you are saying is that the Spellplague was being controlled by a group of highly-chaotic, Far-Realmsian, Psuedo-natural, Cthulhu-esque entities?
Yes, the folks at Wizards.
In their defense, they're just trying to show us how the "Far-Realm mind" works. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 20:50:36
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That made me laugh.
So what you are saying is that the Spellplague was being controlled by a group of highly-chaotic, Far-Realmsian, Psuedo-natural, Cthulhu-esque entities?
Yes, the folks at Wizards. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 19:21:25
I was away for a few days, but others have the right of it. If the Universe = the Internet, then once you 'upload' a spell into existance, it will exist unless the Universe itself 'crashes'. Just like files you have stored on the Net still exist if your PC (or Mac) crashes. The internet (magic) itself would have to fail for that to happen, not just the Weave (GUI).
Psuedo-magical items are dependent upon various 'interfaces' to work. They are like local programs that run only on your PC - your computer crashes, so do those proggies. True magical devices, like I said, are 'uploaded', and therefore no longer depend upon the local interfeace for continual existance. In the case of the Netherease, most of their magic was dependent upon their Mythallars (as another poster noted), which REQUIRED the Weave to operate. Those spells and devices were 'running locally'. The same goes for Drow Items, which require the presence of Faerzress to work* (they are described as another example of psuedo-magical mdevices in the 2e Momsterous Manual). I'm sure their are other examples (totemic magic?) that only work locally.
Either way, the Halruaans learned from their mistakes, and shied away from such 'quick & easy' solutions after the fall of Netheril.
Also, Midnight changed up some of the rules when she ascended (as did her predessesor), so that could explain some of the other anomalies of what is tied to the Weave, and what is tied directly to Raw Magic. Gods like Bane learn from their mistakes, and he could have made sure that Bane Liches would not be affected by the Weave failing in the future.
* This, I understand, has also been retconned, and now Faerzress is some sort of 'Drow catnip'. 
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
It's under the control of WotC.
That made me laugh.
So what you are saying is that the Spellplague was being controlled by a group of highly-chaotic, Far-Realmsian, Psuedo-natural, Cthulhu-esque entities? |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 15:39:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Nope, since Azuth was sent elsewhere by the Sellplague, and, in yet another burst of illogic*, the Chosen apparently get hosed by the Sellplague, as well.
*Point 1: The Sellplague "flows around" intensely magical effects like mythals and such... But what's more intensely magical than the essence of the goddess of magic?
Could be the raw magic vs the Weave type jam. SP effecting the Weave and not effecting, directly, raw magic effects (effecting in an indirect manner though)...
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Point 2: Baneliches contained some of Bane's essence. They were unaffected by his death. The Chosen of Mystra were only affected by the death of Mystra 1 by the fact that magic itself was wonky. And yet, the death of Mystra 2 somehow has a seriously adverse affect on them.
This one could be part of how Cyric killed Mystra 2. In order to kill her and prevent her from "rebooting" he may have initiated an attack that burned through Mystra's divine essence.
It's a weak explanation and it might not work, per say, but it's something.  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 15:17:25
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
The more I hear about the Spellplague, the more it sounds like something that was actually under someone's control. Selective destruction, almost genocidal accuracy...
It's under the control of WotC. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 15:10:50
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
Anyhow, I'd chalk that up the Azuth, the Chosen, etc all working to try and keep the Weave "functioning" as long as possible.
Cheap excuse but I think it could work.
Nope, since Azuth was sent elsewhere by the Sellplague, and, in yet another burst of illogic*, the Chosen apparently get hosed by the Sellplague, as well.
*Point 1: The Sellplague "flows around" intensely magical effects like mythals and such... But what's more intensely magical than the essence of the goddess of magic?
Point 2: Baneliches contained some of Bane's essence. They were unaffected by his death. The Chosen of Mystra were only affected by the death of Mystra 1 by the fact that magic itself was wonky. And yet, the death of Mystra 2 somehow has a seriously adverse affect on them. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 15:05:38
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
4. I'll leave out that when Mystryl and Mystra died, the effects on the Weave were instantaneous. But when Midnight/Mystra dies, the Weave slowly unravels? 
You're trying to apply logic to the Sellplague again. I've already given up on that quest, after noting that the Sellplague had effects the gods couldn't pull off, but could still be warded away by enough mortal magic. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 15:04:32
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
1. Except that with the Spellplague, here's where this metaphor starts to break down. If you write a program for Windows (the Weave), you can't just load it onto a Mac (4E magic system - and don't attack me, I'm a Mac fan!) and have it run just fine. It needs to be recompiled, or, if its different enough, completely rewritten.
The Weave wasn't a Mac to PC conversion though, it was a way to handle the raw code (0s n 1s) in an easier manner.
In fact, I'm sure there were ways to bypass the Weave and access raw magic (aside from Spellfire) but such techniques were exceedingly rare.
Basically, windows crashed but your PC still works so you need to figure out a new way (4e magic) to operate your windowsless PC.
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan2. The 3E FRCS and Magic of Faerun claim that dead magic fields work as the antimagic field spell, which does negate the magic of an enchanted item, which would include such things as skyships. I realize that this is not what 2E said. If a dead magic field is the absence of the Weave, shouldn't the skyships, et al. no longer function, just as if they were in an antimagic field?
That sure is a wrench in the works, I don't know if this has ever been addressed.
Well, just re-read anti-magic field and depending on the timing of things the suppression of the skyships enchantment ...
Ok, read the bit in Magic of Faerun. I'd have to say that lore needs to be disregarded to make any sense of this, could be that I'll think of a work around but it doesn't seem too reasonable.
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
4. I'll leave out that when Mystryl and Mystra died, the effects on the Weave were instantaneous. But when Midnight/Mystra dies, the Weave slowly unravels?
Does it? I have only been glancing at the details of 4e stuff so I tend to forget some of the stuff.
Anyhow, I'd chalk that up the Azuth, the Chosen, etc all working to try and keep the Weave "functioning" as long as possible.
Cheap excuse but I think it could work. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 13:31:34
quote:
Originally by capnvan
2. The death of Midnight/Mystra would, presumably, bring down all the skyships as well, right? But with no reboot (another one of those things I look forward to seeing explained), why don't they suffer the same fate as the majority of Netherese cities. Or (despite an alternative MarkusTay has pointed out) even if they were on the ground, why are they still functional?
Nope, since skyships do not rely on Mythallars they do not rely on the Weave per say. The Weave was used to enchant the item (write the program) but now that it's written it no longer relies upon the Weave for its functionality. (I'm not totally familiar with the sky ships, so I'm not sure what gets enchanted)
Well, that's my take on it anyhow.
quote:
Originally by capnvan
I'm just not sure that's consistent with the way it's been described before. For a lot of the lore I've read, it's seemed that the Weave is synonymous with magic.
I think it's pretty consistent. You could probably find places where it is contradicted but that's just the nature of the beast.
quote:
Originally by capnvan
And, of course, part of me is wondering if there really is any.
Don't look at these as a lack in the setting, look at these as an opportunity to incorporate something that's just insane. (See Velsharoon cult theory above ) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 00:11:15
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Alright, I can see that as one definition of what the Weave is. (And again, I haven't been paying much attention for about six months, so pardon me if...) But here's my question: When Karsus killed Mystryl, didn't the Weave collapse and all magic cease to function - most notably the flying cities of Netheril, where the magic had presumably been "uploaded" to the universe, as it were?
Is this one of those, "Well, when Mystra came into being and brought the Weave back together, and changed the rules of magic so that Netherese uber-magic wouldn't work anymore, this was also one of the changes she implemented, but we didn't feel like telling you before/it's our ham-handed way of making it true?"
The thing is, most of the cities weren't high enough and were thus shattered rock by the time Mystra 2.0 rebooted everything. Those cities had already finished falling, so there was nothing she could do for them. The three she saved were high enough that there was time left before they hit the ground. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 00:09:37
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Alright, I can see that as one definition of what the Weave is. (And ...
before/it's our ham-handed way of making it true?"
Nope, that actually makes sense in the way I think of the Netherese Mythallar and their relationship to the Weave.
The Mythallars, AFAIK, were constantly tapping the Weave to empower the quasi-magical items the Netherese relied upon. So when the Weave collapsed the Mythallars and the Mythallars were empowering the flying city magic.
The Mythallars, while convenient, did have a pretty big drawback, they used the Weave so hard that it actually damaged the Weave. Well, that's my understanding anyhow.
Anyhow, when Mystra 1.0 ascended she did something that stopped everyone from accessing that kind of magic anymore. Or, at least that's what it was until the epic stuff came out, then it was that it could work, but it was terribly difficult to do (which does make sense).
However, why Halruaa went boom is sorta confusing. I mean, it could be a pretty cool gambit to. . . well. . . is Velsharoon still around?
If so, this could be a good hook for him. Assume that he had a underground group in Halruaa, seems like a pretty good place for him to be (seeing as Tam is Zulkier of Necromancy). He just plays it safe and watches, perhaps somehow getting wind of the plot to kill Mystra. If he had a decent cult following, with some talented Halruaans, who knew the Weave would collapse. . . well, that sounds like opportunity to me.
It'd take a lot of doing, I can't really see it taking shape right this second but there's a lot of folks out there who could get wind of the Mystra assassination plot so I can't see it going undiscovered and really believe it.
I'd sorta love for it to be Mask, personally. I don't really know what his angle would be though. Good way to get Cyric out of the way though (his finding out but not really wanting to stop it). Perhaps he sold the info to Velsharoon. |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 23:38:05
Huh. I always thought of the Weave as a sort of very open-ended Force.
Regardless, Halruaa's definitely my favorite nation, and I kind of hate to see it go Chernobyl like that. I think that the idea of it becoming sort of a magical wasteland is actually kind of cool, though; I just wish that the ENTIRE nation didn't have to 'splode.
The more I hear about the Spellplague, the more it sounds like something that was actually under someone's control. Selective destruction, almost genocidal accuracy...
Does the same thing happen to Thay? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 21:15:12
Those airships likely weren't fast enough to outrun the effects of the Sellplague, either. It's also possible that the Sellplague interfered with the levitation spells that kept the ships airborne. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 21:07:35
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The fact that there are at least five very large, well known passes, not to mention the entire country has an airship fleet and a large sea-born navy, and has more mages capable of casting teleport spells then any other country in the world....
Why, exactly were they trapped and powerless? 
I wouldn't count on the teleport happening when Mystra had just died. The navy might have helped those directly on the coast, but I'm betting that the more land bound people were facing issues that would have prevented a mass exodus to the coast. The passes were probably heavily warded with magics to stop invaders. Lord only knows what happened with those wards. Did people start trying to evacuate only to start finding themselves running over what would be effectively land mines? Did some of the explosions go supernova and cause collapses blocking off passes? Did some of the spells summon creatures that took up residence in the pass and kill all that tried to pass?
All valid, and logical questions, and thus, in all likelihood, completely ignored because stuff is so cool and new now. Oh, and it was the S(p)(m)ellplaque...didn't you read the memo? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 20:37:56
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The fact that there are at least five very large, well known passes, not to mention the entire country has an airship fleet and a large sea-born navy, and has more mages capable of casting teleport spells then any other country in the world....
Why, exactly were they trapped and powerless?
I wouldn't count on the teleport happening when Mystra had just died. The navy might have helped those directly on the coast, but I'm betting that the more land bound people were facing issues that would have prevented a mass exodus to the coast. The passes were probably heavily warded with magics to stop invaders. Lord only knows what happened with those wards. Did people start trying to evacuate only to start finding themselves running over what would be effectively land mines? Did some of the explosions go supernova and cause collapses blocking off passes? Did some of the spells summon creatures that took up residence in the pass and kill all that tried to pass? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 01:49:28
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have one completely non-canon 'survivor' Enclave IMG, and I made sure that its creation process allowed it to be flat on both sides... just to avoid all the weird 'tippiness' that happens when one settles to the ground.
Which makes me wonder - How the heck did Mystra do it?
I guess she placed them inside deep lakes or valleys... or maybe even in a 'hole' to the Underdark. Now there's a thought - using an enclave to plug a hole in the planet... <insert evil hand-rubbing smiley>
Well, it could be that the survivor Enclaves did end up in water bodies and/or deep depressions in the land later. But during the initial Fall, I suspect it wouldn't have been totally outside the realm of possibility to actually see the survivor Enclaves floating, temporarily, just above the surface, and deep in the embrace of a specially crafted section of the restored Weave that could maintain the Enclaves for a time. At least, until Mystra 1.0 was able to properly re-incorporate herself and fashion the Weave in such a way that would make "landing" the survivor Enclaves, possible.
Of course, it may also be that neither Mystra or the Weave were strong enough to handle this type of situation immediately after Karsus made his move. In which case, the survivor Enclaves were protected in some other unrevealed way. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 21:00:14
I described the Weave to be very much like a computer GUI - It's not as robust as directly programming to the CPU's instruction set, but it is MUCH simpler to work with (User-friendly). Now, when you create a file using Windows (the GUI), and upload it to the Internet, that file remains in existance, even if your home computer crashes. The same exact thing happens when you use the weave's interface - once you cast the spell, it 'uploads' to the universe, and remains there, regardless of what happens to the Spellcaster or his interface.
BTW - The Shadow Weave runs on a Mac...
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I doubt any Netherese enclaves were grounded when Karsus cast his Ultimate Mistake spell. There was no reason (or place!) to ground them.
QFT.
Its kind of hard to land an upside-down mountain top. 
I have one completely non-canon 'survivor' Enclave IMG, and I made sure that its creation process allowed it to be flat on both sides... just to avoid all the weird 'tippiness' that happens when one settles to the ground.
Which makes me wonder - How the heck did Mystra do it?
I guess she placed them inside deep lakes or valleys... or maybe even in a 'hole' to the Underdark. Now there's a thought - using an enclave to plug a hole in the planet... <insert evil hand-rubbing smiley>
Won't adventures be suprised as all hell when they are investigating a Netherease ruin, and they come to the bottom, and its inhabited by Drow... or maybe even Netherease Half-Drow... |
| turox |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 19:52:10
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
I am curious to see how the designers are planning on getting rid of the Weave but not those enchanted items that relied on the power of the Weave to function.
Let me see if I recall this correctly.
The weave is just an interface when an item is created. The creator uses the weave to put the power into the item. Once the item is created then it draws its power directly from the source and doesnt use the weave anymore to do that. So once an item has been created it will still function normally even if the weave was no longer working
That was a few months ago and I am no longer keeping up to date with 4e so if that has changed Im not sure anymore.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 19:20:22
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I believe he is talking about Skyships here, not cities. I had always assumed, beside the ones in those three cities (and perhaps Shade and Selūnarra), there were probably quite a few that were 'grounded' at that moment, getting supplies for the Sky-cities, or serving as part of the military (most of which was based on the ground).
Even with US's humongous Airforce, I doubt more then 10% of the Planes are in the air at any one time.
Yeah, but by referring to Netheril, it made it look like he was referring to the way some enclaves landed safely and others did not.
I doubt any Netherese enclaves were grounded when Karsus cast his Ultimate Mistake spell. There was no reason (or place!) to ground them. They had a variety of magical means they could use for transporting stuff up and down, and they certainly weren't shy about magic use. And unlike the aircraft of the US Air Force (or anyone else's armed services), the enclaves were specifically designed to be in the air 24/10 (not 24/7, since Faerūnian weeks are 10 days long), 365 days a year, and they didn't have to land for maintenance, supplies, or allowing the pilot to unfold from the cramped cockpit and run to the nearest bathroom. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 18:59:09
I believe he is talking about Skyships here, not cities. I had always assumed, beside the ones in those three cities (and perhaps Shade and Selūnarra), there were probably quite a few that were 'grounded' at that moment, getting supplies for the Sky-cities, or serving as part of the military (most of which was based on the ground).
Even with the U.S.'s humongous Airforce, I doubt more then 10% of the Planes are in the air at any one time. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 18:04:39
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I would assume this will be similar to Netheril, with some skyships falling to destruction and others falling safely.
All the Netherese enclaves fell, save for the two that had left the Realms. The three that survived were caught by Mystra 1.0. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 15:58:38
Those were the ones that were 'out of town' when the Spellplague struck?
After all, we know that the Smellplague was very selective about what it destrioyed and what it didn't.
I'm fairly certain that Shar made some sort of deal with Tymora, because amazingly enough nothing with the word 'shadow' in it was harmed at all. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 15:54:39
I would assume this will be similar to Netheril, with some skyships falling to destruction and others falling safely. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 03 Apr 2008 : 14:24:46
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Quick question, because I haven't been paying all that much attention recently:
If all the magic in Halruaa is going off at once, and one assumes that there would have been plenty of destructive magic on the skyships themselves (if only for protection), how is it that they're supposed to survive the "Cataclysm"?
We don't know yet--there isn't much detail available yet.
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