| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 21 Apr 2007 : 01:28:59
What would Wizards have to provide on there website for you to give them money?
I would pay a monthly subscription for the following every month
Week 1: Volos Guide to Faerun by Eric Boyd (As seen in recent Dragons)
Week 2: Faiths of Faerun by Tom Costa (A pox on Paizo for shutting down Toms articles and then giving the format to Greyhawk!)
Week 3: Cities of Faerun by Ed Greenwood (You know it occurs to me that there currently 3 FR city articles floating in the ether: Eds 2nd Cities of Faerun article, Eric Boyds City of Wyrmshadow and Darrien Draedars Phlan article)
Week 4: "Something crunchy" (this article would have new feats, Affiliations and Presitige class specfic to the forgottn realms that dont fit in any of the other articles)
Each weeks article would have to be around the equivelant of 4 A4 pages of content |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 20:00:34
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
What, pay for online info?
It is unlikely offering everything they had over a few years would not be good enough for me to provide payment information, that could be "misplaced"
I'm inclined to agree. I don't buy every issue of Dungeon or Dragon, but when I want an issue, I'll take a long trip to the nearest game store or buy a copy on eBay, because I want hard copy to consult before or during a game. I can hardly say, "Excuse me, players, I just realized that I need to look something up, so I have to leave the room , boot up my computer, and then find what I need." Boy, oh boy! Doesn't that just lend itself to smooth game management! Nothing says, "I'm a competent DM who knows what he's doing," quite like leaving the game for ten or fifteen minutes to look up one bloody fact.
I have enough difficulty looking up specific facts in the (almost all unindexed) books from Wizards; I'm not going to stop the game and go into another room to look up anything -- I'll just make up something on the spot rather than (A) appear unprepared and (B) prolonging a break in the rhythm of the game.
I'm disinclined to pay online, too. It's too easy for hackers to break into corporate files and steal customer information (as happened last month to T. J. Maxx).
As for Paizo -- without the two magazines, what are they offering they we can't buy from some other vendor or from a product's manufacturer?
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| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 20:43:49
>>Spoken like a man that lives in Florida . . .
Well, I'm from Picayune, MS.. where the eye of hurricane Katrina passed over my house. Some people waited till the last second there before reacting too, because they kept saying it wasn't going to hit and it wasn't going to be a category 5. Boy, it sure messed over some people who weren't prepared for the world of mess coming there way.
That being said, I understand people railing at WotC for not revealing some more information. Quite frankly, my initial thoughts are that I won't pay for any online content either. I've yet to hear anything about what the content will be like, and I stare at a computer screen at work and when I play MMORPG's or my tv when I'm watching my shows. If I don't want to go blind, I need to stop staring at screens. However, I'm backlogged on my novels and backlogged on my issues of dungeon magazine, so I guess I'll catch up there for a while. And when those run out, guess I'll start going outside and gardening or building something. |
| Rory |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 03:17:15
quote:
That's the problem though - we don't know what's coming, and people are not reassured by this. It seems odd to me to make such a major decision without giving more details of the reasoning behind it or the future of the product to the consumers who are their market. There would still be a lot of strong feeling about it, but if we knew more at least we could comment about things a bit better, right now we only know the bad side of things.
That’s close to how I feel too. There is one thing that’s really been bothering and I almost wanted to start another thread. I’m not saying this to jiggle my own jewelry but for the last few years I have wondered how on earth Dragon Magazine profits with an audience Wizards seems to be intentionally compressing. Make no mistake I love the fact that Wizards publishes material that the average Joe would look at like its Mayan hieroglyphics. They also have a product that’s cool if, especially to the average young male. I don’t see any effort to go out and get those new fans. You aren’t going to get new fans with source books and novels. You need comic books, cartoons, movies, video games, clothes, and stuff like that.
With the exception of one PSP game and NWNs 2 there isn’t much rep in video games, even with video games its nothing compared to what they had with interplay and that was no better than the gold box days, the movie was a failure, the comic book was short lived, the stores are gone and now the magazine. I don’t like to be presumptuous because I’m working with a few facts and my own impressions but I have to say I’m not sugar coating things anymore and I’m not giving Wizards the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to going out and getting new fans they are weak and the fact that dragon magazine will no longer be on store shelves looks like an example and a reflection of their weakness. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 02:02:49
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And that's a lot of what I was getting at in my post. We see storm clouds gathering... But it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Yeah, we may be in for a nasty storm and serious flooding... But the clouds could also blow over and leave us with a beautiful day. I'm just saying people need to wait to see how the weather develops before they start with the doom and gloom discussions.
Spoken like a man that lives in Florida . . . 
Well, it is true that I've had to dodge a few hurricanes... But it is a similar circumstance. We get a hurricane that looks like it may come this way, and people start panicking and battening down the hatches -- even if it's only a Cat 1 that's days out, and we're barely in its projected path. And, in those situations, I generally wait until we know for certain where it's going before I get concerned about it. More than once, I've seen the panic be totally misplaced -- storms generally don't hit this area (2004 being a quite notable exception). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 00:36:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But I'm not going to complain about something I don't have all the info about. I'm not going to whine a decision when I don't know how or why it was made, or what the full ramifications are.
That's the problem though - we don't know what's coming, and people are not reassured by this. It seems odd to me to make such a major decision without giving more details of the reasoning behind it or the future of the product to the consumers who are their market. There would still be a lot of strong feeling about it, but if we knew more at least we could comment about things a bit better, right now we only know the bad side of things.
Oh, I will fully agree that WotC's failure to provide any real data is a mistake. I'm just not ready to say that the entire thing is a horrible mistake. When I know enough to make an informed opinion, then I will do so. Right now, I simply don't have enough info.
And that's a lot of what I was getting at in my post. We see storm clouds gathering... But it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Yeah, we may be in for a nasty storm and serious flooding... But the clouds could also blow over and leave us with a beautiful day. I'm just saying people need to wait to see how the weather develops before they start with the doom and gloom discussions.
Spoken like a man that lives in Florida . . . |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 00:30:32
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But I'm not going to complain about something I don't have all the info about. I'm not going to whine a decision when I don't know how or why it was made, or what the full ramifications are.
That's the problem though - we don't know what's coming, and people are not reassured by this. It seems odd to me to make such a major decision without giving more details of the reasoning behind it or the future of the product to the consumers who are their market. There would still be a lot of strong feeling about it, but if we knew more at least we could comment about things a bit better, right now we only know the bad side of things.
Oh, I will fully agree that WotC's failure to provide any real data is a mistake. I'm just not ready to say that the entire thing is a horrible mistake. When I know enough to make an informed opinion, then I will do so. Right now, I simply don't have enough info.
And that's a lot of what I was getting at in my post. We see storm clouds gathering... But it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Yeah, we may be in for a nasty storm and serious flooding... But the clouds could also blow over and leave us with a beautiful day. I'm just saying people need to wait to see how the weather develops before they start with the doom and gloom discussions. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 20:01:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But I'm not going to complain about something I don't have all the info about. I'm not going to whine a decision when I don't know how or why it was made, or what the full ramifications are.
That's the problem though - we don't know what's coming, and people are not reassured by this. It seems odd to me to make such a major decision without giving more details of the reasoning behind it or the future of the product to the consumers who are their market. There would still be a lot of strong feeling about it, but if we knew more at least we could comment about things a bit better, right now we only know the bad side of things. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 05:25:33
I respect your opinion Wooly, but please also respect mine. As far as I'm concerned, my pitchfork is raised way high, as I basically just lost the last real reason that kept me going to my Friendly Local Gaming Store. Probably won't matter at all in terms of my FLGS' profits, as they make more money with anime and kids trading cards, but I know the owners are old timers like me, old timers who are now letting out a heavy sigh, seeing all that good stuff go down the wayside... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 01:22:59
Oh, come on now. We do not know that it is a sudden decision, and I highly doubt they'd make such a decision without considering, in detail, the ramifications of it. Do we all agree with the decision? Obviously not.
Do we know the full details of what's coming? No, we do not. And yet, people are, without having all the information or taking the time to consider the details, flying off the handle about it. In short, I see people doing the same damn thing they are complaining about WotC doing. 
You know, I'm not happy about this, either. I've been reading Dragon since 1989. It's the only magazine I've read for more than a few years, and it's the only one I'm reading now. I hate the idea of not having the magazine to read when and where I want...
But I'm not going to complain about something I don't have all the info about. I'm not going to whine a decision when I don't know how or why it was made, or what the full ramifications are.
We've all disliked some of the things WotC has done over the years. But WotC is the company that is bringing us the setting we love and the game we play. And they've been doing it for years, rescuing our hobby from what could have been an untimely death.
Let's at least see what's coming before we break out the torches and pitchforks, shall we? We may not like the new incarnation of Dragon, but we should at least see what it is before we pass judgment on it. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 01:07:23
I am sorry if this will sound a bit inflexible, but...
THERE'S NO WAY IN AVERNUS, DIS OR THE REST OF THE NINE HELLS I'M **PAYING** FOR **ANY** ONLINE CONTENT!
Dropping the Dragon mag is a huge mistake... In this day and age, it's amazing that some corporate folks don't see the advantages of outsourcing. Paizo was there, had produced mag after mag, and was doing a darn good job if I can say so. Whatever the reasons behind this sudden decision, it is poorly conceived, as Dragon could have been a vehicle to advertise those very reasons or shifts in direction/vision...
Shame on you WotC. At this point, I wouldn't feel bad if you tank completely, you faceless corporate gimp (one who keeps bending over repeatedly whenever the large Hoggsbro comes around...) If it wasn't for the great employees or freelance writers losing their income over such a 'tanking', I would not hesitate a second in boycotting all products under your increasingly fat trademark. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 20:54:22
Thanks for the vote of support Dargoth. I'd be happy to participate in the online whatever it becomes, but have no insight at this juncture. Like you all, I hope it turns out to be something cool with a mix of different kinds of Realmslore. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 16:50:34
It'd have to be pretty impressive indeed, as my eyes have a hard time handling the stress of reading for long (5 mins +) periods of time on a computer screen and I imagine it'd be fairly pricey in terms of paper and ink to print out. |
| Rory |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 01:41:11
Bring back the Forgotten Realms comic or something like it and they have my money. |
| Varl |
Posted - 23 Apr 2007 : 22:58:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
What would Wizards have to provide on there website for you to give them money?
Well, they claim taking Dragon and Dungeon online will be less expensive and easier to produce, so if that turns out to be the case, I'd like to see the fracturing expand to establish a live team for each individual game world. Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Eberron, etc. fans could then pick and freely choose the genre and game style they prefer.
I mean, if they're going to bother killing Dragon and Dungeon, they might as well go the rest of the way. I would.  |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 23 Apr 2007 : 20:56:57
I'm gonna give it a go but I can't say what my "value vs price" is yet, I'm guessing that it's going to be a whole ton of crunch that doesn't interest me much but I'll stick it out for a couple months.
If they were to do a "tour of the Realms" with monthly articles on various regions then I would buy two or three subscriptions to let WotC know how much I love the idea ;)
Another good group of lore articles would be "Laws of the Realms" and I would just die for a good economic model (how much international trade there really is, what's likely to go internationally vs what's likely to stay at home, and all the other "this is how the world works" information)
A series on adventuring companies of the Realms would be good too. Maybe just a (detailed) NPC a month (ie. The Lord Magister of the Dock Ward of Waterdeep, a short history, character profile ect).
Phew, there's a lot I would pay money for, it's just not feats, spells and PrCs that I want (in fact, I think we're full up on all that stuff *g*) |
| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 23 Apr 2007 : 05:05:03
I do hope it's more than a downloadable PDF every month. I'd prefer a paper magazine to that.
I'm guessing it will be a new "members area" of the site with exclusive content. Hopefully this exclusive content will be lots of lore related articles by our favorite authors of the Realms.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 22:33:21
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well there clearly will be a problem with security for online content as well. Anything that can be copied and passed can quickly be distributed. If copy is disabled (which is posible) the material will have less vaule, but can be printed and scaned - then distributed, etc.
Those unwilling or unable to subscribe will get access to the material in time. In fact it is posible there only need to be one subscriber to distribute the content world wide fairly quickly.
That's a risk faced with all online content... But clearly, the presence of pdfs on RPGNow.com and Paizo.com show that this isn't a huge concern, at least in the gaming community. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 22:31:00
Well there clearly will be a problem with security for online content as well. Anything that can be copied and passed can quickly be distributed. If copy is disabled (which is posible) the material will have less vaule, but can be printed and scaned - then distributed, etc.
Those unwilling or unable to subscribe will get access to the material in time. In fact it is posible there only need to be one subscriber to distribute the content world wide fairly quickly. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 22:23:15
quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
as to the subscription service itself, i'll give it a try.
if it's terrible after the first two or three months, then i'd probably cancel, but if it's decent enough, i'll stick with it depending on the price.
I would have thought that given this is what they consider the future, they're going to make it go with as big a bang as possible at the start to get as many people as possible to at least try it. |
| lokilokust |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 17:37:35
yay for hitting 'submit reply' before i'm actually done writing my post.
with that being said, there are definitely folks that simply won't be able to take part in any online subscription program from wotc, and i do think that is a shame and perhaps wotc will look into finding alternate methods of payment from the standard credit card merchant system.
(although, even if they do, there will still be folks who are longtime buyers of 'dragon' and 'dungeon' who simply won't have access to the online material, period.) |
| lokilokust |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 17:33:58
' Do remember people, not everyone lives in the USA. '
true, but the visa and mastercard gift cards are also sold in england, japan, australia, germany, the netherlands, egypt, canada, norway, sweden, and probably a few other places as well.
(and they're often sold in travel shops dedicated to tourists.) |
| Kuje |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 17:07:49
Do remember people, not everyone lives in the USA. If people say they can't get a credit card, then they can't get a credit card. :) These suggestions are helpful, aye, but I think people know what they can and can't get. |
| lokilokust |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 17:02:37
you can also always get visa or mastercard gift cards (which you can buy at most chain grocery stores, wal mart, etc.) and use those online.
.
as to the subscription service itself, i'll give it a try.
if it's terrible after the first two or three months, then i'd probably cancel, but if it's decent enough, i'll stick with it depending on the price. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 15:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I would. But some of us don't make enough money to get credit cards - so I can't.
get a VISA debit card it works exactly the same as your ATM card but it functions as credit card over the net
Indeed. It would also be good if they accepted PayPal; you don't need a credit card for that one, either. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 13:14:35
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I would. But some of us don't make enough money to get credit cards - so I can't.
get a VISA debit card it works exactly the same as your ATM card but it functions as credit card over the net |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 13:12:07
Hopefully Eric, Tom and Ed and reading this  |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 13:05:51
I would. But some of us don't make enough money to get credit cards - so I can't. |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 11:20:17
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
As for the Wizards content, I'll agree that Tom, Eric and Ed should all have regular places in the schedule where they can share their insights with the world. Be advised, however, that George and I will both be doing quite a bit of door-knocking as well. ;)
That does at least sound reassuring. I don't think I'd be unhappy with something similar to what Dargoth suggested.
If Reefy gets one then I don't have to  . I'm with Dargoth too, some specifically FR related Crunch is good, and the more of Volos fluff the better. I really appreciated how good Volo is when I stopped running a campaign in the Dalelands and tried joining a campaign somewhere like the Border Kingdoms. Just knowing inns, locations of interest, and names of people/places make it all so much more fun than just a short paragraph given in FRCS |
| Reefy |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 08:52:43
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
As for the Wizards content, I'll agree that Tom, Eric and Ed should all have regular places in the schedule where they can share their insights with the world. Be advised, however, that George and I will both be doing quite a bit of door-knocking as well. ;)
That does at least sound reassuring. I don't think I'd be unhappy with something similar to what Dargoth suggested. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 22 Apr 2007 : 06:06:32
It is a given that any kind of Realmslore would guarantee that I would subscribe.
One thing I am hoping for, and which has been hinted at, is some sort of replacement for E-tools character creation software. If they had some sort of easy character generator, especially one that let you work with monsters and easily let you slap templates and class levels on them, I would consider that a godsend for the the weekly game that I run.
One of my most time consuming preparation tasks is statting up monsters. It takes me a long time if I am not simply pulling them straight from the book. Adding templates and class levels (and choosing feats and spells, etc.) increases my prep time by a tremendous amount, is something that I wish I could automate a little easier, and also frankly is sometimes quite frustrating when I spend hours statting a boss monster and the players kill him off in 3 or 4 rounds.
The most helpful thing they could add to the subscription website (aside from Realmslore) is some powerful software applications that would make my job as a DM a little more easier.
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