| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bugoron_Bearfang |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 15:26:25
I looked for a topic thread about this and couldn't find one, but I may have simply missed it.
From all sources available, can one say that bards do or do not follow gods, on average? I've been reading a fellow on another board say that A) Bards cannot follow evil deities and B) Bards -should- not be devout to only one god.
Does anyone see any relevence in this? I, for one, do not.
Thanks for your time!
Bugoron |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 14:55:48
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, its like this... if you don't worship someone, you get stuck in a wall for all eternity.
Just use a sledgehammer...
Icelander makes a valid point about this, and I think that followers of the non obnoxiously tyrannical gods should be more like allies, or ''co-workers'' than servants.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 14:34:26
Well, its like this... if you don't worship someone, you get stuck in a wall for all eternity.
So it is like like worshiping politicians- if you don't pay your taxes, they stick you behind a wall.  |
| Icelander |
Posted - 24 Jul 2013 : 08:27:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well,
In FR, unless the character/NPC is insane, everyone worships at least some of the deities, however since bards aren't divine casters they usually don't have a patron deity.
The deities in FR are active and everyone knows they exist so it'll be pretty weird to not at least give a prayer/some words to the deities.
Well, I'm pretty sure that politicians, business leaders, generals and high-ranking civil servants exist and can affect my life, but I've never worshipped any of them.
If I was myself capable of unleashing magical powers through mystic incantations, the playing of instruments or spellsong, I would have even less inclination to worship entities just because they were better at magic than I was.
After all, any miracles they performed would, to me, not seem all that miraculous, just examples of someone more powerful or learned than I was using the same forces I was capable of using. |
| Akryn |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 08:24:10
KnightEJR
I looked into this and as far as i could find out you are absolutely right about the Drow bardic traditions (alltho i must admit that of the later one i found very little information but if their sole purpose is to sing in Lolth´s temples to me they are just singers) and i think that the deathsingers are not restricted to any special deity. Baelquesh on the other hand are for sure Lolth´s servants.. Maybe Vhaeraun has his own version of these, but to me it seems unlikely that the masked god would have many of these temple singers.
I would love to see a song written by a Deathsinger (or a sage of considerable insight on the drow way-of-life) just to see how accurate they are and in which way they glorify the victor and put to shame the defeated one. I kinda got the feeling when reading the book that the Deathsinger was not really interested in just recording all kinds of death around him but only very special occasions and individuals in contrast to a normal bard who might sing a song or tell a tale about... well pretty much everything. |
| Torkael |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 08:17:20
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Naughty thought for the day:
Perform checks are needed for Bardic 'Music' abilities, but any performance will do. Including dancing. So basically, a bard could do a striptease to inspire courage, competence, greatness or various suggestions/mass suggestions.
Think about that!
A bard worshipping Sharess somehow springs to mind when I read that. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 05:48:06
Basically, we know of two bardic traditions among the drow. The first (Deathsingers?) was the bardic tradition in the Starlight and Shadows books, where a drow bard witnesses a death so that they can sing of it to belittle the loser and talk (sing?) up the winner, so like anything else in drow society, its a social climbing exercise. While the drow in question worshiped Vhearaun (or at least travelled with drow that did), I don't know if this tradition is limited to Vhearaunites.
The other order (Baelquesh?), are basically bards that sing the praises of Lolth in her temples and learn the standard bardic tricks of the trade.
The interesting thing about the latter is the fact that Elaine mentioned in the Magehound that Lolth actually absorbed the essense of an Ilythiiri woman that learned the song of the unseele and was obsessed with spiders, and she was known as the Spider Queen, a title that Lolth now uses. Somewhere in there is a great plot hook to connect drow bards to the unseelie and the original Ilythiiri Spider Queen. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 22:51:46
quote:
Originally posted by Akryn
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
...as for not being able to worship evil deities, there is a drow bard PrC somewhere and they do worship Lolth
-----------------------------------------------
In Windwalker there was a drow bard (who was definitely evil to the core) and if i remember correctly he was called a "Deathsinger" or something like that. I for one would like to see the stats for this prestige class, because he was one of the most interesting characters in the book.. imho :D I dont think it was mentioned that he worshipped Lolth but i took that for granted..
It's been a while--a long while--since I read Windwalker, but didn't those drow (including the bard) follow Vhaeraun?
But in any case, I see no reason why a bard couldn't worship Lolth, if that was desired. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 20:46:59
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Doesn't Halisstra have bard levels?
Yes she does, 8 in total matter-of-fact. So says Dragon magazine #322 at least.... |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 20:24:51
The very first villian in the players of my campaign had to face was a Bard. Actually it was a Harper and they loved him and trusted him fully. Oh, how they loved that Person. He was smart, charming, had so many magic items and knew so much. But boy, should have seen their faces turning pale when they figured out that he was playing on them....... but only due to an evil artifact currupting his mind. Did not save his live in the end. 
As for Bards worshipping Gods - sure why should they not. Even though their arcane abilities are not connected to a divine power that does not mean that bards don't pray to one God or the other now and then - no matter if good or evil. |
| Uzzy |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 19:22:42
Dirgesinger? The PRC in Question is in Libris Mortis, and its nifty.
Personally, im playing a Bard right now who's a Singer/Dancer, and worships Lliira mainly, along with others (Mystra for her spells, Oghma, Lathander etc)
Bards could worship any gods, really. |
| Akryn |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 11:16:59
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
...as for not being able to worship evil deities, there is a drow bard PrC somewhere and they do worship Lolth
-----------------------------------------------
In Windwalker there was a drow bard (who was definitely evil to the core) and if i remember correctly he was called a "Deathsinger" or something like that. I for one would like to see the stats for this prestige class, because he was one of the most interesting characters in the book.. imho :D I dont think it was mentioned that he worshipped Lolth but i took that for granted.. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 01:40:59
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Evil Bards can make good villains. Remember that many of their powers are enchantment effects that influences the weaker mind. Plus they can gather hordes of followers of all castes in society.
Indeed.
I suggest any scribe with an interest in the portrayal of an "evil" bard, reads through the Song of Chaos short story I referenced above.
The musical composition of the evil composer's works demonstrates what perversely-inspired music can do to both people and their surroundings -- especially when the music itself is infused with magic.
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:48:07
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Ah, one always needs some luck to impress the crowd, eh? Not everyone will like every performance, no matter how "good" it is.. So there's nothing wrong with a bit of good luck to grease the axels, so to speak.
Ack, car talk!
Heh. And adventuring bards need luck even more. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:26:07
Ah, one always needs some luck to impress the crowd, eh? Not everyone will like every performance, no matter how "good" it is.. So there's nothing wrong with a bit of good luck to grease the axels, so to speak.
Ack, car talk! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:23:25
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
And song/art, probably. Things that deal with expression in all forms, since what separates bards from sages is the fact that bards like to express and perform what they've learned. :)
Well, yes--all those deities are partners. :) Oghma, Deneir, Milill...I think of song as a form of knowledge, but you domake a good point.
Also, my bardic characters tend to be quite fond of Tymora. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:20:45
And song/art, probably. Things that deal with expression in all forms, since what separates bards from sages is the fact that bards like to express and perform what they've learned. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:15:06
quote:
Originally posted by Bugoron_Bearfang
So there's really nothing saying, then, that a bard couldn't follow whichever deity they wanted, am I right?
Yeah, it's hard to say "what's average", besides that the typical bard probably worships the deities of knowledge. I say go with what fits the character. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 18:17:51
There's a good example of an evil bard in Ghostwalker as well. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 17:58:27
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Naughty thought for the day:
Perform checks are needed for Bardic 'Music' abilities, but any performance will do. Including dancing. So basically, a bard could do a striptease to inspire courage, competence, greatness or various suggestions/mass suggestions.
Think about that!
Indeed! Men watching an attractive female bard doing a striptease would be highly susceptible to any suggestions she might make... and that's before she uses any bardic abilities!   |
| Kuje |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 17:45:05
Named bards tend to be under represented in the lore and evil ones even more so. Out of the canon named 130ish bards from 1e and 2e only five of them are evil. |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 17:43:23
Evil Bards can make good villains. Remember that many of their powers are enchantment effects that influences the weaker mind. Plus they can gather hordes of followers of all castes in society.
They might not have the flashy fire power of Wizards, the undead control of Clerics or the monster control abilities. But they can control Wizards and Clerics to do that for them. They do have both versions of the Geas spell to hit people with, along with the Charm, Suggestion and Dominate schools of spells.
Think about it!
Naughty thought for the day:
Perform checks are needed for Bardic 'Music' abilities, but any performance will do. Including dancing. So basically, a bard could do a striptease to inspire courage, competence, greatness or various suggestions/mass suggestions.
Think about that! |
| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 17:16:45
Is going to start putting evil bards in all his campaigns because they obviously don't get enough atttention |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 17:06:04
Doesn't Halisstra have bard levels? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 17:02:51
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
...as for not being able to worship evil deities, there is a drow bard PrC somewhere and they do worship Lolth
We also have the "evil" composer mentioned in Richard Lee Byers contribution to the Halls of Stormweather anthology -- 'Song of Chaos' -- who likely worshipped an evil-aligned deity as well. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 16:57:14
Well,
In FR, unless the character/NPC is insane, everyone worships at least some of the deities, however since bards aren't divine casters they usually don't have a patron deity.
The deities in FR are active and everyone knows they exist so it'll be pretty weird to not at least give a prayer/some words to the deities. |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 16:31:45
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
I think everyone assumes all bards are good or neutral because of the Harpers.
What about heavy metal Guitarists?
It might be in Spellfire where Storm tells someone off for getting confused between the Harpers (organisation) and harpists (the players).
 |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 16:11:19
quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
I think everyone assumes all bards are good or neutral because of the Harpers.
What about heavy metal Guitarists? |
| Bluenose |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 16:01:32
The bard in my current game is a Bbn1/Brd6/WarChanter1 and goes into melee screaming the name of Tempus. :-) |
| Mazrim_Taim |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 15:54:06
I don't see any reason to not allow evil bards that worship evil deities. I think everyone assumes all bards are good or neutral because of the Harpers. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 15:38:42
No problem, anytime. |
