| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| cocla |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 02:27:41
I recently finished WotSQ, and was wondering if I could get some clarification on rumors I have heard. Like alot of people I was disapointed when Pharaun died, but noticed the possibility of his return as 1) Aliisza has (a part of) his remains, and 2) he did not die from magical means, making it easier for him to be brought back. I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza, the most likely place Pharaun will come back, as I cant see another drow-centric series comin out in a while (although I wouldnt mind it if it was well done) besides a Drizzit book.
So what of it? Anyone know if Pharaun is coming back any time soon? As Im hoping they are more than rumors. if anyone can answer this for me, please do.
That question aside, Im going to throw out my disapointments with the series to see if you all agre or disagree wit me.
Pharaun has become my favorite charactor of all the FR, with Rylid my favorite for the series itself. While i was also put back with Rylid's death, it at least dealt with the death of a main character well, with the resulition of his character and relationship with Hilistra. I felt Pharauns death on the other hand was VERY poorly done for a main character, it gave me the feeling of the book saying at the end 'Oh, he's still alive? Well lets kill him...' it felt like his death was given the consideration of someone brushing dust off their shoulder.
The other major quam i had wit the series was the 'lets have a party then clean up so the folks dont know' mentality. As the whole underdark was shaken up, then put back to the way it was. Yes, Vhaeraun supposidle made advancements other then one city, but how much have these other drow places been covered in books? Things being put back to how they were was almost as big a disapointment to me as Pharaun's death was.
Mod's Edit: Moved this to the novels board. :) |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| swifty |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 23:49:00
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Pharaun was one of the best realms characters I have read about in several years, and his death was just......unnecessary. I want him to come back more than I can adequately express in words.
i havent read the empyrrean oddysey trilogy yet but if pharun dosent come back so what.great character but sometimes its good to go after one series.gives him a cult appeal.better than being flogged to death like a certain other dark elf. |
| mnb128 |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 16:41:15
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In what book did Drizzt die? I'm not recalling reading this, or seeing any other commentary on it...
Perhaps this is what he meant, though Drizzt still did not actually die:
Spoiler: At the end of The Silent Blade, Entreri is given a kinetic barrier spell by Kimmuriel Oblodra which allows him to essentially rip Drizzt's heart out of his chest. He is seen bleeding out, with the blood flow quite faint, his body lying completely still (TSB, P4:C23).
However, we are then told that Drizzt was only dying--not completely dead--and that Rai'gy healed Drizzt's "dying form" (TSB, Epi.). Interestingly enough, Jarlaxle tells us that the healing spell was granted by Lolth! :/Spoiler
I stand corrected. I meant TSB not SotSH. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 09:36:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In what book did Drizzt die? I'm not recalling reading this, or seeing any other commentary on it...
Perhaps this is what he meant, though Drizzt still did not actually die:
Spoiler: At the end of The Silent Blade, Entreri is given a kinetic barrier spell by Kimmuriel Oblodra which allows him to essentially rip Drizzt's heart out of his chest. He is seen bleeding out, with the blood flow quite faint, his body lying completely still (TSB, P4:C23).
However, we are then told that Drizzt was only dying--not completely dead--and that Rai'gy healed Drizzt's "dying form" (TSB, Epi.). Interestingly enough, Jarlaxle tells us that the healing spell was granted by Lolth! :/Spoiler |
| mnb128 |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 01:11:19
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Reignir
Also, others were discussing deaths and resurrections. Um, Drizzt died, remember? I mean sure, it wasn't ever going to be permenant, but still.. Entreri killed him - and he came back. What about Bruenor.. He...kinda...died..?
In what book did Drizzt die? I'm not recalling reading this, or seeing any other commentary on it...
Back on topic, for me Pharaun was one of the few high points of the WotSQ books. He wasn't enough to make the books likable, but he was himself a very likable character. The whole finger-souvenir thing very much made me expect a resurrection, but we've not yet seen that.
SPOILER! (Highlight space below to read)
He almost died in Servant of the Shard, but was healed just prior to entering Mieliki's grove...so to speak.
I liked Pharaun, but for me Nimoor was the most captivating character of the series. Pharaun for sarcasm. Nimoor for intrigue. I'd like to see them both again, but I doubt we ever will. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 22:13:55
quote:
Originally posted by Reignir
Also, others were discussing deaths and resurrections. Um, Drizzt died, remember? I mean sure, it wasn't ever going to be permenant, but still.. Entreri killed him - and he came back. What about Bruenor.. He...kinda...died..?
In what book did Drizzt die? I'm not recalling reading this, or seeing any other commentary on it...
Back on topic, for me Pharaun was one of the few high points of the WotSQ books. He wasn't enough to make the books likable, but he was himself a very likable character. The whole finger-souvenir thing very much made me expect a resurrection, but we've not yet seen that. |
| Reignir |
Posted - 07 Jun 2009 : 21:04:14
First off I want to be clear - Pharuans needs to come back. I've recently finished WotSQ, with Pharaun being my absolute favorite (topping even Entreri). Then I remembered something. Near the end of book 6, Valas Hune reappears, and makes an entrence for Road of the Patriarch (he set up a contract with Kimmuriel, remember?). But recall his impact on the situation. Of the party, one came back - Quenthel, the High Priestess. I have no idea how to interpret that, but it seems like that should have an impact on us. Maybe thats why Pharaun's death was necessary.
Also, others were discussing deaths and resurrections. Um, Drizzt died, remember? I mean sure, it wasn't ever going to be permenant, but still.. Entreri killed him - and he came back. What about Bruenor.. He...kinda...died..? |
| khorne |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 16:58:11
Pharaun was one of the best realms characters I have read about in several years, and his death was just......unnecessary. I want him to come back more than I can adequately express in words. |
| Mortic |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 11:54:24
Well my problems isnt that Ryld and Pharaun died, its more the way it happens, and espcecially book 5 (i think it is) where it seems like the Writer is trying to justify Ryld being killed. The writer describes him more evil and careless than he has been in the other books. This I see as more destroying the series than anything els. |
| Jindael |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 13:46:27
quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
quote:
Originally posted by Cam Beul
Like most people, I hated the fact that he died. Although I liked every book of the series, I liked that one the least. What I couldn't stand about Ryld's death is that he didn't quite find his place before he died: I think hes going to be on the Wall.
Hm, didn't he meet Halisstra on his way to the Demonweb Pits?
Yup. He was marching along like a good follower of Lolth. His soul is accounted for. |
| Braveheart |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 08:33:05
quote:
Originally posted by Cam Beul
Like most people, I hated the fact that he died. Although I liked every book of the series, I liked that one the least. What I couldn't stand about Ryld's death is that he didn't quite find his place before he died: I think hes going to be on the Wall.
Hm, didn't he meet Halisstra on his way to the Demonweb Pits? |
| Cam Beul |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 04:22:30
Definately. What I thought was clever was that while he pushed the limits, he never quite went "too" far. It's like he knew what Quenthel could stand and danced around it annoyingly. Then again, one could say he went too far the whole time, and that's why she betrayed him.
Like most people, I hated the fact that he died. Although I liked every book of the series, I liked that one the least. What I couldn't stand about Ryld's death is that he didn't quite find his place before he died: I think hes going to be on the Wall.
But anyway, I'm elated to find out that there is going to be a novel on Vhok and Aliisza, especially since I found that having evil characters as the main characters was really refreshing. Mr. Reid already has a customer in me no matter what, but I would still be overjoyed if Pharaun made an appearance.
|
| Darth KTrava |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 01:36:11
quote:
Originally posted by Sarephim
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Tquote:
Originally posted by Sarephim
Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.
Well met
Personally, I thought the death of Pharaun was very well done and was an element of the book which really struck it for me  Events such as this add that shock element which I love.
Bringing back Pharaun would be wrong, IMHO. Remember what happened to Wulfar? I don't believe this went down very well, so would not bringing Pharaun back cause similar upset?
I always thought the death was poorly done, but that is simply difference in opinion. I do agree however that bringing back Wulfgar was a bad mistake... his death had meaning and then bringing him back sort of nullifed the value.
And I also thought that Ryld's death was rather lame as well. (sorry for the OT post)
But who knows, Pharaun may be back. He was a lively thorn in the females' sides. Being more than just "a mere male" in Drow society. He pushed his limits. |
| Sarephim |
Posted - 06 May 2006 : 02:45:19
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, the more up-to-date version is stored here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/downloads/grandhistory.zip
Ah didn't realize Candlekeep had one. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 May 2006 : 02:37:17
Actually, the more up-to-date version is stored here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/downloads/grandhistory.zip
|
| Sarephim |
Posted - 06 May 2006 : 02:25:30
Here is a very detailed timelime of the Realms.
http://www.geonomicon.com/chronology/A%20Grand%20History%20of%20the%20Realms.pdf |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 22:04:48
I don't see the problem with Pharaun coming back. Players do it all the time. It could make a very good plot device for another book (maybe he comes back, but now he gives absolutely no respect for the spider queen... turns maybe to another goddess like Kiaransalee who welcomes arcane casters). I could see him also arranging to bring back Ryld, but Ryld not necessarily wanting to give up his worship... whole fields of plot here.
I do find it interesting that folks mention the Seldarine not getting involved. I was thinking the same thing. However, I'm also wondering, what were the dates for all this to occur.... and what were the dates that the assault on Evermeet, the assault on Evereska, the assault on the High Forest by the Fey'ri, and the assault on Cormanthor by the fey'ri? They could have done some shadowing to explain, but perhaps the elven deities were just plain busy recently. Maybe they didn't even know about Lolth's silence until it was pretty much ended because they were so busy with other things. |
| Krafus |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 14:07:59
Pharaun's death was the I-beam that broke the camel's back for me. I could have forgiven the lame return to the status quo, Ryld's ridiculous death, and all the other irritants in the series if only Pharaun had survived. He was clever, witty, and a pure joy to read - a combination unequaled by any FR character in years.
But Pharaun surviving would have been a threat to the sacred cow House Baenre. We can't have that, of course. So instead of having an upcoming trilogy to look forward to about Pharaun, we have one about Hallistra, I character I despise and was hoping would die in Resurrection. *retches* |
| Sarephim |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 04:31:49
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Quenthel finally made sense to me when I got the fact that she was taking advice from the whips. Her faith was shattered when Lolth went silent. When she had Lolth with her, she was confident and a leader, but the longer she went without hearing from her goddess, she began to seek council from anything that would not make her appear weak. She wasn't going to take Pharaun's council, and to ask the other priestesses for advice would make her look weak . . . and the whip would talk just to her.
That being said, I was very annoyed with her for a while until that whole "stattered faith, I need someone to lean on" thing occured to me, as it wasn't spelled out right away in some of the books. She appears rather competant in the first novel, actually, and then slides downhill fast from there.
Meh I just dislike cerics of Lolth in general... their all the same. Really it gets annoying that Lolth is always getting the one ups on her children. There is so much room for exploration into Vheraun. Lolth is boring old and overused IMO. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 03:35:30
Quenthel finally made sense to me when I got the fact that she was taking advice from the whips. Her faith was shattered when Lolth went silent. When she had Lolth with her, she was confident and a leader, but the longer she went without hearing from her goddess, she began to seek council from anything that would not make her appear weak. She wasn't going to take Pharaun's council, and to ask the other priestesses for advice would make her look weak . . . and the whip would talk just to her.
That being said, I was very annoyed with her for a while until that whole "stattered faith, I need someone to lean on" thing occured to me, as it wasn't spelled out right away in some of the books. She appears rather competant in the first novel, actually, and then slides downhill fast from there. |
| Freakboy |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 03:35:05
I can't express adequately with words how disappointing Phauran's death was to me either. As a character, I enjoyed him more than any other Realms character I have read about. I have mixed feelings about him returning from death. I would dearly love to read more tales with Phauran in them, but I don't want him to fall into the "death has no meaning" genre of characters that fans come to hate because they are brought back all the time. It's the primary reason Drizzt novels have lost appeal for me. I know that no matter what nothing will happen to Drizzt and the character has become static to me.
All of that said, if Phauran could be included in a story like a prequel (perhaps focusing on his adventures with Ryld before the events of WotSQ), or included in the Alissza and Vhok trilogy, then I would like to see it happen. Ultimately, I think the desire to read more about my favorite character overides any reservations I have about him being brought back. Here's hoping that Phauran makes at least a token appearance in the Vhok and Alissza Trilogy. Even if it is just long enough to let all of us fans know that he still lives on and cheated Lolth and Quenthel out of killing him, it would be enough for me. A five second cameo at the end of the series where we see him in a private moment with Alissza so that we know somewhere in Faerun, Phauran and Alissza are trading magic tricks and things more intimate would be grand. If you are reading Mr. Reid and if you actually have any say in it, here is one fans request that you find a way to address Phauran's status in even the most minimal of ways with the Vhok/Alissza trilogy somewhere in the 3 books. |
| Sarephim |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 03:26:19
Ryld's death was horrid... and I hated the fact that Quenthel survied... she was so stupid and annoying. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 01:15:26
I'm trying to think of how many characters have actually come back from the dead in FR. Not counting gods. Azoun is still dead. Lander (I remember when I first read that one, it was a shock) is still dead. Akabar bel Akash . . . still dead. Wulfgar is really the only example I can think of . . .
That having been said, I don't really want Pharaun to come back. Keep in mind, you can look back over my posts when the books were originally discussed . . . I loved Pharaun and Ryld both, but I don't want them to come back . . . and for the record, Ryld's death was more pointless than Pharuan's.
Oh yeah . . . Quenthel came back too . . .
(For the record, Jean Grey, Colossus, Hal Jordan, and Jason Todd should have all stayed dead as well . . . ) |
| Sarephim |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 22:55:11
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Tquote:
Originally posted by Sarephim
Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.
Well met
Personally, I thought the death of Pharaun was very well done and was an element of the book which really struck it for me Events such as this add that shock element which I love.
Bringing back Pharaun would be wrong, IMHO. Remember what happened to Wulfar? I don't believe this went down very well, so would not bringing Pharaun back cause similar upset?
I always thought the death was poorly done, but that is simply difference in opinion. I do agree however that bringing back Wulfgar was a bad mistake... his death had meaning and then bringing him back sort of nullifed the value. |
| cocla |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 17:15:06
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
His death was unanticipated, yes
I actually expected his death, although I thought it would happen earlie in the series. The death of a character I like always stings, but it stung worse for Pharaun because, as I said before, I felt his death was pooly done. Im not talking about the leaving it open ending, I mean the careless way his death just seemed to be thrown in there. Even if I really loved the character, if the death is well done I dont mind as much, because it should give a feeling of things coming full circle and/or shock if the death is unexpected and sudden. I just didnt get that with Pharaun.
Now if you will excuse me... *takes out rule book and starts casting resurection spell* |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 11:23:42
With his finger still being around, and in Aliisza's possession, and her infatuation with him, it could well be that this was meant as a backdoor.
Plus, in drastic contrast to Wulfgar, Pharaun was a fully developed character before he died, Wulfgar hadn't left that much of an impression, at least where I am concerned. His death was unanticipated, yes, but if Wizards had wanted him to be gone permanently, there wouldn't have been anything left of him. His fate is open to further development. Ryld and the other victims are quite gone, I don't mourn Ryld or Jeggred's deaths, but Pharaun's stung... *sniff* he had so much potential. |
| silverwizard |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 10:33:57
It could, but consider that many people do believe that Pharaun died "in vain", for no good reason. I obviously don't agree with your opinion that his death was well done. Nonetheless, you may have a point here. However, I WOULD like to see Pharaun come back (I know this may not be the best option, but favourites are favourites).
This series stuck in my mind as a classic example of underachievement (so much potential, so little changing eventually), so my view is kinda biased. Bringing back Pharaun (in a suitable manner, not just "hey, let's bring him back because people want him back") might be a step towards making things "right". |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 07:58:04
Tquote:
Originally posted by Sarephim
Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.
Well met
Personally, I thought the death of Pharaun was very well done and was an element of the book which really struck it for me Events such as this add that shock element which I love.
Bringing back Pharaun would be wrong, IMHO. Remember what happened to Wulfar? I don't believe this went down very well, so would not bringing Pharaun back cause similar upset? |
| cocla |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 04:17:08
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by cocla
I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza
You heard right. 
I am currently writing the first book of a trilogy featuring Kaanyr Vhok and Aliisza. While I know the series and individual book titles, I don't think they are public knowledge yet, so that's all I feel comfortable revealing at the moment. As more info becomes available, though, I'm sure you'll see posts about it here on the Candlekeep forums.
Thomas
Glad to hear it, like alot of others I found the pair interesting, and I look forward to reading the series :) |
| Sarephim |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 02:19:41
Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 23:42:30
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by cocla
I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza
You heard right.
I am currently writing the first book of a trilogy featuring Kaanyr Vhok and Aliisza. While I know the series and individual book titles, I don't think they are public knowledge yet, so that's all I feel comfortable revealing at the moment. As more info becomes available, though, I'm sure you'll see posts about it here on the Candlekeep forums.
Thomas
Well met
And it will be much apprecaited, Thomas  I'm poised with quill and parchment in anticipation of entering the titles in the novels section here at Candlekeep  |
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