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cocla
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  02:27:41  Show Profile  Visit cocla's Homepage Send cocla a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I recently finished WotSQ, and was wondering if I could get some clarification on rumors I have heard. Like alot of people I was disapointed when Pharaun died, but noticed the possibility of his return as 1) Aliisza has (a part of) his remains, and 2) he did not die from magical means, making it easier for him to be brought back. I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza, the most likely place Pharaun will come back, as I cant see another drow-centric series comin out in a while (although I wouldnt mind it if it was well done) besides a Drizzit book.

So what of it? Anyone know if Pharaun is coming back any time soon? As Im hoping they are more than rumors. if anyone can answer this for me, please do.

That question aside, Im going to throw out my disapointments with the series to see if you all agre or disagree wit me.

Pharaun has become my favorite charactor of all the FR, with Rylid my favorite for the series itself. While i was also put back with Rylid's death, it at least dealt with the death of a main character well, with the resulition of his character and relationship with Hilistra. I felt Pharauns death on the other hand was VERY poorly done for a main character, it gave me the feeling of the book saying at the end 'Oh, he's still alive? Well lets kill him...' it felt like his death was given the consideration of someone brushing dust off their shoulder.

The other major quam i had wit the series was the 'lets have a party then clean up so the folks dont know' mentality. As the whole underdark was shaken up, then put back to the way it was. Yes, Vhaeraun supposidle made advancements other then one city, but how much have these other drow places been covered in books? Things being put back to how they were was almost as big a disapointment to me as Pharaun's death was.

Mod's Edit: Moved this to the novels board. :)

Edited by - The Sage on 03 May 2006 08:05:00

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1419 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  06:36:40  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I heard Salvatore had Pharaun killed because he believed Gromph and he would have to fight it out. Not to gainsay the Lord of Drow in Menzoberrazan and other cities, I point out that Pharaun was far too smart to be so stupid as to challenge Gromph.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
704 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  07:51:43  Show Profile  Visit EytanBernstein's Homepage Send EytanBernstein a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You might want to change the title and mention spoilers in your title, just so that people who haven't read the novel don't imply his death prior to having read it.

http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein

Edited by - EytanBernstein on 04 May 2006 00:58:49
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  08:06:08  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good call Eytan. And done... .

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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  08:48:35  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with the OP in regard to the disappointment of Pharaun's quick death and the solution of the entire plotline. Of course we 'knew' that Lolth couldn't die so to speak, but the way it was handled (the lack of drama) was a major letdown. However, with so many characters to deal with it was only a matter of time before the characters were weeded out so to speak. DragonLance had the same problem with too many people hopping around. If we boil the plot down to its essentials, the story was about Lolth leaving her abyssal domain and rebuilding the Demonweb Pits as a plane onto itself. Everything else was 'window dressing'.
The multitude of characters made for some very interesting subplots, which were handled more or less well. Halisstra's shift from Lolth to Elistraee and back to Lolth was somewhat 'weak' and too spontaneous with her showing a naivete so uncommon for a drow that one has to wonder how in the Nine Hells she made High Priestess of Lolth in the first place.
Also, I kinda find Pharaun's death unsatisfying in the way that with all his brains and wit he did not have a back-up plan. Hell he seems powerfull enough to have come up with the old stasis clone ploy or even have a contingency to get him away from the new and improved Demonweb Pits.
The way Elistraee was portrayed, although only passively, was not what I think her to be. She has been fighting a cold war against her mother for millenia and she does not put this "Chosen" of hers to the test. She should have seriously checked the character of such a champion. Elistraee is a goddess and should know have way more insight into a character than she was shown to have.
In addition to that, where was the Seldarine? The conflict between them and Lolth has been going on for even longer than the one between Elistraee and her mother. Shouldn't they have acted in one way or another? One would assume that Corellon would have a much greater interest in seeing Lolth gone than his daughter. It seems to me that the story is flawed in the regard that it takes place in a virtual pantheon vaccuum, those deities/powers that would have a great deal of interest in the demise of Lolth outside the drow pantheon are missing. That, in itself, makes the story somewhat weak...

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1419 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  09:19:40  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you hadn't noticed. The Seldarine really don't DO much compared to Lolth.

At least Mystra and Kelemvor seem to DO stuff in their portrayals.

I think the easiest solution is his ring was a ring of regeneration. So long as he was wearing it, he's fine.

I was disappointed most by the death of the Draegoloth. You'd think Quenthel would be less important.

(Was there EVER a more stupid High Priestess than she? Scratch that, AFTER Halistrae)

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/

Edited by - Charles Phipps on 03 May 2006 09:20:42
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  09:29:29  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Charles, names are really not your speciality...in regards to spelling :-P

I never really cared much for the Draegloth, and she isn't as much stupid as in doubt, although I have to admit these moments of doubt could have been portrayed with more depth in the later books.

As for the Seldarine not doing much, maybe, finally, with the Retreat ended and the elves returning to the mainland we'll see some more Seldarine action. For the gods being 'present' on Faerun, one would assume that that includes the Seldarine. And if you look at Fflar's resurrection after some 600 years or so, they seem more inclined to work in the background. Without divine intervention Fflar could've never been brought back to life.

In general it can be said, though, that in this instance the Seldarine and other deities SHOULD have been way more active when Lolth (I still type Lolo first!) stopped being in touch with her followers.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1419 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  10:23:20  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No they really aren't.

And Quenthel's ignorance is built around a fanaticism that utterly blinds her to politics, intrigue, subtlety, or anything else.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  11:33:29  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

No they really aren't.

And Quenthel's ignorance is built around a fanaticism that utterly blinds her to politics, intrigue, subtlety, or anything else.




Fanaticism always blinds, otherwise that person would not be a fanatic. Her portrayal in this is constant and logical, she has been indoctrinated from infancy on...yet she starts to doubt her faith, but since her certainty in her faith/goddess was all she ever lived for is basically ripped away by Lolth's silence there is not much left. And THAT is where I would've liked to see a cartload more of introspection.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Jindael
Senior Scribe

USA
357 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  15:30:48  Show Profile  Visit Jindael's Homepage Send Jindael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cocla

I recently finished WotSQ, and was wondering if I could get some clarification on rumors I have heard. Like alot of people I was disapointed when Pharaun died, but noticed the possibility of his return as 1) Aliisza has (a part of) his remains, and 2) he did not die from magical means, making it easier for him to be brought back. I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza, the most likely place Pharaun will come back, as I cant see another drow-centric series comin out in a while (although I wouldnt mind it if it was well done) besides a Drizzit book.

So what of it? Anyone know if Pharaun is coming back any time soon? As Im hoping they are more than rumors. if anyone can answer this for me, please do.


Well, as far as I know, they are all rumors at this point. However, it’s fun to speculate:

Yes, whats-her-face has Pharaun’s finger. If that isn’t foreshadowing for a return of the character, then I don’t really know what is. Sure, it could have been just a simple (if grim) trophy for her to keep, but I can easily see her bringing back Pharaun for at least the boy-toy part, if not for the mischief he causes.

I really think it will have to do with sales. If the WotC marketing sees that there is a demand for more tales about Drow, then we might very well see additional spin offs from the WotSQ series. We already know that the (extraordinarily talented) Lisa Smedman will be handling Halisstra. If the demand for more Drow books stays constant, there is a good chance that we will also see the rumored book about the half-demon couple, which would probably involve Pharaun at some point, I’m sure. (And hopefully the Drow demand will be enough to get us another Liriel novel. Whee!)

quote:
Originally posted by cocla

That question aside, Im going to throw out my disapointments with the series to see if you all agre or disagree wit me.

Pharaun has become my favorite charactor of all the FR, with Rylid my favorite for the series itself. While i was also put back with Rylid's death, it at least dealt with the death of a main character well, with the resulition of his character and relationship with Hilistra. I felt Pharauns death on the other hand was VERY poorly done for a main character, it gave me the feeling of the book saying at the end 'Oh, he's still alive? Well lets kill him...' it felt like his death was given the consideration of someone brushing dust off their shoulder.


That “quick end to a central character” thing is what I believe that he has the potential for coming back. Mr. Kemp was stuck with five previous novels to pull from, plus (from what I understand) an outline from somewhere higher up that he had to follow. If a quick, yet open end to Phaerun was what the outline called for, then I’m sure Mr. Kemp won’t be able to reveal unto us any further plans for Pharaun due to NDA’s.

quote:
Originally posted by cocla

The other major quam i had wit the series was the 'lets have a party then clean up so the folks dont know' mentality. As the whole underdark was shaken up, then put back to the way it was. Yes, Vhaeraun supposidle made advancements other then one city, but how much have these other drow places been covered in books? Things being put back to how they were was almost as big a disapointment to me as Pharaun's death was.




I agree wholeheartedly here. Too many times, I think, the ball has been dropped when it comes to changes. “Giant floating city over the desert has come back from the plane of Shadow! But shhhhh, it’s a secret.” “Star Elves come back after being stuck in another plane, but it doesn’t really affect anyone except a few folks in the Yuriwood.” “The ancient Immaraski have broken the great seal on their long hidden city…but it’s a secret.”

I wonder if it’s because no one wants to make a drastic change to the Realms that things pop up, but nothing really changes all that much. In WotSQ, there was a tremendous opportunity for some pretty big permanent changes in the Underdark. But really, all we got was Ched Nasad is all busted up. Sure, there were some planar changes, but what difference does that really make to your average mortal? (On that note, what difference does it really make to your average deity? Is Lolth going to stay up later because now she has her own apartment?)

quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
<snip>STUFF ABOUT THE OTHER GODS<snip>



This was a thought that I had since I heard that the books were about Lolth going silent. I really thought that the Seldarine were going to get up and do something. I’m assuming that the Elistraee angle is going to be handled in Lisa Smedman’s new set of novels. I always get the feeling that the Elven Pantheon is treated as tacked on, which irks me.

On a totally unrelated note; in my version of the Realms, Lolth’s silence happens at the same time that Set makes a bid for power in the Sword Coast by having faithful Yuan-ti “convert” a tribe of Orcs to his worship (as well as starting to produce serpent/orc crossbreeds). Erevan Ilsere, seeing the path open, tricks Malar into battling Sebek. (The rest of the Mulhorandi pantheon gets caught up in it eventually.) Since Lolth is silent, Malar is occupied and Moander is (mostly) dead, The big elf haters are otherwise occupied. The Seldarine uses this to their advantage to bring allies (the gods from Races of the Wild) to increase their strength. The end result is that most of the Mulhorandi either becomes part of the main group, gets absorbed, voluntarily merge or destroyed while the elves gain new deities and more strength. The elves begin a expedition into the underdark near Neverwinter, where they encounter strong resistance from drow who once again have Lolth on their side.

I seemed to have gone on about my own game and I’ll stop now. The point is, I think that the actions of other gods should have been at least lightly touched on during the series, not just drow gods.

"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2449 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  18:36:12  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still like what one of my groups managed to do: follow the WotSQ characters into Lloth's fane (this is back in Book 3) while remaining hidden. Then, after the godly battle was over and the WotSQ drow had been sent back to the Realms with the death of the priest, my group's elven priest summoned Corellon. A theological shouting match ensued, at the end of which, the priest managed to convince Corellon (who had wanted to remain neutral for fear of sparking a godswar) to do what Vhaeraun had failed. The group got to watch as he skewered Lloth.

Personally, I would have been happy if the WotSQ series had ended in any way other than how it did.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

334 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  23:03:43  Show Profile  Visit Thomas M. Reid's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cocla

I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza

You heard right.

I am currently writing the first book of a trilogy featuring Kaanyr Vhok and Aliisza. While I know the series and individual book titles, I don't think they are public knowledge yet, so that's all I feel comfortable revealing at the moment. As more info becomes available, though, I'm sure you'll see posts about it here on the Candlekeep forums.

Thomas

"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."

www.thomasmreid.com
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5692 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2006 :  23:42:30  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid

quote:
Originally posted by cocla

I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza

You heard right.

I am currently writing the first book of a trilogy featuring Kaanyr Vhok and Aliisza. While I know the series and individual book titles, I don't think they are public knowledge yet, so that's all I feel comfortable revealing at the moment. As more info becomes available, though, I'm sure you'll see posts about it here on the Candlekeep forums.

Thomas



Well met

And it will be much apprecaited, Thomas I'm poised with quill and parchment in anticipation of entering the titles in the novels section here at Candlekeep

Alaundo
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Sarephim
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  02:19:41  Show Profile  Visit Sarephim's Homepage Send Sarephim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.
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cocla
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  04:17:08  Show Profile  Visit cocla's Homepage Send cocla a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid

quote:
Originally posted by cocla

I also heard that some author may write a series centering on Vhok and Aliisza

You heard right.

I am currently writing the first book of a trilogy featuring Kaanyr Vhok and Aliisza. While I know the series and individual book titles, I don't think they are public knowledge yet, so that's all I feel comfortable revealing at the moment. As more info becomes available, though, I'm sure you'll see posts about it here on the Candlekeep forums.

Thomas



Glad to hear it, like alot of others I found the pair interesting, and I look forward to reading the series :)
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5692 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  07:58:04  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
T
quote:
Originally posted by Sarephim

Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.



Well met

Personally, I thought the death of Pharaun was very well done and was an element of the book which really struck it for me Events such as this add that shock element which I love.

Bringing back Pharaun would be wrong, IMHO. Remember what happened to Wulfar? I don't believe this went down very well, so would not bringing Pharaun back cause similar upset?

Alaundo
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silverwizard
Seeker

Greece
76 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  10:33:57  Show Profile  Visit silverwizard's Homepage Send silverwizard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It could, but consider that many people do believe that Pharaun died "in vain", for no good reason. I obviously don't agree with your opinion that his death was well done. Nonetheless, you may have a point here. However, I WOULD like to see Pharaun come back (I know this may not be the best option, but favourites are favourites).

This series stuck in my mind as a classic example of underachievement (so much potential, so little changing eventually), so my view is kinda biased. Bringing back Pharaun (in a suitable manner, not just "hey, let's bring him back because people want him back") might be a step towards making things "right".
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  11:23:42  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With his finger still being around, and in Aliisza's possession, and her infatuation with him, it could well be that this was meant as a backdoor.

Plus, in drastic contrast to Wulfgar, Pharaun was a fully developed character before he died, Wulfgar hadn't left that much of an impression, at least where I am concerned. His death was unanticipated, yes, but if Wizards had wanted him to be gone permanently, there wouldn't have been anything left of him. His fate is open to further development. Ryld and the other victims are quite gone, I don't mourn Ryld or Jeggred's deaths, but Pharaun's stung... *sniff* he had so much potential.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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cocla
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  17:15:06  Show Profile  Visit cocla's Homepage Send cocla a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

His death was unanticipated, yes


I actually expected his death, although I thought it would happen earlie in the series. The death of a character I like always stings, but it stung worse for Pharaun because, as I said before, I felt his death was pooly done. Im not talking about the leaving it open ending, I mean the careless way his death just seemed to be thrown in there. Even if I really loved the character, if the death is well done I dont mind as much, because it should give a feeling of things coming full circle and/or shock if the death is unexpected and sudden. I just didnt get that with Pharaun.

Now if you will excuse me... *takes out rule book and starts casting resurection spell*
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Sarephim
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2006 :  22:55:11  Show Profile  Visit Sarephim's Homepage Send Sarephim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

T
quote:
Originally posted by Sarephim

Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.



Well met

Personally, I thought the death of Pharaun was very well done and was an element of the book which really struck it for me Events such as this add that shock element which I love.

Bringing back Pharaun would be wrong, IMHO. Remember what happened to Wulfar? I don't believe this went down very well, so would not bringing Pharaun back cause similar upset?



I always thought the death was poorly done, but that is simply difference in opinion. I do agree however that bringing back Wulfgar was a bad mistake... his death had meaning and then bringing him back sort of nullifed the value.

Edited by - Sarephim on 04 May 2006 22:55:39
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  01:15:26  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm trying to think of how many characters have actually come back from the dead in FR. Not counting gods. Azoun is still dead. Lander (I remember when I first read that one, it was a shock) is still dead. Akabar bel Akash . . . still dead. Wulfgar is really the only example I can think of . . .

That having been said, I don't really want Pharaun to come back. Keep in mind, you can look back over my posts when the books were originally discussed . . . I loved Pharaun and Ryld both, but I don't want them to come back . . . and for the record, Ryld's death was more pointless than Pharuan's.

Oh yeah . . . Quenthel came back too . . .

(For the record, Jean Grey, Colossus, Hal Jordan, and Jason Todd should have all stayed dead as well . . . )

Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 05 May 2006 01:36:05
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Sarephim
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  03:26:19  Show Profile  Visit Sarephim's Homepage Send Sarephim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ryld's death was horrid... and I hated the fact that Quenthel survied... she was so stupid and annoying.
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Freakboy
Seeker

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  03:35:05  Show Profile  Visit Freakboy's Homepage Send Freakboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't express adequately with words how disappointing Phauran's death was to me either. As a character, I enjoyed him more than any other Realms character I have read about. I have mixed feelings about him returning from death. I would dearly love to read more tales with Phauran in them, but I don't want him to fall into the "death has no meaning" genre of characters that fans come to hate because they are brought back all the time. It's the primary reason Drizzt novels have lost appeal for me. I know that no matter what nothing will happen to Drizzt and the character has become static to me.

All of that said, if Phauran could be included in a story like a prequel (perhaps focusing on his adventures with Ryld before the events of WotSQ), or included in the Alissza and Vhok trilogy, then I would like to see it happen. Ultimately, I think the desire to read more about my favorite character overides any reservations I have about him being brought back. Here's hoping that Phauran makes at least a token appearance in the Vhok and Alissza Trilogy. Even if it is just long enough to let all of us fans know that he still lives on and cheated Lolth and Quenthel out of killing him, it would be enough for me. A five second cameo at the end of the series where we see him in a private moment with Alissza so that we know somewhere in Faerun, Phauran and Alissza are trading magic tricks and things more intimate would be grand. If you are reading Mr. Reid and if you actually have any say in it, here is one fans request that you find a way to address Phauran's status in even the most minimal of ways with the Vhok/Alissza trilogy somewhere in the 3 books.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  03:35:30  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Quenthel finally made sense to me when I got the fact that she was taking advice from the whips. Her faith was shattered when Lolth went silent. When she had Lolth with her, she was confident and a leader, but the longer she went without hearing from her goddess, she began to seek council from anything that would not make her appear weak. She wasn't going to take Pharaun's council, and to ask the other priestesses for advice would make her look weak . . . and the whip would talk just to her.

That being said, I was very annoyed with her for a while until that whole "stattered faith, I need someone to lean on" thing occured to me, as it wasn't spelled out right away in some of the books. She appears rather competant in the first novel, actually, and then slides downhill fast from there.
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Sarephim
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  04:31:49  Show Profile  Visit Sarephim's Homepage Send Sarephim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Quenthel finally made sense to me when I got the fact that she was taking advice from the whips. Her faith was shattered when Lolth went silent. When she had Lolth with her, she was confident and a leader, but the longer she went without hearing from her goddess, she began to seek council from anything that would not make her appear weak. She wasn't going to take Pharaun's council, and to ask the other priestesses for advice would make her look weak . . . and the whip would talk just to her.

That being said, I was very annoyed with her for a while until that whole "stattered faith, I need someone to lean on" thing occured to me, as it wasn't spelled out right away in some of the books. She appears rather competant in the first novel, actually, and then slides downhill fast from there.


Meh I just dislike cerics of Lolth in general... their all the same. Really it gets annoying that Lolth is always getting the one ups on her children. There is so much room for exploration into Vheraun. Lolth is boring old and overused IMO.
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Krafus
Learned Scribe

246 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  14:07:59  Show Profile  Visit Krafus's Homepage Send Krafus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pharaun's death was the I-beam that broke the camel's back for me. I could have forgiven the lame return to the status quo, Ryld's ridiculous death, and all the other irritants in the series if only Pharaun had survived. He was clever, witty, and a pure joy to read - a combination unequaled by any FR character in years.

But Pharaun surviving would have been a threat to the sacred cow House Baenre. We can't have that, of course. So instead of having an upcoming trilogy to look forward to about Pharaun, we have one about Hallistra, I character I despise and was hoping would die in Resurrection. *retches*
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2006 :  22:04:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't see the problem with Pharaun coming back. Players do it all the time. It could make a very good plot device for another book (maybe he comes back, but now he gives absolutely no respect for the spider queen... turns maybe to another goddess like Kiaransalee who welcomes arcane casters). I could see him also arranging to bring back Ryld, but Ryld not necessarily wanting to give up his worship... whole fields of plot here.
I do find it interesting that folks mention the Seldarine not getting involved. I was thinking the same thing. However, I'm also wondering, what were the dates for all this to occur.... and what were the dates that the assault on Evermeet, the assault on Evereska, the assault on the High Forest by the Fey'ri, and the assault on Cormanthor by the fey'ri? They could have done some shadowing to explain, but perhaps the elven deities were just plain busy recently. Maybe they didn't even know about Lolth's silence until it was pretty much ended because they were so busy with other things.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Sarephim
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2006 :  02:25:30  Show Profile  Visit Sarephim's Homepage Send Sarephim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a very detailed timelime of the Realms.

http://www.geonomicon.com/chronology/A%20Grand%20History%20of%20the%20Realms.pdf
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2006 :  02:37:17  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, the more up-to-date version is stored here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/downloads/grandhistory.zip

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Sarephim
Acolyte

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2006 :  02:45:19  Show Profile  Visit Sarephim's Homepage Send Sarephim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, the more up-to-date version is stored here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/downloads/grandhistory.zip



Ah didn't realize Candlekeep had one.
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe

USA
172 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2006 :  01:36:11  Show Profile  Visit Darth KTrava's Homepage Send Darth KTrava a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sarephim

quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

T
quote:
Originally posted by Sarephim

Seeing as how in FR death is rarely a final thing as opposed to the real world... I would not be surpised if everyone's favorite mage returned.



Well met

Personally, I thought the death of Pharaun was very well done and was an element of the book which really struck it for me Events such as this add that shock element which I love.

Bringing back Pharaun would be wrong, IMHO. Remember what happened to Wulfar? I don't believe this went down very well, so would not bringing Pharaun back cause similar upset?



I always thought the death was poorly done, but that is simply difference in opinion. I do agree however that bringing back Wulfgar was a bad mistake... his death had meaning and then bringing him back sort of nullifed the value.



And I also thought that Ryld's death was rather lame as well. (sorry for the OT post)

But who knows, Pharaun may be back. He was a lively thorn in the females' sides. Being more than just "a mere male" in Drow society. He pushed his limits.

Evil will be dealt with swiftly as it is my duty to remove such evil from my presence.
-Rozhena, Cleric/Divine Champion of Torm
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