| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| xenoss |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 13:52:14
In relation to my previous post about Erevis Cale Trilogy (which I am very likely going to be reading, plus the Sembia book), I would like to ask if there are any novels that are "Rogue books"?
Not counting the Rogues series and City of Ravens (from The Cities series).
I have always been a rogue person and searched for rogue books to read. I already have the above mentioned, but want more.
Beyond WotC and the Realms (slightly out topic here in the Candlekeep), any recommendations on rogue books?
Thank you very much for your help. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sarta |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 02:14:18
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
This does seem to be a favorite strategy. When we were writing CITY OF SPLENDORS, Ed suggested (tongue in cheek) that tucking a rousing elven orgy among the pages of the ms was just the thing to make the editors a) expel coffee through their noses and b) give them something to cut, thus enabling them to feel that they'd done their jobs.
That kind of reminds me of the guerilla tactics the Southpark guys used when trying to get an R rating on the Southpark movie. They knew that the board was having problems with one scene in particular, so they kept redoing it, but making it far more raunchy each time, and submitting it. After about three goes at this, they went back to the original scene, turned the lights out for 30 seconds, resubmitted it, and it got the green light. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 01:35:59
I have to say, the recent comments in this thread are making me crack up.  |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 23:27:19
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
this one de Brie guy
Man, I hope that was a deliberate misspelling... 
Oh it was. People misspell my name -- I'm sympathizing.
I've gotten De buy, De bry, De bou, Debris, Debb, Bie, Bee, Debbie (once I got a solicitor asking "Debbie Erik? Does she live there?"), Debrin, and Desbrin (don't ask).
(I figure if you can't laugh at yourself, then you've got no business laughing at anything, really. )
I struggled for several weeks with some of the editors to get my name spelled properly on a project. The logical part of my name to misspell would be my first name. That happened once on an early project where I got Eyton, changed to Aytawn, and finally to the correct Eytan. But recently, in a major product catalog (and on the company's website), I went through a wrangle to get Bernstein spelled properly. It was going around as Burnstein (and I've never seen the name spelled that way). I was actually worried that it would be spelled that way on the book, but fortunately, the editors stepped in and got it right.
|
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 23:17:13
My favorite bit of weirdness in FR source material is something I ran across in the old Menzoberranzen boxed set. If you read the description of the Spelltower and really visualize what it's saying, you realize the thing looks like a barber pole. I assume that was an intentional joke. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:02:51
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Understood, and only too well. On the whole, there's better information available for fighters than for bards. I still haven't assimilated the notion that bards who have a particular affinity for dragons should play (or for that matter, CAN play) something called a "water pipe." It wouldn't have occurred to me to include a bong in a bard's handbook.
That's actually in one of the official sourcebooks? That's funny, though I'm sure it's unintentionally funny.
|
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 21:41:26
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I still haven't assimilated the notion that bards who have a particular affinity for dragons should play (or for that matter, CAN play) something called a "water pipe." It wouldn't have occurred to me to include a bong in a bard's handbook.
Wow! Inspiration strikes! 
Ahem. Carry on -- carry on. Nothing to see here. 
Cheers |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 21:22:51
I would be leary of any bardic knowlage gained from a bard whose instrument is the water pipe.  |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 20:53:03
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
It's all right--I'm not a bard, I just play one in certain games.
Understood, and only too well. On the whole, there's better information available for fighters than for bards. I still haven't assimilated the notion that bards who have a particular affinity for dragons should play (or for that matter, CAN play) something called a "water pipe." It wouldn't have occurred to me to include a bong in a bard's handbook.
quote:
That's pretty funny, though I must say that writer had cheek!
It was unexpected, certainly. But it serves me right for getting school-marmish with musical terms.  |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 20:30:32
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Wait, you tried to explain to man about something by using foreplay and the female climax as an analogy . . . Indeed, you are an optimist Elaine
You make an excellent point. Needless to say, I dropped this analogy from my repetoire at once. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 20:08:34
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Sorry about the  . I didn't mean to put you on the spot--you're definitely not alone in this; in fact, the comment reminded me of musical misuses I've seen in fantasy novels over the years.
It's all right--I'm not a bard, I just play one in certain games. 
quote:
One writer used the phrase "reached a crescendo." I tried to explain to him that crescendo is the process of getting louder, not the high decible point at the end of that process. When this notion didn't seem to find much resonance, I offered an analogy: a crescendo is the foreplay, not the climax. To which he responded, much to my surprise, "I don't know about that: MY women tend to get pretty loud right about then." Yikes. Talk about a conversation stopper.
That's pretty funny, though I must say that writer had cheek! |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:59:18
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Ah, thanks for putting that out. I'm a bard lover, but I'm not a musician, hence my use of "strumming".
Sorry about the . I didn't mean to put you on the spot--you're definitely not alone in this; in fact, the comment reminded me of musical misuses I've seen in fantasy novels over the years. One writer used the phrase "reached a crescendo." I tried to explain to him that crescendo is the process of getting louder, not the high decible point at the end of that process. When this notion didn't seem to find much resonance, I offered an analogy: a crescendo is the foreplay, not the climax. To which he responded, much to my surprise, "I don't know about that: MY women tend to get pretty loud right about then." Yikes. Talk about a conversation stopper.
And no, that writer was not Ed. He is, elven orgies notwithstanding, ever a gentleman.
Wait, you tried to explain to man about something by using foreplay and the female climax as an analogy . . . Indeed, you are an optimist Elaine |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:51:27
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Ah, thanks for putting that out. I'm a bard lover, but I'm not a musician, hence my use of "strumming".
Sorry about the . I didn't mean to put you on the spot--you're definitely not alone in this; in fact, the comment reminded me of musical misuses I've seen in fantasy novels over the years. One writer used the phrase "reached a crescendo." I tried to explain to him that crescendo is the process of getting louder, not the high decible point at the end of that process. When this notion didn't seem to find much resonance, I offered an analogy: a crescendo is the foreplay, not the climax. To which he responded, much to my surprise, "I don't know about that: MY women tend to get pretty loud right about then." Yikes. Talk about a conversation stopper.
And no, that writer was not Ed. He is, elven orgies notwithstanding, ever a gentleman. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:56:29
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I've gotten De buy, De bry, De bou, Debris, Debb, Bie, Bee, Debbie (once I got a solicitor asking "Debbie Erik? Does she live there?"), Debrin, and Desbrin (don't ask).
quote:
This reminds me of a joke (NOT made by me, tragically) that involves a certain RAS character, French cheese, and kittens, but to share it would be entirely off topic.
Though perhaps I've given it away.
Sorta kinda.
Rogues--did anyone mention Chost from the Cleric Quintet? |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:16:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
this one de Brie guy
Man, I hope that was a deliberate misspelling...
Oh it was. People misspell my name -- I'm sympathizing.
I've gotten De buy, De bry, De bou, Debris, Debb, Bie, Bee, Debbie (once I got a solicitor asking "Debbie Erik? Does she live there?"), Debrin, and Desbrin (don't ask).
(I figure if you can't laugh at yourself, then you've got no business laughing at anything, really. )
quote:
Isn't Brie a type of cheese?
This reminds me of a joke (NOT made by me, tragically) that involves a certain RAS character, French cheese, and kittens, but to share it would be entirely off topic.
Though perhaps I've given it away.
But enough about me -- more about rogues (who aren't me)!
Cheers |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:07:40
Isn't Brie a type of cheese?
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Not entirely up to me, I'm afraid.  Who knows?
It's sad. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:05:18
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
this one de Brie guy
Man, I hope that was a deliberate misspelling... |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 17:31:20
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I would be nice if we haven't heard the last of Greyt...
Sometimes characters are so interesting you don't want them to be dispatched for good.
Not entirely up to me, I'm afraid. Who knows?
Anyway, Greyt is definitely at the "rogue-end" of the bardic spectrum, countered on the opposite side by a rather irascible fellow named Derst in a novel called Ghostwalker by this one de Brie guy which is graced by a rather brilliant cover by a certain Raymond Swanland.
Ok, enough pimping.
Cheers
|
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 17:04:39
I would be nice if we haven't heard the last of Greyt...
Sometimes characters are so interesting you don't want them to be dispatched for good. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:44:46
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
But Erik, I know you like rogue because I just read about Twilight . . . (pry, pry)
Twilight is a sort of goddess, isn't she?
Though Derst is pretty cool too, particularly in conjunction with Bars and the lovely Arya.
And Alin. In his own sad, painfully bemusing way.
And, you know, I could do much with a Dharan Greyt story about. . .
And that little (BUZZ!!!) NDA.
And, whoop, (Oh no! Here comes. . .) NDA.
Heh.
Cheers |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:19:05
But Erik, I know you like rogues because I just read about Twilight . . . (pry, pry) |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 15:59:32
quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
NDA that Erik mentioned is the bane of all of us fanboys (and girls). Its short for Non-Disclosure Agreement. Meaning that he isn't allowed to talk about something that he'd absolutely love to talk about, due to the possibility that it could be published in the future.
Yep -- thanks, Sarta.
To be specific, it's something I COULD talk at least a small bit about, but I'm going to exercise a little self control. . . and I suppose a trifle sadism's in there too.
Suffice it to say, I like bards AND rogues.
In other, totally unrelated news, one of the main characters of Ghostwalker is a bard. But that's neither here nor there.
Cheers |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 15:53:28
Ah, thanks for putting that out. I'm a bard lover, but I'm not a musician, hence my use of "strumming". |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 12:40:12
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A-hem.
Yes, it's been a cause of some wry hilarity among we Knights that TSR editors managed to chop seven or eight scenes of Storm being a bard, over the years, but left in (and made so much fuss about) one nude woodchopping scene. 
On the other hand, Ed used to write some REALLY over the top sex and banana peel/British bedroom -style farce scenes that he sent just to the editors, for fun, not as part of novel manuscripts, and at least they had the good taste not to publish those.
I imagine some of them got pinned up on cubicle walls for years, though . . .
This does seem to be a favorite strategy. When we were writing CITY OF SPLENDORS, Ed suggested (tongue in cheek) that tucking a rousing elven orgy among the pages of the ms was just the thing to make the editors a) expel coffee through their noses and b) give them something to cut, thus enabling them to feel that they'd done their jobs.
And as I mention in Ed's thread one time, during a discussion of editorial cuts, I mentioned an exchange from THE MAGEHOUND that ended up on the cutting room floor. Tzigone, who was training as a mage, was supposed to be copying a spell onto sheets of parchments. Instead of doing it by hand, she tried a cantrip. Things didn't go well, much ink was spilled on parchment and elsewhere. Matteo came in and inquired about the damage. No loss of life, Tzigone responded, unless you include parchment, in which case she'd "buggered more sheep than a Calishite shepherd." This phrase was cut. No large surprise there. But Ed advised me that I should have made an issue of this, and insisted that I "felt very strongly about sheep buggering." It would have been cut regardless, but he argued that the editors would have been so appalled they'd be less inclined to cut elsewhere.
The things authors do to amuse themselves. :)
Moving on. Since we're all bard-lovers here, perhaps you'll permit me to speak to a bardic issue that frequently crops up in fantasy. For the record, "strum" is probably not the best verb to apply to harping. It means to sweep your fingers or a plectrum (aka "pick") over the strings. Guitars (yartings, in the Realms) are frequently strummed. I suppose this term could also be applied to lutes, though real-world lute technique doesn't include the sort of rhythmic "strumming" common to certain styles of guitar playing. When you "strum" a harp, you end up with a glissando, which is certainly done in harp music, but as an occasional ornament and not an all-purpose technique. In general, harp strings are plucked, not strummed. (Harpers frequently "roll" a chord, which means to play notes one at a time in rapid succession. The SOUND is very similar to a chord strummed on a fretted instrument, but the technique is quite different.) There are exceptions, of course; for example, the surmandal is strummed to add a sort of drone effect in Indian classical music. This instrument looks a bit like the zither or autoharp, with strings strung over a flat soundboard.
|
| Faramicos |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 09:18:49
Read "Servant of the Shard". There is plenty of rogue action in that book. And with one of the greatest rogues of the Realms. Artemis Entreri... Go ahead and enjoy. |
| Chosen of Bane |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:37:26
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
My heroine Shamur Uskevren in the novel The Shattered Mask is a rogue.
*slaps own forehead* Ack. How did I forget to recommend that?
And... there's Sands of the Soul and The Crimson Gold, I suppose, dealing with Shamur's daughter, also a rogue. But those books did absolutely nothing for me, personally; the same goes for the Scions of Arrabar trilogy (contains a Thazienne-ish figure, only more annoying and even less interesting).
No need to slap the forehead. The original poster mentioned that he's going to be reading the Sembia books already. |
| Sarta |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:35:31
quote:
Originally posted by xenoss
Beyond WotC and the Realms (slightly out topic here in the Candlekeep), any recommendations on rogue books?
I'll answer quickly and to the point here in an effort to appease our staff-wielding Alaundo:
Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar novels - must reads. You really should do yourself a favor and pick up some of the novels of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. These were definitely the inspiration for the Gord the Rogue books written by Gary Gygax. Pulp fantasy at its best.
Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series of books are also very good.
Some of the Thieves World novels are quite good.
Straying away from fantasy, you may also want to pick up the various Stainless Steel Rat novels by Harry Harrison. Some of them were wickedly fun tales of intergalactic thievery.
Getting back to Realmslore:
NDA that Erik mentioned is the bane of all of us fanboys (and girls). Its short for Non-Disclosure Agreement. Meaning that he isn't allowed to talk about something that he'd absolutely love to talk about, due to the possibility that it could be published in the future.
Here's to hoping that it is near future, rather than far future.
Sarta |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:04:34
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A-hem.
Yes, it's been a cause of some wry hilarity among we Knights that TSR editors managed to chop seven or eight scenes of Storm being a bard, over the years, but left in (and made so much fuss about) one nude woodchopping scene.
That's pretty sad though...Storm's a bard (The Bard of Shadowdale, no less!), so why not let her be a bard? And I would have loved to have read those lyrics you mentioned. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:55:05
A-hem.
Yes, it's been a cause of some wry hilarity among we Knights that TSR editors managed to chop seven or eight scenes of Storm being a bard, over the years, but left in (and made so much fuss about) one nude woodchopping scene.
On the other hand, Ed used to write some REALLY over the top sex and banana peel/British bedroom -style farce scenes that he sent just to the editors, for fun, not as part of novel manuscripts, and at least they had the good taste not to publish those.
I imagine some of them got pinned up on cubicle walls for years, though . . .
love,
THO |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:44:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Two scenes of Storm harping and singing (complete with lyrics) were cut from STORMLIGHT, unfortunately.
That's too bad. I've seen pictures of Storm with her harp, but rarely if ever get to read about her strumming it. :-/ |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:42:42
On monks: Sorta kinda rogues...but not really. I could be wrong, but when someone says they are looking for a rogue-type character, I doubt that a monk is what they are looking for. In any case, Danica, the monk in question, is ultimately much more of a warrior than a rogue (at least as she is portrayed in the novels). |
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