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xenoss
Acolyte
5 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 13:52:14
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In relation to my previous post about Erevis Cale Trilogy (which I am very likely going to be reading, plus the Sembia book), I would like to ask if there are any novels that are "Rogue books"?
Not counting the Rogues series and City of Ravens (from The Cities series).
I have always been a rogue person and searched for rogue books to read. I already have the above mentioned, but want more.
Beyond WotC and the Realms (slightly out topic here in the Candlekeep), any recommendations on rogue books?
Thank you very much for your help.
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the obsolete
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 14:25:57
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| check out the book ,escape from undermountain, by mark anthony. it is about artek "the knife" ar'talen, a popular known thief out of waterdeep. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 14:35:18
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Believe it or not, Elminster: Making of a Mage is a pretty good story about a rogue, well, about 1/3 of the book is about a rogue.
One of the main characters of the Avatar Trilogy (Cyric) is a rogue.
Finder's Stone Trilogy as an entertaining halfling rogue (Olive Ruskettle)
Shandril's Saga has an entertaining rogue or two (thinking of Torm)
Year of Rogue Dragons has a halfling rogue as one of the main characters.
All Salvatore Novels feature at least one rogue (Regis and Artemis)
--------------------------------------------------
But really, you've already read the two main series about rogues: Erevis Cale and Rogues. |
Edited by - Chosen of Bane on 27 Feb 2006 14:36:10 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 14:59:25
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| all of the above and then: king pinch, several of the harpers novels have rogue characters, EC's novels with Arliyn and Danillo, I believe the lost empire novels have rogue like characters also. Salvatores, cadderly series features a monk and EC's trilogy, counselors and kings has a thief character. I could go on, many, many FR novels have some sort of roguish character, I can only think of a few that don't. I have just about every FR novel, let me know and I can dig for specifics if you want. |
Edited by - scererar on 27 Feb 2006 15:02:33 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 15:40:18
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Salvatores, cadderly series features a monk
Monks are rogue-like?
Whut. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 16:38:28
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| The City of Ravens by Richard Baker has a main-character that's pretty much a blueprint for a rogue. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Dremvek
Seeker
70 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 18:47:16
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| How about a more specific request than the OP - do any of the mentioned books above feature Bards in particular? I know 1 of the books in The Rogues series does, but most of the others feature rogues as theives - hiding from the spotlight rather than reveling in it. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 18:53:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dremvek
How about a more specific request than the OP - do any of the mentioned books above feature Bards in particular? I know 1 of the books in The Rogues series does, but most of the others feature rogues as theives - hiding from the spotlight rather than reveling in it.
But bards aren't rogues. So uhm, whut?
In any case, EC's Song & Swords series features a bard, most especially in Elfsong. Then there's of course Stormlight, but I'm not sure how bard-y Storm behaves in that novel. |
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SheriffJoe
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 19:14:32
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| The Finder's Stone trilogy has an excellent bard character in it (and a rogue who passes as a bard and a fighter who sings very well...). Aside from that, the trilogy is VERY well written and a fun read. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 19:21:50
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Ah.......
NDA.
Damn.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dremvek
Seeker
70 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 21:06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
But bards aren't rogues. So uhm, whut?
I've always considered them rogues - if not exactly in the same way, perhaps as a very close first cousin to rogues. Plus they're a featured "rogue" in the rogues series - isn't that enough?  |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 22:20:13
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My heroine Shamur Uskevren in the novel The Shattered Mask is a rogue.
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 23:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
My heroine Shamur Uskevren in the novel The Shattered Mask is a rogue.
*slaps own forehead* Ack. How did I forget to recommend that?
And... there's Sands of the Soul and The Crimson Gold, I suppose, dealing with Shamur's daughter, also a rogue. But those books did absolutely nothing for me, personally; the same goes for the Scions of Arrabar trilogy (contains a Thazienne-ish figure, only more annoying and even less interesting). |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 23:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Ah.......
NDA.
Damn.
Cheers
There is a bard character in Erik's recent novel, Ghostwalker. :)
As for Storm in Stormlight...she doesn't act too bardy, but she does sing as I recall. :)
The song dragon in the Rogue Dragons trilogy could pass for a bard IMO, but I once read her stats in a Dragon mag and found out that she isn't technically a bard. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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xenoss
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:16:55
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Thanks a bunch folks. You people here at Candlekeep are extremely helpful!
I read Ghostwalker, City of Ravens, and the Rogues series, EC's C&K series and the Harpers series, among others. Cant get enough though.
Erik Scott de Bie NDA? is he implying Depth of Madness? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:37:10
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Erik has said before (I recall) that he likes bards, and many of his stories feature them. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Salvatores, cadderly series features a monk
Monks are rogue-like?
Whut.
yes |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:41:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Dremvek
How about a more specific request than the OP - do any of the mentioned books above feature Bards in particular? I know 1 of the books in The Rogues series does, but most of the others feature rogues as theives - hiding from the spotlight rather than reveling in it.
But bards aren't rogues. So uhm, whut?
In any case, EC's Song & Swords series features a bard, most especially in Elfsong. Then there's of course Stormlight, but I'm not sure how bard-y Storm behaves in that novel.
I would say bards also winterfox. I think 3E distinguishes between the classes more, but look back at the realms and you will see commonalities between rogues, monks, as well as bards |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:42:10
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Two scenes of Storm harping and singing (complete with lyrics) were cut from STORMLIGHT, unfortunately.
And I second what Chosen of Bane said about ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE being one-third a rogue novel - - especially if you “add in” all but one of the outtake chapters from that novel, that are posted on the WotC website (fastest way to find them is to call up Ed’s Author Bio, scroll to the bottom of the novels list, and there are the links, to all but his first Spin A Yarn, which seems to have fallen off the server for good.
love,
THO
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:42:42
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| On monks: Sorta kinda rogues...but not really. I could be wrong, but when someone says they are looking for a rogue-type character, I doubt that a monk is what they are looking for. In any case, Danica, the monk in question, is ultimately much more of a warrior than a rogue (at least as she is portrayed in the novels). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 Feb 2006 01:45:10 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Two scenes of Storm harping and singing (complete with lyrics) were cut from STORMLIGHT, unfortunately.
That's too bad. I've seen pictures of Storm with her harp, but rarely if ever get to read about her strumming it. :-/ |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:55:05
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A-hem.
Yes, it's been a cause of some wry hilarity among we Knights that TSR editors managed to chop seven or eight scenes of Storm being a bard, over the years, but left in (and made so much fuss about) one nude woodchopping scene. 
On the other hand, Ed used to write some REALLY over the top sex and banana peel/British bedroom -style farce scenes that he sent just to the editors, for fun, not as part of novel manuscripts, and at least they had the good taste not to publish those.
I imagine some of them got pinned up on cubicle walls for years, though . . .
love,
THO |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A-hem.
Yes, it's been a cause of some wry hilarity among we Knights that TSR editors managed to chop seven or eight scenes of Storm being a bard, over the years, but left in (and made so much fuss about) one nude woodchopping scene.
 That's pretty sad though...Storm's a bard (The Bard of Shadowdale, no less!), so why not let her be a bard? And I would have loved to have read those lyrics you mentioned. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by xenoss
Beyond WotC and the Realms (slightly out topic here in the Candlekeep), any recommendations on rogue books?
I'll answer quickly and to the point here in an effort to appease our staff-wielding Alaundo:
Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar novels - must reads. You really should do yourself a favor and pick up some of the novels of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. These were definitely the inspiration for the Gord the Rogue books written by Gary Gygax. Pulp fantasy at its best.
Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series of books are also very good.
Some of the Thieves World novels are quite good.
Straying away from fantasy, you may also want to pick up the various Stainless Steel Rat novels by Harry Harrison. Some of them were wickedly fun tales of intergalactic thievery.
Getting back to Realmslore:
NDA that Erik mentioned is the bane of all of us fanboys (and girls). Its short for Non-Disclosure Agreement. Meaning that he isn't allowed to talk about something that he'd absolutely love to talk about, due to the possibility that it could be published in the future.
Here's to hoping that it is near future, rather than far future.
Sarta |
Edited by - Sarta on 28 Feb 2006 02:36:57 |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
My heroine Shamur Uskevren in the novel The Shattered Mask is a rogue.
*slaps own forehead* Ack. How did I forget to recommend that?
And... there's Sands of the Soul and The Crimson Gold, I suppose, dealing with Shamur's daughter, also a rogue. But those books did absolutely nothing for me, personally; the same goes for the Scions of Arrabar trilogy (contains a Thazienne-ish figure, only more annoying and even less interesting).
No need to slap the forehead. The original poster mentioned that he's going to be reading the Sembia books already. |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 09:18:49
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| Read "Servant of the Shard". There is plenty of rogue action in that book. And with one of the greatest rogues of the Realms. Artemis Entreri... Go ahead and enjoy. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 12:40:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A-hem.
Yes, it's been a cause of some wry hilarity among we Knights that TSR editors managed to chop seven or eight scenes of Storm being a bard, over the years, but left in (and made so much fuss about) one nude woodchopping scene.
On the other hand, Ed used to write some REALLY over the top sex and banana peel/British bedroom -style farce scenes that he sent just to the editors, for fun, not as part of novel manuscripts, and at least they had the good taste not to publish those.
I imagine some of them got pinned up on cubicle walls for years, though . . .
This does seem to be a favorite strategy. When we were writing CITY OF SPLENDORS, Ed suggested (tongue in cheek) that tucking a rousing elven orgy among the pages of the ms was just the thing to make the editors a) expel coffee through their noses and b) give them something to cut, thus enabling them to feel that they'd done their jobs.
And as I mention in Ed's thread one time, during a discussion of editorial cuts, I mentioned an exchange from THE MAGEHOUND that ended up on the cutting room floor. Tzigone, who was training as a mage, was supposed to be copying a spell onto sheets of parchments. Instead of doing it by hand, she tried a cantrip. Things didn't go well, much ink was spilled on parchment and elsewhere. Matteo came in and inquired about the damage. No loss of life, Tzigone responded, unless you include parchment, in which case she'd "buggered more sheep than a Calishite shepherd." This phrase was cut. No large surprise there. But Ed advised me that I should have made an issue of this, and insisted that I "felt very strongly about sheep buggering." It would have been cut regardless, but he argued that the editors would have been so appalled they'd be less inclined to cut elsewhere.
The things authors do to amuse themselves. :)
Moving on. Since we're all bard-lovers here, perhaps you'll permit me to speak to a bardic issue that frequently crops up in fantasy. For the record, "strum" is probably not the best verb to apply to harping. It means to sweep your fingers or a plectrum (aka "pick") over the strings. Guitars (yartings, in the Realms) are frequently strummed. I suppose this term could also be applied to lutes, though real-world lute technique doesn't include the sort of rhythmic "strumming" common to certain styles of guitar playing. When you "strum" a harp, you end up with a glissando, which is certainly done in harp music, but as an occasional ornament and not an all-purpose technique. In general, harp strings are plucked, not strummed. (Harpers frequently "roll" a chord, which means to play notes one at a time in rapid succession. The SOUND is very similar to a chord strummed on a fretted instrument, but the technique is quite different.) There are exceptions, of course; for example, the surmandal is strummed to add a sort of drone effect in Indian classical music. This instrument looks a bit like the zither or autoharp, with strings strung over a flat soundboard.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 28 Feb 2006 13:11:15 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 15:53:28
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Ah, thanks for putting that out. I'm a bard lover, but I'm not a musician, hence my use of "strumming". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 15:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
NDA that Erik mentioned is the bane of all of us fanboys (and girls). Its short for Non-Disclosure Agreement. Meaning that he isn't allowed to talk about something that he'd absolutely love to talk about, due to the possibility that it could be published in the future.
Yep -- thanks, Sarta.
To be specific, it's something I COULD talk at least a small bit about, but I'm going to exercise a little self control. . . and I suppose a trifle sadism's in there too.
Suffice it to say, I like bards AND rogues.
In other, totally unrelated news, one of the main characters of Ghostwalker is a bard. But that's neither here nor there.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 28 Feb 2006 16:00:27 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:19:05
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| But Erik, I know you like rogues because I just read about Twilight . . . (pry, pry) |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 28 Feb 2006 16:50:08 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 16:44:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
But Erik, I know you like rogue because I just read about Twilight . . . (pry, pry)
Twilight is a sort of goddess, isn't she?
Though Derst is pretty cool too, particularly in conjunction with Bars and the lovely Arya.
And Alin. In his own sad, painfully bemusing way.
And, you know, I could do much with a Dharan Greyt story about. . .
And that little (BUZZ!!!) NDA.
And, whoop, (Oh no! Here comes. . .) NDA.
Heh.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rogue novels
