| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 14:01:24
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for the short story entitled "Necessary Sacrifices", by Lisa Smedman, from the Realms of the Elves anthology.
Please discuss herein. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| RevJest |
Posted - 21 Jan 2007 : 09:04:25
An enjoyable story that has an important moral message. However, I think Lisa might have taken some information about the Fugue Plain a bit too literally. There is no way that I would ever believe that the Seldarine would allow an elven child to end up in some sort of hell. Nor any good human, dwarven, halfling, or gnome deity. And Ed has, in fact, discussed this issue in his questions thread. So while the basic story is great, the foundation of the story is in my opinion very, very flawed. There are no babies wandering Kelemvor's realm as faithless.
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| TobyKikami |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 18:58:12
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
Haha its also really twisted cos u know the people who killed him are gonna have fun with Shevarash in the afterlife and we're faced with the unsettling prospect of the true hero facing damnation for his ultimate sacrifice, truly gothic :D
Well, it's debatable how much "fun" they'd have considering the prohibition on smiling's likely still in effect, but yeah, they'd get to feel righteous about it.
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
If Corellon lets them into Arvandor when they die, IŽll be very surprised.
Indeed, in Demihuman Deities it made mention of some elves worrying about the afterlife issue. (technically, it said Arvanaith, but you get the picture). And in that cosmology Shevarash spent a good bit of his time bumming around Limbo with Fenmarel Mestarine, so it wasn't implausible. |
| khorne |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 20:16:03
Before I read this, I had some sympathies with the worshippers of Shevarash, but now.....
TheyŽre demented lunatics, the whole lot of them. If Corellon lets them into Arvandor when they die, IŽll be very surprised. |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 07:14:37
Rino is correct-amundo.
Some Elves tend to have specific patrons, but in general they worship the entire Seldarine as divine and worthy of praise. Specifically, Sun Elves tend to focus on Corellon, Lebelas, and Hanali (something that many people miss when they talk about how stoic and boring and such Sun Elves are); Wood Elves go for Rillifane and Solonor; Avariels with Aerdrie Faenya; Moon Elves with Sehanine and Angarradh; and Aquatic Elves with Deep Sashelas.
But.. Yup. They're very polytheistic. |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:50:22
The problem is we don't know and what we do know doesnt comfort us :D
Thats why its kinda Gothic |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:19:27
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
Haha its also really twisted cos u know the people who killed him are gonna have fun with Shevarash in the afterlife and we're faced with the unsettling prospect of the true hero facing damnation for his ultimate sacrifice, truly gothic :D
Well, it's possible, but I don't think it's that clear that Corellon would reject him (after all, don't most elves revere the Selderine in general?). |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:10:41
Haha its also really twisted cos u know the people who killed him are gonna have fun with Shevarash in the afterlife and we're faced with the unsettling prospect of the true hero facing damnation for his ultimate sacrifice, truly gothic :D |
| GothicDan |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 06:03:39
A lot of bit. :) |
| Aes Tryl |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:38:08
its a really melancholic story about how one's soul eventually becomes darkened by that relentless quest for vengeance, but yes the ending was really weird, I dont believe Sorrel deserves the wall at all, i suspect in the Great Wheel cosmology he'd have become a petitioner in a goodly plain but the Great Tree cosmology and realmsian rules kinda screw it up a bit |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:20:14
quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar
One premise of the story is utterly horrific. Because his son died young, he goes to the fugue plane as one of teh faithless!!! How come no one else questions this, can you really imagine Corellon or any of the Seldarine (or any other "good" pantheon or deity for that matter) allowing this.
Actually, I was bothered by that myself, because it touches on a real life religious concept that bothers me (I don't want to discuss it here, as it is not the place). I didn't think the gods of Faerun (at least the goodly ones) would abandon the soul of a child who is too young and innocent to be pledged to any god. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 05:18:02
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
A heartbreaking story, but one thing honestly irriated me: At the end, are we to assume the gods have abandoned our hero and the drow on the Fugue Plain? He was more faithful to Elven Gods then than anyone else in his party...
I was wondering about that, myself.
Anyway, even though some of the writing near the end of the story was a little unsubtle (it should be obvious that the vengeful elves were acting just like drow without black skin, for example), I thought the story as a whole was wonderful. I think Lisa Smedman did a fine job of showing what it feels like to be an outsider trying to ingratiate oneself into a group (who hasn't felt that pain before?), and some of the writing made me quite misty-eyed. And if I recall correctly, Sorell does in fact smile at the end when he is will the drow child--nice touch there. |
| TobyKikami |
Posted - 06 May 2006 : 17:43:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It wasn't because his son died, it was because the death of his son caused him to lose his faith. Lots of elves have had children that died. You think Corellon would punish them for that?
No, before all that his son went to the Fugue Plane, or at least his wife thought he did - that was part of the reason she freaked (besides the obvious). And yes, at first glance it does seem quite nonsensical.
Then again, it also works the other way - under that logic, if his son went to the Seldarine by default the drow child probably would've gone to Lolth, though whether that would've been better or worse than rotting in a wall is debatable. I suppose it would be part of the "fairness" setup.
Incidentally, Prince of Lies made specific mention of children in the Wall of Faithless - but that was when Cyric was in charge.
quote:
One question I had is: where is Shevarash's Oak? Has it been detailed anywhere?
As noted by the story, it's in Cormanthor. It's mentioned in Demihuman Deities, under "Major Centers of Worship."
Anyway, I did like this story. It was the kind of sad I don't mind. And it looks like the author did her homework, at least regarding Shevarash. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 May 2006 : 16:41:18
quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar
One premise of the story is utterly horrific. Because his son died young, he goes to the fugue plane as one of teh faithless!!! How come no one else questions this, can you really imagine Corellon or any of the Seldarine (or any other "good" pantheon or deity for that matter) allowing this.
I understand it was used for the story purposes but even so, the premise doesnt stand up to much scrutiny IMO.
It wasn't because his son died, it was because the death of his son caused him to lose his faith. Lots of elves have had children that died. You think Corellon would punish them for that? |
| Tamsar |
Posted - 06 May 2006 : 13:18:01
One premise of the story is utterly horrific. Because his son died young, he goes to the fugue plane as one of teh faithless!!! How come no one else questions this, can you really imagine Corellon or any of the Seldarine (or any other "good" pantheon or deity for that matter) allowing this.
I understand it was used for the story purposes but even so, the premise doesnt stand up to much scrutiny IMO. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 20:56:13
Except that the according to the Silent Slayers, the child was a drow, and ergo was not innocent. To them he was betraying them by protecting the child. |
| khorne |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 19:41:43
Aren`t the Silent Slayers going to catch hell for this? I mean: "We murdered our own comrade in cold blood because he was trying to stop us from murdering an innocent child". |
| Swordsage |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 10:45:23
Of all the short stories in the anthology, this was the only one that didn't have any "???" moments for me. Everything was true to the Realms, the characters were interesting, the story well-paced and the conclusion poignant. I enjoyed it - and went out and bought the first of Lisa's Hlondeth trilogy as a consequence. Nice work.
The Swordsage
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| ShadowJack |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 15:20:04
This is a story I was wishing would end differently. I knew it was going to end bad for Sorrell, I just did not know how. Haunting is the right word. In hating your enemies to that degree, you become just like them... Sorrell, however, saw through this trap at the end, and proved he was more than hate. I believe Corellon will honor him with a place in Arvandor. It is interesting in the end that he made the same sacrifice for this drow child that his wife made for their child. This story left me feeling... unsettled? Great story. |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 21:04:17
Oh, one thing I found odd in the story was where Sorrell was given the boots of silent striding, which also levitated. Wasn't it a bit strange how the command words worked without anyone wearing them?! Surely anyone knowing the command words (which we're exactly hard), could raise the wearer into the air and keep playing with him and counteracting his command words  |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 21:02:20
quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati
"Heartbreaking" is an apt description, as someone else used. I would also say Haunting. It stays with you.
It certainly does! I'll always remember this story. It's tragic and holds a message. There are arguments for the actions taken at the end by the Silent Slayers.
One question I had is: where is Shevarash's Oak? Has it been detailed anywhere? |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 21:00:23
I loved this story!
From the opening page, it drew me in straight away. The scene at the Old Skull cellar was very tense and eerie and just wanted me to read on and on. Beautiful scene! It really made me feel edgy and gave that stealthy side to the drow.
Another part of the story which I thought was VERY well done and showed something in a different light (pardon the pun) was the infravision description, when Sorrell was viewing the spectrum of colors and how different parts of the body showed, even the white clouds of breath. Descriptions such as this really brought the Underdark to life for me in this story.
Great stuff all the way through the underdark travel with the Silent Slayers. I felt scared for them 
I liked how the story then went back to show Sorrell's inclusion and give the full explanation of the events from the beginning of the story at the Old Skull Inn.
The ending was very sad and I could imagine Sorrell's feelings suddenly coming to the forefront and recalling his son when he found the drow child. It's a hard decision and judgement to make, but the Silent Slayers had a mission, and they can be blinded from seeing reason and seeing a difference when they are so intend on destroying the thing they hate. Excellent scene! Wonderful story!
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| Beezy |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 05:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think seeing him alone on the Fugue Plain with the child was a way to show that he was accepting the consequenses of his actions, that despite knowing that Corellon and Shevarath both might not claim him, he still considered it more worth while to protect another innocent child than to honor his gods. They were newly arrived, so I would say that it is entirely possible that Corellon may show up and claim them. Its pretty open, but Sorrell, in order to be justified, had to be shown as standing on his own. So what happens next is a matter of perspective, but I think he really did need to show up in the afterlife on his own terms.
I did really like this story. Lisa is really doing a lot of good work, and she is a boon to have as a writer for the Realms (and I feel REALLY bad for not picking up her latest trilogy yet . . . I'll have to rectify that).
I just finished book I and started book II and I am really liking the story line and characters. |
| Mkhaiwati |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 00:53:35
Well, after finishing the book, I can say that it was not my most favorite story, but it is certaintly the one that sticks most in my mind.
I think I may have to pick up her latest series, now. She seems to strike some chord in me, I am not sure I really enjoy it.
"Heartbreaking" is an apt description, as someone else used. I would also say Haunting. It stays with you.
Mkhaiwati |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 00:12:41
Yeah, but given what we know, he's gonna get ushered into the realm of the Faithless and tossed in the wall. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 17:12:51
I think seeing him alone on the Fugue Plain with the child was a way to show that he was accepting the consequenses of his actions, that despite knowing that Corellon and Shevarath both might not claim him, he still considered it more worth while to protect another innocent child than to honor his gods. They were newly arrived, so I would say that it is entirely possible that Corellon may show up and claim them. Its pretty open, but Sorrell, in order to be justified, had to be shown as standing on his own. So what happens next is a matter of perspective, but I think he really did need to show up in the afterlife on his own terms.
I did really like this story. Lisa is really doing a lot of good work, and she is a boon to have as a writer for the Realms (and I feel REALLY bad for not picking up her latest trilogy yet . . . I'll have to rectify that). |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 23:25:59
A heartbreaking story, but one thing honestly irriated me: At the end, are we to assume the gods have abandoned our hero and the drow on the Fugue Plain? He was more faithful to Elven Gods then than anyone else in his party... |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 02:26:24
It should be noted that Shevarash does , barely, recognise the existance of good Drow. It should follow that his followers will learn of this over time. |
| Cam Beul |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 02:10:57
If the followers of Shevarash were sometimes considered evil, other elves would still consider it necessary. The fact that they do what they can to keep drow at bay by striking at them leads one to believe that they have probably inadvertantly saved the lives of innocents by killing those drow that would have made surface raids. The followers of Shevarash as a whole are still several steps up from the Eldreth Veluuthra(sp?). But when you think about it, how many orcs have Drizzt slain that had the potential to turn to good? Sometimes I think more pity is lent to drow because their intelligence makes them more resemblant of humanity. |
| Conlon |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 00:28:35
Most of us would associate drow-killers as do-gooders, especially after reading about the drow murdering a small child. But then the do-gooders do something that make us feel a little sick inside, by killing an innocent who has the potential to become an evil-doer. Does the end justify the means? Does protecting elves from drow at all costs make sense? Even if the cost is killing an elf who is trying to do good? Is it "good" to protect a drow?
I enjoyed the story very much. I tried to envision myself as one of the avenging warriors, exploring the Underdark, hunting down the murderous drow, armed with elven magic items to reduce the drows' advantage. But as the story went on, I realized that the drow hunters were not the sort I would want to associate with. Their souls had darkened from yearning only for retribution, revenge, and death. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 13:40:04
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
Wouldn't their actions make them basically as bad as the drow? They were going to kill a defenseless child (evil yes but not much of a threat) and when their comrade disagreed with that decision he was killed immediately. I guess that is what I was struggling with.
If you recall near the end of the story, Sorrell, hearing the party member's urging him to kill the child, thinks "had their skin been black, they could have been drow" (ROE, pg. 140)
I think that your belief that their actions make them basically as bad as the drow is the central theme of the story. |
