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 Realms of the Elves: "Necessary Sacrifices"
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Alaundo
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Posted - 30 Jan 2006 :  14:01:24  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well met

This is a Book Club thread for the short story entitled "Necessary Sacrifices", by Lisa Smedman, from the Realms of the Elves anthology.

Please discuss herein.

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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2006 :  15:39:29  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heartbreaking.

I've never quite found Shevarash interesting. But, I really enjoyed reading this tale which showed a diverse group of that god's followers. Now, I am a big fan of Lisa Smedman's writing. But, her tale in "Realms of the Dragons" was the saddest story within that anthology. Armed with this knowledge, and the fact this tale is about a new Shevarash convert who has lost a child and I think the ending was slightly foreshadowed. Nevertheless, I still found it emotionally moving to read and heartbreaking.
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Beezy
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USA
280 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2006 :  22:21:57  Show Profile  Visit Beezy's Homepage Send Beezy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really liked this short story. Typically in a story involving the drow you are reading about one of them as the protag but in this story they are being hunted, I enjoyed that.

I need a little clearing up of the ending. Was he killed by someone in his group for trying to save the drow child? Or was it accidental?
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SiriusBlack
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USA
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Posted - 11 Feb 2006 :  23:28:27  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I need a little clearing up of the ending. Was he killed by someone in his group for trying to save the drow child? Or was it accidental?



I thought it was clear that his own party members killed him at the end. At least that's how myself and another reader in my household interpreted the ending.
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Kuje
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7915 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2006 :  23:32:58  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I need a little clearing up of the ending. Was he killed by someone in his group for trying to save the drow child? Or was it accidental?



I thought it was clear that his own party members killed him at the end. At least that's how myself and another reader in my household interpreted the ending.



As did I. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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darkcrow
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USA
269 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2006 :  02:17:48  Show Profile  Visit darkcrow's Homepage Send darkcrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This was a very sad story. I can't believe he shot him. And he died before he had his vengance. A good story though. I always liked Lisa's work.

May Tymora smile upon ye
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Beezy
Learned Scribe

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2006 :  08:00:38  Show Profile  Visit Beezy's Homepage Send Beezy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The part that was unclear to me is wether his party killed him on purpose for not wanting to kill the child or if it was an accident that happened when someone tried to slay the child and he was in the way? I am going to assume it was delibrate?
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SiriusBlack
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USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2006 :  14:13:50  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

The part that was unclear to me is wether his party killed him on purpose for not wanting to kill the child or if it was an accident that happened when someone tried to slay the child and he was in the way? I am going to assume it was delibrate?



I took it as a deliberate act.
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Kuje
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USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2006 :  16:09:18  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

The part that was unclear to me is wether his party killed him on purpose for not wanting to kill the child or if it was an accident that happened when someone tried to slay the child and he was in the way? I am going to assume it was delibrate?



I took it as a deliberate act.



As did I.

I feel like I just experienced a deju vu. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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darkcrow
Learned Scribe

USA
269 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2006 :  18:56:05  Show Profile  Visit darkcrow's Homepage Send darkcrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would have to safely assume that the Silent Slayers felt that if they had to shoot the drow child through him then so be it. It was one of those adventuring split second decisions.

May Tymora smile upon ye
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 12 Feb 2006 :  19:26:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

The part that was unclear to me is wether his party killed him on purpose for not wanting to kill the child or if it was an accident that happened when someone tried to slay the child and he was in the way? I am going to assume it was delibrate?



He was trying to shelter a drow -- the enemy. By defending an enemy, he was seen as one. So it was deliberate.

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Beezy
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Posted - 13 Feb 2006 :  08:33:51  Show Profile  Visit Beezy's Homepage Send Beezy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wouldn't their actions make them basically as bad as the drow? They were going to kill a defenseless child (evil yes but not much of a threat) and when their comrade disagreed with that decision he was killed immediately. I guess that is what I was struggling with.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 13 Feb 2006 :  11:27:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

Wouldn't their actions make them basically as bad as the drow? They were going to kill a defenseless child (evil yes but not much of a threat) and when their comrade disagreed with that decision he was killed immediately. I guess that is what I was struggling with.



To followers of Shevarash, all drow are evil and should be killed. A drow child could grow up to kill an elf, so slaying a drow child to prevent that possible future elven death is perfectly acceptable.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Feb 2006 11:27:59
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SiriusBlack
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USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2006 :  13:40:04  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy

Wouldn't their actions make them basically as bad as the drow? They were going to kill a defenseless child (evil yes but not much of a threat) and when their comrade disagreed with that decision he was killed immediately. I guess that is what I was struggling with.



If you recall near the end of the story, Sorrell, hearing the party member's urging him to kill the child, thinks "had their skin been black, they could have been drow" (ROE, pg. 140)

I think that your belief that their actions make them basically as bad as the drow is the central theme of the story.
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Conlon
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Canada
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Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  00:28:35  Show Profile  Visit Conlon's Homepage Send Conlon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Most of us would associate drow-killers as do-gooders, especially after reading about the drow murdering a small child. But then the do-gooders do something that make us feel a little sick inside, by killing an innocent who has the potential to become an evil-doer. Does the end justify the means? Does protecting elves from drow at all costs make sense? Even if the cost is killing an elf who is trying to do good? Is it "good" to protect a drow?

I enjoyed the story very much. I tried to envision myself as one of the avenging warriors, exploring the Underdark, hunting down the murderous drow, armed with elven magic items to reduce the drows' advantage. But as the story went on, I realized that the drow hunters were not the sort I would want to associate with. Their souls had darkened from yearning only for retribution, revenge, and death.

My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action.
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Cam Beul
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USA
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Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  02:10:57  Show Profile  Visit Cam Beul's Homepage Send Cam Beul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the followers of Shevarash were sometimes considered evil, other elves would still consider it necessary. The fact that they do what they can to keep drow at bay by striking at them leads one to believe that they have probably inadvertantly saved the lives of innocents by killing those drow that would have made surface raids. The followers of Shevarash as a whole are still several steps up from the Eldreth Veluuthra(sp?). But when you think about it, how many orcs have Drizzt slain that had the potential to turn to good? Sometimes I think more pity is lent to drow because their intelligence makes them more resemblant of humanity.
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Kentinal
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Posted - 14 Feb 2006 :  02:26:24  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It should be noted that Shevarash does , barely, recognise the existance of good Drow. It should follow that his followers will learn of this over time.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Ethriel
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USA
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Posted - 21 Feb 2006 :  23:25:59  Show Profile  Visit Ethriel's Homepage Send Ethriel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A heartbreaking story, but one thing honestly irriated me: At the end, are we to assume the gods have abandoned our hero and the drow on the Fugue Plain? He was more faithful to Elven Gods then than anyone else in his party...
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KnightErrantJR
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USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2006 :  17:12:51  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think seeing him alone on the Fugue Plain with the child was a way to show that he was accepting the consequenses of his actions, that despite knowing that Corellon and Shevarath both might not claim him, he still considered it more worth while to protect another innocent child than to honor his gods. They were newly arrived, so I would say that it is entirely possible that Corellon may show up and claim them. Its pretty open, but Sorrell, in order to be justified, had to be shown as standing on his own. So what happens next is a matter of perspective, but I think he really did need to show up in the afterlife on his own terms.

I did really like this story. Lisa is really doing a lot of good work, and she is a boon to have as a writer for the Realms (and I feel REALLY bad for not picking up her latest trilogy yet . . . I'll have to rectify that).
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe

USA
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Posted - 24 Feb 2006 :  00:12:41  Show Profile  Visit Ethriel's Homepage Send Ethriel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, but given what we know, he's gonna get ushered into the realm of the Faithless and tossed in the wall.
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe

USA
252 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2006 :  00:53:35  Show Profile  Visit Mkhaiwati's Homepage Send Mkhaiwati a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, after finishing the book, I can say that it was not my most favorite story, but it is certaintly the one that sticks most in my mind.

I think I may have to pick up her latest series, now. She seems to strike some chord in me, I am not sure I really enjoy it.

"Heartbreaking" is an apt description, as someone else used. I would also say Haunting. It stays with you.

Mkhaiwati

"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."

"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367
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Beezy
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USA
280 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2006 :  05:43:42  Show Profile  Visit Beezy's Homepage Send Beezy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

I think seeing him alone on the Fugue Plain with the child was a way to show that he was accepting the consequenses of his actions, that despite knowing that Corellon and Shevarath both might not claim him, he still considered it more worth while to protect another innocent child than to honor his gods. They were newly arrived, so I would say that it is entirely possible that Corellon may show up and claim them. Its pretty open, but Sorrell, in order to be justified, had to be shown as standing on his own. So what happens next is a matter of perspective, but I think he really did need to show up in the afterlife on his own terms.

I did really like this story. Lisa is really doing a lot of good work, and she is a boon to have as a writer for the Realms (and I feel REALLY bad for not picking up her latest trilogy yet . . . I'll have to rectify that).



I just finished book I and started book II and I am really liking the story line and characters.
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Lord Rad
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United Kingdom
2080 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2006 :  21:00:23  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I loved this story!

From the opening page, it drew me in straight away. The scene at the Old Skull cellar was very tense and eerie and just wanted me to read on and on. Beautiful scene! It really made me feel edgy and gave that stealthy side to the drow.

Another part of the story which I thought was VERY well done and showed something in a different light (pardon the pun) was the infravision description, when Sorrell was viewing the spectrum of colors and how different parts of the body showed, even the white clouds of breath. Descriptions such as this really brought the Underdark to life for me in this story.

Great stuff all the way through the underdark travel with the Silent Slayers. I felt scared for them

I liked how the story then went back to show Sorrell's inclusion and give the full explanation of the events from the beginning of the story at the Old Skull Inn.

The ending was very sad and I could imagine Sorrell's feelings suddenly coming to the forefront and recalling his son when he found the drow child. It's a hard decision and judgement to make, but the Silent Slayers had a mission, and they can be blinded from seeing reason and seeing a difference when they are so intend on destroying the thing they hate. Excellent scene! Wonderful story!


Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader

United Kingdom
2080 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2006 :  21:02:20  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati

"Heartbreaking" is an apt description, as someone else used. I would also say Haunting. It stays with you.



It certainly does! I'll always remember this story. It's tragic and holds a message. There are arguments for the actions taken at the end by the Silent Slayers.

One question I had is: where is Shevarash's Oak? Has it been detailed anywhere?

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 26 Feb 2006 :  21:04:17  Show Profile  Visit Lord Rad's Homepage Send Lord Rad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, one thing I found odd in the story was where Sorrell was given the boots of silent striding, which also levitated. Wasn't it a bit strange how the command words worked without anyone wearing them?! Surely anyone knowing the command words (which we're exactly hard), could raise the wearer into the air and keep playing with him and counteracting his command words

Lord Rad

"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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ShadowJack
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USA
350 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2006 :  15:20:04  Show Profile  Visit ShadowJack's Homepage Send ShadowJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a story I was wishing would end differently. I knew it was going to end bad for Sorrell, I just did not know how. Haunting is the right word. In hating your enemies to that degree, you become just like them... Sorrell, however, saw through this trap at the end, and proved he was more than hate. I believe Corellon will honor him with a place in Arvandor. It is interesting in the end that he made the same sacrifice for this drow child that his wife made for their child. This story left me feeling... unsettled? Great story.

ShadowJack
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe

149 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2006 :  10:45:23  Show Profile  Visit Swordsage's Homepage Send Swordsage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of all the short stories in the anthology, this was the only one that didn't have any "???" moments for me. Everything was true to the Realms, the characters were interesting, the story well-paced and the conclusion poignant. I enjoyed it - and went out and bought the first of Lisa's Hlondeth trilogy as a consequence. Nice work.

The Swordsage
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1073 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2006 :  19:41:43  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage Send khorne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aren`t the Silent Slayers going to catch hell for this? I mean: "We murdered our own comrade in cold blood because he was trying to stop us from murdering an innocent child".

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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Kajehase
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Sweden
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Posted - 22 Apr 2006 :  20:56:13  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Except that the according to the Silent Slayers, the child was a drow, and ergo was not innocent. To them he was betraying them by protecting the child.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Tamsar
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 06 May 2006 :  13:18:01  Show Profile Send Tamsar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One premise of the story is utterly horrific. Because his son died young, he goes to the fugue plane as one of teh faithless!!! How come no one else questions this, can you really imagine Corellon or any of the Seldarine (or any other "good" pantheon or deity for that matter) allowing this.

I understand it was used for the story purposes but even so, the premise doesnt stand up to much scrutiny IMO.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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36779 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2006 :  16:41:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar

One premise of the story is utterly horrific. Because his son died young, he goes to the fugue plane as one of teh faithless!!! How come no one else questions this, can you really imagine Corellon or any of the Seldarine (or any other "good" pantheon or deity for that matter) allowing this.

I understand it was used for the story purposes but even so, the premise doesnt stand up to much scrutiny IMO.



It wasn't because his son died, it was because the death of his son caused him to lose his faith. Lots of elves have had children that died. You think Corellon would punish them for that?

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