| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 09 Aug 2008 : 04:47:27
In another assine, has nothing to do with previous lore decision, we now know Sehanine was an aspect of Selune and in 4E, she's gone.
"In the tumult of the Plague Years, Selune finds that she has to concentrate her power to preserve the Gates of the Moon, revealing that Sehanine Moonbow was one of her manifestations. As part of reabsorbing some of the power that she once used to create Mystra, and withdrawing from manifestations such as Sehanine, Selune assumes the strength of a greater god. Several other gods with similar "multiple manifestations" had to do the same: Chauntea and Yondalla, Talos and Gruumsh, a couple of others.
OK, now on to table-talk: Why does Sehanine survive in the core pantheon, but not the FR pantheon? The answer is simple: the core pantheon doesn't have Selune. Basically, we weren't going to keep two chaotic good moon goddesses around, so who was manifesting who? Selune is a more central and important figure in the Realms than Sehanine. The FR design team wanted Selune, not Sehanine. On the other hand, Gruumsh and Talos are both one-eyed, chaotic evil gods of destruction. But Gruumsh has a heavier "investment," even in the context of FR, so he stays Gruumsh and reabsorbs Talos."
What silliness. I guess we are all just too stupid to handle 2 moon goddesses and 2 one-eyed gods
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 22:10:48
quote:
Originally posted by Vangelor
I always regarded Sehanine as a manifestation of Corellon - particularly, those elements of his divinity he initially suppressed in order to better complement his consort Auraushnee, which were then given independent expression as the Luminous Cloud. Then again, I also adhere to an early, AD&D interpretation of Corellon having initially been "male, female, both and neither", and my poor wild-elf is hopelessly confused that sun elves seem to think he is essentially masculine.
That would make Corellon his own consort... So if he was he was told to go do a specific anatomically impossible act, he'd actually be able to do it!  |
| Uzzy |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 19:47:58
quote:
Originally posted by Vangelor
I always regarded Sehanine as a manifestation of Corellon - particularly, those elements of his divinity he initially suppressed in order to better complement his consort Auraushnee, which were then given independent expression as the Luminous Cloud. Then again, I also adhere to an early, AD&D interpretation of Corellon having initially been "male, female, both and neither", and my poor wild-elf is hopelessly confused that sun elves seem to think he is essentially masculine.
Your poor, poor wild elf. 
|
| Vangelor |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 19:39:26
I always regarded Sehanine as a manifestation of Corellon - particularly, those elements of his divinity he initially suppressed in order to better complement his consort Auraushnee, which were then given independent expression as the Luminous Cloud. Then again, I also adhere to an early, AD&D interpretation of Corellon having initially been "male, female, both and neither", and my poor wild-elf is hopelessly confused that sun elves seem to think he is essentially masculine. |
| Makamu |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 15:15:44
Hello scribes,
I am a newly arrived acolyte at these esteemed halls of learning and I look forward to interesting discussions.
To get back on topic: The reduction of deities that has occured in 4E actually does not make sense for the setting as a whole, because it destroys the plurality of cultures that drew me into the Realms shortly before 4E came out.
And what I find the most distressing thing of all- the change betrays an incredible speciphobia on the part of the designers, because of all the gods that I have hard have been turned to aspects onlys one was a human deity as an aspect of a non-human deity.
Besides, as others have said far more eloquently than I, would the genuinely non-human deities not have noticed the aspect character of their peers at some point?
I find that lack of thought very sad, especially since I have started reading Ed's replies here and marvelled at the thought he put into it all. But maybe I am an odd speciman of my generation, because I love detailed and thoughtfully-created anime, video games and fantasy worlds... |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 19:28:08
it does not make any since either the sehanine/selune or the yondalla/ chauntea garbage.
and the cop out comment used to explain the reason, doesnt float either |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 16:43:03
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Wait, wait, now we find out that Yondalla was an aspect/disguise of Chauntea?
Umm, since Chauntea is a Realms-specific deity and Yondalla a multiplanar one, shouldn't that be the other way around?
It would've made more sense for them to say that Cyrollallee was Chauntea, wouldn't it?
And it would have made more sense for Selūne, a single sphere deity, to be an aspect of Sehanine, a multispheric deity, rather than the other way around. But I find I understand little of the Shattered Realms.  |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 16:29:14
Wait, wait, now we find out that Yondalla was an aspect/disguise of Chauntea?
Umm, since Chauntea is a Realms-specific deity and Yondalla a multiplanar one, shouldn't that be the other way around?
It would've made more sense for them to say that Cyrollallee was Chauntea, wouldn't it? |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 17:59:21
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
http://www.monkeydev.com/pics/pikagruumsh.png
Something I found to lighten everyone's day
Thanks for that. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 15:03:12
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Gruumsh: So I kill Talos, take his worshippers and get my eye back from Corellon.
Ao: Not exactly. We've rebranded and have envisaged a new deity who emphasises the power of a thunderstorm while engendering an appeal that leverages and excites a greater market segment
Gruumsh: In English?
Ao *hands Gruumsh a Pikachu outfit*
http://www.monkeydev.com/pics/pikagruumsh.png
Something I found to lighten everyone's day |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 12:07:32
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Perhaps I wasn't being clear in my last post. It wasn't you, Na-Gang, that I didn't understand. Neither did I have trouble understanding what you had written. I simply can't see how a goddess who was made up of three goddesses still exists when the constituent trio no longer exist. It just suggests that the $E Realms are more than a bit daft.
Oh I see!
My understanding was at fault, as it is with this Angharradh matter and many other deific matters of 4E. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 11:57:46
Perhaps I wasn't being clear in my last post. It wasn't you, Na-Gang, that I didn't understand. Neither did I have trouble understanding what you had written. I simply can't see how a goddess who was made up of three goddesses still exists when the constituent trio no longer exist. It just suggests that the $E Realms are more than a bit daft. |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 11:23:49
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Na-Gang - no matter how many times I read your last post I still don't understand it.  I entirely understand that it isn't your fault, you're reporting what is written in the new book.
Thanks for the info'.
Sometimes I say too little, oftentimes I say too much, on other occasions I might make no sense whatsoever no matter how much I say.
To clarify (hopefully): the three elven goddesses who made up Angharradh are now revealed never to have existed except as disguises worn by other deities... and yet, somehow, Angharradh survives. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 11:14:46
Na-Gang - no matter how many times I read your last post I still don't understand it. I entirely understand that it isn't your fault, you're reporting what is written in the new book.
Thanks for the info'. |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 11:09:31
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
But what about the three parts she consists of?
Heh. Well, no, they're all gone. Hanali Celanil is/was Sune, Aerdrie Faenya is/was Akadi, and Sehanine is/was Selune.
I didn't ever really like the triune goddess idea, but I'd be interested how anyone can justify her continued existence now. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 09:43:32
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
All but Big C. Turns out the Seldarine were only human gods disguising themselves as elven gods.
Are the human gods who pretended to be elven gods of good alignment? I should imagine that being party to such a massive lie would corrupt them. Although I guess it all depends on personal interpretation of the roles played by deities.
Personally, I find the range of pantheons available in Forgotten Realms to be one its most appealing points. It gives the setting a wonderful flavour and really adds a strong sense of verisimilitude.
The number of reasons not to buy $E continue to stack up. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 06:14:34
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
All but Big C. Turns out the Seldarine were only human gods disguising themselves as elven gods.
Actually...
Angharradh survives as a goddess of Wisdom.
But what about the three parts she consists of? |
| bitter thorn |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 02:11:34
I must second this notion.
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I have yet to read anything redeeming within the Shattered Realms.
Sadly, neither have I...and the "revealing" of racial deities as aspects of human deities is one that I have railed against since before the new year. This truly is the last straw that I hoped I would never see in the 4e Realms (but dreaded as a certainty. For me, the racial diversity of the Realms (amongst deities as well as mortals) was one of the most "real" aspects of it, and now it is moot. Despair and nausea batter me.
 |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 22:00:32
Actually, they are kind of a mix of the two. For instance, many of the elven gods are now Exarchs, but Fzoul is an Exarch as well. But he's still listed as level 28*, whereas Szass Tam is level 30 and not divine... Not sure who'd win that fight, though...
*I believe that's what I read in the bookstore, can someone confirm/deny? |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 21:34:30
So they're (in 3E parlance) Epic mortals with a divine 'template'? I'd been imagining them as akin to the traditional meaning of demigods but I guess they're less than that. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 21:28:39
There's angels & such so if the PCs get into big trouble or are getting too big for their britches, then El and the Cho- I mean, Exarchs can show up to help... |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 20:38:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Thanks, Na-Gang. I keep forgetting about the Exarchs.
I still don't really 'get' the point of them, but they're there. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 20:32:36
Thanks, Na-Gang. I keep forgetting about the Exarchs. |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 20:24:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
All but Big C. Turns out the Seldarine were only human gods disguising themselves as elven gods.
Actually...
Angharradh survives as a goddess of Wisdom.
Deep Sashelas, Erevan Ilesere, Fenmarel Mestarine, Labelas Enoreth, Shevarash, and Solonor Thelandira survive as Exarchs. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 20:17:12
Oh, I totally agree with you there SF, just quoting the 'official' word from Wasbro*.
*Yes, that was a slight to the company. Showing that they are only 1/6th of the company before they buyout... |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 19:30:04
no they are not, just some of us are NOT using the $e realms gods and will use the the 3.0 ones.
selune and sehanine are NOT the same and saying stuff that it is easy to ASSume that they are is calling your fan base the first 3 letters of that word.
Mod edit: Content removed. Let's not go putting words into the mouths of designers unless you have a specific quote, please. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 19:28:33
All but Big C. Turns out the Seldarine were only human gods disguising themselves as elven gods. |
| khorne |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 19:00:30
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Good stuff.
I did something similar in Steven Schend's thread, imagining the conversation between Khelben and Kelemvor when Khelben dies and finds out their are no Seldarine.
Wait, the Seldarine are all gone? |
| phal |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 14:30:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Gruumsh: WHAT THE FU...
Now THERE'S the Gruumsh we all know and love!!!
I still have tears on my cheeks from laughing so hard while reading those excepts by the way. Thank you very much for writing them. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 23:12:24
Wow, Kiaransalyn! I'm impressed with the portrayal of The Quiet One! Well-done!  |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 22:24:35
Team Rockets rockin yer in trouble make it double.......
hahahahaha |
