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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 08:46:11
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Woo hooo, this looks more promising. WotC have opened up a new series on the FR site - Adventure Locales.
The first installment is called The Haunted Glen
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 09:01:24
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Ah, you beat me to the punch. I just saw the new feature, and was coming to start a thread on it...  |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 10:57:01
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I was going to discuss this in the 'Missing WotC updates' thread 
Anyhoo...
Whilst I am very happy with this as a first article - it confirms the existence of the Unseelie Court in FR (I know that doesn't mean it confirms the existence of the Fey deities, but its a step in the right direction) and uses an unseelie nymph.
However, am I alone in wondering at the complete lack of FR-specific-ness of it? If this is a replacement for Portals, its a very poor one. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 15:00:29
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With all due respect to Robert Wiese, this is simply not an FR article. It is a generic adventure side trek which he has stated has its default home in Cormanthor. He could just as easily have said its default home was the Vesve Forest, Mirkwood, Silvanesti, the sole remaining green patch in Athas, etc. etc. 
I get quite sick and tired of extremely generic articles that have the FR logo slapped onto them. I thought with the advent of 3E that this sort of thing was now the preserve of Greyhawk ....
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 15:23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I get quite sick and tired of extremely generic articles that have the FR logo slapped onto them. I thought with the advent of 3E that this sort of thing was now the preserve of Greyhawk ....
-- George Krashos
Agreed. It appears almost as if they simply added this part
quote:
You can place the haunted glen in any forest, but the forest of Cormanthor in the Forgotten Realms is its default home
so they could count it as an FR article. Thus, the lack of FR articles continues as far as I'm concerned. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 16:50:25
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I would have preferred the "adventure locales" be listed with the generic Dungeons & Dragons material. They could have made the article with the Realms references, and if someone wanted to use it in their own world, then they can do as we often do, change the names.
**sigh** |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2004 : 10:14:22
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
With all due respect to Robert Wiese, this is simply not an FR article. It is a generic adventure side trek which he has stated has its default home in Cormanthor. He could just as easily have said its default home was the Vesve Forest, Mirkwood, Silvanesti, the sole remaining green patch in Athas, etc. etc.
I get quite sick and tired of extremely generic articles that have the FR logo slapped onto them. I thought with the advent of 3E that this sort of thing was now the preserve of Greyhawk ....
-- George Krashos
It shouldn't be too much of a stretch for anyone to believe that I agree with you on this George. In fact, this was pretty much the opinion on the DL boards as well. We had noticed that there were some distinctive references in the 'locale' write-up that are more appropriate for the ancient elven lands of Krynn...
I wonder what more we can expect from this series...?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2004 : 15:38:55
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I finally sat down and read that article. The idea was okay, but calling it an FR article because of that one blurb was just pushing it.
If it was intended to be set in the Realms, as they claimed, then why did they not even specify which "local military" the guy belonged to?
All in all, the first article of the new feature was a disappointment, but only because it didn't feel like it was intended to be a Realms article.
Hopefully, subsequent installments will be more Realms-specific. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2004 : 16:06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hopefully, subsequent installments will be more Realms-specific.
I hope so as well. However, don't bet the house on Tymora smiling upon us.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2004 : 16:31:53
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hopefully, subsequent installments will be more Realms-specific.
I hope so as well. However, don't bet the house on Tymora smiling upon us.
Yeah, I'm not betting on it. I wish I could say otherwise... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2004 : 05:08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If it was intended to be set in the Realms, as they claimed, then why did they not even specify which "local military" the guy belonged to?
Actually, I've been doing some limited research into that particular reference. It's funny, but the details match some similar specific details to any area and army detailed in the DL's 'War of Souls'...
It could be just a coincidence though...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 19:58:44
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I get the feeling Robert Wiese got a good telling off for his last two Adventure Locales - his newest addition actually contributes SOMETHING, however small, to FR, and actually seems to be set there rather than in an alternate, beige dimension.
Still, I'm unhappy with its continual adaptibility factor - it remains a poor FR article. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 04 Aug 2004 19:59:36 |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 22:10:34
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| Thanks you for reminding me of this Sarelle. I keep skipping over the articles until later, but later never comes. Maybe this time I'll read it. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 22:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
I get the feeling Robert Wiese got a good telling off for his last two Adventure Locales - his newest addition actually contributes SOMETHING, however small, to FR, and actually seems to be set there rather than in an alternate, beige dimension.
Still, I'm unhappy with its continual adaptibility factor - it remains a poor FR article.
I dunno, I kinda liked this one. For once, it actually felt like something that was intended for the Realms. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 23:42:23
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| The latest one actually ties in with an old FR Dungeon module, "The most secret location was in a cave underwater on the southernmost side of the Pirate Isles" The cave is detailed in the module and if memory serves theres some sort of powerful magic item/Artifact tied to the Cormyian Royal family there to |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2004 : 00:18:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The latest one actually ties in with an old FR Dungeon module, "The most secret location was in a cave underwater on the southernmost side of the Pirate Isles" The cave is detailed in the module and if memory serves theres some sort of powerful magic item/Artifact tied to the Cormyian Royal family there to
Remember you which Dungeon it was? |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2004 : 00:31:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The latest one actually ties in with an old FR Dungeon module, "The most secret location was in a cave underwater on the southernmost side of the Pirate Isles" The cave is detailed in the module and if memory serves theres some sort of powerful magic item/Artifact tied to the Cormyian Royal family there to
Really? That's interesting. It is an okay article, but when you compare it to Magic Books, Realms by Night, and the rest it does seem poor, but maybe those are too harsh comparisons... |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2004 : 00:33:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The latest one actually ties in with an old FR Dungeon module, "The most secret location was in a cave underwater on the southernmost side of the Pirate Isles" The cave is detailed in the module and if memory serves theres some sort of powerful magic item/Artifact tied to the Cormyian Royal family there to
Remember you which Dungeon it was?
Yep its in Issue 48 the Modules called The Oracle of Sumbar
Hmm it wasnt a Magic item it was the Crown of Palaghard the 1st (a Formr king of Cormyr) |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2004 : 03:10:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The latest one actually ties in with an old FR Dungeon module, "The most secret location was in a cave underwater on the southernmost side of the Pirate Isles" The cave is detailed in the module and if memory serves theres some sort of powerful magic item/Artifact tied to the Cormyian Royal family there to
Remember you which Dungeon it was?
Yep its in Issue 48 the Modules called The Oracle of Sumbar
Hmm it wasnt a Magic item it was the Crown of Palaghard the 1st (a Formr king of Cormyr)
Thanks, I'll have to see if I've got that one when I get home. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2004 : 15:22:27
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| There is a new locale available. Like the one before it, this one is very light on Realms information. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 05:08:56
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| Another locale. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 08:19:19
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Another locale.
And not only is it utterly flavorless, it leaves one wondering how a lawful good brownie is supposed to "actually get along pretty well" with a chaotic evil boggart... 
I wish they'd actually put some effort into making these articles feel like they were written for the Realms, instead of being shoved in with a reference or two to something Realms-specific. 
Better yet, why don't they grab someone with a proven Realms track record -- like a certain esteemed sage Schend -- and let him do these articles? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Oct 2004 08:23:20 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 17:05:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I wish they'd actually put some effort into making these articles feel like they were written for the Realms, instead of being shoved in with a reference or two to something Realms-specific.
I understand. I almost didn't post this new locale since by the lack of response to the previous one, I don't think many scribes here are that interested in the articles.
quote:
Better yet, why don't they grab someone with a proven Realms track record -- like a certain esteemed sage Schend -- and let him do these articles?
I don't know. Perhaps there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about when it comes to online articles. The only thing we can do is provide feedback when asked for on surveys. |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 17:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And not only is it utterly flavorless, it leaves one wondering how a lawful good brownie is supposed to "actually get along pretty well" with a chaotic evil boggart...
i actually do not find it so flavourless... besides: it fitīs well with plans of mine concerning a "short trip to waterdeep" my pcīs will make in the near future. i was in need of a "quiet manson" type of house that a mysterious ally of them offers for accomodation - and struck gold with that article.
[edit #2]
ok, read first, post later... i failed to realize that by "flavour", you mean "realms flavour". i agree, thereīs nothing realmsian there, just a generic haunted house. were it labeled as "generic haunted house", i would like it (provided they cut out the boggart!). but calling it a realms article only because the word "faerun" and three cities are included in the intro...
[/edit #2]
however, the boggart-brownie relationship is bunk, plain and simple!
The boggart came to the house nearly twenty years ago with some guests, and it stayed when it discovered the brownie. It has a mean temper and breaks things or creates messes much of the time. This keeps the brownie busy, and the two actually get along pretty well. They are both wary of strangers, and they hid when the priests came checking the house for undead.
why should someone who loves order agree to live together with someone who constantly breaks the just repaired things?  
i think the authors thought they "needed" the boggart to give a reason for the house not being nice and orderly, given that the brownie constantly repairs things. regular decay alone would not be enough to keep him busy, so eventually he should have polished the house to mirrorfinish. ==> no spooky mood anymore, thus the boggart...
all we need is to find an alternative for the boggart, which is not too difficult. why not have waterdhavian children or bored noble youngsters constantly break in the house? during their trespasses, things are bound to break... that would change nothing the text said anyway, just emphasize it a bit more.
as said above, i decided to use the house soon. there are still some question concerning it, perhaps you have some ideas. hereīs some of the background from my campaign:
the estate belongs inzeldrin, a old green dragon who lives in misltedale. he actually "rules" the dale behind the scenes, having contact with almost all important figures. he sees the dale as his domain, and constantly defends it (again, most of the time behind the scenes) against dretchroyaster (green dracolich) to the norteast, aurgloroasa (undead shadowdragon) in the south thunderpeaks and several other draconic competitors.
at some time in the past, probably a century ago, inzeldrin came into possession of a waterdhavian estate and used it as base for his contacts in the city: he constantly "employed" some people to bring him the latest news or procure things he could not get elsewhere. with a bit of magic it was easy for him to stay in contact with them, and rumors are (i.e.: i havenīt decided yet ) that a portal links the house with a certain place in mistledale.
over the years, however, inzeldrin found other fields of interest. most things could be procured in the nearer cormyr or sembia, and "ruling" a dale proved to absorb more of his time every decade, so he decided to abandon the house. all valuables were stripped and relocated to decorate other estates he owns elsewhere in the realms. the manse itself fell slowly in ruin, only rarely used by his agents when a hiding hole was in needed.
questions:
- is a lonely house, complete with a (rather small) savage garden reasonable in waterdeep?
- where would you place it? which city ward is appropriate?^
- how often would trespasses occur?
- how notorious is it? does the neighbourhood talk about it on a daily/weekly basis?
- how would the neighbourhood react when (during winter, when thereīs nobody apart from locals in the city) suddenly strangers appear and live in the mansion? i plan to let them call the city watch, who will question them about their business. i also plan to give the pcīs an official document, something like a admission from the official owner (can be found in the cities archive) to live there, just to make the watch shake their heads- and have the pcīs wonder about their mysterious ally...
[edit #1]
how about adding realmsian flavour ourselves?
what else could be done with the silent manse, where would you place it, what background would you give it? *grins & puts on challenging face* 
[/edit #1]
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Edited by - tauster on 06 Oct 2004 18:22:25 |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 18:03:12
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I understand. I almost didn't post this new locale since by the lack of response to the previous one, I don't think many scribes here are that interested in the articles.
...at least one scribe is interested in those articles.
iīll integrate several of them in my campaigns (namely "the haunted glen", "despair on tap", as well as the current "silent manse").
while some are more like remakes of classics, others are based on nice ideas. last night i read in a book about dming that it is "the art of scavenging and integrating"; the adventure locales are exactly what i want to see more: small modules, building blocks i can use in my campaigns.
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Edited by - tauster on 06 Oct 2004 18:06:09 |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 18:38:00
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quote:
Originally posted by tauster
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And not only is it utterly flavorless, it leaves one wondering how a lawful good brownie is supposed to "actually get along pretty well" with a chaotic evil boggart...
i actually do not find it so flavourless...
Right, this is jsut supposed to be a bare bones encounter set somewhere that the individual DM needs it, not a history text.
As for the boggart and brownie getting along...
I could see something of a relationship evolving, if neither creature was able to kill the other, and they both wanted to live there. I would imagine after a while, the brownie is used to cleaning up after the boggart, and even likes having things to fix.
And "surprisingly well" might just mean that they don't slay one another. Not that they have trysts in the atrium. Picture it more as roommates that do not particularly care for one another. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 19:03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
As for the boggart and brownie getting along...
I could see something of a relationship evolving, if neither creature was able to kill the other, and they both wanted to live there. I would imagine after a while, the brownie is used to cleaning up after the boggart, and even likes having things to fix.
And "surprisingly well" might just mean that they don't slay one another. Not that they have trysts in the atrium. Picture it more as roommates that do not particularly care for one another.
that were my thoughts too when i read it initially, and supposedly what the authors had in mind. but after some thoughts i feel that no such "relationship" would last longer than one of the two needs to get rid of the other:
the boggart perhaps likes to break the things the "stupid brownie" just re-repaired, but i think he would like even more living in a household without such an orderly roommate, a house in waterdeep where through him, chaos could rule supreme. just annoying the brownie surely gets boring after a few days or weeks. imagine you were such a slob like the boggart: how would you like sharing a house with someone who constantly cleans up after you?
the brownie however has no choice, as he is afraid of leaving the house/garden.
This brownie moved into the house when few houses stood around it, and it stayed for so long that the city grew up around the house. that obvioulsy doesnīt work in cities like waterdeep that have a long history and have not grown over the last decades. in my campaign, the brownie was "relocated" from rural mistledale to roaring waterdeep by inzeldrin - as creative punishment for trying to "repair" things in the dragons hoard. surely other explanations for itīs presence can be made up in other campaigns.
however, a brownie would imo never, ever "get along surprisingly well" with a boggart, let alone "spend time with him"! that would be like... well... itīs like ignoring the contrarian tendencies that make up the very core of both creatures. like saying that a fire-elemental could like living next to an ice-elemental. it needs some extraordinary convincing to make me buy this story, not only a short statement like "they like each other"! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 19:37:49
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quote:
Originally posted by tauster
questions:
- is a lonely house, complete with a (rather small) savage garden reasonable in waterdeep?
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in Waterdeep, or any other major city of the Heartlands.
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
- where would you place it? which city ward is appropriate?^
I'd say either the Trades Ward or North Ward.
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
- how often would trespasses occur?
It would depend on a couple things: the rumors about the house, and which ward it's in, because some wards are more patrolled than others.
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
- how notorious is it? does the neighbourhood talk about it on a daily/weekly basis?
The more notorious it is, the more likely it is that you'll have adventurers traipsing thru, trying to cleanse the place, or that thieves will be searching the place for loot that's just "got to be hidden somewhere"...
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
- how would the neighbourhood react when (during winter, when thereīs nobody apart from locals in the city) suddenly strangers appear and live in the mansion? i plan to let them call the city watch, who will question them about their business. i also plan to give the pcīs an official document, something like a admission from the official owner (can be found in the cities archive) to live there, just to make the watch shake their heads- and have the pcīs wonder about their mysterious ally...
I think it would depend on whether they were squatters, or had somehow gotten title to the place.
If they've gotten title to the building (perhaps in return for back taxes that were never paid on the building or for doing the city some useful deed), then the locals would likely be quietly hopeful that the adventurers would clean the place up and end whatever mysterious things are going on in there. On the other hand, though, not everyone trusts adventurers, so the adventurers might not be welcomed with open arms. "Sure, they cleaned up the place, but it's only a matter of time until the place erupts in a spellbattle or somesuch; you know all adventurers are touched by the gods and that they make some powerful enemies."
After a few years, though, they'd prolly be accepted, provided they didn't blow anything up or battle the tarrasque in the neighbor's flower garden.
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
[edit #1]
how about adding realmsian flavour ourselves?
what else could be done with the silent manse, where would you place it, what background would you give it? *grins & puts on challenging face*
[/edit #1]
Actually, I think the background you gave it is a pretty intriguing one.
Here's a possible idea, though: the dragon contacted his agents thru some magical device that looks rather non-descipt. Perhaps it's an old book, with messages from the dragon appearing on certain pages. Or it could be a mirror or portrait that acts as a two-way communications device... Either way, this item was somehow overlooked when the house was cleared out (or left behind, for the one or two odd agents who remained). Someone recently found the item and carried it elsewhere, maybe or maybe not nearby (if it's a book, it could be a daring child who found it, if it's something else, it could now be adorning the wall of a local home or business).
Now the dragon suddenly needs something done in Waterdeep. He tries to use the device, and the current owner is rather surprised by whatever form the communication takes.
The child with the book would be frightened at the page(s) that contain these written messages, which get increasingly more strident in effort to get a reply (or the kid did reply, and now is really worried about what this book wants him/her to do!)
Or the home owner/shopkeep is worried about the fact that this person's face keeps showing up in the mirror and calling for someone, or that the portrait is suddenly animated and trying to get someone to reply... Either way, the dragon is wily enough to hide behind a human appearance, so as not to reveal it's nature. This leads the frazzled home owner/shopkeep to assume that the painting or mirror is haunted...
Or maybe thieves carried away the device. Now the dragon's agents are seeking it, because that's the only way they can contact their master...
Alternatively, the device sould be a small sculpture that become animated when the dragon is trying to communicate with his agents. Either way, the same fun can be had.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 19:57:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Right, this is jsut supposed to be a bare bones encounter set somewhere that the individual DM needs it, not a history text.
I understand the aim of these columns. And I'm not looking for a history text. But if they're going to label something and say it's for the Realms, then I want something that was written for the Realms. I do not want a generic local that has a couple Realms references thrown in, just so they can call it Realms-related.
If this series of articles wasn't supposedly set in the Realms, then I'd have no complaints about that. But they are supposed to be set in the Realms, so I don't think it's asking too much to want something that feels like it was meant for the Realms.
Even with that aside, was it really too much effort to put it in a city, or give the family a name? Sure, that would narrow it down, but what DM couldn't simply change the name or relocate the house as needed? |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2004 : 21:02:20
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Wooly: look at the name of this article's author, then go read again previous articles from his. You'll notice that he's been doing this for at least a year now, if not more, and that all of his articles are meant for the generic D&D crowd (and they are also featured on the main D&D website... coincidence? )
In short, this isn't anything new or any surprise to this humble forum participant... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2004 : 00:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Wooly: look at the name of this article's author, then go read again previous articles from his. You'll notice that he's been doing this for at least a year now, if not more, and that all of his articles are meant for the generic D&D crowd (and they are also featured on the main D&D website... coincidence? )
In short, this isn't anything new or any surprise to this humble forum participant...
I guess it's not too surprising, then... I just wish they wouldn't re-label generic stuff as being in the Realms. It's an insult to Realms fans, I think. |
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New FR articles - "Adventure Locales"
