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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 23:07:32
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I've run the Forgotten Realms for about eight years using the GURPS 4e system.
My experience is that the D&D rule-set is not a good fit for the majority of Realms fiction and in order to make it work with Ed Greenwood's original conception of the Realms, a GM must be essentially willing to formally or informally* create a new gaming system on top of it. While later incarnations of D&D did address many of the lacunae in the first edition AD&D rules, they also removed the focus of game-play further and further away from the complex intrigues, deep sense of place and 'mortal-scale'** adventuring of the original Realms.
It is my experience that GURPS, being an adaptable and setting agnostic system of considerable elegance, with the guiding principle of benchmarking against reality but providing customisable mechanisms for any kind of supernatural feats, is well able to handle any kind of Realms feeling for which one might be striving. I am very happy with it.
It is very possible that other setting-agnostic systems out there might also fit your purposes. I don't know 'Legend', specifically, but Runequest ought to be a decent fit, though depending on your needs, some Realms-specific characters, careers or monsters might not translate well or easily.
My advice is to avoid direct system-to-system numeric conversions. Systems provide an imperfect model of a hypothetical ideal which is the reality within the game setting. They are languages for describing something you would no more translate one into the another directly than you'd translate Shakespeare from Swahili into Japanese by running it through a program substituting each word of Swahili for the most common Japanese equivalent.
Instead, mentally translate the statistics in D&D terms into a description that makes sense in setting terms and real-world, i.e. define the character, creature or other element in terms that an inhabitant of the setting would recognise and that tells you its capabilities relative to common things within the setting or in real life. Then use the system you want to use to build such a character or creature.
To take an example of a character, when deciding something simple like an ability score, decide how much stronger (faster, agile, smarter, etc.) than an average man he is, based on the D&D stats, and then assign a number that represents this in the game system you want to use.
*By ad hoc adjudication of each specific situation.
**Such as the original short stories and novels about Conan, the Newhon adventures of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and even the SF adventures of Nicholas van Rijn. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 03:37:21
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| I am looking at adapting Castle and Crusaders, it is similar enough that a lot of the iconic second edition spells can be converted over easily. The rule set appears to be pretty light allowing for a great focus on the action of the story and less book diving to settle rules disputes. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 04:00:09
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Icelander's analogy is perfect, an RPG system is basically a language which describes a pseudo-reality, and accurately translating elements or settings between them can be something of a fine art.
It could be said that every gaming table is a unique RPG in itself, a unique language, filled with homebrewed rules, mechanisms, checks and balances. Playing the Realms through an entirely different RPG engine is easily possible, every DM and every author already does something of the sort. True, most of these RPGs are basically just minor variations of by-the-book D&D, but anything is possible - it really just depends on how much time and effort you want to dedicate to the translation task. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Feb 2012 04:01:32 |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
187 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 05:27:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
I am looking at adapting Castle and Crusaders, it is similar enough that a lot of the iconic second edition spells can be converted over easily. The rule set appears to be pretty light allowing for a great focus on the action of the story and less book diving to settle rules disputes.
Castles & Crusades is almost identical to AD&D as far as spells and whatnot go. A LOT of people use C&C with AD&D stuff and the older settings, particularly FR. Myself included :p |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 08:18:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
I am looking at adapting Castle and Crusaders,
C&C works brilliantly with the Realms, plenty of scope to build, add tweak as necessary and captures the feel of the OGBS edition of the Realms extremely well. I am pleased we are using C&C for the ongoing campaign
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 09:22:30
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Hmm. I'll definitely take Icelander's considerations to heart. If you can run it under GURPs, you can run it under BRP. They have very similar capabilities, though they dont have easily comparable mechanics.
As for Pathfinder and Castles and Crusaders, both of those are very similar to standard D&D. Using pathfinder for FR is very simple, but it comes with all the baggage of using 3.5 or Pathfinder, which is something I'm a bit tired of. Castles and Crusades and AD&D aren't versatile enough for my purposes. I'd like to see some simpler Monster/NPC generation, more mortal-powered plot, and maybe a magic system closer to the Realms fiction than Jack Vance, without ditching all of the versatility.
GURPs could theoretically do it, but I'm more a fan of runequest, and the spinoff of runequest "Legend" is a good version of that system in my opinion, and not too specifically attached to any one setting. |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
Edited by - Sylrae on 21 Feb 2012 10:28:07 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 12:01:48
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I've done it (using a Swedish BRP variant that is more straight forward fantasy, but with ducks)and it works just as well as the D&D/D20 rules, if not better. But then I am not a canon person and this was based on TSR Realms, so I am not sure how well it would work with the 3e and later Realms.
I cant think of any specific advice as you seem to already know BRP enough to know any differences, nor can I think of any warnings.
Come to think of it; do you own the BRP monograph that gives a BRP form to a lot of the Ad&d classes and magic? I think its called Classic Fantasy or something like that; most of the information is somewhat redundant if you have played around with the rules a bit before, but there might be a few useful details.
Best of luck. |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 17:52:59
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Not really. Icelandic is a more direct descendant of old Norse and is not readily understandable by speakers of the other Scandinavian languages. The grammar, syntax and words themselves are very different; believe me I still cringe when thinking about working with it at the university.
The other ones are not that different; Danish is most like Norwegian when read, but is not that easily understood when spoken; Swedish is a bit more different, but easier to understand when spoken. And then there are the spoken dialects, especially in Sweden and Norway, which are often further apart than the national languages. Which means that you can study a Scandinavian language, think you will manage and find out you are in a region where you don't understand a word when they address you.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 18:17:13
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My mother and aunt speak Estonian, and they can understand about half of what Finnish people say (similar to how Spanish and Italian relate). My Grandmother spoke almost no English, so when I was very young I lived in a bi-lingual home. 
On topic:
I loved Runequest, and always felt FR would be a good fit for that system - at least priestly magic. I will have to look into Legend - does it have a separate magic system (for non-priests)?
I really hope that 5e rules will be designed from the ground-up to support FR; 'vanilla' D&D was never a perfect fit. From what I gather, Ed handled magic in much the same way old-school (1e) psionics were handled - people can gain 'wild talents'. Thats pretty cool, IMHO. It was part of the truly excellent balance Ed created (because even an Archmage had to be careful - you never knew when you'd run into some 'village idiot' with Spellfire, or some-such).
EDIT: On the other hand, the new 'rules free' approach to the Realms will help quite a bit with folks wanting to use other rules systems for FR. Not as ideal as a Realms-specific ruleset, but still great for those of us who like options.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2012 18:36:17 |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 21:27:34
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Very interesting Jorkens. I've been considering the possibility of moving to a scandinavian country for a few years. I think I'd like any of the countries but sweden (which has apparently been bowing to american pressures for the past 5 years. I've also wanted to learn some scandinavian languages. From what you just said, I think I'd like to learn icelandic, and either norwegian or danish.
@Markustay: Legend so far has 5 different magic systems.
Common Magic, Clerical Magic, Sorcery, Spirit Magic, and Blood magic.
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Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 04:43:27
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Ducks, Jorkens? I don't understand your expression or meaning.   |
[/Ayrik] |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 09:21:55
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| Like this guy. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 10:14:53
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Nope, nothing like him. Gloranthan ducks are cool; in other words think Carl Barks. And they should be found in the Western Heartlands, somewhere along the Chonthar in my opinion, no campaign setting is complete without them. And some slave driving though tapirs too of course.
As for Scandinavia. This is not the start of a political discussion, but just so it has been mentioned; Norway and Denmark are NATO members, Sweden is outside alliances, so if this is important too you you should do some checking. And in short; Norway has the best jobb-market, but is also the most expensive to live in. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 10:36:49
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| Try as I might, I cannot picture a very cool duck (other than Howard). I'm not sure I could be persuaded to play one. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 10:52:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Try as I might, I cannot picture a very cool duck (other than Howard). I'm not sure I could be persuaded to play one.
It's not all it's quacked up to be...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 15:34:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Try as I might, I cannot picture a very cool duck (other than Howard). I'm not sure I could be persuaded to play one.
Oh, come on. Duck Dodgers is pretty cool looking. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 15:47:46
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| Its really not that much more silly than cow-people, dog-lizards and other various species with bird heads found in D&D. I really should start goofing around with the realms again and give a version of the ducks as found in the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 17:21:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Try as I might, I cannot picture a very cool duck (other than Howard). I'm not sure I could be persuaded to play one.
Oh, come on. Duck Dodgers is pretty cool looking.
Indeed. I was also a fan of Launchpad McQuack, myself.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 21:36:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
The Ducks play hockey right?
http://dgirl1989.freeservers.com/images/mdtitle.jpg
Yes, but not the mighty ones; they're busy with running the duck nation and its businesses. 
Edit: I just realized... I suppose a duck nation whose economy is based on potato farming and maritime industry would be a duck-tater-ship... just saying...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 26 Feb 2012 21:44:30 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 21:51:10
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| Back on topic: I've heard of FR being run with GURPS, Rolemaster, the OpenD6 system, and even White Wolf's d10 system... not to mention any version of (A)D&D/d20/OGL you care to mention... and I'm hoping that this is something WotC realizes going forward with the Realms... we want lore, not stat blocks. Give us a piece of software to generate a stat block (for any edition) from an Ed-style stat shorthand line (1e/2e), and you'll make a lot of gamers both old and new very happy. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:28:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
and I'm hoping that this is something WotC realizes going forward with the Realms... we want lore, not stat blocks. Give us a piece of software to generate a stat block (for any edition) from an Ed-style stat shorthand line (1e/2e), and you'll make a lot of gamers both old and new very happy.
Sounds an excellent idea to me Jakk - am looking forward to the result
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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Topic |
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Forgotten Realms under nonD&D Rules?
