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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9761 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2020 :  21:59:46  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Dalor,

I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2020 :  23:51:53  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

Do you happen to know if Explorer Markustay was the one that created the map for the Five Shires? It is amazing!

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
510 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  16:29:20  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hey Dalor,

I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.



I was digging around in my timeline and I found the stuff below. I put this together a long time ago so I have put in italics the stuff I believe to not be canon.

-7800:
The Great Arrival: The noble djinni lord Calim arrives in Faerűn followed by the Djen, an entourage of genies and their human and halfling slaves. The djinni lord quickly seizes all the lands south and west of the Marching Mountains and founds the Calim Empire on the present-day site of Calimport.

-7790:
The Dragon Wars: A Flight of Dragons destroys the city of Calimport. This event initiates a century of war pitting Calim and the genies against the dragons. By its end, every dragon in the Marching Mountains dies at the hands and magic of the genies. The genies’ magic rebuilds Calimport within a year of its initial destruction.

It is during this time that the elves and dwarves of Forest of Mir and the Alimir Mountains first encounter escaped human and halfling slaves of the Calim Empire. They quickly decide to help them relocate to the southeast of the Lake of Steam. The Calim Empire loses slaves at a rate of 1 of every 14 human slaves and 2 of every 11 halfling slaves per year.

-6000:
Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest, which stretches from the River Ammath in the west to the River Gundar in the east, and from the Toadsquat Mountains all the way to the shore of the Luirenstrand. They report three distinct tribes of hin living in that region.

Human nomads start to roam the Shaar in numbers. Trade with the gold dwarves of the Great Rift begins.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9761 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  19:55:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hey Dalor,

I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.



I was digging around in my timeline and I found the stuff below. I put this together a long time ago so I have put in italics the stuff I believe to not be canon.

-7800:
The Great Arrival: The noble djinni lord Calim arrives in Faerűn followed by the Djen, an entourage of genies and their human and halfling slaves. The djinni lord quickly seizes all the lands south and west of the Marching Mountains and founds the Calim Empire on the present-day site of Calimport.

-7790:
The Dragon Wars: A Flight of Dragons destroys the city of Calimport. This event initiates a century of war pitting Calim and the genies against the dragons. By its end, every dragon in the Marching Mountains dies at the hands and magic of the genies. The genies’ magic rebuilds Calimport within a year of its initial destruction.

It is during this time that the elves and dwarves of Forest of Mir and the Alimir Mountains first encounter escaped human and halfling slaves of the Calim Empire. They quickly decide to help them relocate to the southeast of the Lake of Steam. The Calim Empire loses slaves at a rate of 1 of every 14 human slaves and 2 of every 11 halfling slaves per year.

-6000:
Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest, which stretches from the River Ammath in the west to the River Gundar in the east, and from the Toadsquat Mountains all the way to the shore of the Luirenstrand. They report three distinct tribes of hin living in that region.

Human nomads start to roam the Shaar in numbers. Trade with the gold dwarves of the Great Rift begins.




Gotcha, the italicized section is his own add it looks like? Guessing that's the case because that's not what's in the GHotR. However, what that's showing is that some of the Calishite halflings homebrew went down to Luiren. It provides no linkage between the calishite halflings and this variation on the five shires (side note, I had thought that at one point they were trying to put this located less in Turmish and more on the lake of steam area so as it could be an easier insert without affecting the neighbors as much since the border kingdoms have always been a lot more fluid).

EDIT: Yeah, I know now why I could have sworn that they wanted it in the lake of steam areas. It was where he originally thought he could put it and he must have somewhere or other put out a concept sketch. At that time he had a ton of concept sketches he was floating out.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21420

I will say from a lore standpoint, I still think that's a better place to put it (i.e. in the erlkazar/ lake of steam/border kingdoms area), because it won't "step on" the surrounding regions like Cormyr as much. It puts it closer to the Shaar and Calimshan, which can have some idea that some of the halflings came from Calimshan to form some kind of realm after the fall of genie rule. Also, the concept of the "black flame" special material is something that could be equated to the efreeti as well. Maybe

Also to note, Markustay actually has a newer version than the map previously referenced. Its still near Turmish for that one, but its probably a better placement. Still think that the Lake of Steam area makes more sense for having a sudden realm appear without conflicting with lore on Cormyr, Sembia, etc... who would be involved with a nearby halfling people (less so with the border kingdoms, shaar, etc....).

https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/NEW-5-Shires-coversion-for-FR-2-0-656703763


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Nov 2020 21:14:00
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4050 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  20:47:32  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I left it open on purpose. Trying to tie it to a concrete connection in Faerun just wasn't how I saw the founding of the Five Shires.

So I simply wrote it as:

Circa -950 DR – “The Early Days.” The coming of halflings to Faerdinel and the building of Faerdinel Keep. The Hin make contact with the Gentle Folk, a group of pacifist elven folk who start to mentor the Halflings. Hin records do not indicate where these Hin come from; but many suspect after excavations that the Hin of The Five Shires may have been slaves belonging to Netherese Spelljamming Arcanists which fought for their freedom and forced the ship they were on to crash where Faerdinel was founded. Whether these Hin were from Faerun or some other world is unknown.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  21:46:07  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader sleyvas,

Wow, that is incredible. That posted map is from (3) years ago. It would be super cool if he was producing maps again.

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  21:48:43  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Darden,

This has been an amazingly cool scroll to read through. I must admit, the idea of adding the Five Shires there is really appealing. I'm such a canon enthusiast, but that is super compelling.

What a time to build it up too: (8) years!

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4050 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  23:02:18  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
8. “me too”-style posts are not permitted. Single posts in response to an offering of material or to say “thanks” to a poster for providing information just adds unnecessary posts to the thread. If you really feel the need to thank a poster for anything in particular, please use the Private Message facility.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2020 :  23:25:54  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Reader Darden,

quote:
8. “me too”-style posts are not permitted. Single posts in response to an offering of material or to say “thanks” to a poster for providing information just adds unnecessary posts to the thread. If you really feel the need to thank a poster for anything in particular, please use the Private Message facility.


I appreciate you bringing that to my attention. My intention was not to have my post be in the vein of a "me too" style post; however, I know you are a well intentioned, and reasonable sage. I'll reflect on that and seek advice on that post of mine.

My intention with that response, beyond the obvious compliment was to discuss and share in the experience of your Five Shires, per the "Running the Realms" sub-text, which is:
quote:
A DM's discussion area to share experiences of running Forgotten Realms campaigns and adventures and to seek advice and help from other Realms Dungeon Masters.


However, I may have erred in the context of my post, and as I said, I'll reflect on your response and seek advice.

Thank you for mentioning this!

Best regards,




Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1812 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2020 :  04:40:16  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,

quote:
The Hin make contact with the Gentle Folk, a group of pacifist elven folk who start to mentor the Halflings. Hin records do not indicate where these Hin come from; but many suspect after excavations that the Hin of The Five Shires may have been slaves belonging to Netherese Spelljamming Arcanists which fought for their freedom and forced the ship they were on to crash where Faerdinel was founded. Whether these Hin were from Faerun or some other world is unknown.


Imagine if these Hin that Great Reader was writing about were all apart of some Eldathan long game, as with the Odonti we were speaking about earlier? That would be pretty cool. What do you think?

Best regards,





Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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